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MCE on the Mac Mini Core Duo - details please!  

post #1 of 30
7/29/06 at 4:50am
Thread Starter 
Hi guys

New to the forums - before you shoot me with 'look it up on Google', I'll tell you now, I already have - it's what brought me to this site!


Here's quite a bit of background - if you don't fancy reading it, please just skip to my questions!

So, I just yesterday bought a shiny new Mac Mini Core Duo with 1gig of ram. Didn't bother with the bigger drive as I find external storage on a gigabit lan is better for me.

I should add that what started all this was an overwhelming (if not obsessional) desire to watch the BBC Planet Earth series in HD. I've seen the normal standard def broadcast in the UK, but I left for Germany just as Sky started broadcasting HD. However, fortunately for me, someone has posted the Transport Stream files on the newsgroups (10 gigs for each 60 min program!).

The bad news is it doesn't quite play on my computer (1.8 Gig pentium, 1 gig ram). But it ALMOST does (top marks to CoreAVC codec!!)

So, I read a lot of stuff on the net about getting totally smooth 1080p playback on the mini. Boy was I disappointed last night/today!

Even the files on Apple's own demo HD page, files like the BBC in 1080p, while the sounds doesn't stutter, it is blatantly obvious the Mac Mini CD is not handling it.

So, after all that background, I want to ask a few questions:

1) Do you agree that the best way for me to get this 1080i h.264 (MBAFF) working is to use MCE instead, therefore enabling me to use the CoreAVC codec (which has multiprocessor and MBAFF support)?

2) If so, can someone recommend a good USB TV package? I'm quite happy with the Elgato DVB-T stick that I got, but I think that's Mac only?

3) Anyone have any direct experience playing meaty .ts files (particularly the BBC HD ones) on the Mac Mini in MCE?

4) Will the Windows drivers from Apple support 1280x768?

Of course, I will try this out. Always best to just try it oneself, especially as I've already invested in the hardware. Regardless, any specific experiences and tips gratefully received.

I get LOADS of related results on Google, but not seen one reference to CoreAVC and Mac Mini Core Duo together...

Thanks in advance

Marcos

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post #2 of 30
7/29/06 at 11:14pm
1) While the Apple h.264 has gotten better, I think CoreAVC is still better.

3) There are a bunch, but i don't know what's available where you are (I don't use MCE for TV, since no HTPC available on the market in the US can do premium HD material yet.) Check the regular HTPC forum.

3) ts. files will play in MCE, depending on the codec you use. I use NVIDIA, which I like best of all the ones I've tried (most of the popular ones.)

4) You can use the regular Intel drivers for 945GM, which are a little newer than the Apple provided ones. Basically, you are running Windows XP, so you can update most drivers with native Windows ones as they become available. (Vista runs completely native on the Mini, since it uses EFI instead of BIOS.)

The intel drivers have limited resolutions for 16x9 plasmas and don't support custom resolutions, but you shouldn't have a problem with 1280x768.
post #3 of 30
7/30/06 at 3:45am
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the responses

I actually installed Windows XP yesterday (I won't get MCE until Monday, and I was itching to try it)

I can confirm that .ts file play back is a LOT better under the windows codecs/system. There are no sounds drop outs at all, and only occasionally does the frame rate drop.

As for HD files in more regular formats (AVI/MPG) - SILKY smooth under VLC (but for some reason Media Player struggles, I assume because it's not multiprocessor compatible?)

I am SO happy about this - it means I can download HD content from the net, and not worry about transcoding 10 or 20 gig files...

The only hitch I can see is that I plug it into my plasma, and I can't get the display right. Which would be utterly frustrating, since under OS X, the capability is there - so that hardward CAN do it.

Of course, ideally the darn Apple codecs would be good enough...

One thing - you mention the NVIDIA codec - you reckon that's better than CoreAVC? Does that do h.264 MBAFF?

Thanks

Marcos
post #4 of 30
7/30/06 at 7:02am
So here's an interesting question. If a piece of Apple hardware is running Windows (on Linux for that matter), is it actually a Mac HTPC anymore? I'm sure folks here can pitch in and answer questions on MCE, but I personally think it's the software that makes something a Mac HTPC, not the hardware.
post #5 of 30
7/30/06 at 12:56pm
Thread Starter 
Erm, I tihnk it's on the boundary. It is apple hardware, and windows software. I suppose therefore people from both camps might have experience to share.
post #6 of 30
7/30/06 at 1:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pkscout View Post

So here's an interesting question. If a piece of Apple hardware is running Windows (on Linux for that matter), is it actually a Mac HTPC anymore? I'm sure folks here can pitch in and answer questions on MCE, but I personally think it's the software that makes something a Mac HTPC, not the hardware.

I agree, the Mac forum is about the MacOS not Windows MCE. The fact that some new macs can run Windows does not make this the best place to discuss Windows drivers issues, etc. If you are running Windows on your Intel Mac then you are basically using it as a standard PC and the regular HTPC forum is your best bet for answers.
post #7 of 30
7/30/06 at 1:46pm
Thread Starter 
it never ceases to amaze me the number of times people take the time to make posts like that , but not actually help out.

This is after all Mac Mini - it stands to reason some people will have tried Windows on their Mac, but also, to be aware of it's *mac hardware* capabilities. I only asked the driver question (sorry to have been so insolent) as one kind and constructive person mentioned it.

crikey!
post #8 of 30
7/30/06 at 1:49pm
Thread Starter 
I'd also like to add that maybe my 5 or 6 hours of effort getting all this up and running, and posting back here some anecdotal results, may have been of some use to Mac Mini owners.
post #9 of 30
7/30/06 at 1:56pm
I think it is OK to post this sort of thing here. It is Apple hardware any way you slice it and some people like to experiment and post their results which only adds to the collective knowledge. I just wouldn't expect to get much help in this forum as there may not be much in the way of experience in what you are doing.

-Jerry C.
post #10 of 30
7/30/06 at 2:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcosscriven View Post

it never ceases to amaze me the number of times people take the time to make posts like that , but not actually help out.

This is after all Mac Mini - it stands to reason some people will have tried Windows on their Mac, but also, to be aware of it's *mac hardware* capabilities. I only asked the driver question (sorry to have been so insolent) as one kind and constructive person mentioned it.

crikey!

Whatever I WAS simply trying to help by suggesting the best place for your questions. The Mac running Windows is simply a Windows box. You may get some limited help here but the regular HTPC forum is where you'll find much more information on MCE. Next time I won't bother. BTW, welcome to the forum!
post #11 of 30
7/30/06 at 4:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcosscriven View Post

... The only hitch I can see is that I plug it into my plasma, and I can't get the display right. ... One thing - you mention the NVIDIA codec - you reckon that's better than CoreAVC? Does that do h.264 MBAFF?

What exactly is the problem with how the Mini displays on your plasma (and what plasma?) First, go to the Intel site and download the latest portable graphics drivers for 945GM and see if the update will solve your problem. Since the Intel drivers do not support custom resolutions, if the issue is how they read your TV's EDID, then you will have to hack the EDID, which is what I had to do to get 1280x720.

The NVIDIA codec is for MPEG2, meaning any standard DVD. It is very capable and it shows a great picture on both film and video material (the Apple codec is not great on movie stuff, but particularly bad on video material, tons of tearing.)

For H.264 I use CoreAVC.
post #12 of 30
7/31/06 at 5:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcliff View Post

Whatever I WAS simply trying to help by suggesting the best place for your questions. The Mac running Windows is simply a Windows box. You may get some limited help here but the regular HTPC forum is where you'll find much more information on MCE. Next time I won't bother. BTW, welcome to the forum!

quoted for truth.
post #13 of 30
7/31/06 at 8:13am
This forum for home theater is divided into three sub-fora: 1.(unlabelled, but actually for Windows), 2. Linux and 3. Mac. These are three operating systems, not three different forms of hardware. Logically, questions regarding programs (and drivers) that run under Windows belong in Windows, etc.

If people want to run Windows on their Macs, then, fine, ask (and answer) those questions in the Windows forum, where they belong. Where do the people who own Dell or Gateway computers ask their questions?

And, although no one asked, I'll answer any how: if certain people keep complaining about Mac software and install Windows on their Mac, where is the incentive for developers to improve their Mac software? Personally, I am much happier with both the hardware and software on my Mac Mini than I was on my Windows XP Shittle. Now, to just get rid of the POS Elgato crap...
post #14 of 30
7/31/06 at 10:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Further View Post

...And, although no one asked, I'll answer any how: if certain people keep complaining about Mac software and install Windows on their Mac, where is the incentive for developers to improve their Mac software?...

It's ironic, that the same crowd, which answers every post expressing desire for bringing the Mac HTPC experience up to date, with shouts that "nobody needs a "front-end" and "we don't need no remote," is now concerned that developers might not have an incentive to develop HTPC apps for the Mac. Really, take a look at all the posts from the same vociferous handful of people claiming that the Mac side is all happy with Apple's offerings and they don't need anything else.

While it can be argued that this question may be appropriate for the general HTPC forum, it does concern a Mac. Also, the HTPC forum has the equivalent handful of geezers who meet every question involving Mac hardware with similar pointless shouts of "my Shuttle is so much better and cheaper" and "go to the Mac forum."

In addition, some of the issues with the Mini are narrow, because of the use of the onboard Intel Mobile Graphics chipset, and Intel Mac users may be better equipped to answer them.

The bottom line is, the ardent Mac supporters should be happy that people are buying Apple hardware (Apple makes MOST of its money from hardware) and should try to be helpful, if they can.
post #15 of 30
7/31/06 at 11:22am
I guess it's picking at nits, but unlike the Linux sub-forum, this one is titled Mac (hardware) and not OS-X (operating system). I agree with Ryan (for a change), that due to the limitations of Boot Camp drivers, etc I'd rather see Windows on Mac issues here. Keep in mind some of us here are Microsoft professionals and have some experience with HTPC on PCs, if not OS-X yet.
post #16 of 30
7/31/06 at 11:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan1 View Post

It's ironic, that the same crowd, which answers every post expressing desire for bringing the Mac HTPC experience up to date, with shouts that "nobody needs a "front-end" and "we don't need no remote," is now concerned that developers might not have an incentive to develop HTPC apps for the Mac. Really, take a look at all the posts from the same vociferous handful of people claiming that the Mac side is all happy with Apple's offerings and they don't need anything else.

I find it extra ironic that you make the fictional quote "nobody needs a front-end", when you are the only one here saying "everybody needs a front end"! (I'm referring to your ridiculous "death of the Mac htpc" thread.) Apparently you also don't understand that my statement was directed at people like you, not people like me -- because, unlike you, I have not felt the need to install Windows on my Mac. The irony is that you whine and moan about the lack of good software, then install Windows and expect Mac developers to fill your requests anyhow.


Quote:


In addition, some of the issues with the Mini are narrow, because of the use of the onboard Intel Mobile Graphics chipset, and Intel Mac users may be better equipped to answer them.

Yes, very true, but what does that have to do with running Windows?

Quote:


The bottom line is, the ardent Mac supporters should be happy that people are buying Apple hardware (Apple makes MOST of its money from hardware) and should try to be helpful, if they can.

For a change, I agree with you, however, I would say that if you are trying to be helpful, support Mac developers instead of installing Windows and running MCE, which is precisely what you have done!
post #17 of 30
7/31/06 at 12:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Further View Post

...The irony is that you whine and moan about the lack of good software, then install Windows and expect Mac developers to fill your requests anyhow....

Hm, I have actually forked over $30 for MediaCentral, even though I have no intention to use it, since it has a way to go before it fits my needs.

Which is probably a better incentive for developers than posting stuff like "just wait for Apple" and "there is no market for front-ends."


Quote:
Originally Posted by Further View Post

...Yes, very true, but what does that have to do with running Windows?...

It has to do with the fact that the Mini is using Intel's Mobile Graphics chip, which is rarely used or discussed in the regular HTPC forum (other than to disparage those with Mac Minis.) The Intel drivers for Windows are actually worse than their drivers for OS X, at least as they apply to plasma sets, and do not provide necessary resolutions for a number of those. Since the Intel Mac Mini owners are more likely to run into these issues, than the general population of HTPC users who utilize ATIs and NVIDIAs, they may be also better equipped to suggest solutions to newcomers.
post #18 of 30
7/31/06 at 12:40pm
Just a though:

To avoid flame-throwing, it may be a good idea to add a sticky thread for FAQ and tips for Intel Macs running Windows HTPC apps through Boot Camp.

There are a number of posts here asking these questions and some of the solutions to common issues, like lacking resolutions, or the internal Mini speaker always being on, may be useful to new Mac Mini owners.
post #19 of 30
7/31/06 at 4:01pm
I also see no problem with talking of MCE running on a Mini in this forum. My god, we average at best, four new threads a day here? If your not running MCE on your Mini, or have no interest in doing so, that's fine. However, those of us that do would like to help as well as learn from others who use this combination.

I too, would like to eliminate Windows. But for front ends, home theater wants/needs, and my personal experience, MCE on a Mini is simply the best.....for now.
post #20 of 30
8/1/06 at 1:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan1 View Post

Hm, I have actually forked over $30 for MediaCentral, even though I have no intention to use it, since it has a way to go before it fits my needs.

Which is probably a better incentive for developers than posting stuff like "just wait for Apple" and "there is no market for front-ends."

It is clear to those of us who spend most of our time here that you are obsessed with a front end for an HTPC. You are not alone, but you are also not close to being in the majority.

You have been called here, several times, a "troll". That is because of your behaviour -- such as your "HTPC Option Galore" thread.

You know that many of the readers of this forum are Windows users (such as yourself?) perhaps frustrated with Windows, who are investigating the possibility of switching to a Mac. With your whining and disparaging comments about the Mac, what do they think? No, the Mac is worse than Windows! So, less Mac users, less motivation for developers. VoilÃ*!

Quote:


It has to do with the fact that the Mini is using Intel's Mobile Graphics chip, which is rarely used or discussed in the regular HTPC forum (other than to disparage those with Mac Minis.) The Intel drivers for Windows are actually worse than their drivers for OS X, at least as they apply to plasma sets, and do not provide necessary resolutions for a number of those. Since the Intel Mac Mini owners are more likely to run into these issues, than the general population of HTPC users who utilize ATIs and NVIDIAs, they may be also better equipped to suggest solutions to newcomers.

This fails to respond to my point that hardware issues have nothing to do with running Windows. Why would Windows users come to the Mac forum if they have problems with the Intel chip in their Dell (or whatever) and, as you point out, since the Intel drivers for Mac are better than for Windows, how does this help them?
post #21 of 30
8/1/06 at 2:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Further View Post

... you are obsessed with a front end for an HTPC. You are not alone, but you are also not close to being in the majority. You have been called here, ..., a "troll"

If you have nothing helpful or constructive to contribute to this thread, please refrain from making comments.
post #22 of 30
8/1/06 at 6:03am
No, I will NOT refrain from making comments! And if you wish to avoid criticism, I strongly suggest you learn common sense and civil behaviour.
post #23 of 30
8/1/06 at 12:30pm
Folks, everybody take a breath. This is a good way to get a thread locked.
post #24 of 30
2/27/07 at 6:28pm
I'd just like to pitch in my hat and say that as a devoted Mac geek with a budding interest in HTPC, I found this thread extremely helpful. I now realize that Apple's HT technology is somewhat less mature than the windows side, but a Mac mini would afford me the opportunity to experiment(and hedge my bets) with my OS/platform of choice and the option to run MCE with boot camp. Nice. (Also the HTPC forum is big and scary)
post #25 of 30
2/27/07 at 10:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Further View Post

This forum for home theater is divided into three sub-fora: 1.(unlabelled, but actually for Windows), 2. Linux and 3. Mac. These are three operating systems, not three different forms of hardware. Logically, questions regarding programs (and drivers) that run under Windows belong in Windows, etc.

If people want to run Windows on their Macs, then, fine, ask (and answer) those questions in the Windows forum, where they belong. Where do the people who own Dell or Gateway computers ask their questions?

And, although no one asked, I'll answer any how: if certain people keep complaining about Mac software and install Windows on their Mac, where is the incentive for developers to improve their Mac software? Personally, I am much happier with both the hardware and software on my Mac Mini than I was on my Windows XP Shittle. Now, to just get rid of the POS Elgato crap...

Why not practice what you preach? You have a post entitled BT goes legit. BT is a PC based software only. So start by policing yourself. That being said I will make an effort not to post anything that is not Mac specific to this forum, as many of you seem overly sensitive to the subject.
post #26 of 30
2/28/07 at 1:42am
For a start its Apple hardware which makes it a MAC if i started asking questions on turning a hackintosh in to a htpc i would not expect answers here as it is not by definition a mac.

But havivg been a PC and windows engineer for many years like others here i have made the jump into the Mac world im enjoying it but i made this jump at a time when windoze would run on the mac platform yes i have installed bootcamp and for want of a better word i am swinging both ways but remember apple supplied us with bootcamp they have sanctioned the use of windows on there hardware.

After reading this thread i am beginning to see why there are not so many posts in the mac sub forum its not that macs arnt better they are its the attitude

I AS AN MAC USER AND BOOTCAMP USER WOULD LIKE TO ASK THE MODERATORS FOR A NEW SUB FORUM A MACDOZE FORUM as it apears that the mac owners dont want us here and dont wish to assist people making full use of Apple Hardware
post #27 of 30
2/28/07 at 1:57am
Since someone just dredged this old post up
Quote:
Originally Posted by Further View Post

if certain people keep complaining about Mac software and install Windows on their Mac, where is the incentive for developers to improve their Mac software?

I'll suggest an answer, too: potential sales, since their words and actions prove that an unserved market does indeed exist. (Ain't competition a bitch?)
post #28 of 30
2/28/07 at 12:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lsarver View Post

Since someone just dredged this old post up

I'll suggest an answer, too: potential sales, since their words and actions prove that an unserved market does indeed exist. (Ain't competition a bitch?)

And oh boy haven't sales gone up just lately because there was an untapped market no one really knows why apple shifted to the intel platform but it has improved sales best thing steveo has pulled off in his mild state of ceo

But if you go back through this topic and all the other ones were mac users are pushing away bootcamp users they probably only have old non intel machines and are just plain jealous that we can shift either way and get the best user friendlyness on the best looking hardware as i said up a mac is a mac because of the hardware and also because of the software its like a marriage but in this case if you throw in a mistress ie windows this is a relationship that continues. osx is now my preferred surfing and email system but without a doubt for the htpc backing up dvds windoze is the stronger platform and at times makes better use of the hardware

And at the end of the day all of these manufacturers developers and spambots are all trying to get as much of our hard earned cash as possible. Maybe we should try to be a little nicer to each other and stop throwing out old toys of of the pram. We are all trying to get the same results HTPC Nirvana

Hell apple sells a mac now to mr A and mr A thinks hell heres bootcamp i will throw out that bootlegged copy of windoze and buy my own new copy that i wont share with anyone cos i purchased it Company X and Z win cos my new macs to nice to run bootlegged stuff on

we are all marks the question is what is the funfair going to throw at us to get our two dollars worth of pocket change.

Enjoy and im off out for a curry but maybe i should not talk about that cos this is the MAC forum maybe you only eat chinese
post #29 of 30
3/1/07 at 1:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by visualbyte View Post

Enjoy and im off out for a curry but maybe i should not talk about that cos this is the MAC forum maybe you only eat chinese


Nice stream-of-consciousness! YES!
post #30 of 30
3/1/07 at 7:38am
Thread closed.
Please read sticky at top.

Thank You!
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