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Cambridge SoundWorks HT setups - Page 7

post #181 of 391
I would be doing it to make room for a larger screen. I like the T500s but just thought the MC500 may do better if the sub portion of the towers wasnt really being used anyways.
post #182 of 391
I guess the only way to answer that would be to audition mc500 in place of one of the channels. Isn't the t500 thinner then the Mc500? About the sub in your t500, if you're receiver has a crossover setting in it you should use it. I only have my left and right channel set to 80Hz and above, the sub takes over at 80Hz and below. On the t500s, the sub will still be used because of the internal crossover, but they won't interfere with your external subs.

Hmm... I'm not sure if this helps, but I don't know. I suppose, there is no answer to your question, but I guess if the change helps with your setup, then it may be a better choice.

I like your looks great. I just got stands for my 305s I'll get some pics soon.
post #183 of 391
Hi - I was hoping to get some help from some of you folks knowledgeable about older CSWorks speakers.

I have had their Ensemble 2 system (two satelites paired with a non-powered sub) for over 12 years and have been very happy with it. I'm not an audophile but this system has treated me well over the years considering its price point.

Unfortunately, one of the woofers in the sub just went.

A few years back, my brother gave me a BassCube 12 (powered sub) that I never used as my 10 year old receiver was only a ProLogic model and didn't have the .1 output for a powered sub and wasn't sure about how this would integrate with the Ensemble 2 system.

So, rather than try to get the Ensemble 2 sub repaired, I figured it's time to upgrade to a new receiver and incorporate the BassCube 12 into my system. To this end I just purchased the Okyo HT-RC 160 receiver.

Question:

I downloaded the BassCube 12 owners manual and it stated the following:
"The BassCube 12 is intended to supplement, not replace the separate subwoofers supplied with these systems. Do not disconnect your Ensemble woofers when using the BassCube subwoofer."

Why can't I run the BassCube 12 using the sub output on the Onko with the Ensemble 2 satelites as my front left/right speaker? Is it possible that there is a gap in the frequencies covered by the Ensemble satelites and BassCube 12.


Sorry for the long winded post.

Any help would be appreciated,

Greg
post #184 of 391
"Why can't I run the BassCube 12 using the sub output on the Onko with the Ensemble 2 satelites as my front left/right speaker? Is it possible that there is a gap in the frequencies covered by the Ensemble satelites and BassCube 12."

That's right, there is. The Ensemble satellites have an internal high pass crossover, which cuts off the low frequency response. They would need to be crossed quite high, around 150hz I believe. Try it and see how you like it, just keep increasing the receiver crossover until it sounds good. You could also wire the Basscube to the speaker outputs, and use it's own crossover, which may go higher than your receiver does. Be sure to locate the sub up by your satellites, so the high crossover doesn't lead to bass localization problems.
post #185 of 391
It may have something to do with impedance too....The Ensemble subs were run directly in parallel with the satellites. Running the sats alone might be too high in impedance and not draw enough power from your amp.
post #186 of 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregN View Post


Any help would be appreciated,

Greg

Greg,
CSW has been running some great sales. Why not replace the Ensembles with MC155s or MC305s. That will close up the frequency gap.
post #187 of 391
Floridapoolboy, boulderdaschhi, and Skismuggs - thanks for the feedback.

"Try it and see how you like it, just keep increasing the receiver crossover until it sounds good. You could also wire the Basscube to the speaker outputs, and use it's own crossover, which may go higher than your receiver does."

Floridpoolboy - As I stated above, I've kind of been living in the stone age and I am a little intimidated at this point with my new receiver - I'm slowly reading the manual and trying to comprehend all of the material.

So, I'd like to try you're approach of "increasing the receiver crossover" but don't know how to go about doing that. Can you get me going in the right direction?

Thanks,
Greg
post #188 of 391
Somewhere in the speaker setup menu your receiver will have a provision for setting the speakers as large or small. When set to small the menu will display the crossover frequency. Most set this to 80hz, but you can increase it if your receiver allows it. Read the manual, and try to increase the crossover frequency in your receiver until the satellites and sub blend and sound good.
post #189 of 391
I am considering upgrading my system since my Ensemble 2 sub has died and purchasing some new speakers. I was wondering if the Ensemble 2 satelites would be suitable to use as rear surround speakers; or am I back to the problem with them having cross-overs in them and not being able to reproduce the full frequency range????

Thanks,
Greg
post #190 of 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregN View Post

I am considering upgrading my system since my Ensemble 2 sub has died and purchasing some new speakers. I was wondering if the Ensemble 2 satelites would be suitable to use as rear surround speakers; or am I back to the problem with them having cross-overs in them and not being able to reproduce the full frequency range????

Thanks,
Greg

Considering that only a small percentage of 5.1 usually goes to the surrounds, I don't think it will be a problem. My surrounds don't go down to 80hz either.
post #191 of 391
As most people have already stated, the passive sub is used to reproduce all of the bass directed to that channel. I always kept my passive subs when using Ensemble III and IV Speakers when using an external sub.

From your new receiver you'll need to set the front speakers to "Small" and set the crossover to 150Hz at least. This will direct all bass to the sub.

However, someone posted that the External sub has High Level inputs on it. In this setup the Bass Cube would likely replace the passive subs. This way you wouldn't need to .1 output and you'll need to set the fronts to Large to ensure all the bass goes to front channels and not the .1 output.

I just purchased MC305s to replace my Ensemble IIIs and wow they sound great. This is the most expensive option for you, but might be the cleanest in terms of wiring and setup.

Hmmm a lot of options. I hope all works out for you. :^)
post #192 of 391
I read up on your system. You should run the Audyssey room calibrations firsts and see how is sounds after completion. Then go to page 67 of your manual. There you will see how to adjust the crossover for your speakers. I believe you should set the Front to 150Hz, but see what sounds best to you.

Your receiver has a lot of options, I can see how it can be confusing, but you'll get the hang of it. Good luck! Post some pictures when your setup is complete!! :^)
post #193 of 391
JamHandMan - Thanks for the advice and feedback, I most definately will give it a try.

To clarify one point:

"However, someone posted that the External sub has High Level inputs on it. In this setup the Bass Cube would likely replace the passive subs. This way you wouldn't need to .1 output and you'll need to set the fronts to Large to ensure all the bass goes to front channels and not the .1 output."

To try the above, am I still using the .1 sub out from the receiver to the BassCube with a an RCA sub cable? Are you suggesting using speaking wire to connect receiver to sub?

Thanks,
Greg
post #194 of 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregN View Post


To try the above, am I still using the .1 sub out from the receiver to the BassCube with a an RCA sub cable? Are you suggesting using speaking wire to connect receiver to sub?

Thanks,
Greg

Yes, you are going to use the Amplified outputs from the Receiver. In this setup, I would set the Front to 'Full Range' on the receiver and not connect the passive subs. Try with just the bass cube 12 and the satellites and see how it sounds. If it sounds like the mid bass rang is missing, then you will need to incorporate the passive subs.

See page 3 from the Bass Cube 12 manual for help.
http://www.cambridgesoundworks.com/p...ls/bc10_12.pdf
post #195 of 391
I have 7 MC 305's in a DSX wide configuration (5.1+2) hooked to my 707, with a Klipsch Sub-12 (until I get a VTF3). When I did my research everyone basically recommended staying away from CSW subs, but the speakers are amazing.

All 7 of my speakers cross over at 80hz and my sub is set to 90 with the lpf on the sub turned as high as it can go. After running audyssey and tweaking the system so the sub was at 0.0db (like 1/8th volume, a little less really) it was (and still is) amazing.

CSW doesn't get much play here, less now since Henry Kloss is out of the picture, but his designs were awesome and he knew what he was doing. Subs were not his strong suit, so you're better off upgrading to something else if you can.

I saw their black friday sale with the MC305's at 35% off, might want to watch for it if you're serious about upgrading.

This is a little off topic, but I thought it might help anyone looking to upgrade.

Good luck.
post #196 of 391
Quote:


CSW doesn't get much play here, less now since Henry Kloss is out of the picture, but his designs were awesome and he knew what he was doing. Subs were not his strong suit, so you're better off upgrading to something else if you can.

Actually, the original Powered Subwoofer (Kloss design) as well as the two upper end Newton subs (P500 and P1000) are pretty well regarded. I have heard the latter two and like them very much.
post #197 of 391
Yeah, but you can't find them anywhere, and compared to a HSU for less money you may get more performance.

If they still made them new, THEN we could talk business. What they offer now is a joke - thanks to creative labs.
post #198 of 391
Yeah. The P205 is average at best and I've had tons of problems with it. I've finally got one that works so I'm trying to enjoy it for a while, but it could end up on Audiogon soon.
post #199 of 391
Yeah, I picked up the last of the P1005 subs sold almost a year ago. I love it, but I don't have much to compare to. See my pics. I'm going to upload a pic of the subs Woofer shortly.

I find it weird that the p205 is having issues, I thought it was of similar design to the p1005... I guess not. :^(
post #200 of 391
Hi, hopefully someone knows this information because CSW/Hi-Fi.com no longer has the info. I have [an mostly original Movieworks 5.1 speaker system. I am seeking the frequency response and crossover frequencies for these speakers in order to calibrate the speakers using an SPL meter. I have a new HK AVR 2600 and don't quite trust the frequencies that the EZ Set EQ came up with. I had to adjust everything including the speaker distances manually. They are:

Movie Works 5.1 LF, RF
Center Stage Ctr
The Surround 5.1 LR, RR
BassCube 8 (pre 8S) This I bought separately to replace the passive sub that came with an Ensemble IV 5.1 system I had years ago.

The HK setup the speakers with the following crossovers. The Fronts 150Hz, the Center (Large but I changed it to 150Hz to match the fronts), the Surrounds 40Hz. From what I understand the sub is set at 100Hz by the receiver automatically but you can select the size of the driver which is 8in..

I called CSW and they could not find specific info for anything but the Center Stage speaker because they are all discontinued. What they told me was this:

Fronts 100Hz-20Khz
Center 58Hz-20Khz
Sub (BassCube 8S) 39Hz-200Hz

What's the real deal with these speakers? Thanks in advance.
post #201 of 391
Wow, I wish I could help you out. :^( Wouldn't you want the Crossover to be the same for all speakers to create a balanced sound? I would set the cross over for all fronts to the lowest note the Movie Works can reproduce. Since how large the Movie Works are I suspect they use a driver similar to the Ensemble IV, which can go down to around 100Hz that the MovieWorks should be able to do that. I suspect setting all of your front speakers to a crossover of 100Hz may work out and setting the sub to 100Hz so it can take over.

I'm not sure about the surrounds, but since they have a smaller driver, I suspect they go down to 150 or 200Hz.

If you want the center channel to reproduce more bass then you can set it's crossover lower, but I think they are good settings. Even if the crossover are not 100% you should still be able to calibrate with SPL Meter. No?

I'm sure you knew all of this that I mentioned and that you were looking for something specific, but I don't have anything. I just wanted to add my two cents. :^)
post #202 of 391
Actually, you crossover each pair of speakers based on capability, although many do not go under 80Hz as per THX recommendations and the fact that the powered sub can pick up the lower freqs with little effort to the AVR. Having surrounds that only go down to 150Hz doesn't really effect the balance as those tend to get lower volume anyway.
My Onkyo 606 set the MC305 center at 100Hz, the MC305 LR at 120Hz and the S200 surrounds at 150hz and it all seems very well balanced. I believe the center got set a little lower as its location is between shelves under the TV, and that may have boosted its bass.
post #203 of 391
ahhh, I just thought you would want all the bass to sound the same. Having different crossovers for the front speakers will cause the bass of a sound that travels across the stage to sound different no? This was just something I thought, no science here.

With my pioneer sc-05, the receiver set my crossover to 80Hz for all of my MC305s. It sounds great to me, really rich and full sound. I believe these speakers can go down to 80Hz easily, but anything after that is questionable. Oh I also have a pretty small sound stage and this may lead to more bass being heard from the speakers, then if they were further away.

I guess in the end it is really what sounds good to you. :^)
post #204 of 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiSmuggs View Post

Actually, you crossover each pair of speakers based on capability, although many do not go under 80Hz as per THX recommendations and the fact that the powered sub can pick up the lower freqs with little effort to the AVR. Having surrounds that only go down to 150Hz doesn't really effect the balance as those tend to get lower volume anyway.
My Onkyo 606 set the MC305 center at 100Hz, the MC305 LR at 120Hz and the S200 surrounds at 150hz and it all seems very well balanced. I believe the center got set a little lower as its location is between shelves under the TV, and that may have boosted its bass.

In light of your results then perhaps EZ Set EQ was not too far off with the crossovers. I changed the center channel to 100Hz last night and everything sounds pretty balanced but I will still go through the process with the SPL to see what the results come out to be.
post #205 of 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamHandMan View Post

ahhh, I just thought you would want all the bass to sound the same. Having different crossovers for the front speakers will cause the bass of a sound that travels across the stage to sound different no? This was just something I thought, no science here.

With my pioneer sc-05, the receiver set my crossover to 80Hz for all of my MC305s. It sounds great to me, really rich and full sound. I believe these speakers can go down to 80Hz easily, but anything after that is questionable. Oh I also have a pretty small sound stage and this may lead to more bass being heard from the speakers, then if they were further away.

I guess in the end it is really what sounds good to you. :^)

My concern was having too much base coming from the center channel. Speaker placement is a bit difficult in our tiny loft living room. I really don't want to be able to localize the bass. That's what I'm trying to fix now. I had the sub near the entertainment center for a long time but I had to move it whenever I needed to open the bottom drawer of the cabinet on the side that the sub was on. Could not localize the bass when it was in that spot. now the sub is to my right in line with the surrounds. sometimes I can tell it is less than 10ft. away.
post #206 of 391
I have another question and would appreciate knowing what others have done because I keep going back and forth on it. Some say to set your center channel to large if it is actually a large speaker. The Center Stage is and that is how EZ Set EQ detected it. What is the consensus. Leave it at large or set the crossover to that of a smaller speaker and leave all of the low end to the sub?
post #207 of 391
The THX specs have speaker crossovers at 80Hz (assuming they are big enough to go that low). Setting the center to large would allow all bass to go there, but most speakers have a built-in cutoff to protect themselves. I don't see any reason to change to large. Large is appropriate if there is no sub woofer and letting the powered sub handle the LFE saves the AVR some work.
post #208 of 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by sucram65 View Post

In light of your results then perhaps EZ Set EQ was not too far off with the crossovers. I changed the center channel to 100Hz last night and everything sounds pretty balanced but I will still go through the process with the SPL to see what the results come out to be.

My previous LCR speakers were the MC200s and an MC300 center. My 606 set those at 100 for the LR and 80 for the center. Apparently the MC305 metal cone does not sound as low to the 606, but CSW still rates them at 80Hz.
Lowering the crossover to 80Hz on the fronts didn't sound any different to my ears, so I went back to the Audyssey settings, but bumped the center 2-3db to boost the dialog.
post #209 of 391
I've got MC305's all the way around (all 7 speakers) and when I ran audyssey on my 707 it put the center down to 70hz and the other speakers all at 80. I'm assuming it's because my center is oriented horizontally and the others are all wall or ceiling mounted and vertical, or something.

I ran audyssey this way 5 different times getting my sub cailbrated correctly, and all 5 times the center was always lower than the rest of the speakers.

I just set them all at 80, made sure the distances were correct, and called it a day. Sounds beautiful to me. I did set my sub to 90hz in the receiver so i would avoid any holes or lack of volume from the frequencies below 100hz, just in case CSW and audyssey were too optimistic.
post #210 of 391
Yeah the MC305 sound great. :^)
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