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The official AVS Guide to HD DVD Authoring. - Page 58

post #1711 of 3176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Roper View Post

Drag it on the timeline, then right-click on it, view properties. Are you sure it's 1440 x 1080?

Another thing...see the red button at the lower right hand corner? Click on that, then click on Detail. If the resolution is anything other than 1440x1080 *and* the video bar is blue (100% stream copy), then it's not HDV resolution. Not saying that's the case, just mentioning the possibility.

No, it's 1280x720 from the camera.

VideoRedo won't open it - gives an error about elementary streams. This is the version you can download from their main page.
post #1712 of 3176
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickforrest View Post

No, it's 1280x720 from the camera.

VideoRedo won't open it - gives an error about elementary streams. This is the version you can download from their main page.

VideoRedo is not necessary for the HD-DVD authoring workflow when Womble is used. The problem is that Ulead MF won't author 720p streams to HD-DVD.

So let's go through the steps, bearing in mind that Womble works best when it's not rendering video. It will do that, but Vegas, TMPGEnc, Canopus, Main Concept, Nero are better at rendering. And that's what needs to happen to get your 720p playable on HD-DVD.

Back in a few minutes.
post #1713 of 3176
Tom -

Thanks for all your help. I guess I'm not understanding why re-rendering has to happen to get to HD-DVD. HD-DVD supports 720p, doesn't it?

I have Nero, by the way.

Again, thanks for your help. Sorry, but I have to run. I have an 8-hour test tomorrow (arggh). I'll come back tomorrow night (or possibly at lunch).

Rick
post #1714 of 3176
To make your 720p compatible with Ulead's MF authoring tool for HD-DVD, 720p is going to have to be upscaled to 1920x1080. That means it has to be rendered, unfortunately. It's up to you whether you want Womble to do this for you, or you use one of the aforementioned better encoders. Best to render it to 1920x1080 before importing it into Womble. You're call. Womble can do it for you if you want to save time.


Womble steps:

1.) Click on the cassette tape
2.) On file format, choose the dropdown selection for MPEG-2 Program
3.) Click the video tab
4.) Click the expert button
5.) Algorithm - choose Smart Fast. This re-encodes only a frame or two adjacent to the frame accurate edit points, so you preserve quality and speed.
6.) Accept the other defaults. PAR 9/16 is another way of stating the pixel aspect ratio, 16x9. HDV 1080i is actually 1440x1080, not 1920x1080, so it's necessary to select 9/16 PAR. But for 1280x720, you would choose 1.000 square sample. Those are probably the defaults anyway.
7.) Click the Audio tab, choose your AC-3 5.1 audio there.
8.) Click the Monitor tab, choose Detail to view the parameters. If all good, click Start.
post #1715 of 3176
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickforrest View Post

Tom -

Thanks for all your help. I guess I'm not understanding why re-rendering has to happen to get to HD-DVD. HD-DVD supports 720p, doesn't it?

I have Nero, by the way.

Again, thanks for your help. Sorry, but I have to run. I have an 8-hour test tomorrow (arggh). I'll come back tomorrow night (or possibly at lunch).

Rick

HD-DVD supports 720p output yes, but not 720p input.
Ulead MF needs your Mpeg-2 Program file to be one of the following:

- 1920 x 1080i/p
- 1440 x 1080i/p
post #1716 of 3176
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickforrest View Post

No, it's 1280x720 from the camera.

VideoRedo won't open it - gives an error about elementary streams. This is the version you can download from their main page.

Aiptek Go-HD based on Ambarella H264 codec and record to *.mov container.
Womble don't support H264 - only mpeg2 editing.

Possible you can author HD-DVD 1280x720p30 use DVD Studio Pro (Mac)
w/o recompression original stream.
post #1717 of 3176
Quote:
Originally Posted by vsv View Post

Aiptek Go-HD based on Ambarella H264 codec and record to *.mov container.
Womble don't support H264 - only mpeg2 editing.

Possible you can author HD-DVD 1280x720p30 use DVD Studio Pro (Mac)
w/o recompression original stream.

Good catch. And that explains his problem with 320x240. Womble clip properties correctly displays the file as 1280x720, but edits it as mpeg1 320x240...not good.

So the only thing Womble can offer is to encode the AC3 5.1 audio after he's first used something else to get the file into mpeg2.

But if Ulead Movie Factory is the end game, still got to get it to 1440 or 1920 x1080 because no HD-DVD input support for 720p.
post #1718 of 3176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Roper View Post

But if Ulead Movie Factory is the end game, still got to get it to 1440 or 1920 x1080 because no HD-DVD input support for 720p.

Uh, we've been using Ulead to author 720p for a while now. You just have to "trick" it into thinking it's a 1080i file (using HDPatch). Read the first post in this thread...
post #1719 of 3176
Quote:
Originally Posted by texmex View Post

Uh, we've been using Ulead to author 720p for a while now. You just have to "trick" it into thinking it's a 1080i file (using HDPatch). Read the first post in this thread...

Okay!
post #1720 of 3176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Roper View Post

HD-DVD supports 720p output yes, but not 720p input.
Ulead MF needs your Mpeg-2 Program file to be one of the following:

- 1920 x 1080i/p
- 1440 x 1080i/p

Ulead will also process a 1280x1080i MPEG2 file without re-encoding (as mentioned in the guide at the beginning of the thread).
post #1721 of 3176
Tom Roper
I'm sorry, Tom, my mistake... I've download latest update for womble DVD wizard(04-30-07) and able import *mov sample recorded by Aiptek Go-HD.
Property (clip information)
Video-----------
Format:H.264
Size: 1280x720
Frame rate: 30 frames/sec
Audio----------
Format: AAC
Channel: Stereo
Bit Rate: 0 Kbps
Sample rate: 48.0 KHz

Possible edit on timeline and export to *mov but i can not find option how to make editing without reencoding in same way as mpeg2.
post #1722 of 3176
Quote:
Originally Posted by vsv View Post

Tom Roper
I'm sorry, Tom, my mistake... I've download latest update for womble DVD wizard(04-30-07) and able import *mov sample recorded by Aiptek Go-HD.
Property (clip information)
Video-----------
Format:H.264
Size: 1280x720
Frame rate: 30 frames/sec
Audio----------
Format: AAC
Channel: Stereo
Bit Rate: 0 Kbps
Sample rate: 48.0 KHz

Possible edit on timeline and export to *mov but i can not find option how to make editing without reencoding in same way as mpeg2.

Edit again: sorry vsv - looks like you were only commenting on the fact that womble doesnt "smart-render" h.264. The response below is more relevent to the rickforrest discussion above...

I'm not sure I understand exactly what you mean in that last sentence, but you do understand that H.264 and mpeg2 are different codecs right (edit: sorry, of course you do - you pointed it out in the first place)? Now, technically HD-DVD supports H.264**, but there currently is not a consumer level tool to author H.264 HD-DVDs. The only way to get your video into Ulead right now is to transcode your stream from H.264 to mpeg2. This process will result in a larger file size and you will likely lose some video quality - and it might take a long time. You will also need to make sure that the audio is transcoded to ac3. Once you've transcoded from H.264/aac to mpeg2/ac3, you should be able to use Ulead to author an HD-DVD. You may need to use the HDPatch trick (see the guide in the first post of this thread) if you keep the resolution at 1280x720p (which I would recommend).

** Even when an H.264 authoring tool is available, we can't be sure that streams like yours will be HD-DVD compliant (and therefore not require a re-encode). Hopefully the camcorder engineers were kind enough to use an H.264 profile that is HD-DVD compliant, but we won't know until the tools arrive.
post #1723 of 3176
Quote:
Originally Posted by texmex View Post

Edit again: sorry vsv - looks like you were only commenting on the fact that womble doesnt "smart-render" h.264. The response below is more relevent to the rickforrest discussion above...

I'm not sure I understand exactly what you mean in that last sentence, but you do understand that H.264 and mpeg2 are different codecs right (edit: sorry, of course you do - you pointed it out in the first place)? Now, technically HD-DVD supports H.264**, but there currently is not a consumer level tool to author H.264 HD-DVDs. The only way to get your video into Ulead right now is to transcode your stream from H.264 to mpeg2. This process will result in a larger file size and you will likely lose some video quality - and it might take a long time. You will also need to make sure that the audio is transcoded to ac3. Once you've transcoded from H.264/aac to mpeg2/ac3, you should be able to use Ulead to author an HD-DVD. You may need to use the HDPatch trick (see the guide in the first post of this thread) if you keep the resolution at 1280x720p (which I would recommend).

** Even when an H.264 authoring tool is available, we can't be sure that streams like yours will be HD-DVD compliant (and therefore not require a re-encode). Hopefully the camcorder engineers were kind enough to use an H.264 profile that is HD-DVD compliant, but we won't know until the tools arrive.

Ditto what he said
post #1724 of 3176
Using the methods here to make a red laser HD-DVD, what happens if this disk is placed into a Blueray player? Will it play at all? Without the menus, etc?
post #1725 of 3176
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejolson View Post

Using the methods here to make a red laser HD-DVD, what happens if this disk is placed into a Blueray player? Will it play at all? Without the menus, etc?

HD-DVD, among other things, is a way of laying out files and the associated menus, and which video files are associated with "chapters". Microsoft and the dvd-hd assoc. have put a lot of time into detailing this structure and what/how things are done. It's almost a scripting/programming language/std onto itself.

So if you burn a red-laser HD-DVD, the files can be read on blu ray players, but they won't understand the structure any of these files and you won't get any video.

Sorry.
post #1726 of 3176
This is also what I thought since the file layout of Blueray BD9 and 3X HD-DVD are very different. Is it true that the red laser DVDs produced by AVCHD camcorders can only be viewed in Blueray players and not, for example, in the Toshiba HD-A2?

In the world of computers, Macintosh/Windows/Unix, it is possible to create a DVD in such a way that each type of computer sees a different directory structure with some files in common and others which are different. I thought there might be a similar way to merge Blueray BD9 with 3X HD-DVD layouts to create a high definition red laser DVD that plays on both Blueray and HD-DVD players with a playback control and menus.

Am I right that if you forego the need for a playback control, then both Blueray and HD-DVD players will play AVC, VC1 and mpeg2 program streams that appear as normal files in an ISO9660 filesystem?
post #1727 of 3176
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejolson View Post

Is it true that the red laser DVDs produced by AVCHD camcorders can only be viewed in Blueray players...

In fact these red laser AVCHD disks can NOT even be viewed by standalone BD players. (yes, I tested it myself a year ago) Only a PC like device such as PS3 can read the disk as data files without any BD authoring done. Since vast majority of BD players out there are PS3s people are not even aware of the fact that Sony's own HD video out of these AVCHD cams won't even play in BD players(except PS3 which doesn't require authoring of any video data).
post #1728 of 3176
I am really hoping Toshiba or someone releases some HD-DVD PC recorder drives fast. I am tired of making Dual layer DVD coasters and could use a disk with 15 or 30 gigs (if the 30 gig dual layer will burn consistantly). BR is just to advanced in terms of authoring and AVCHD is a bad joke IMO in terms of picture quality. I don't understand why Sony does what every Matsushita wants and caved. HDV is fine.
post #1729 of 3176
Quote:


I am really hoping Toshiba or someone releases some HD-DVD PC recorder drives fast. I am tired of making Dual layer DVD coasters and could use a disk with 15 or 30 gigs (if the 30 gig dual layer will burn consistantly). BR is just to advanced in terms of authoring and AVCHD is a bad joke IMO in terms of picture quality. I don't understand why Sony does what every Matsushita wants and caved. HDV is fine.

I hope so too. It seems they are coming quite slowly. Toshibia has fired up the PR engine for the soon-to-arrive laptop(s) that should have hd-dvd writers. Hopefully we will be able to purchase the drives separate from laptops soon

http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/04/t...r-for-laptops/
post #1730 of 3176
Even if PC HD-DVD burners become available they'll still be quite expensive for a good while. Recordable media is outrageously expensive and will stay that way until the PC burners saturate enough of the market to drive the costs down. I've been burning HD movies to DVD-R discs for a while now and most movies only require 2-3 discs. If someone were to introduce a HD-DVD changer then we'd be in business. I'd rather be able to do it all on one disc, but for now I'll make do with what's available.
post #1731 of 3176
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain_video View Post

Even if PC HD-DVD burners become available they'll still be quite expensive for a good while. Recordable media is outrageously expensive and will stay that way until the PC burners saturate enough of the market to drive the costs down. I've been burning HD movies to DVD-R discs for a while now and most movies only require 2-3 discs. If someone were to introduce a HD-DVD changer then we'd be in business. I'd rather be able to do it all on one disc, but for now I'll make do with what's available.

I agree. The problem is I am not taking recorded TV content and making copies of them. I doing home HDV movie authoring with my Canon HV-10 camcorder. The files are really big. If I add effects, menu systems or music, it adds even more to the files and they are even bigger. Most of my stuff is under 4 gig but I just got back from a camping trip and I have 20 gigs worth of footage. The HD-DVD would be very handy.

Please hurry Toshiba!
post #1732 of 3176
I have been trying to convert some of my D-VHS tapes to DVDs, with mixed results.

I have been using CapDVHS to get my files from tape to the PC. I have tried the demo of VideoRedo, HDTV2MPG2, and ProjectX for converting and editing the .TS files to MPG2. For authoring I have been using the Ulead Movie Factory 6 demo, to make .ISO files. To burn the .ISO files to disks I have been using ImgBurn.

My problem seems to be in converting the .TS files to .MPG2. So far I have only gotten VideoRedo to work on two short clips (of Bob Seger) from the Tonight Show and The Late Show, where I have been able to take its file and use it in Ulead and burn a good disk. Every larger file I have worked on VideoRedo stops converting the file, and I only get part of the program. I don't get a error message or anything. I have tried to take some of these files into Ulead and gotten errors when Ulead trys to make a .ISO image. I have been able to convert two different half hour long PBS programs that are in 720p using HDTV2MPG2, and they turned out great! I also have a hour long PBS program that I think I converted with ProjectX (maybe HDTV2MPG2, I don't remember for sure) and it worked fine.

My files from my local NBC and CBS stations show the data stream as being 1920 x 1088i, and when I try and watch or edit these files in VideoRedo the display screen is green and white with side by side images in the display (like double vision). These same .TS files look fine, in color in both VLC and in HDTV2MPG2. My 720p files display fine in VideoRedo.

Anybody have any ideas?
post #1733 of 3176
When you do larger files in VRD you need to make sure the entire file is of the same video property. If your DHVS recorded shows off different channels then they may carry different resolutions and etc. VRD will choke if stream switches its properties in middle of its loading or converson.
post #1734 of 3176
All the files I have tried in VRD are single recordings where all of the file is from one station, recorded at the same time, so the video properties should be the same for the whole file.
post #1735 of 3176
You need to make sure you have the bitrate set high enough in VRD to handle the HD files. The default setting is well below the optimal value. The maximum bitrate for broadcast programming is about 19.4 Mbps so you should make sure the bitrate is set to 20 Mbps or higher. I believe it's part of the Options menu under the transport stream output settings. You should be getting an error message if VRD stops processing due to an insufficient bitrate setting (buffer underflow error?)
post #1736 of 3176
Thanks for the tips.

I did some more with VRD last night and found out that the files I was getting are 10 minutes long. So I split my video into 10 minutes or less .MPG files. Ulead didn't like them as 1088i files, so I ran the "patch" on them, and Ulead was re-encoding them when I left this morning. I hope to see tonight how it works out.
post #1737 of 3176
Has anyone used the Movie Magix Pro 12 solution for authoring 720p (and preferably 24p) projects? I have an HD short film project edited in Avid Xpress Pro HD (1280x720), and then converted to mpeg2 with TMPGEnc.

I've used the MF6+ demo in attempts to create an HD-DVD. It looks pretty good on my TV (on Toshiba A2), but haven't had any luck getting the sound to play. That combined with the clumsiness of the workflow for 720p projects with MF6 has me looking for an alternative. Might Movie Magix be that solution?
post #1738 of 3176
Quote:
Originally Posted by texmex View Post

- Most commercial HD-DVDs are encoded in VC-1 (some in AVC, only a handful in MPEG2). The methods in this thread only work for MPEG2 encoded material.

Will any HD-DVD players play AVCHD files burned onto DVDs? For example, if you shoot AVCHD home movies or little league or something, can you burn that onto a DVD (as much as will fit) and play that disc on HD-DVD?

MPEG2 just takes up too much space..
post #1739 of 3176
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob3121 View Post

Until now I was reencoding the orignal .ts (demuxed to elementary w/ videoredo) with TMPGEnc Xpress 4. This process took a while (4+ hours) but usually just let it run over night. That solved the problems w/ the stutter in playback.

When I played the .ts in PowerDVD every movement (characters objects etc) you could see the interlace lines. This would always cause problems if I didn't reencode with a progressive setting (TMPGEnc). The final result was a MPEG2 file with no interlace so no lines in PowerDVD and flawless playback on Xbox 360 HDDVD.

After reading Ron's post I sent the same video that stuttered on my Xbox 360 through restream and the result (played on PowerDVD) still showed the interlace lines w/ the movement but I burned it anyway.

The end result was a perfect playback on Xbox 360 HDDVD so I orignally thought that the Xbox 360 could not handle the deinterlacing (so i reencoded every video... argh) but it seems that it does not like the Hybrid Video. I'll keep testing but thanks for the info! hope this helps!

Rob, do you run it through TMPG BEFORE you run it thru VideoRedo or after? Or not at all? I tried using TMPG 4 once and skipping Vidredo and it worked. I tried it again a few days later and got a non-compliant coaster. I wasn't keeping very good notes on my early experiments.
post #1740 of 3176
Hey all,

I posted this on another thread but was pointed in this direction to hopefully find someone to help,...I have read through the entire thread (ok, I confess I skipped a couple of pages here and there) and I didnt find anything that would help me in my task I want to complete.

I have a Canon HV20 and I would like to burn my 1080 clips to a DVD-R but maintain its full quality. I realize I would be constrained to a smaller amount of time to show whatever I put on the DVD-R since it would in fact be higher quality (hence less video time). I am completely fine with that. I know there is a way for it to be done on the PC, (as I have read through this huge thread) but I have been searching everywhere and can't find anything that mentions how to do it for a mac.

So basically,...
how can I burn my HD movie clips to a DVD-R using my mac that, when played on a HD-DVD player will be shown at its true 1080i quality?

If you can chime in on this, I will be *very* grateful and would appricate it very much!

extra info:
I have a powerbook G4, latest OS X, iMovie, iDVD, and access to Final Cut Pro on my friends powerbook G4 (same setup).
If in fact this is possble, the HD-DVD player I am aiming to play the disc through would be an Xbox 360 HD-DVD player, if that makes any difference.
Thanks in advance....
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