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The official AVS Guide to HD DVD Authoring. - Page 8

post #211 of 3176
I see that Ulead MF5+ is officially out.

It appears to add some BD capability and other stuff not applicable to HD DVD authoring.

Has anyone had a chance to check it out, and are there any added benefits for HD DVD?
post #212 of 3176
Thanks for putting this together Joseph. I've had a bunch of .ts movies sitting on an extra hardrive until I got around to either building an HTPC or buying a snazzio or some such player, but now I don't have to thanks to your guide. I tried it out with Sponge Bob The Movie, and it worked without a hitch. The results are outstanding, and now I'm going to go through my whole collection.
post #213 of 3176
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capek View Post

Thanks for putting this together Joseph. I've had a bunch of .ts movies sitting on an extra hardrive until I got around to either building an HTPC or buying a snazzio or some such player, but now I don't have to thanks to your guide. I tried it out with Sponge Bob The Movie, and it worked without a hitch. The results are outstanding, and now I'm going to go through my whole collection.

I'm glad the thread has been helpful to so many people. It's the only reason I bought an HD DVD player at this stage of the game. The contributions to the thread come from all over the world, from some really talented and enthusiastic people. It's fun to be a part of it by helping out with the guide.
post #214 of 3176
Joe, could you put a large, red warning in your first post telling people not to discuss or post pictures of copyrighted materials?

I am probably being anal about this, but it seems to me that people have to stop mentioning the copyrighted movies they're copying to disks. The people who own the copyrights are not going to be happy if they think that all we're doing is copying their material to disks.

With the introduction of this HD DVD Player, Toshiba has suddenly eliminated the need to have a computer in the TV room in order to Timeshift HD programs. I have a HD DVR, but it fills up too fast. The techniques we're discussing allow me to record shows on my PC and easily watch them when I've the time. This is an invaluable ability of the A1, and I don't want it to suddenly disappear, and I fear it will disappear if people continue talk about the movies they're burning.

Hopefully the posts that do mention copyright material will be deleted quickly by the moderators.
post #215 of 3176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyrax View Post

I am probably being anal about this

People have been legally timeshifting HD for at least 7 years. There is nothing illegal about archiving HD. We've been doing it legally with d-vhs and/or harddrives since around '98 or '99. That's kind of the whole point of 5C-- it tells us what we're allowed to archive and how many generations we may keep for private home use. There is nothing different between recording on an HD DVR and an HD DVD as far as the law is concerned. It's how those recording were obtained that matters (i.e. buying pirated material on eBay).

When people start mentioning selling those recordings here, then action should be taken.
post #216 of 3176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan_R View Post

People have been legally timeshifting HD for at least 7 years. ... When people start mentioning selling those recordings here, then action should be taken.

Agreed; I'm not saying we shouldn't be allowed to timeshift, or we need to be sneaky in any way. We have a right to timeshift and there is no need to be shy when talking about it.

However, it should be mentioned that timeshifting and archiving are two different things. All I'm suggesting is that we keep a low profile so it doesn't become an issue.
post #217 of 3176
Thread Starter 
As Nathan says, there's nothing illegal about what people are doing here. If it were, the thread wouldn't be on AVS. Obviously, Hollywood would prefer that all such capabilities be stripped from us. They've fought tooth and nail to do just that. That's why I was so excited about this process. It gives us a small window to do what is still legal and what we have had a right to do since the mid 80s. I'm sure they ("The Powers That Be") are aware of it and are jockeying to find a way to stamp it out. They probably will one day and that's very sad.
post #218 of 3176
I have to say I'm with Hyrax here. I'm in touch with movie industry people on a daily basis, and you wouldn't believe the amount of paranoia and hysteria that's running rampant over there. I suggest people refrain from posting names and pics of movies they've transferred to HD DVD.
post #219 of 3176
Thread Starter 
Point taken, gentlemen. I suppose there's not much to be gained by throwing gasoline on the fire.
post #220 of 3176
This is absolutely ridiculous. There is no semantic difference between archiving and timeshifting. Are you saving a program so you can watch it later? It matters not on what media you save the program-- beit VHS, DVR, harddrive, DVD, HD DVD, or Blu-ray. Archiving is timeshifting is archiving period. I understand that many people in this thread have never transferred data from a DVR or HD tuner card before, but just because a new authoring tool comes along does not it's suddenly quasi-legal or we're doing anything wrong. People, is NO different than transferring programming to a DVHS tape.

I guess if this "Shhh, don't mention what you're recorded or the cops will come after us" stance is what we're going to take, perhaps we should shut down the whole HDTV Recorders and HDTV Programming sections we have-- afterall, program titles have been mentioned there from time to time (read: almost every thread) and we've been archiving them to D-VHS for almost ten years.

Thanks for all the great info in the guide-- we know how to make HD DVDs, but what else is there is left to discuss now? This archiving method is nothing but a stop grap until the standalone HD DVD recorders (like the HD-R1) and pc HD DVD recorders hit the market this year. What do you think those devices are meant to do? Are we not going to talk about our experiences transferring programs to them?

Thanks again for the info in the guide-- my DVR appreciates the unloading. But I'm done with this thread. Really, there's nothing else to discuss here other than gotchas/errors in moving HD from one source to another. To think otherwise is quite naive.
post #221 of 3176
Ok, I have a question about the significance of "x of x video frames found with errors" message when I run movie through mpeg2repair. Same goes for the "audio frames" message. If there is even one frame with an error, should I always use the "Repair Errors" function in M2R? Is there a point at which too many of these errors will make a noticable impact on the viewing experience? What do the more experienced people do when they come across these errors in a movie they're reauthoring?
post #222 of 3176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan_R View Post

This is absolutely ridiculous.

It absolutely is not. You obviously have no idea how some folks in the industry think. Unfortunately I do.

Quote:


There is no semantic difference between archiving and timeshifting. (...) People, is NO different than transferring programming to a DVHS tape.

The point, which I really can't stress enough, is that we know this - they do not. Do not underestimate the levels of fear and paranoia studio executives are capable of.

Quote:


To think otherwise is quite naive.

Want to hear what's really naive? To think that studio execs won't care about authoring HD DVDs from transport streams, when they learn about it.

There's nothing wrong about discussing the matter on a general level. There's no reason why we couldn't talk about authoring HD DVDs. I only recommend we don't mention what sort of content we are putting on those discs. Having said that, the cat's out of the bag already...
post #223 of 3176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capek View Post

Ok, I have a question about the significance of "x of x video frames found with errors" message when I run movie through mpeg2repair. Same goes for the "audio frames" message. If there is even one frame with an error, should I always use the "Repair Errors" function in M2R? Is there a point at which too many of these errors will make a noticable impact on the viewing experience? What do the more experienced people do when they come across these errors in a movie they're reauthoring?

From personal experience, you want to look mostly at the size / duration of the errors. ie. If the errors only account for small blocks of data, or brief moments of time, then you might find that the repair process adds new issues (or more importantly, the actual logged errors are not at all noticable on viewing).

Generally I do not use the Repair option of Mpeg2Repair. Someone suggested that you could "log and repair" at the same time (if you have sufficient disc space), but then, how much time do you want to spend determining whether the "repaired" or unrepaired .TS is the best to use for he HD DVD? You would probably have to burn both to discs and view both, to determine which gives the best result (if indeed you could detect any difference in most cases)!

Personally, I simply "log only" via Mpeg2Repair, and unless there are significant timestamp gaps (in which case I run through quickstream fix), I just proceed with the HD DVD as is!

So far this has produced a visually error free viewing experience in almost every HD DVD disc I have mastered, with the exception of only 1 or 2 discs that had significantly worse errors in the Mpeg stream.

Don't forget that the HD-A1 is a pretty forgiving MPEG decoder (in fact in my experience it handles Mpeg errors as well as (perhaps better) than my HTPC. This is probably due to the fact that the HD-A1 is of course based on PC technology, but with a dedicated (and robust) OS / application software configuration.

[OT]
PS: To you other guys, please let's keep this thread on track, and not degrade it into an argument over what is / isn't legal. If you have concerns, please keep your discussion to PM, or PM a moderator to review what is acceptable.
[/OT]
post #224 of 3176
Thanks a lot KK, that's kind of the answer I was hoping to receive. One of the coolest things about authoring these poor mans HD-DVDs is how fast and easy it is. The thought of tieing up my main PC for hours error checking and repairing .ts files had dampered my enthusiasm a bit. I'll go ahead and proceed with the movies I've been getting video frame error messages with and see how things go.

btw what is the accepted opinion on what is a "significant" timestream gap? In other words how high can that number be and still produce a normal viewing, and how high can it be when it absolutely must be put through quickstream fix? Is there a consensus on this yet?
post #225 of 3176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capek View Post

btw what is the accepted opinion on what is a "significant" timestream gap? In other words how high can that number be and still produce a normal viewing, and how high can it be when it absolutely must be put through quickstream fix? Is there a consensus on this yet?

My experience is that the HD-A1 honors the timestamps in the mpeg stream (noted earlier in this thread).

eg. If you had a .TS file with a 180 second timestamp gap, your HD-A1 would appear to freeze on playback for 3 minutes (with a frozen image on-screen). If you didn't wait for 3 minutes, you would think the player had actually frozen on you. If you do wait, playback continues after the timestamp gap period.

Due to this, the only effect of a timestamp gap, is a pause in playback for the duration of the gap. How long a duration is noticable, also depends on the affected scene. eg. If it is during a scene transition, a gap of 10ths of a second may not even be noticable. But if it is during a panning scene, then any timestamp gap would be an issue.

Fortunately these timestamp gaps are usually the result of the tools used to edit advertising breaks, therefore they usually occur at a scene transition.

To cut a long story short, I generally don't worry about any total reported timestamp gaps of less than 0.1 second (ie. 0.0x seconds). If timestamp gap is > 0.1 seconds I run through Quickstream fix.

So far this has worked fine for me. At the end of the day you just want to be able to enjoy a glitch free disc recording, with no lipsync issues etc. We can strive for perfection, however, if on a rare occasion you master a disc that has an extremely brief (almost unnoticable) glitch, is that really going to destroy your enjoyment?
post #226 of 3176
Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolKiwi View Post

My experience is that the HD-A1 honors the timestamps in the mpeg stream (noted earlier in this thread).

eg. If you had a .TS file with a 180 second timestamp gap, your HD-A1 would appear to freeze on playback for 3 minutes (with a frozen image on-screen). If you didn't wait for 3 minutes, you would think the player had actually frozen on you. If you do wait, playback continues after the timestamp gap period.

Due to this, the only effect of a timestamp gap, is a pause in playback for the duration of the gap. How long a duration is noticable, also depends on the affected scene. eg. If it is during a scene transition, a gap of 10ths of a second may not even be noticable. But if it is during a panning scene, then any timestamp gap would be an issue.

Fortunately these timestamp gaps are usually the result of the tools used to edit advertising breaks, therefore they usually occur at a scene transition.

To cut a long story short, I generally don't worry about any total reported timestamp gaps of less than 0.1 second (ie. 0.0x seconds). If timestamp gap is > 0.1 seconds I run through Quickstream fix.

Ah, ok that's very good to know. I was thinking that maybe a timestop gap might cause the audio to get out of sync with the video, so that even a small gap would need to be fixed. If it's just a pause for a fraction of a second it's no big deal at all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolKiwi View Post

So far this has worked fine for me. At the end of the day you just want to be able to enjoy a glitch free disc recording, with no lipsync issues etc. We can strive for perfection, however, if on a rare occasion you master a disc that has an extremely brief (almost unnoticable) glitch, is that really going to destroy your enjoyment?

Nope, not at all. Thanks for your help.
post #227 of 3176
Works perfectly! Thank you sir!
post #228 of 3176
Big news for everyone here that uses Ulead MF5 and VS10 here. I came into work this morning to the news that our company (COREL Corperation) has acquired Intervideo!!!!

Read about it here:


http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satelli...=1047022985433


So we are the new owners of MF5 and VS10! I'm in support services so hopefully I can be your go between for any issues or suggestions in the future!!

Marc.
post #229 of 3176
Nice one. Sooo... H.264 support for MF/VS, when?
post #230 of 3176
Quote:
Originally Posted by pteittinen View Post

Nice one. Sooo... H.264 support for MF/VS, when?

It's one of the first things I'm going to bring up!


Marc.
post #231 of 3176
Marc, you might also mention MPEG2 @ 720p support, so we wouldn't need Texmex's marvellous application. Oh, and support for transport streams, killing another unnecessary step

Oh, oh (I'm on a roll here!), could you find out why MF/VS take forever 'tasting' some MPEG2 files, but opens others (the ones processed by Womble) in a heartbeat?
post #232 of 3176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc D Carra View Post

So we are the new owners of MF5 and VS10! I'm in support services so hopefully I can be your go between for any issues or suggestions in the future!!

Marc.

Hey, Marc, can you now include in Ulead your HD DVD cover making features
post #233 of 3176
Quote:
Originally Posted by pteittinen View Post

Marc, you might also mention MPEG2 @ 720p support, so we wouldn't need Texmex's marvellous application. Oh, and support for transport streams, killing another unnecessary step

Oh, oh (I'm on a roll here!), could you find out why MF/VS take forever 'tasting' some MPEG2 files, but opens others (the ones processed by Womble) in a heartbeat?

The current MF/VS support team will just LOVE me!

Marc.
post #234 of 3176
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc D Carra View Post

The current MF/VS support team will just LOVE me!

Marc.

And you might just love US when we get through with our feature requests. Great news, Marc.
post #235 of 3176
Quote:
Originally Posted by pteittinen View Post

Marc, you might also mention MPEG2 @ 720p support, so we wouldn't need Texmex's marvellous application.

To start with a seemingly simple issue (just to see how you go), I would strongly second this as an initial request.

I couldn't understand when I downloaded the wonderful *new* MF5+ (plus), that they still hadn't even added the additional HD DVD supported resolutions. Presumably these are just templates or entries in a data table somewhere?

For some unknown reason MF5 seems to only support 1920x1080, 1440x1080, and the (undocumented?) 1280x1080 resolutions? What gives?

If you get some traction with the MF5 team on this simple request, then you could go on to deliver the master request list!
post #236 of 3176
Is there a new link to obtain HDPatch? The one on the main page is no good. Thanks!
post #237 of 3176
Quote:
Originally Posted by brywalker View Post

Is there a new link to obtain HDPatch? The one on the main page is no good. Thanks!

Try right-clicking and choosing "Save As...". For some reason, left-clicking doesn't seem to work.
post #238 of 3176
Guys, am I missing something or is there just one menu template available for HD DVD in the standard MF? I don't see any template downloads offered on their website either. I can customize the background image with my own JPG, but MF won't let me fit more than 4 menu items on a page, nor allow me to git rid of that curvy swoosh overlay over the preview clip. Anyone know of a way to further customize the menu than what I'm seeing?

Looks like MF+ offers many menu templates. See attached.
LL
post #239 of 3176
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brajesh View Post

Guys, am I missing something or is there just one menu template available for HD DVD in the standard MF? I don't see any template downloads offered on their website either. I can customize the background image with my own JPG, but MF won't let me fit more than 4 menu items on a page, nor allow me to git rid of that curvy swoosh overlay over the preview clip. Anyone know of a way to further customize the menu than what I'm seeing?

Looks like MF+ offers many menu templates. See attached.

There are several in the full retail version of MF. When I ordered the program, they sent a link to a download with extra content. It was separate from the main program download. If you didn't get the extra link, contact them. Many of the elements are customizable, although the selection/change process is not the most intuitive I've ever seen. Sometimes you have to left click to select the item, then right click to bring up the customization options for that particular item. In other words, just right clicking an item without left clicking to select it first might not bring up the menu. Kinda wonky.
post #240 of 3176
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by texmex View Post

Try right-clicking and choosing "Save As...". For some reason, left-clicking doesn't seem to work.

Thanks for the reminder, texmex. I made a note of this just above the files in the guide.
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