FYI: New URC policy on MX series....no updates... - Page 2  

Here is something that is being overlooked as well...directly from URC's website on the MX-700

That last bit about the programming wizard to lead the first time programmer step by step...that screams consumer programable right from the horses mouth.

Just thought I would throw that into the mix :(

Goodbye URC. Hello Harmony.

Not what I said at all. Thank you for attempting to put words in my mouth.

Every product on the market is given a MSRP (Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price), and often manufacturers will stipulate a MAP (Minimun Advertised Price) to their authorized dealers. These are rules and contracts with the dealers of the product to control the cost and distribution of the product. If a dealer violates these rules, the manufacturer can cancel that dealer's account or take other actions to cure the problem.

Some consumers are ignorant enough to think that they are somehow entitled to get large discounts on everything, or that they are exempt from paying MSRP for anything. They have no justification to deserve such. These people obviously have no respect or awareness of what owning and operating a business is.

I am all for saving money when I can. But bashing a quality company that makes and has made quality products with quality serivice and support, simply because they made a business decision that will increase their likelihood of making larger profits, and more closely controlling the distribution and cost of their products and services, is assanine.

Now you're putting words in someone's mouth. Who are you to tell us that we have no respect or awareness for running a business. Many who run legitimate businesses sell at discounted rates. URC's decision here screws customers who unknowingly purchased products from 'legitimate' businesses. Go ahead tell me Buy.com, Amazon.com and Costco are illegitimate. It sounds to me like you are one of those people that don't like competition, either that or you're a lacky of URC.

By the way I was considering the purchase of an MX-850 from an authorized dealer (at a very resonable price). URC's policy change will change that. I'll go with a more consumer friendly company.

I bought a TX-1000 2 weeks ago from an authorized dealer, ABT Electronics. I programmed the remote myself with the Editor software and really enjoy it. I am in the I.T. industry and found it very easy to program so I don't need any "custom installer". However, after this policy change I am returning the TX-1000 and will never buy a URC product again. I refuse to be held hostage by any company.

This is an incredibly shortsighted move by URC. Pissing off the enthusiast segment of the market is never a smart move, and will likely result in fewer sales for the company overall.

I've got two URC remotes in my house at the moment, both of which were purchased from "Non-Authorized" retailers. I looked at the alternative and basically determined that "Authorized" retailers want to charge me an extra couple hundred bucks for a 1 year warranty. That's gouging in my book and it's a sad state of affairs when a company can endorse that type of consumer bilking for the "privilege" of supporting its own products.

I won't be buying a URC product again.

Did Sony buy out URC? Seems like the kind of blunder they would make.

Whats a good alternative to the MX-950? I need RF and one handed operation.

We have the following in our houses.

Two MX-700
One MX-200 sidekick
Two MX-500's

Four of them purchased from an authorised retailer, MX-200 second hand from ebay. I'm pretty disgusted at URC tactics (pretty obvious method of having a "boys club" of installers with charge extortionate configuration prices) and also to keep the prices at retail. This just stifles competition (which is bad for them) I have aquired the new version of the software from an alternative source, even though I shouldn't have to as I'm entitled, however that involves contacting the retailer and getting them to check their accounts for my purchase (I have thrown away/deleted all documents since I've owned them for more than one year)

I just hope I see the "genius's" who thought of this in the dole queue, they deserve it.

I just got back from returning the TX-1000 I bought 2 weeks ago from an Authorized dealer, ABT Electronics. Too bad, so sad URC. I'll never buy another one of your products again.

URC determines who is an Authorized dealer....not I. I dont know if the places you mentioned are URC Authorized or not.

If you were already going to buy your remote from an authorized dealer, then what do you have to worry about?

So if someone gives me a copy of Windows XP, and I dont know anything about computers or software licenses and the like, and I go to update it and I cant, should I blame Microsoft? Or should I blame the person who gave me the software? Its the same principle.

This entertaining reaction puzzles me. If this had been the policy all along, everyone who wanted a MX remote would still have one and be happy with it. Maybe if you look at it like this: URC has been over generous in the past and is now tightening its reigns a bit. So, people before got a bonus of having access to updatable software...woohoo....bonus has expired. :)

I dont see how having updatable software is really a big issue. Its not like your remote will magically quit working one day. It will continue to work and your existing software will continue to work perfectly fine. Its not like they will add some amazing function that will allow the consumer to use their remote to make popcorn or shoot down space aliens.

If there is anyone out there who programs their own remote, and who doesnt already have the software, or lost the software, you better get a copy fast. :)

Your analogy of Windows not updating is totally wrong. To be more accurate, I would say similar to all Microsoft OEM licenses being rejected, only full retail serial numbers are allowed to receive updates.

Or when Steam decided to bar 10,000 serial numbers as those copies of the game were sold at "unauthorised" stores ie mail order. Loads of people were ******* off when they were booted out. There was a solution to that.

A uproar would occur, and rightly so. Methinks you're a dealer with your staunch support of URC. The updates aren't to do with IR codes, more bug fixes. I have used several revisions of their sofware and some are buggy, from refusing to import a device to quitting with no warning.

As an owner/user of the MX3000, my 2c is that regardless of where I bought the device, URC sold it to someone. They made their money and should be obligated to support it. All URC is going to accomplish with this move is piss off their ultimate customer base. It's a dumb business move when even those that buy the units from BB/Magnolia are not grandfathered in, except by "special arrangements" & calls to URC pleading "your case". Way to go, URC! :rolleyes:

For any gloating C/I's and/or dealers, enjoy your boasting and gloating and arrogant attitudes towards end users while you can, because ultimately WE control your ability to make money, not URC! :mad:

I understand your needs to force URC to control its distribution, but your beef is with them not the customer. Your cocky "told-u-so" attitudes are not going to win you any customers that read these forums or get advice from friends that do. So u have won a battle, but maybe you'll lose the war and pay for it with lost business! I truly hope that happens to the arrogant ones. I've read thru many of the bitch sessions on remotecentral. com. The auth. dealers typically are very helpful & take the high ground (they are smart businessmen). But frankly, I think a lot of the C/I attitude there sucks. It's pretty disgusting to read thru some of the posts. No one forced you to sell URC products. If you don't like their distribution problems, sell something else, like RTI. If u came to my house to quote me an installation with the attititude I've read in some posts here or at remotecentral, you'd be shown the door!

That's all I have to say. If I was buying a new remote today, I would be shopping around. It's unfortunate that the products are excellent, and it's the constant bickering & ******** about business practices that is souring everyone. It's lose-lose for everyone: URC, the C/I's, and end-users.

Shame on URC for allowing it to get to this point and shame on everyone involved in the sales and marketing of these products for the mess.

ss9001

I'm often asked by friends and family"what universal remote should I buy".

My first question to them is,do you prefer hard buttons or touch screen.If the answer is hard buttons,I recommend the MX line.

As of this move from URC,I'll not be recommending them to anyone.Enough said.

This was a response to someone wondering if Magnolia was an authorized dealer. As far as I know, they are and certain locations can be found listed in URC's dealer locator results. I don't think they keep that updated though so all the new free standing Magnolias and Mini-Mags in various BB stores aren't listed.

Jeff

Thanks for the correction. I guess their list is just out of date.

I just returned from my authorized URC Tweeter store attempting to get the secret website address and password so I could download the latest software updates. Tweeter has no idea of what Universal Remote has done and is stating, and thus could not help me.

Now, I purchased this MX 850 last week from Tweeter (authorized dealer) for full MSRP and I now want to use live update for any new software updates before I proceed to program my remote. Univeral Remotes will not supply the updates, and, Tweeter doesn't have clue on what to do.

What is an honest, end-user consumer now supposed to do? I have two othe URC remotes that I have programmed in the past and I also programmed these remotes for customers when I was a Tweeter employee. So, I know how to use the software.

While I still have the legacy software on my laptop for my MX 850s, what do I do about future component upgrades and reworking my macros, as I plan on some equipment upgrades over the next 6 months - URC can't help me and Tweeter can't help me! Once again, my remotes were purchased from authorized dealers, since I totally support doing business in this manner.

This current situation goes beyond being unethical. It borders on illegal, i.e. authorized dealers selling you URC remotes at full retail and telling customers how easy it is to program your remote by simply going out to the URC site and downloading the software. But, at the same time, stating that if you do not want to do the programming yourself, they have installers who can do it for you.

To say that this change in URC policy is completely FUBAR is an understatement.

I don't really think URC will lose any business of value. The majority of URC remotes are sold as OEM or through custom installers. If a few web shoppers get pissed off at URC and decide to buy a different brand, so be it!

What URC is gaining through their new policy is dealer loyalty. Quality oriented dealers prefer to promote products from manufacturers who protect the interests of their best customers, their dealers.

The last thing a dealer has time for, is to educate a potential customer on a product, demonstrate the product, and then lose the sale to an unauthorized web retailer because their price is a few bucks lower. And who's there to help the customer in the end, the web retailer? I think NOT! It's even more frustrating when it is a product (like remotes) which requires a great deal of after the sale care and yields relatively low profit margins to begin with.

Quality dealers will not promote product lines for very long if their expense, time and effort is constantly thwarted by cut rate discounters on the web. Customer service oriented manufacturers like URC realize this, and are taking the appropriate actions to protect their most valuable asset, their #1 customers, their dealers.

Dealers profit margins should be protected, because of the investment they have made in a product line. The monetary investment is only part of the picture. There is also a great investment in time and effort on the dealers part to be an invaluable asset to his clients. A dealer is an invaluable asset to his clients when he becomes an expert at any product he sells and then makes this hard earned knowledge and expertise readily available to his clients.

DIYer's usually require a great deal of after the sale care, which is more often than not provided by a legitimate dealer. So tell me, why isn't a dealer entitled to a profit in return for all that we bring to the table?

If you really don't believe we are entitled to a fair profit for all that we do for you, then go ahead and shop online. If this is how you think, in the end, you deserve what you get!

Do you really think the web retailer will be there for you if you don't understand how to use your item or if you have a problem with it? The web retailer probably doesn't have the slightest clue regarding your product and is incapable of helping you. And that's assuming you can get anyone on the phone in the first place.

If you think your hard working local dealer is trying to screw you because he doesn't offer you the lowest price, you'll be really screwed when you have a product you've purchased online and it's rendered useless (probably due to operator error) and there's nobody to help you.

EDIT:

DON,

As for companies like Tweeter and the other BIG retailers, do you really expect to receive any assistance from anyone who is competent when you buy from them?

But I do see your point in that they are an "authorized dealer" and they are a total joke. It's a real shame and I'm sorry to hear you are now in this position. You should complain to URC about the poor choice they've made in appointing this retailer as their "authorized dealer".

I agree with the above post for the most part.

My point is that this will ONLY hurt the DIY guys who program their own remotes AND purchased their remotes from unauthorized dealers and wont be able to legally acquire the future software updates. If you want to program your own remote, buy it at an authorized dealer and save the money on the programming. If you want someone to program it for you, buy it anywhere you want and save some money on the hardware, and pay an authorized dealer program it for you. Seems simple to me.

The DIYers obviously have the choice to switch to a different remote. I might too, if I was in a similar situation. URC has likely researched and factored this relatively small loss into their overall business plan and structured accordingly.

The people in the above category are a rather small percentage of URC Custom Professional line owners. And as such, URC has decided to make a move that will help them and their dealer network continue to sell and program a large number or remotes with a lot less worry of losing business to unauthorized dealers. A perfectly logical and legtimate business model.

There are different points of view to this depending on what side of the fence you are on. Luckily for URC and those on their side of the fence, we are the overwhelming majority.

"There are different points of view to this depending on what side of the fence you are on. Luckily for URC and those on their side of the fence, we are the overwhelming majority."

That is highly debatable.The amount of URC remotes sold online is huge.Dont believe that? start a poll here on AVS and tally the results.
How much this cuts into URC's revenue,will be a wait and see game.

URC's decision reflects poorly on the entire line because of problems like this one. I don't disagree with their decision to change the policy, but I certainly would have thought it better to do one where it's from this point forward vs. all customers ever. Setting that aside though, URC signed on Tweeter which has long since been essentially a big box retailer and very different from most small CI shops. Magnolia, while initially much smaller, has dramatically expanded under the Best Buy buyout. The Mini Mag effort will essentially make every BB a dealer for the whole product line (I think I read somewhere that BB was pushing to have a Mini Mag in every BB by 2008).

So, this was well known while the decision was being pondered. These 2 authorized dealers alone will account for quite a few headaches. It seems like a plan of action should have been in place to account for these from the get go. Yet, I haven't seen Eric comment about folks who are in such a position. I'm not sure how an obvious problem like this wasn't addressed ahead of time. I wouldn;t be surprised to see yet another revision or addendum by Eric to cover folks like Don.

Jeff

Dealers are worthless. Clueless middlemen doing nothing but leeching off the work of others (manufacturers and customers). Custom installers, now they at least provide a service. But things like Best Buy, Tweeter, etc.? Absolute joke. You think I should feel compelled to buy a box from them for a lot more than the same box from elsewhere?

URC wants to go the RTI and UEI Nevo business model, good luck to them. But there was a reason RTI and UEI Nevo were ruled out right up front in my search for a new remote. URC is now in that same group of "not even an option". I'll not be required to take a road trip just because I want to change some button on my remote. What a joke.

The idea in the beginning was that the "Custom Professional" line of remotes would only be sold through CIs who would install and program them. The "Consumer" line was intended for the over the counter retail sales where the customer would be on his/her own for programming.

Obviously, that vision got lost somewhere along the way and people have been able to buy the "Custom" remotes anywhere and luckily, URC was nice enough to have the software freely available to those people. Something they didnt HAVE to make available, but did anyway.

This statement simply isn't true for the majority of people who post here. I've certainly never asked for assistance or support from a dealer as I don't need it. I'm perfectly capable of setting up these devices myself.
And what exactly do you do for us? The majority of users on this board set these devices up themselves. Therefore, you provide no value to us whatsoever, as your services are never utilized. Yet you act like people are taking money out of your pocket simply because they choose not to pay an unhealthy premium for support services they'll never need or use.

Bottom line, your train of thought here is heavily flawed.

Curious observations....

First and foremost, if URC is upset about "unauthorized" dealers - this is their fault. Who manufactures these items? URC. Who sells these items to the dealers? URC. If they are leaking out unauthorized sales somewhere, then it should be up to URC to nip it at their sales level, not the consumer level. The consumer, more times than not, doesn't know if the dealer they bought it at is authorized or not. This whole notion of making the consumer responsible for knowing if the item they purchased was from a dealer authorized to sell it, is non-sense. It is sort of like certain manufacturers saying that they won't cover items under warranty when it wasn't purchased from an "authorized" dealer. This is the responsibility of the manufacturer, not the purchaser.

I often wonder, in cases of warranty especially (not so much support), if a class action lawsuit is needed to snap the manufacturers back to reality. Note - I HATE lawsuits, but sometimes I think they are necessary to make manufacturers responsible to the consumer. Consumer protection is a big thing. If you don't honor your customers, you'll soon find yourself without customers at all.

Also, just how much of URC's gross sales is due to "unauthorized" sales? I think that if URC sticks to its guns with this, time will tell. I can see URC's sales going down quite a bit. I bet some of you folks really underestimate how big this might be for them.

Just like some of you guys have already mentioned, it leaves me with a sour taste in my mouth. As a result, I'll not purchase another URC remote. I guess it's Harmony from now on for me.

are you kidding me??? step outside of your castle in the sky and join the real world. Last time I checked this is a free country...

Why are you not charging for the after sale care if they didn't buy from you, or if they did & didn't pay for programming? If you are providing valuable expertise & time, charge for it. Where you can get fair profit is by charging for programming & for consulting time.

I don't understand this complaining about having to compete with unauth dealers on hardware price. Say you think fair price & profit for you on a particular remote + programming is $500. Now, maybe you quote $350 for remote + $150 for programming. If customers are complaining "hey I can get remote for $250 on ebay, why should I pay $100 extra for remote from you?", then just change your quote to: "remote, $250, programming $250". Or "remote, $350, programming $250, -$100 discount on programming for getting remote from me". You get same amount of money, for customer that can't or doesn't want to program remote, what are they going to do but shrug their shoulders & pay you what you want? If you say you can't do that because some other competitor is willing to program the remote for less, then that just means you are trying to charge more than what the free market has determined is fair, tough.

For the DIY customer who doesn't need programming, nor any support, if you are just taking down a computer web order, grabbing a box, stuffing it into a shipping box, slapping the UPS label on it, why should your "fair profit" be substantially higher than the unauthorized web retailer doing exactly the same thing? You aren't really providing any benefit here other than the warranty. (Companies not honoring warranties here is bogus too from the consumer point of view, they made profit selling the product, it's a way to generate profits dumping to grey market while dodging support costs, win-win for them).

This "authorized dealer" & MAP programs are anti-competitive practices that hurt the consumer, just like the MAP of music CD companies that they were sued for and lost on anti-trust grounds. URC can play whatever games they want to try to keep prices high, but don't expect consumers to applaud them for it. They can get away charging more because they have a better product than the competition, currently, but only to a certain extent. At some price point some large segment of the market will turn to a competitor.

It's very obvious from your posts that you are a URC lacky........

This is incredible! This has got to be the most hilarious thread I have ever set eyes on!

This is really hitting home now.....

I bought a Car battery at Costco last week and it failed yesterday, so I took it to the local battery shop to get it replaced...Costco was not open yet and I was late for work. They told me NO! they didnt sell it to me..But it was a brand they carry...OK so I go home to get a software update to see if it will reboot and get me started so I could get to work...Well guess what??....the Damn website didnt have any updates for me to load into my car battery to correct its draining problems...so now I have this dead battery with no software to update it...Now Im pissed...Oh wait I bought it at Costco..I can go there for the new battery and see if they have manufacturers software for it..I hate to have a useless battery that I cant update

Crap...Silly me..my battery doesnt have a port to update..anyway it went dead and I really dont like it...maybe I will switch brands.

Dang it...my wife just informed me that our check engine light just came on in our car....Hmmmmmm....wonder where I can buy software and test equipment to fix it..maybe the manufacurers website..then I can get equipment off of Ebay..I hope I get a warranty and support...

Do I sound as whiney and silly as the rest of you???? Call the dealer you bought it from and ask for a copy of the new software...like its going to kill you??? your remotes wont stop working...you just lost the ability to update..so get the new software and be done with it..stop bitching...You ebay buyers..ok same thing but you will have to wait a few more days for it to surface and your back up and running

Great...now the microwave is acting up..Need software for it too

Crap...its not my day.....my lawnmower just rebooted and needs a software update too, it was from sears..I hope they have software on the website

Have to run...many hours ahead looking for software for my stuff

My point exactly. Thats a very small percentage of their end users I would imagine. Otherwise, this move would not have happened this way. If they thought they would lose a substantial customer base, it wouldnt have happened.