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Official Sony 40",46" XBR2, XBR3 - Owner's Thread - Page 52

post #1531 of 3414
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWeinz View Post

No, 1080i can be 30 frames per second, but each frame is interlaced, so each single frame is displayed twice over the 60 hz refresh. The catch is that half of that frame is updated on the first pass, half the second pass ... this completes the full image. When I say 40 hz, I mean that the signal is only refreshing 30 times per second ... the TV has to have input at 60 hz at the 1920x1080 resolution. Now, I don't know if you can actually send a 30 hz signal, but that's another issue.

There's too much misinformation going around from people that just don't understand the underlying issues. That's why I preface my comments with "i think" or "i could be wrong..." This is why I started to hate what the Internet has become ... since about 2000. I would say that was the turning point where it went from difficult searching but valuable information to complete overwhelming sespool of uselessness. /rant

Woops that's what I mean actually. 1080i displays a maximum of 30fps on a 60hz display.

About the internet, it's become a little more like real life where alot of people ******** confidently.
post #1532 of 3414
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceiba View Post

Woop,s that's what I mean actually. 1080i displays a maximum of 30fps on a 60hz display.

That is not true to my knowledge.

You can output a 1080i game that is actually at 60fps ... however, it introduces some motion artifacts due to the processor attempting to de-interlace it.


This is similar to the 60fps 480i games on previous gen systems.
post #1533 of 3414
Quote:
Originally Posted by StefanGagne View Post

Some possibly good news.

I called X-Box tech support. First call, I got bounced from know-nothing rep to know-nothing rep. ("Are you trying to use Media Center?" "Is this for an original X-Box?") until I hit a guy who asked for my serial number. Fate would have it, I accidentally bumped the disconnect button on my phone. Cursing, I dialed back.

First guy I talk to on my second call? I tell him I'm getting an unsupported signal error.

"Honestly? Give it a day or two," he said. "They're aware there's some bugs in the patch and they're working on them now."

"Would it help if I tell you my TV's make and model..?"

"It's alright, they're aware of the problems. Just wait a bit and see what happens."

Well, it's a bit of lip service, but given his "Oh god, not one of THESE" calls, I'm guessing they've heard the message loud and clear. The rest is waiting game...

The question is whether the 360's A/V multi-out actually supports separate H & V synch.

If not, there is no solution if you TV does no support synch-on-green.


I'll try to do some digging to get the pin-out info.
post #1534 of 3414
http://pictures.xbox-scene.com/xbox3...xbox360VGA.gif

If this is accurate (it is for building your own VGA cable for the 360), then it appears the multi-out does have separate synchs for H & V.

In that case, MS should be able to update their dashbaord to support this.

Hopefully, they will make the setting configurable.



For anyone that cares, here is the pin-out for doing RGB:
http://pictures.xbox-scene.com/xbox3...xbox360RGB.gif
post #1535 of 3414
How could a TV this expensive not even support 1080p in the first place. I think you really pay extra for the "Sony" name othewise these would be alot less or at least have similar features compared to its competition.

Edit: Over component
post #1536 of 3414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stupac View Post

How could a TV this expensive not even support 1080p in the first place. I think you really pay extra for the "Sony" name othewise these would be alot less or at least have similar features compared to its competition.

What? It does support 1080p.
post #1537 of 3414
Sry. Over component.
post #1538 of 3414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stupac View Post

How could a TV this expensive not even support 1080p in the first place. I think you really pay extra for the "Sony" name othewise these would be alot less or at least have similar features compared to its competition.


It is a 1080p set !! I don't even own this set and I knew that.

1080p over the HDMI port. Did you do ANY investigating on this set at all before posting your comment??
post #1539 of 3414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey_Gee View Post

It is a 1080p set !! I don't even own this set and I knew that.

1080p over the HDMI port. Did you do ANY investigating on this set at all before posting your comment??

Did you see my edit? You got a little touchy there. lol
post #1540 of 3414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stupac View Post

Sry. Over component.

Very few TV's do support this since there are basically no sources that output 1080p over component.



Now that the 360 does, maybe we'll see more TV that add this feature.
post #1541 of 3414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stupac View Post

Sry. Over component.

I agree, for all the money Xbr2/3 user paid, it should include 1080p support via component. If the Samsung 1080p models can include component 1080p support, Sony doesn't have any excuses.
post #1542 of 3414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin_HT View Post

If this is accurate (it is for building your own VGA cable for the 360), then it appears the multi-out does have separate synchs for H & V.

In that case, MS should be able to update their dashbaord to support this.

Hopefully, they will make the setting configurable.

Okay, but how does this explain why every other VGA setting on the console works fine, and only 1920x1080 doesn't work? I'm not saying that's impossible, but is there a technical reason why just one setting causes sync-on-green problems and not the others?

Someone on Kotaku pointed a link to a dongle that converts away from the sync on green... check this out and let me know if it might help:

Tech widget thingydohickey
post #1543 of 3414
Quote:
Originally Posted by StefanGagne View Post

Okay, but how does this explain why every other VGA setting on the console works fine, and only 1920x1080 doesn't work? I'm not saying that's impossible, but is there a technical reason why just one setting causes sync-on-green problems and not the others?

Someone on Kotaku pointed a link to a dongle that converts away from the sync on green... check this out and let me know if it might help:

Tech widget thingydohickey

That *might* be tempting if it didn't cost $80 and require a frakking external power supply...
post #1544 of 3414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin_HT View Post

That is not true to my knowledge.

You can output a 1080i game that is actually at 60fps ... however, it introduces some motion artifacts due to the processor attempting to de-interlace it.


This is similar to the 60fps 480i games on previous gen systems.

For argument's sake, let's say that's true ... you'll be seeing half frames for every full picture ... that would still be pretty bad to look at. In fact, FPS's would be horrendous ... there shouldn't be a benefit of 60 fps vs. 30 fps in interlaced mode ... I remember I had set something up incorrectly years ago on my desktop monitor and set the output to interlaced and it was unbearable. It was amazing that you couldn't tell on a TV.
post #1545 of 3414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey_Gee View Post

The 360 does NOT upscale true 1080p content, it is a true 1080p signal. It does upscale 720p content.

Try burning a 1080p video and playing it and see if this works. I am curious

Here is a link to 720p and 1080p vids in WMV format that the 360 now plays

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/win...tshowcase.aspx


Actually those MS WMV's are actually only 1440x1080 and not true 1080p (displaying at 1920x1080). The Xbox 360 doesn't like this resolution and pillarboxes it by default (instead of stretching it which would be almost perfect). Anyone know where you can get true 1080p wmv content on the web?
post #1546 of 3414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stupac View Post

Did you see my edit? You got a little touchy there. lol

I posted before seeing your edit.

No issue and no hard feelings.

post #1547 of 3414
Quote:
Originally Posted by saeorange View Post

Actually those MS WMV's are actually only 1440x1080 and not true 1080p (displaying at 1920x1080). The Xbox 360 doesn't like this resolution and pillarboxes it by default (instead of stretching it which would be almost perfect). Anyone know where you can get true 1080p wmv content on the web?

Cool , thanks for trying. Was not sure if it was TRUE 1080p or not. If anyone does have a source for TRUE 1080p WMV's I wold also be very interested in them.


I know what you mean about 360 supported setting. I took note of them after the update (hope I can make out my hen scratch on this piece of paper)

360 OVER VGA:

640x480
848x480
1024x768
1280x720
1280x768
1280x1024
1360x768
1920x1080


360 OVER COMPONENT

480p
720p
1080i
1080p

Just incase anyone without a 360 and the HD or VGA cables were curious

Cheers
post #1548 of 3414
I just called Xbox Tech Support. After going over the issue 4 or 5 times, the guy on the other end of the line went away for 5 mins, then came back and told me I wasnt the only one with the issue. He then told me to check back with them in a few days.... HUH Anyway, it seems that they are aware of the issue.

I specifically said, this is one of the only TV's in Australia that will do 1080p, and its the only TV that will display it Nativly. So MS have stuffed up.

At the end of the day, he was just a desk jockey, but he logged the call, and he said he was going to tell his manager about it too.

So here's hoping the problem is fixed in the next day or so.
post #1549 of 3414
it's great to hear that people are calling in, this just may end up getting fixed if we all stick together and let them know that this needs taken care of
post #1550 of 3414
53 minutes 13 seconds
Remember that number, because that is how long I was on the phone with Microsoft tech support yesterday. Of course some Indian speaking woman answered, with absolutely no clue about anything tv or xbox related. Not her fault I know, so she makes me go throught he stupid steps (is your tv 1080p, is the display setting 1080p, what cable are you using, etc) until I finally lost my patience and just asked for a supervisor. I hold for 15 minutes.....yes 15 minutes.....until Alex has time to speak with me. He tries to run me throught he same things but I kill the nonsense and tell him what is happening. I just give him my tv make and model number and tell him to forward that to someone that can fix it. I was the first person to report the issue and he sent a bulletin out about it.
I would like to thank everyone that has called so far, that is the only way we can get this solved. Here is the number again for the slackers that have yet to call
1-800-469-9269
As soon as the person answers the phone just ask to speak to a supervisor so you can report an issue. Even though it might take a while to get them on the line you can save a ton of time by doing this. Just tell the operator it is a specific technical problem that needs to be reported to a supervisor. Give them your model number and tell them 1080p is not working via the vga cable.

Here is the examples of what is going on.
Sony kdl-xbr2 46 inch
XBOX 360 via vga cable


First, this is 1360x768 which is 720p
Dashboard displays fine, no issues at all

Guide comes up, everything is visable


Next is the 1920x1080 which is 1080p
This the the warning message that appears as soon as the tv receives teh 1080p signal

Here is the screwed up dashboard. As you can see the 1080p image is there but it is almost displayed as a 4:3 image.

This shot shows exactly how much of the 1080p image is being cut off of the left side.


The 1080p image is there, but it is showing only a 4:3 shot of it. You can manually scroll over to the left to see the rest of the image but it will never be in the correct widescreen 1080p format. Microsoft and Sony have exactly one week to fix this before I move along and return this tv and cancel my hd-dvd order.
post #1551 of 3414
PhantomHitman, I called that number. However, I didn't ask for the supervisor. I went through all the BS steps that the rep wanted. After a while, I just told him to document the problem, the tv model, and what I was trying to do that caused the problem. I told him to relay the problem to someone who can actually get the MS software people to fix it.


I feel like calling back and talking with the supervisor.

Oh yea, your screenshots are the exact same problem that occurs on my kdl-40xbr2.
post #1552 of 3414
Ceiba,
I would call back just to speak to the supervisor to report this issue. It wouldnt hurt at all, in fact it would be nice to see everyone calling a few times to report it. Once I get my hd-dvd player next week I will call back again and go through this once more, unfortunately
post #1553 of 3414
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantomhitman View Post

Ceiba,
I would call back just to speak to the supervisor to report this issue. It wouldnt hurt at all, in fact it would be nice to see everyone calling a few times to report it. Once I get my hd-dvd player next week I will call back again and go through this once more, unfortunately

Hopefully, they'll fix the problem within the next couple of days.
post #1554 of 3414
I had the same problem with my Mitsubishi WD-73927, which takes 1080p over VGA only.

First, it was cut off on the top and the bottom. By retrying "auto adjust", the TV was all over the map, cutting the sides and cutting the top and bottom. I could tell the whole picture was there because the missing portions were visible when I readjusted the position.

I then put in a DVD and did the TVs auto-adjust feature. The picture appeared fully on my TV with no cutoffs. It appears that my TV is able to adjust more easily to output from DVDs, for whatever reason.
post #1555 of 3414
In the XBR2/3 manual, it clearly states that you should not plug in accessories that are not recommended by the manufacturer in the safety tips.

The Xbox 360 is an accessory that is not recommended by the manufacturer.
post #1556 of 3414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emotep View Post

In the XBR2/3 manual, it clearly states that you should not plug in accessories that are not recommended by the manufacturer in the safety tips.

The Xbox 360 is an accessory that is not recommended by the manufacturer.

?????????????? I hope that is a miserable attempt at a lame joke.
post #1557 of 3414
1st post in a long while.... i have been keeping up with this issue and have found this concerning sony's 60 and 70" xbr2's (may be true for more)

in the manual, located here: http://www.sonystyle.com/intershopro.../60_70_xbr.pdf
it states a few things, like:
"This TV's PC input does not support Sync on Green or Composite Sync", also on page 19, the rear image of the tv shows this over the composite inputs say
1080i/720p/4809/480i", and "HDMI connection is necessary to view 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i and 1080p formats".

so the issue would be sony not supporting sync on green or composite sync... not the 360.
post #1558 of 3414
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashram View Post

1st post in a long while.... i have been keeping up with this issue and have found this concerning sony's 60 and 70" xbr2's (may be true for more)

in the manual, located here: http://www.sonystyle.com/intershopro.../60_70_xbr.pdf
it states a few things, like:
"This TV's PC input does not support Sync on Green or Composite Sync", also on page 19, the rear image of the tv shows this over the composite inputs say
1080i/720p/4809/480i", and "HDMI connection is necessary to view 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i and 1080p formats".

so the issue would be sony not supporting sync on green or composite sync... not the 360.

Then tell me why 1360x768, 1280x720 and all the other non 1080p resolutions work fine.
post #1559 of 3414
as well as 1080p computer sources working fine....
I still think its a crappy weird signal coming from the 360. It is not a full 1080p signal. This just needs to be fixed but nothing will be done unfortunately.
post #1560 of 3414
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantomhitman View Post

as well as 1080p computer sources working fine....
I still think its a crappy weird signal coming from the 360. It is not a full 1080p signal. This just needs to be fixed but nothing will be done unfortunately.

What makes you think they won't do anything? I would consider 1080p not working a top of the line LCD a big problem if I were MS.
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