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Official Sony 40",46" XBR2, XBR3 - Owner's Thread - Page 61

post #1801 of 3414
I also noticed(but not as much as dark screen) this on regular view. If you pay attention on the spot, colors are little lighter.
post #1802 of 3414
I think it's important for us escalate the issue. Let as many places as possible (Sony customer support in particular) know of the problem. I'm hoping that my e-mail to Sound and Vision will make some head way. If not, I'm prepared to up the ante and try to get it on tech blogs like Engadget.

I have an exchange scheduled but what makes me nervous is the replacement could be as bad if not worse.
post #1803 of 3414
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowcrash001 View Post

I also noticed(but not as much as dark screen) this on regular view. If you pay attention on the spot, colors are little lighter.

I too noticed lighter (washed out) colors while watching Heros last night.
post #1804 of 3414
My 34" XBR960 was made in the USA. It has been perfect. I'm sorry, but I have yet to come accross anything made in Mexico that was better or even equal to something made in Japan. There is no question that Japan has the best technology and best products in the world. There is a reason why they take top honors in to automotive industry year after year. Just take cars that are actually made in Japan (i.e not Toyota's that are made in USA or Canada). Lexus has it's main plant in Japan, where everything except for their midsized SUV is made. It has been number one in the world for the past 12 years in terms of quality, fit and finnish, and lowest error rate. The plant has produced the least amount of errors ever seen in the automotive industy. It puts cars made in Mexico to shame. Statistically cars made in Mexico (and some other parts of the world) are the most unreliable and have the worst build quality. It is no secret that Japan makes the highest quality stuff. Germany can make cars too, but not quite up to the standards that you see in Japan. If Sony would just stick to their roots and not "outsource" to Mexico we wouldn't be seeing these problems. I already paid my fare share and expect quality. I'm sure it would cost Sony more to pay people who actually care about making stuff right in Japan, and that would eat into their profits. But that is a choice that Sony must make. Maybe after these see the 100's if not 1000's of returns on these sets they will chose to move production to Japan.
post #1805 of 3414
Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzir View Post

I too noticed lighter (washed out) colors while watching Heros last night.

For me, noticing the spot during regular content requires a field of somewhat uniform brightness in the content, so that the 'spot' shows up. This is most easily observed with dark material, as we have all commented, but I have also seen the cloud lightening uniform fields of other colors.

I DVR'd Heroes last night. I will watch for it when I screen the show tonight...

More generally, I have noticed that the black level of my set isn't as good as my 32s2010. Can any of you think of why that might be? Shouldn't the XBRs have BETTER black levels? I have adjusted the settings extensively, power save, backlight level, blah blah blah, and I can't seem to get the blacks where I think they really should be (even allowing for LCD tech not being as good as CRT or Plasma in this regard). Heck, If I could just get them to be as good as the 32s2010, I'd be happy.

Those of you who have the cloud issue, is your overall black level less, well, black than you think it ought to be?
post #1806 of 3414
Quote:
Originally Posted by kraiggers View Post

More generally, I have noticed that the black level of my set isn't as good as my 32s2010. Can any of you think of why that might be? Shouldn't the XBRs have BETTER black levels? I have adjusted the settings extensively, power save, backlight level, blah blah blah, and I can't seem to get the blacks where I think they really should be (even allowing for LCD tech not being as good as CRT or Plasma in this regard). Heck, If I could just get them to be as good as the 32s2010, I'd be happy.

Those of you who have the cloud issue, is your overall black level less, well, black than you think it ought to be?

I agree that the black level on my 32S2000 is better than the XBR2. It may be the poor quality of the XBR2 panel or its size. Those are my guesses. Although the blacks of a 46" JVC I looked at seemed really good.
post #1807 of 3414
Maybe it's easier to get better blacks on a smaller panel. I have both the 32" and 40" XBR1 panels and they seem pretty close. Any differences I usually chalk up to different rooms' windows and lighting. My 40 seems very good overall, it has a stunning HD picture with plenty of blackness when the source is right.
I was contemplating 'upgrading' to a 1080p Sony 40-46, but my 40XBR1 is probably just as good or better. I would like to go larger, but I'll probably wait til 1080p matures and prices drop some more. I always thought bigger usually meant better for HD viewing. I know my 40 has more visual impact than my 32.
I'm a little concerned about the newest Sony panels issues some are reporting, it's a lot of dough, I'd want near perfection!.
post #1808 of 3414
Never had digital tv before, Bought an 46xbr2 for about two weeks. I am not an expert in lcd tvs or video issues. But I am having what appears to be a problem and wonder if anyone else has seen this.

Have TWC in San Diego, and their SA Explorer 8300HD dvr, connected with HDMI. I occasionally notice that out of no where after having had a stable picture, the video signal appears to cut out for a fraction of a second. It will do this sometimes as as a single event and then clear up, or other times repeatedly with a 20-30 sec frequency.

When I switch to using the raw cable signal fed directly to tv, same result..

This only happens about every third day or so. Is this common with digital cable signals, or is it a tv problem?

Thanks for the help . AMJ7
post #1809 of 3414
Quote:
Originally Posted by amj7 View Post

Never had digital tv before, Bought an 46xbr2 for about two weeks. I am not an expert in lcd tvs or video issues. But I am having what appears to be a problem and wonder if anyone else has seen this.

Have TWC in San Diego, and their SA Explorer 8300HD dvr, connected with HDMI. I occasionally notice that out of no where after having had a stable picture, the video signal appears to cut out for a fraction of a second. It will do this sometimes as as a single event and then clear up, or other times repeatedly with a 20-30 sec frequency.

When I switch to using the raw cable signal fed directly to tv, same result..

This only happens about every third day or so. Is this common with digital cable signals, or is it a tv problem?

Thanks for the help . AMJ7

Read my post from yesterday and tell me if it's the same thing.
post #1810 of 3414
Quote:
Originally Posted by gigaguy View Post

I'm a little concerned about the newest Sony panels issues some are reporting, it's a lot of dough, I'd want near perfection!.

Exactly. I don't know about your guys, but for me, $3500 (give or take) is a LOT of money. It is completely reasonable to expect [near] perfection.
post #1811 of 3414
Hi,

I just purchased the new XBR3 46" and it is an amazing set. I do have a question that I remember reading about on this site but can no longer find.

When hooked up to Cablevision STB (not the HDMI box) via componant I notice what looks like scrolling scan lines going up the picture. It is noticable via SD, but much less notacable via HD.

Anyone know why this is happening ?

First off I'm using the cables that came from cablevision. Secondly I ordered the newer HD box with HDMI - I'm waiting for it to come, then I will by a HQ HDMI cable and make the switch.

Hopefully that will correct this issue, but any feedback would be welcomed

Thanks.
post #1812 of 3414
any news on the 1080p xbox 360 issue
post #1813 of 3414
Quote:
Originally Posted by kraiggers View Post

For me, noticing the spot during regular content requires a field of somewhat uniform brightness in the content, so that the 'spot' shows up. This is most easily observed with dark material, as we have all commented, but I have also seen the cloud lightening uniform fields of other colors.

I DVR'd Heroes last night. I will watch for it when I screen the show tonight...

More generally, I have noticed that the black level of my set isn't as good as my 32s2010. Can any of you think of why that might be? Shouldn't the XBRs have BETTER black levels? I have adjusted the settings extensively, power save, backlight level, blah blah blah, and I can't seem to get the blacks where I think they really should be (even allowing for LCD tech not being as good as CRT or Plasma in this regard). Heck, If I could just get them to be as good as the 32s2010, I'd be happy.

Those of you who have the cloud issue, is your overall black level less, well, black than you think it ought to be?

What settings are being used here among the members that are having and issue and when was your set Mfg...? I think that the calibration of the panel may be more of the issue or at least exaggerating the issue.

I recently took delivery of a XBR3 - had it professionally calibrated and with these pro settings [my pic is on the dark side], I have no clouding at all - very uniform backlighting - the set was Mfg in October '06. That being said, coming from a Pro Calibrated XBR 960; no the black levels on the XBR3 are not as good as the XBR960, but what LCD can match this CRT in terms of black levels...? Only the Pio Elite Pro model for $7K so far can compete. But the XBR is certainly capable of showing great blacks; they are just not the deep black-blacks of the 960.

Part of the issue may be perception: I fully knew that going from CRT to LCD that I would have to deal with not being able to show true black/blacks. That is just the inherent limitation of LCD's and it's well known. Again, it my no means suggests that the XBR3 cannot display great blacks, for it does.
post #1814 of 3414
I was just at Circuit City looking at the 46XBR2 on the floor. The set wasn't in an exceptionally bright area so I feel I got a pretty good look at it. I didn't notice any discernible backlight leaks or clouds. The sales guy said they've had the set on the floor for a couple months which would put the manufacture date around August (I couldn't get around to the back of the set to verify but I feel it's a pretty good guess).
post #1815 of 3414
Quote:
Originally Posted by RLampke View Post

Only the Pio Elite Pro model for $7K so far can compete. But the XBR is certainly capable of showing great blacks; they are just not the deep black-blacks of the 960.

All of the current Pio plasmas (xx70HD, pro and elite panels) better the XBR3 in blacks and color saturation. The XBR3 definitely bests the Sammy LCD panels, however in black levels (though not by much).
post #1816 of 3414
why is it when im watching HDTV, there is a slight audio delay??
post #1817 of 3414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongoos150 View Post

All of the current Pio plasmas (xx70HD, pro and elite panels) better the XBR3 in blacks and color saturation. The XBR3 definitely bests the Sammy LCD panels, however.

I'll agree - just that from what I have seen, the Pio Elite Pro does it the best w/1080p to boot - IMO.
post #1818 of 3414
^ For sure.
post #1819 of 3414
My expectations for black levels of my xbr2 are not unreasonable (I don't think, anyway). All I would like is for it to be as good or better then my 32s2010, which cost less than half as much.

I forgot to mention in my earlier posts...When I first went back to talk to the store manager where I purchased my set (SonyStyle, Arlington VA) I went to the back of the store where a display xbr3 was mounted on the wall, and had the salesperson turn off the lights. It wasn't pitch black, but it was darker than my usual viewing environment. I then adjusted the settings to match what I have on my xbr2.

Backlight: 2
Picture: 70
Brightness: 48
Color Temp: Warm 1
Sharp: 10
NR: Low
DRC: 1
Black Corrector: High
ACE: Low
Gamma: Med
Color Space: Wide

When I switched inputs there was NO clouding at all. The screen was COMPLETELY uniform (and quite dark, now that I think about it). It looked at least as good, if not much better than my 32s2010. So, Ellisfsu got a good unit when he exchanged, and I've at least seen the difference between a bad unit (mine) and a good one (in the store).

There IS a difference, potentitally a HUGE difference. Don't try to convince yourself that you aren't seeing something when you really are. These xbr2/3s have the ability to be [near] perfect (for an LCD, anyway). I've SEEN one with my own eyes. I just don't know how LIKELY I am to get a good one on exchange...

That and I'm feeling extremely frustrated that this is an issue to begin with. It really gives me pause about sticking with the xbrs to begin with. I'll give it another chance (or two), however, because they CAN look so doggone good...!
post #1820 of 3414
Hello all,

I recently purchased a 46V2500 which has the BRAVIA Engine as opposed to the BRAVIA Engine PRO in the 46XBR2 & 46XBR3. Does anyone have any experience with the set I purchased or can anyone tell me if there is any noticeable difference between the 2 Video Processors? When I looked at the comparison on Sony's website, it lists the difference in the processors but does not help with any visual comparisons.

Also, can anyone provide any information as to the difference between the XBR2 & XBR3? I am just wondering if it would worth the additional $300 or $600 (respectively) to upgrade the LCD I have now.

Thank you all in advance for any help here.
post #1821 of 3414
Quote:
Originally Posted by kraiggers View Post

Backlight: 2
Picture: 70
Brightness: 48
Color Temp: Warm 1
Sharp: 10
NR: Low
DRC: 1
Black Corrector: High
ACE: Low
Gamma: Med
Color Space: Wide

When I switched inputs there was NO clouding at all. The screen was COMPLETELY uniform (and quite dark, now that I think about it). It looked at least as good, if not much better than my 32s2010. So, Ellisfsu got a good unit when he exchanged, and I've at least seen the difference between a bad unit (mine) and a good one (in the store).

There IS a difference, potentitally a HUGE difference. Don't try to convince yourself that you aren't seeing something when you really are. These xbr2/3s have the ability to be [near] perfect (for an LCD, anyway). I've SEEN one with my own eyes. I just don't know how LIKELY I am to get a good one on exchange...

That and I'm feeling extremely frustrated that this is an issue to begin with. It really gives me pause about sticking with the xbrs to begin with. I'll give it another chance (or two), however, because they CAN look so doggone good...!

I'm surprised that even running the [Black Corrector] at that level you are still seeing clouding. I have it set at [off] for it crushes black too much - but I still get great uniform blacks/backlighting. My settings are much different than yours if memory serves me correctly.

Perhaps you do have a defective panel. If so, what I would do is unbox it at the store and have them hook it up to see if the new panel is to your satisfaction. If it's in internet purchase, keep sending it back.

Giving up the XBR is an option, but what other LCD is there that compares..? The Sharp would be [and I would have purchased this] if it was not for the banding issues and not being able to show neutral colors like the XBR can. Perhaps you should dump LCD for Plasma if your tastes are for true black/blacks.
post #1822 of 3414
Quote:
Originally Posted by slapshot1848 View Post

any news on the 1080p xbox 360 issue

no, but MS has acknowledged the problem. no timetable for a fix though......
post #1823 of 3414
Quote:
Originally Posted by RLampke View Post

I'm surprised that even running the [Black Corrector] at that level you are still seeing clouding. I have it set at [off] for it crushes black too much - but I still get great uniform blacks/backlighting.

Without the Black Corrector, my screen is washed out, specifically the cloudy spots. I'm jealous that you have good black without the corrector, it DOES blow away a lot of detail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RLampke View Post

Perhaps you should dump LCD for Plasma if your tastes are for true black/blacks.

I'm not a nazi about black level; I can VERY happily live with the black level I get on my 32s2010.

I guess my point is that I understand the tradeoffs with LCD. I know black won't be as good as my old 34hs510. I'm OK with that.

My settings aren't ideal, or maybe even that good. However, when I compared two units with the same settings, one was cloudy (mine) and one was not (demo at store). I'm NOT willing to accept a $3500 unit that is not preforming the way it should be.

I think there MUST be a fairly significant variation in the backlight uniformity and/or black level on these xbrs. Obviously, not everyone is having these issues. But also quite obviously, some of us are. I think that variability in and of itself would be somewhat worrying even to the folks who were fortunate enough to get good panels.

I still want an xbr2 -- but I want it to be a good one...
post #1824 of 3414
jaguar325

My interuptions are just a fraction of a second. It almost appears to me that the tv thinks it has lost the signal for a split second and then changes it mind. I do not know enough about digital cable signals to know whether the cable company signal can have a mometary degradition for a fraction of a second. This is the first time I have had digital cable.

As I said, I do not have a lot of experince with digital tv-- am a newbie. Was just wondering if the problem is common with digital tv signals, or whether it is my tv.

Your suggestion that the signal could be momentarily exceeding the processing capabilites is interesting, but I have no idea if this is possible.

AMJ7
post #1825 of 3414
Quote:
Originally Posted by kraiggers View Post

I forgot to mention in my earlier posts...When I first went back to talk to the store manager where I purchased my set (SonyStyle, Arlington VA) I went to the back of the store where a display xbr3 was mounted on the wall, and had the salesperson turn off the lights. It wasn't pitch black, but it was darker than my usual viewing environment. I then adjusted the settings to match what I have on my xbr2.

Can you get back to the store and look to see when and where it was manufactured? That would be so telling.
post #1826 of 3414
Quote:
Originally Posted by kraiggers View Post

Without the Black Corrector, my screen is washed out, specifically the cloudy spots. I'm jealous that you have good black without the corrector, it DOES blow away a lot of detail.

That why I stated that this could very well be a calibration issue - or not.
post #1827 of 3414
I really don't think this is a calibration issue. I've been through DVE several times and had pretty much all of the settings up and down the scales trying to calibrate away the clouds. I'm not a pro calibrator, or even close, really. HOWEVER, nothing I do makes the clouds go away. They are marginally less hideous with backlight low and Black Corrector high, but only marginally.

Having seen my 'cloudy' set and then seeing the same one that is totally smooth and uniform (never mind my 32s2010), I really have no doubt that the cloud problem is real. RLampke, if you are lucky enough to have a clean panel, be happy and enjoy it. I think if you ever see this problem first hand, you will know it immediately.

I think I have a bad panel, which is both cloudy, and not as black as it ought to be. Hopefully a new one will be all right. I'll check the date of manufacture tonight and post it...
post #1828 of 3414
Quote:
Originally Posted by kraiggers View Post

I really don't think this is a calibration issue. I've been through DVE several times and had pretty much all of the settings up and down the scales trying to calibrate away the clouds. I'm not a pro calibrator, or even close, really. HOWEVER, nothing I do makes the clouds go away. They are marginally less hideous with backlight low and Black Corrector high, but only marginally.

Having seen my 'cloudy' set and then seeing the same one that is totally smooth and uniform (never mind my 32s2010), I really have no doubt that the cloud problem is real. RLampke, if you are lucky enough to have a clean panel, be happy and enjoy it. I think if you ever see this problem first hand, you will know it immediately.

I think I have a bad panel, which is both cloudy, and not as black as it ought to be. Hopefully a new one will be all right. I'll check the date of manufacture tonight and post it...

You may very well have a defective panel, for some of the pics that I've seen that are posted - my panel looks no where near that bad. Nevertheless, let me re-ideate my point here:

When I say it may be calibration related, I say that because if you re running your settings too high/low, you are always going to notice non-linear performance because you are not operating in the panels "optimum" range. What does that mean...? It means that every single display technology has a optimal range in which it operates - no display that I'm aware of can run optimally having all settings set at [0] or at [100] - it is somewhere in between. Even my XBR960: if I were to crank up the settings [color/contrast/brightness] from the pro calibrates settings, I would notice imperfections w/the picture - the XBR LCD panel is no different. If I crank-up all the brightness settings, I will see non-linear lighting [clouding] on my XBR3, but this is not how this panel should be set; and the reason why I always have my sets pro calibrated. I'm not saying this is what you are doing, but your settings are different than mine. I would however indeed exchange it for another panel and see, for again it could very well be defective.

My XBR3 after pro calbration is on par w/the XBR960 that I had - better in resolution and color reproduction but only suffering againt the XBR960 in terms of deep black/blacks and color saturation. This panel is that good.

Take this FWIW.
post #1829 of 3414
I havent gone through the whole thread. But i get the impression that this backlighting issue has been brought as a serious problem only very recently. Is it possible that more recent sets are affected by this problem more than older ones? Did Sony change something in their manufacturing process?
post #1830 of 3414
I know you guys are in a discussion.... but I'm hoping to break in just for a quick response if this is a known issue with a known fix.... HDMI ???

Hi,

I just purchased the new XBR3 46" and it is an amazing set. I do have a question that I remember reading about on this site but can no longer find.

When hooked up to Cablevision STB (not the HDMI box) via componant I notice what looks like scrolling scan lines going up the picture. It is noticable via SD, but much less notacable via HD.

Anyone know why this is happening ?

First off I'm using the cables that came from cablevision. Secondly I ordered the newer HD box with HDMI - I'm waiting for it to come, then I will by a HQ HDMI cable and make the switch.

Hopefully that will correct this issue, but any feedback would be welcomed

Thanks.
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