Official Sony 40",46" XBR2, XBR3 - Owner's Thread - Page 66

Again, he's not an ass - he's probably just comparing the XBR to a different technology (read: non-LCD) which does not suffer from backlight drawbacks {DLP, Plasma}.

Have you seen white engine GAMEPLAY demos of FFXIII?

Totally agree. The clouding is ABSOLUTELY an issue. Especially but NOT exclusively on dark material.

Bad news -- after two nights of solid viewing, I have determined that my replacement panel, while much better than the previous one, still has clouding. It is less strong in all conditions than before, but it IS still there.

I'm REALLY bummed. I wanted this set to be OK. But I keep coming back to what I've said before: $4000 should buy a perfect or near-perfect picture. The cloud/fog is NOT perfect. And I say that allowing for the fact that LCD has limitations on black level. It should NOT have limitations on uniformity.

There are two interesting differences between the first and second panels. The second panel is brighter and has better saturation; not hugely better, but slightly. Unlike the first panel, this one takes about an hour for the cloud to get fully 'bloomed'. Odd. This behaviour led me to the [as it turns out] premature assumption that this panel would be ok.

Both of my sets were manufactured in Oct, '06

As Ellisfsu said a few posts back, after two unacceptable (to me, anyway) sets, I'm going to something different. [Cue funeral dirge.]
I'm going back to my 34hs510. Maybe I'll grab a Pioneer 1080p 50" plasma when they come down a little bit in price. $8000 is a little too salty.

I just don't want to have to deal with this anymore, and given that Sony isn't speaking to the issue, I have no confidence that a third panel wouldn't also have the same problem.

I'm bummin' in a big way, fellas. This panel is everything I want in a TV...except for the clouds, of course.

Since others have posted some pictures of their set on here, I thought I would post some of mine, since it's my pride and joy.

I have a KDL46XBR2 (August build). I'm using the CNET settings. I do notice some clouding while changing inputs, but (thankfully) I have not seen any while anything is actually being displayed.

(Note that these pictures are shrunk down, so they don't do the set justice. Full res pictures are available here if you are so inclined)

First off is a picture of my setup. Sorry for the flash flare - it was too dark without it. The stand is from Sanus . I like the look of the stand, and the way the tv seems to float, but I still need to figure out a way to hide the tangle of cables in the back.




Second picture is from the preview for Washed Away, as shown on HDNET's "Nothing But Trailers". (Thank you HDNET for finally coming to Canada a few days ago -- the content may be boring, but the PQ is stunning!). The colours in the photo don't pop the same way as they do on the tv. The trailer is the best video I've watched on this tv so far. (and note that any lack of sharpness in the picture is due to me not having a tripod!)





Last picture is from my Mac Mini (first generation PPC) hooked up through the VGA input. The actual image on the screen doesn't have the "parchment"-like look that the full-res version of the photo seems to - I think that's the effect of the camera. I'm amazed at the crispness of the fonts, even with the VGA connection (as I posted in a previous post, I had trouble getting things to look right with HDMI).





MSG me if you have any questions on the photos, or my experiences with the tv.

Brad.

I will throw out a couple of my pics, crappy camera, cod 2 looks unbelievably good!

[click the thumbnail for full res.]

Turn flash off next time bro - sweet pics by the way. The stand definitely needs an upgrade though, I'd be afraid of someone or something knocking the panel down from that tiny stand!!!

And take those damn stickers off.

Is Best Buy going to lower the prices on the XBR2s anytime soon?

Heeeeeeell no! Not for at least a year.

Why is that? One of the junkmails I got a while back said all TVs were discounted, and in fine print it said it excludes the Sony XBR models.

Well, I got my replacement 46XBR2 yesterday, plugged it in, and held my breath. Clouds still evident - Damn! Although not as pronounced, it is concenrated in the left upper corner, almost identical to my first set. I can at least view darker scenes without noticing the left corner as much as I did on the first set. My replacement is an October 2006 build from Mexico (note sure what my first set was). I don't think I will go through the hassle of replacing again, until I know that the problem is recognized and perhaps newer batches are manufactured correctly. It will be interesting to see new owners on this thread as they purchase sets into next year. I have a 4 yr. BB protection plan, and that much time to have this issue addressed if I am dissatisfied.

On the 46XBR2, I hear occasional snap or popping sound on over the air HD signals (antenna in the attic). Also, I hear them when the picture switches between commercials and the show I am watching. Is this just a signal quality issue? Also, while watching a 480i signal this morning, it will occasionally black out for a split second. I am speculating that this is just a signal weakness issue, where I may lose the signal for a second or some other type of interference. Neither the sound or dropped picture are issues with watching DVD's. One last item, I noticed watching a 1080i PBS OTA signal, as mentioned earlier in this long thread, the picture becomes almost a mosaic during fast motion, with very poor picture quality until the motion stops (like the picture someone posted that looked like a butterfly in a "Monet" painting). Is this also related to signal quality?

Thanks

I found this from Andrew Scott's post. Funny, my example was also a PBS children's show, at 1080i, which makes me think it's that incoming signal. It is WGBH in Boston area. I didn't notice it while watching other HD channels.

their prices are crazy

I have a feeling CC will drop them under 3000 before new years

Sweetp, do your clouds get stronger after the set has been on for a while? [I don't really know how long -- maybe an hour or so?]

My replacement was AWESOME after calibration, but after I watched a couple of fairly bright full-screen shows, I put on a 2.35:1 movie (matrix) and BOOM, cloud in the upper left corner.

I soon realized I could see the cloud during any dark material, but it took a lot longer to show up than on my first panel, where the clouds were extremely visible within 5-10 minutes.

I think I have to accept the fact that for some reason this unit finds less digital unencrypted QAM signals than the DVICO fusion card or the SFA 8300. Fortunately my new HDMI cable arrived, and the picture quality, as many have suggested here, is a major step up from the component cable.

I don't think the clouds get stronger after time. I think it's more of your eyes adapting to the room darkness,which makes the set seem to "glow" from the backlight, and the foggy corner seem all the worse. During bright scenes or watching the TV in daylight, not a real problem to me. I am, however, frustrated, as I am sure you are, and feel a sense of defeat over this. I'm really not sure what to do. I don't think I am ready to give up on this set, based on an otherwise beautiful picture.

Mine is built in Mexico, but ill have to double check on the build date. I dont see any back light bleeding on mine. and I didn't see any cloudiness whenever I switch to an input without a source.

All of the XBR2/3 TV's are assembled in Mexico.
Every LCD TV has backlight bleed. If it didn't you wouldn't be able to see the image on the screen.
I guess if you replaced your LCD panel with a piece of black plywood that would eliminate the backlight bleed. May be a fire hazzard though, so check with your local fire department first before making the change.

A sense of defeat is EXACTLY how I feel about this. Maybe I'm noticing things that other owners can be more sanguine about, but what matters to me is that I AM satisfied, not someone else. For $4k, I think the picture should be COMPLETELY uniform. Perhaps what I've really discovered in this process is that larger LCD panels do not universally meet the PQ levels that I'm personally looking for in a large TV. [shrug] I'm pretty much throwing in the towel on the 46xbr.

Nascar Dog: If I understand LCD technology, backlight bleed is most certainly NOT required to see the picture. Making light of other peoples' concerns/issues does NOT engender goodwill.

I'll take some pics of my XBR3 tonight using various backlighting settings to demonstrate that; at least on my panel, that non-linear backlighting [clouding] only manifests at the highest settings - and it extremely linear when set properly. Again, this panel cannot produce deep black/blacks that CRT can.

Just compare an original GameBoy (Without a backlight) to a GameBoy Advance SP or Nintendo DS (Both having backlights) or any other LCD device that has a backlight and it is pretty obvious that without a backlight blasting light at the back of the panel, you would have a really hard time watching your TV in anything but very bright conditions.

That's the real issue with the sets with problems. Even on the lowest settings, in a dark room, the backlighing remains non-linear. I can darken all the backlighting, black level, power savings, light sensor, etc, to the point I can barely see the picture, and non-linear clouding is still perceptable! I wouldn't mind a uniform level of clouding, because it wouldn't be perceived as a problem for most viewers. It's the unevenness that draws your attention to the brighter patches.

That definitely does not the case on my XBR3 whatsoever using normal settings - the pics I hope will demonstrate this.

Can you tell us your build date? I think Oct/Sep 2006 is the one having problems.

You didn't say, "If it didn't have a backlight you wouldn't be able to see the screen." The implied object of your latter sentence is that if it didn't have backlight BLEED your wouldn't be able to see the screen. This isn't correct. While the backlight may be a useful addition, the bleed most certainly is not.

I just can't accept that the backlighting is so variable across the screen. It doesn't matter if 80% of the set is perfect, if the other 20% is cloudy and visibly brighter under all settings/conditions.

I now believe that this is a VERY common issue to some minimal degree, with relatively small numbers of sets SEVERELY affected, and also relatively small numbers cloud-free. Perhaps it isn't related to Mexican fabrication, but rather just a technical side-effect of large-panel LCDs.

At any rate, this generation of LCD XBRs is not for me. I want to sit down in front of my $4k TV and be just AWED. And the clouds destroy that for me.

Any suggestions for plasma 1080p in the 50" range? Panny has a commercial model - any idea when that might migrate over to consumer? I can get a deal on Panny through my company, but only the consumer stuff...

Oct '06

I thought someone else with the cloud issue had a set from August. I don't think this issue is really limited to Sept/Oct. Could be wrong, though, obviously...

This is an absolute crock.

There are two degrees of 'clouding':

1. The 99.9% of LCD TV owners who notice mild backlight inconsitencies when the panel is 'on' in that fraction of a second before the source changes. Just like a laptop or the rear of a digital camera, a blank backlit LCD screen has some cloudy appearance. It has ZERO impact on the picture when the panel is doing what it's supposed to be doing- showing a picture. We don't stare at blank powered panels.

2. The 00.1% of LCD TV owners that have a legitimate defective product with a defective backlight or a poor backlight alignment. They have a legitimate gripe and should return their panel just as they would if the speakers were broken or the tuner was inoperable.

There is no other option. There's no such thing as a "cloud prone" LCD. It either works or it doesn't.

BJ

Post of the year!

Well, might have been. See, I'm typing this on an LCD computer monitor and I couldn't read half of it because of the 'clouding'. Ooh. Scary clouding.

BK