Laminate Screen Material and Testing! - Page 5

Be warned that these 5x10 sheets (at least mine) was 5' 1" x 10' 1 1/2"... you'll have two cuts to make on this if you drop your size down that much.

For cutting... I did the put some tape (I used painters tape, the blue stuff) down and marked my cut line on top of that. The sheet they gave me at the Home Depot said to score repeatedly with a utility knife on your line until you cut though. I did that for about 18" worth of my one cut, and gave up as it was going to be a long process. I didn't want to haul this thing back upstairs and setup the table saw and my circular saw blade isn't very sharp so I was afraid to use it as well. What I ended up doing was scoring the surface once or twice on my line just to break the tape and the very top surface of the laminate. After that I *did* use my tin snips. I cut in very small increments (maybe 1/4" of an inch at a "snip") and came out with a beautiful cut edge with no problems. I noticed if I tried to take large cuts (1/2" or more at one "snip") that the board wanted to delaminate (I tested this on what is now my left over piece before I cut on my actual line so I could test my procedure). So, trick was to "roll" up the cut piece as I made my way slowly across the cut. I scored the cut line only to help keep chips and such from forming... don't know if it really helped, but figured it couldn't hurt. It also worked somewhat as guide for the Tin Snips to follow as my snip blades fell right into the scored line nicely. In the end it was much quicker than making multiple scores with a utility knife.

I have my molding cut to size but haven't wrapped it in velvet yet. I used the small metal 1/8" mirror mounting brackets (from a side view they resemble an "S" with a 1/8" step) to hold up the laminate sheet. Seems to work really nice. I'll cover my baseboard (primed pine 3" baseboard) with my velvet from JoAnn's and I think I'm going to build small french cleats to attach to the boarder frame and hang that way.

Dave,

Could you post some screen shots from your testing, I'd love to see how the different laminates compare.

BTW how do you get the larger samples? I've only seen the little 2" squares that are totally useless for a comparison

Came back to this point to see how Clarence mounted his laminte and saw this post.

I was thinking of doing this exact same thing, but decided against it only because I might paint my BOC screen just to see how it works and compare to the laminate. What I thought of doing was using these little grey window screen holders. They have metal ones that are meant to clip into a screen door and tighten down against the screen to hold the screen in... that's not what I was going to use. Instead these things look like half of a wing nut (only one wing). You can screw it into the back of you BOC frame and slide the "wing" over the laminte to "pinch" the laminte against the backside of you frame. I thought of using this method directly into my velvet wrapped boarder but went a different route because the baseboard I was using was only 7/16" thick and I didn't think I could get a fastner to stay. I was looking at these screen door things at Home Depot... but I'm sure you can find something like this other places. Hope it helps.

The screen cannot change the contrast ratio either on/off or ANSI. It can maximize what you have, but not give you greater than what the projector can do.



Yes, unless you don't have an optimized room. This is one area that a grey screen can help. I mentioned to wbassett that it would be great if Wilsonart could have three different greys like Goo does. If you check their screen swatch page, then you see Goo has a light grey, a little darker grey and a dark grey. The light grey would be perfect for CRT owners who have ambient light issues or maybe even a white room.

Ericglo

After trying light gray with CRT, I'd never recommend it, even as a bandaid for ambient light. For gray to compensate for poor blacks, you need lumens to spare.

The only thing worse than having a CRT in a room with poor light control would be having a CRT in a room with poor light control having to fight a gray screen. CRTs have notorious and enviable blacks... don't ruin them with ambient light and then try to compensate with a gray screen.

Gray screens are best left to digital projectors with crappy contrast and lumens to spare. The most effective gray screens have high gain... so that extra lamp output gets boosted even more at the high end. But high gain is unsuitable for CRT due to hotspotting and color shift.

Eric's experience must be completely different than mine, but I can't concur with his "perfect" CRT+gray recommendation. The combination is not typical or widely-accepted; IMHO "perfect" is the last word I'd use to describe the combination.

I will defer to you on this Clarence since I have only played with the little samples. You are probably correct, but I was thinking that a very light grey might work. If it doesn't, then that is fine. I have a theory on how to possibly make a gain grey screen. This might be an alternative solution. Also, I don't have as big of a screen as you do.

Ericglo

I will set everything up and get some pics when I get home (I kinda hodge-podged it last night). Unfortunately I won't be back there until Thurs

I just called and asked for larger samples. Most companies will send a couple but they try not to send them unless the smaller ones are unacceptable for your purpose. If the rep seems reluctant tell them one or all of the other companies sent you larger ones and you need to compare. If you want to get creative give the impression that you are a contractor/fabricator or in some other way needing the samples for a for-hire situation.



Also for those concerned about price - I buy from a local distributor here in Memphis @1.75 per sq ft. If you can't find it in your area I will offer to pickup a sheet and ship it wherever as long as all the shipping cost are covered. (I drive near the distributor almost daily). PM me for details if you need it.
I can also get Pionite but not up to date on the cost.

I kinda like your grey talk, being a panny and all ....

Howdy Folks.

Since there are quite a few questions regarding back-frame ideas, I thought I would share with the masses what I came up with. NOTE: I did this prior to this thread starting, so I used a product called Sintra for the screen material and painted it. By the sounds of things, Sintra and the products mentioned in this thread appear to be similar, therefore I think my solution would apply:

From various posts here I decided to use 1x4s for the framing lumber (just stock Pine boards). I used metal braces and short wood screws to connect the butt joints. I measured the finished dimensions of the screen material and cut the boards longer in both "X and Y" to allow for about a 1 1/2" boarder beyond the edges of the screen material. So, the perimeter portion of the frame was a total of 3" longer in both directions (1 1/2" per side). As mentioned for the butt joints of the perimeter portion I used some right angle flat braces and short wood screws (Be sure the perimeter is square first! Use the method of measuring diagonally across the frame and adjust until the measurement is the same in both directions). Then, I did put in two vertical boards equally spaced between the right and left sides. Do a "dry fit" of these verticals and mark on the top board where they will attach. Then, in the sections where the verticals do not intersect (three areas), I cut 45 degree "wedges" to the bottom edge of the top board. This is for the other half of the French Cleat (which is screwed into the wall studs) to mate with the screen once it is hung up. This results in a very shallow profile of the completed screen once it is on the wall - plus it is easily removable. I attached the vertical boards with flat "T" braces and short wood screws. That's it for the wood work, but to protect the wall from the metal of the braces and screws, I did stick on some large felt adhesive pads to all four corners and on the "T" braces. These will be the only things in contact with the wall. Now, flip that pig over and let's get to putting on the screen material.

To attach the actual screen material, I used 3M Rubber and Vinyl 80 Spray Adhesive. I applied it to both the wood surface and the back of the screen material (per the directions on the can). Before doing this though, I took some time and measured and snapped lines on the perimeter of the frame, creating the 1 1/2" boarder. I did this so I could take care when spraying the adhesive. I didn't want any in the 1 1/2" border area (you will see why later). OK, so now I applied the adhesive. After waiting the amount of time mentioned in the directions for the adhesive, I stood the screen material up "width-wise" with the resting edge resting on the snapped line I made (right on the edge of the 1 1/2" boarder). I was able to do this myself, but if you can employ an extra set of hands, it might be a little easier. I then laid the material down over the frame (which was laying on a level concrete garage floor - not introducing any "flex" to the frame). I went around and pressed all areas where the material was to be in contact with the frame. It doesn't move! Be careful to get this just about dead on in your first attempt. It seems this particular adhesive is like contact cement, so it doesn't allow for much correction.

OK, now the screen material is "permanently" introduced to the frame. I hung up the screen at this point. Next step was to cover up the 1 1/2" boarder with some luxurious black velvet craftsmanship! To do this, I used 1"x3"s to make a picture frame around the actual screen material. The picture frame will actually lay down against the 1 1/2" reveal of the screen frame, butting up tight the screen material. There are other threads here for specifics on wrapping the wood in velvet. For me, I again used flat right angle brackets for the corners of the picture frame. OK, now your picture frame should be built and wrapped in velvet. Now to cover up that 1 1/2" boarder. Do some good measuring to see how much of the 1"x3" black velvet picture frame is going to extend beyond the frame edge (should be about 1"). Mark these measurements on the underside of the right and left sides of the picture frame. Also mark the bottom board the same way. Using these marks, attach some pieces of drywall corner bead so that the right angle of the bead is on the measure marks you just made You might have to "rip" down the corner bead so it doesn't stick out beyond the edge of the picture frame. I used some tin snips - and some leather gloves - very sharp edges on the corner bead. This should create a "tab" that is standing off the picture frame. Lift the picture frame onto the screen frame 1 1/2" reveal, making sure the tabs get by the back frame and the picture frame lays down on the back frame and not the screen material. It should be a nice snug fit if you measured everything right. Now, simply run some screws through the loose corner bead "tabs" into the edge of the back frame! I chose not to install a "bead tab" to the top edge - my ceiling is too close to get a screw gun in there. Currently, the top board is just resting on the upper edge of the screen material. You could always put a strip of Velcro along the boarder for the top of the picture frame to "stick" to. This will hold it!

I chose to build my screen this way, since I wanted it to hang from just the top edge. Reason being, in case there were some "waves" in the wall, the majority of the screen can float over the waves and still be true and smooth. Also, if I need to take the frame down, the velvet frame is removed first, therefore being protected. (By the way all of the materials mentioned were purchased at my (mostly) friendly neighborhood Home Depot).

If this all helps someone - great! I am sure there will need to be some clarification in this, so just let me know. Good luck!

Great post!
Let me be the first to ask.... Pictures????

Thanks davedeal. Yup, I knew pictures would be needed. I took two pictures: One of the finished product on the wall and another which is a close up of the dry wall bead where it attaches the back frame and the picture frame. I would guess you want a shot of the actual back frame. I can do that, but I have to take it down to do so.

Looking at this some more and checking out this website you linked to has given me some ideas. My problem with the way everyone has been using RGB values is that there is so much error involved that it makes the data inaccurate. That being said I played with that calculator and it is very nice. It has a number of illuminant settings, but most importantly a D65 setting. This may prove pivotal in WB's talks with Wilsonart.

I am not sure if the data supplied above was in the D65 setting or not. The Designer White is 92.62% of pure white on this calculator or 234 in RGB. Using 234 for Designer White at 1 or unity gain, I calculated greys from 75% (177), 80% (188), 85% (201), 90% (212), 95% (223). The RGB values are in paranthesis. I then compared them to see the different shades (see picture).

Checking the values for the Wilsonart colors above one sees that Platinum, Dove and Fashion are pretty close. Again this is if these values supplied are at D65. The relative gains based on Designer White give Dove at 67%, Platinum at 81%, and Fashion at 85%.

If Wilsonart is able to take the values from the calculator at D65 and convert them accurately to make a laminate or vice versa by coming up with a color to match the values above, then we may have accurate D65 Grey screens. I would like to know how many different colors or in this case shades Wilsonart is willing to manufacture. With Platinum and Fashion being close enough (RGB values of 186,185,184 and 195,195,193 respectively), they may only need two or three more Grey screens for a nice lineup. I am not sure how much interest they have in the projector screen business, but coming out with a pj screen line would be a nice addition their bottom line. Even at $2 sq/ft, it would still be a nice DIY option. As someone who has a good paint system, I can tell you that even I couldn't get the same perfectly even finish of these laminates. That is why I would recommend this as a better option to painting.


With a sample of a color, I could match the color to a DE of less than .5. I would still say it would be easier to go the laminate route. I do have an idea where painting could make the ultimate screen. If it ever stops raining, then I may give it a try.

Ericglo

Honestly.......If you get in touch with the right person at Wilsonart (ie, the VP of sales from HQ)......They dont care what its used for......as long as they sell more product.

Having a business background......nobody in their right mind would refuse a sale......no matter what the indended purpose (as long as its legal, and there are no liability issues).

To get them to introduce colors that benifit us however, We would have to demonstrate enough interest to offset tooling costs for the new colors. As long as they can make a profit......I dont see it being a problem.

Awesome work! This is getting exciting!

Are commercial screens manufactured green deficient by design? I wonder if there is an anomaly with projectors that produces an increase in green? I would expect that the mfgs r&d would lead them to the most applicable surface materials... ???
Just thinking outloud

update: I just noticed on some other threads that LCD pjs do have an inherent green push. Couldn't find any info on DLP but if they do as well that would explain screen mfgs offerings.

NICE It would seem I'm a few days behind the curve.

And yes.....all this definitely has my attention.

Good call, wbassett. I saw that price at Joann's today and shuddered. Might have to try the designer white with the black suede border.

I went to Home depot today and picked up a 24"x48" sample of wilsonart white laminate. I didn't like the results with alot of ambient light so I coated it with a RGB metallic mix and it look great. I'm going back today and getting the 4'x8' size and try a full size version. Will post pictures when I get done.

Information has been moved to RGB thread

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...66#post8358666

rfisher1968:

What specific color was the laminate originally and what went into the grey metallic mixture you painted on it for those pics?

Information has been moved to RGB thread

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...66#post8358666

I just got done painting the 4'x8' peice. Once it dries I will take a picture of the back. It does have a wilsonart logo on it so I know it is wilsonart laminate.