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Laminate Screen Material and Testing! - Page 92

post #2731 of 2849
6/24/11 at 9:17am
Good to know. Do you happen to know what percentage of the back of the laminate has to be adhered to a frame for it to hold?

Myu question might be quite arbitrary. But your frame looks fairly complex, by that I mean, more surface area for the DW to adhere to.

I was looking into making a frame that looked like:

|-------------|
|\\ | /|
| \\ | / |
| \\ | / |
| \\ | / |
| \\ | / |
| \\ | / |
| \\ | / |
| \\|/ |
---------------

Now obviouslt that isn't to scale as it is far more vertical than horizontal. I'm an ACII art noob. But that is the basic framing I am looking to create on a 16x9 screen. I would only apply the adheseive to those bars. I think it will probably be ok. But I just wanted some peace of mind.
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post #2732 of 2849
6/24/11 at 9:18am
well damn. That took all the spaces out of my "image"
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post #2733 of 2849
6/24/11 at 4:52pm
Well when you look at mine only the tan wood is glued, the black part is "Gator board" used by framers. So the glue is really only on the 4 inch wide portions. This is a 110" screen and seems to work great. Been 2 years maybe 3 this August.
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post #2734 of 2849
6/27/11 at 4:50pm
I used the glue for my frame also. I used 3" pieces for my frame and it has worked for about 3 years. Make sure you only glue the outer part of the frame, don't use glue on any of the inner support pieces.
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post #2735 of 2849
6/29/11 at 6:38pm
Excellent, it had been my hope to only glue it to the perimeter of the frame.

Did you use the laminate floor glue, or contact cement? I got conflicting answers at Lowes.

The contact cement has to be applied to both the frame and the laminate and then let dry for 15-20 min; after which you apply a lot of pressure. Did either of you go through that, or did you apply the glue and then mount it on the frame pretty quickly?

I just want to make sure I get this right. Don't want to have to start over.
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post #2736 of 2849
6/29/11 at 7:07pm
Quote:


Make sure you only glue the outer part of the frame, don't use glue on any of the inner support pieces.

you can adhere the inner frame for support and keep it from bowing... but it has to be a FOAM based adhesive that will not shrink and create a dip in your screen.

here's a good tip... at the same time as you are gluing the outside with standard laminate adhesive...squirt a bead of foam insulatin on inside supports.
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post #2737 of 2849
6/29/11 at 7:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedukeo8 View Post

Excellent, it had been my hope to only glue it to the perimeter of the frame.

Did you use the laminate floor glue, or contact cement? I got conflicting answers at Lowes.

The contact cement has to be applied to both the frame and the laminate and then let dry for 15-20 min; after which you apply a lot of pressure. Did either of you go through that, or did you apply the glue and then mount it on the frame pretty quickly?

I just want to make sure I get this right. Don't want to have to start over.

I used 3M 90-24 Spray Adhesive 17.6-Ounce. You still have to apply it to both the laminent and the frame, but it sets up a whole lot quicker.
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post #2738 of 2849
6/30/11 at 8:19am
I've built three laminate screens over the last 4 years, and I've never had any luck with glue. The first glue down I tried I had to scrap and start over because it caused so much rippling and bending of the screen around the edges.
I've used a staple gun a couple times with much better success. I also think the spray adhesive is probably a better option for even application that won't cause ripples, but I've never tried it.
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post #2739 of 2849
7/5/11 at 8:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by luebster View Post
It seems to me, after over 6 months of lurking around and occasionally posting in DIY laminate screen threads, people having problems with the laminate staying "flat" mounted it to a wood frame. We all know that wood expands, contracts, warps, and so on given changes in temperature and humidity. Even if those changes are 1/8 of an inch, the laminate will show it. As one wood working website once wrote, "The tendency of wood to contract and expand, shrink and swell cannot be stopped. You must plan for it. Design and build with dimensional change in mind."

One poster here constructed a wood frame with spring loaded tensioners that allowed him to tighten and loosen the frame as the wood changed in size. Have a search for that if you're determined to use wood.

If you're interested in something more "rigid," may I suggest a frame constructed of lightweight extruded 1" aluminum tubing sold by the 80/20 company. You can read about one poster's build here. Over 2 years later, he has had zero problems with it. Some other pros to 80/20's Quick Frame aluminum tubing are: lightweight, cut to your exact specifications, and easy to assemble.

To be fair, wood frame pros include easy to acquire, easy to cut, easy to assemble, some woods are lightweight.

For my money, however, aluminum tubing is the way to go. And I'll be going that way Monday when I call to place my order.

Good luck, dmac.
I went with the aluminum frame as well, and I have loved it. Light, rigid and will never warp, swell or contract.

Sure it costs a little more, but with the money you save by going WA and the long haul durability of the complete screen, it's worth the extra IMHO.
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post #2740 of 2849
7/6/11 at 6:17am
Just a quick followup:

I completed my WA DW, 80/20 aluminum QuickFrame installation on Super Bowl Sunday (Feb 6, for the uninitiated). The screen measures roughly 92" wide by 52" tall for a 103" diagonal. If the math is off, don't flame me. I'm at work and don't have the exact numbers in front of me.

I used industrial strength Velcro to fix the laminate to the frame and Goo Systems black Screen Flock tape directly on the screen for the border. 5 months later, the only problem I've had is the Flock tape contracting at the corners. My bad for stretching it too much during application.

As for the laminate and the frame: perfection. The screen is still as flat, waveless, and perfect as the day I hung it. Do yourself a favor, eliminate future headaches, and go with an aluminum frame.
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post #2741 of 2849
7/13/11 at 8:56pm
Thread Starter 
More proof that complex just for the sake of being more complicated isn't always better, it's just more complicated.

Fashion Grey still works as an N8 gray screen, and people really should look at OTS grays. The only way to really know if a complex method works or is even better is to have a baseline and try something as simple as an OTS method. Most people will be amazed how well the simple methods really do perform. Of course people that are advocates of the complex methods will argue about this. Try it for yourself and make your own decision...
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post #2742 of 2849
7/14/11 at 5:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by luebster View Post

Just a quick followup:

I completed my WA DW, 80/20 aluminum QuickFrame installation on Super Bowl Sunday (Feb 6, for the uninitiated). The screen measures roughly 92" wide by 52" tall for a 103" diagonal. If the math is off, don't flame me. I'm at work and don't have the exact numbers in front of me.

I used industrial strength Velcro to fix the laminate to the frame and Goo Systems black Screen Flock tape directly on the screen for the border. 5 months later, the only problem I've had is the Flock tape contracting at the corners. My bad for stretching it too much during application.

As for the laminate and the frame: perfection. The screen is still as flat, waveless, and perfect as the day I hung it. Do yourself a favor, eliminate future headaches, and go with an aluminum frame.

I used white mdf board to build my frame and Fashion Grey for the screen. Attached it with the 3M 90 adhesive I mentioned early. I too used the Goo Systems Black Screen Flock tape. Everything has been going great for 3 years.

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post #2743 of 2849
7/18/11 at 5:27am
So i failed miserably on my first attempt. I glued the inner of the laminate to my frame and when it dried it warped the laminate in a bunch of places. Way too many waves for me to ignore. I was thinking of just ordering a new piece of WA and this time screwing it right over the warped piece. What is the best method of screwing? Where to start, how many (120" screen) Do you guys use washers so u don't risk little indents where the screws pinch the laminate? Any help would be appreciated. Already out $150 for first piece of laminate.
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post #2744 of 2849
7/18/11 at 8:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by the-pred View Post

I was thinking of just ordering a new piece of WA and this time screwing it right over the warped piece.

not unless you want to waste another $150.
honestly this is one of the very reasons/areas that 6mm sintra has a huge advantage over laminate.

if you're gonna build a frame for laminate rather than using a solid substrate... do not... and it's been stress here over and over... not to glue the laminate to the inner frame.

if for some reason you have to do so for support... such as bowing in the middle... then you must use a NON-SHRINKING adhesive... preferably one that is FOAM based.

in fact, my personal tip here is not an adhesive at all... instead... use a bead of foam based insulation/gap filler from a can for the inner supports. it takes a day to cure/dry but once it does... it'll be plenty strong enough to hold the thin laminate and keep it from bowing without shrinking and creating waves.
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post #2745 of 2849
7/18/11 at 11:54am
This time I was not going to glue the inner at all. I was going to try and screw all around the outer and my 2 inch border will cover this. Is this the best way?
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post #2746 of 2849
7/18/11 at 12:49pm
two issues pop out...
1st - the laminate is thin enough to flow the ripples/waves of the laminate underneath it. it might not be as heavy, but it will be there.
2nd - should you choose to use screws you must pre-drill the holes and you must not rachet them down enough to buckle (ie perimeter waves) and/or break the laminate.
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post #2747 of 2849
7/18/11 at 6:15pm
ya definetly pre drill. If it is not glued at all then I can always unscrew if it shows the ripples from underneath.
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post #2748 of 2849
7/19/11 at 12:10am
I had a local laminate shop cut and make my screen for me. The best thing is they only charged me $40. They glued it to 1/2" MDF with contact cement. The most important thing to do they said is to glue a sheet of "backer laminate" to the back of the MDF. This keeps the MDF and laminate from buckling as the glue dries. They also told me to use the iron-on melamine on the 4 edges of the MDF, which I did. I then hung it on the wall with 3 french cleats.
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post #2749 of 2849
7/31/11 at 8:56am
My Laminate screen 92"


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post #2750 of 2849
7/31/11 at 9:02am
What frame method did you use. How did you attach laminate?
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post #2751 of 2849
8/1/11 at 6:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by the-pred View Post

What frame method did you use. How did you attach laminate?

I used wood framing and attached laminate on a plywood board by gluing.
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post #2752 of 2849
8/8/11 at 6:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob7145 View Post
Made a screen to experiment before finalizing the design for the 4 x 8 WA DW awaiting mounting. Others have tried it in the TWH thread. Glued a sheet 1/2" rigid foamboard insulation to the TWH. Lightweight, self standing capable, easily handled by 1 person, From what I learned doing this I will most likely use 3/4" rigid foamboard with a 1" x 4" or 6" wood perimeter frame for the WA DW mount. Instead of hanging the screen it will set on something like a shelf or 2x2 screwed to the wall. Ya, low budget and quick assembly.
Bob7145,

I am considering a similar approach as I have a bunch of left-over 1" and 2" XPS rigid foamboad from my basement finishing. Did you use foamboard glue (such as PL300) or something else?

Also - for anybody who has done a borderless Wilsonart screen - any recommendations from those who have treaded into the borderless lands how much one can/should undersize the frame as compared to the laminate sheet without having problems with the edge?
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post #2753 of 2849
8/9/11 at 6:07pm
Sorry, don't remember what kind of glue but used a caulk gun to apply it. Used the whole tube. Think it was Liquid Nails?

Edit, ya I think it was foamboard glue. The trick is to apply the glue in a pattern that won't trap air. I bought spray glue for the next screen.

2nd Edit: I like the foamboard backed screen because it is light enough to move by myself.
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post #2754 of 2849
8/10/11 at 8:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob7145 View Post
Sorry, don't remember what kind of glue but used a caulk gun to apply it. Used the whole tube. Think it was Liquid Nails?

Edit, ya I think it was foamboard glue. The trick is to apply the glue in a pattern that won't trap air. I bought spray glue for the next screen.

2nd Edit: I like the foamboard backed screen because it is light enough to move by myself.
Thanks Bob - I presume your 2nd screen was not foamboard since I am pretty sure most spray glues will melt the foamboard...

I was thinking with a little work I could spread the glue out into an even thin layer (and make a nice big fun mess at the same time )...your idea of spreading the glue to not trap air might be easier...some tests are in order...

BTW - how do you hang the foam screen? Did you just glue a cleat to the foamboard?
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post #2755 of 2849
8/11/11 at 4:10am
Wait, I never said "spread the glue". I said "pattern".
I used lines and dots. TWH is not laminate but paneling about 1/4" thick. Does not need a lot of support so 1/2 foamboard is enough to stiffen it. You could get glue in a can and use a trowel to spread it but the caulk gun works with TWH and foamboard.
It is a freestanding screen, no cleats, hardware or wood.
Spray glue - ya, could not get an answer from anyone about melting foamboard but have not assembled the WA laminate screen yet. Bought several cans of glue to test.
Lightness and portability of the screen is what I am after.

Edit: I may just glue the WA laminate to the TWH and then Foamboard on the back of the TWH. No melting then.
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post #2756 of 2849
8/11/11 at 9:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob7145 View Post

Wait, I never said "spread the glue". I said "pattern".
I used lines and dots. TWH is not laminate but paneling about 1/4" thick. Does not need a lot of support so 1/2 foamboard is enough to stiffen it. You could get glue in a can and use a trowel to spread it but the caulk gun works with TWH and foamboard.
It is a freestanding screen, no cleats, hardware or wood.
Spray glue - ya, could not get an answer from anyone about melting foamboard but have not assembled the WA laminate screen yet. Bought several cans of glue to test.
Lightness and portability of the screen is what I am after.

Edit: I may just glue the WA laminate to the TWH and then Foamboard on the back of the TWH. No melting then.

I realize you did not suggest spreading the glue - that was my thought...but the more I think about it, the more I like your approach

If you are looking to our the WA over your existing TWH that makes sense...but if doing a new screen then I don't see a reason to add an extra layer.

Foamboard is cheap enough so some glue tests are easy enough. Once I run some tests I will post my results...
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post #2757 of 2849
8/11/11 at 4:52pm
Right, it's just that 1/2" or 3/4" foamboard (the only thing I have access to) is not stiff enough to apply to WA laminate. Your 1' or 2" foamboard is better.
I bought the spray glue for the WA laminate because the caulkgun method would produce wrinkles/waves.
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post #2758 of 2849
8/22/11 at 8:49am
hey folks,

what are the techniques for building laminate screen with wood frame that won't bowed/waved?

i built an 80" screen using 3" pine frame, with 2 vertical bars for support, yet this small screen has too much bowing/waving. i screwed laminate to the frame.

i am now wanting to build a bigger screen, 120" but i think with its size, it's going to have much more wav/bows.

thanks
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post #2759 of 2849
8/22/11 at 1:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

hey folks,

what are the techniques for building laminate screen with wood frame that won't bowed/waved?

i built an 80" screen using 3" pine frame, with 2 vertical bars for support, yet this small screen has too much bowing/waving. i screwed laminate to the frame.

i am now wanting to build a bigger screen, 120" but i think with its size, it's going to have much more wav/bows.

thanks

wood moves with humidity, it's a fact.

I've seen 2 ways that work.
1) have the laminate "float" so it's held with grip but not hard, so as the frame moves/flexes the lamiante won't take a bad buldge, member "larrychief" did that
2) Have the frame constructed so it absorbs the movement. Somewhere in this thread there was a ingenious construction method where the frame end joints were such that they allowed relative movement of the joining member, and not cause the laminate to bow/buldge.

IMO, if you really want laminate , which I really love the picture quality, then use some of the sq alum tub methods/vendors people have posted about.
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post #2760 of 2849
11/12/11 at 9:29pm
I wanted to pass along a thanks to the thread starters here on the Quickframe material on a WA DW screen.

I had been needing to do a proper mounting for my screen for some time. I ordered a Quickframe to my spec, not unlike the 20fan setup, and took a bit from sovremennik's post to use readily available (and cheap - about $4) permanent carpet tape to mount the WA to the frame.

I ordered on Friday and then left town for a couple day work trip and the drop ship Quickframe bits where here when I got back.

The Quickframe goes together like a breeze and is quite solid but light. Tracing the frame on the back of the WA with a pencil provides a tape guide. The whole thing took about 20 minutes to do and it's back on the wall.

Great stuff, Quickframe. I have always liked the WA screen but did not quite have a perfect flat mount - this stuff is it. Perfectly flat, light, simple. Could not have asked for better, and not expensive.

Thanks again.
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