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Laminate Screen Material and Testing! - Page 13

post #361 of 2849
9/21/06 at 8:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by craftech View Post

I asked for 5 x 10 feet and they told me that it only comes in 5 x 12 sheets and NOT in 5 x 10??

John

EDIT: I just called Home Depot customer service and the CSR told me that some stores have different policies than others. He said that the two people in the kitchen department in that store may just be just flat out wrong and suggested that I try a different Home Depot. He also suggested that I go to the special services desk rather than the kitchen department.

When I went to HD, they pulled out a binder that listed what sizes they had available and it had the Wilsonart logo on the top of the sheet. They had everything all the way up to 5'x10' and nothing bigger. The book was in the kitchen area where you can order granite, cabinets, etc.
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post #362 of 2849
9/21/06 at 8:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JosephShaw View Post

When I went to HD, they pulled out a binder that listed what sizes they had available and it had the Wilsonart logo on the top of the sheet. They had everything all the way up to 5'x10' and nothing bigger. The book was in the kitchen area where you can order granite, cabinets, etc.

I had the same experience with Lowes. It took us a while to find the right part number to enter in to the system.
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post #363 of 2849
9/21/06 at 8:56am
When using a router to cut laminates... after cutting, take a file and break the cut edge to avoid the risk of the nastiest paper cut you've ever had. I was once scalped (skin on top of head) by bumping my head while bending down to pick up something under a desk that had a sharp laminate edge exposed.
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post #364 of 2849
9/21/06 at 9:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by derek View Post

Any more tips on scoring/cutting this thing? I was going to pick up a scoring knife at Lowes but would a utility knife do the trick? TIA.

I used my 4' level to mark a straight line across the sheet. I then took a utility knife to lightly score the entire line. I didn't like all the scoring I had to do, so I grabed by tin snips and follwed the scored line. Worked like a charm and took no where near the time that scoring was taking.

Utility knife (sharp new blade), patience, and light repeated passes work just fine.
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post #365 of 2849
9/21/06 at 2:51pm
Hate to 'cut' in (pun intended), but has anyone yet ordered, received and/or tested any of the grays?

mech
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post #366 of 2849
9/21/06 at 4:14pm
Follow up:

I went to another Home Depot and ordered a 5 x 8 foot sheet of Designer White for my dual purpose (16:9/4:3) screen. It cost $85 and $15 for shipping bringing the total to $100 delivered to the store. The Monroe HD kitchen people were either scamming or didn't know what they were doing. I did try going to the service desk to order it as the HD CSR suggested, but they sent me back to the kitchen department to order it.

I'll be able to compare it directly to the Parkland material when I receive it (They said TWO weeks). I LOVE the Parkland screen, but 4 foot tall is the limit. I can't wait. Thanks for everything.

Regards,

John

Also, the reason for the dialog regarding what people are looking at when they watch the movies is because I am going to project both 4:3 and 16:9 material on this screen as is (5 x 8). After my experimentation I am convinced no one will care if the 4:3 material exactly touches the border of the screen or not.
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post #367 of 2849
9/21/06 at 4:58pm
Follow up to my inquiry:

How does the Designer White hold up in ambient light? My wife likes to read while I watch alot of my shows, so there's almost always a bit of ambient light in my theater.

mech
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post #368 of 2849
9/21/06 at 5:00pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by craftech View Post

Follow up:

I went to another Home Depot and ordered a 5 x 8 foot sheet of Designer White for my dual purpose (16:9/4:3) screen. It cost $85 and $15 for shipping bringing the total to $100 delivered to the store. The Monroe HD kitchen people were either scamming or didn't know what they were doing. I did try going to the service desk to order it as the HD CSR suggested, but they sent me back to the kitchen department to order it.

I'll be able to compare it directly to the Parkland material when I receive it (They said TWO weeks). I LOVE the Parkland screen, but 4 foot tall is the limit. I can't wait. Thanks for everything.

Regards,

John

Also, the reason for the dialog regarding what people are looking at when they watch the movies is because I am going to project both 4:3 and 16:9 material on this screen as is (5 x 8). After my experimentation I am convinced no one will care if the 4:3 material exactly touches the border of the screen or not.

That's still more than what my area charges, and takes longer... just goes to show not all stores and parts of the country are 'created equal'... I said this very early on in this thread when I was looking for a large substrate... People that have easy access to this stuff at cheap prices should really be happy about what they got and where they live
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post #369 of 2849
9/21/06 at 5:44pm
This thread is particularly interesting to me because I made my formica screen in early 2003. I posted about it back then when everybody was mixing silver paints and Rustoleum and stuff. Often responses were that hot spotting was prevalent and a bunch of other negative responses. I quietley went ahead and bought my $49 piece of formica from stocked Home Depot items, glued it to a piece of 1/4 inch plywood ($8) framed it with flat black spray painted basebaord moulding ($10) and hung it on the wall.

That was 3 1/2 years ago!

Here's a screen shot from 3 1/2 years ago:



The Panny 300 had just come out and people were building the "Monkey Man" mounts. Myself included!

I don't know why my formica screen was "dismissed" as unworkable/unuseable by many members back then, but, the revived interest is refreshing!

It's durable, completely washable, cannot be damaged or perforated and holds up well! Year after year! I never had any hotspotting issues and the viewing angle is phenomenal! At least with my particular setup and low lumen projector. I used the adia dvd to get the calibration done, and I am satisfied. I woulda had a stroke if someone (kids) threw pillows, toys and/or candy at my expensive 'professional' screen I thought about purchasing but could not justify the cost. Sure, a 'real' movie theater screen would perform better but at the time I had first/second grade children audience it it survive impecably!

No regrets here.
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post #370 of 2849
9/21/06 at 6:51pm
I bought the grey. I still haven't used it yet. Been working on it though. I have it in a frame and put it up tonight. I still have to work on that. I built the shelf for the projector. I am hoping to try it out Saturday but will probobly be more like Sunday hopefully.
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post #371 of 2849
9/21/06 at 6:54pm
Thread Starter 
Midlife that is nothing but positive proof for people interested in going this route.

I asked Clarence, HG57, and Ericglo why this stuff fell into the archives and they weren't sure either. It performs very well... better than Parkland. There is still some that tend to view this as a lesser DIY method even with all the data collected and people saying otherwise. I think it's because it's just so easy it doesn't seem like DIY. If there were premade trim borders, and the laminate came in the desired screen size, there wouldn't be much difference than buying a commercial fixed frame screen... even the commercial screens need to be assembled. The custom paint mixes do work well, but so does this stuff. What I want to start playing with next month is a hybrid screen... a laminate with a top coating. We have such a good base screen here it deserves some tweaking fun too!
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post #372 of 2849
9/21/06 at 6:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SemperFi View Post

I bought the grey. I still haven't used it yet. Been working on it though. I have it in a frame and put it up tonight. I still have to work on that. I built the shelf for the projector. I am hoping to try it out Saturday but will probobly be more like Sunday hopefully.

SemperFi,

Thanks for the response. 1500-60 right? What kind of projector?

mech
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post #373 of 2849
9/22/06 at 10:22pm
Thread Starter 
I got some Formica samples in, one of them is White 949-42 which is the sparkle finish. I don't have my own spectrophotometer so I can't give a professional reading on the colors. I really do want one!

I set my scanner and Photoshop to the CIE color space, but that's not going to be the same as a spectro sample.

Anyway... the sparkle finish isn't just for white, any color can come in this finish. IF it is deemed a viable finish there are grays that can come in this finish too. My observations on it... I am not sure this would make a good screen. It's hard to tell with a sample this small. The texture is much more pronounced than Designer White, so maybe it would defuse light more, but it is a noticeable texture. Unlike Designer White and the Wilsonart grays, you can see this texture up to a foot away. Part of the reason it is more visible is because of the shine/sheen that this finish has. After seeing the HoloDisplay samples, I am rethinking the whole 'stay away from glossy surfaces, the Formica White Sparkle is no where near as glossy as the HoloVega sample... but that is also one of those $2500 engineered screens too...

As far as the Formica Whites... they don't look any better or worse than Designer White. They are do have a smoother finish, which could be why some people with higher lumen projectors have reported some hot spotting. They definitely are worth getting some data on though. Some people are using Formica, and say it works fine. I'm not discounting it, but we have data on Wilsonart and until we get some hard data on Formica I wouldn't feel comfortable about giving it a 100% recommendation. Don't worry though, there will be tests done on Formica and Pionite so we all have a good source of solid proven colors available.
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post #374 of 2849
9/23/06 at 8:17am
Thread Starter 
The finish in bold is what was tested and the data samples taken from for the Wilsonart Samples. This is not saying other finish types won't work, just that no data has been done on them. The goal is to come up with a reasonable list of screen options and provide data on them.

Since people are asking about and bringing up different finishes, here is a list of all of them.


Finishes

Wilsonart
#1 High Gloss
A mirror sheen finish which gives a smooth, brilliant appearance. Excellent for any vertical application. Laminates with a high gloss finish can be used for horizontal application only in light use areas. We recommend that it not be used on horizontal work surfaces such as countertops. Glossometer reading: MD and CD 100 +/- 10.

#7 Textured Gloss
A textured finish which reproduces the high sheen of waxed wood furniture. Recommended for horizontal and vertical application. Available only on those designs for which it is the standard finish. Glossometer reading: MD and CD 36 +/- 3.

#35 Mirage
A lightly textured finish featuring subtle variations in matte and glass, creating the illusion of depth. Available only in the WilsonartHD product line; not available on other patterns or colors. Glossometer reading: MD and CD 50 +/- 20.

#38 Fine Velvet Texture
A smooth textured finish with moderate reflective value. Recommended for horizontal and vertical application. Available only on those designs for which it is the standard finish. Glossometer reading: MD and CD 14 +/- 2.

#50 Touchstone
A pebbled texture with the look and feel of coarse-grained sand. Recommended for vertical and non-writing horizontal surfaces in residential and commercial applications. Glossometer reading: MD and CD 10 +/- 2.

#52 Quarry
Premium finish emulating the pitted look of polished natural stone. Available on a select number of designs only. Glossometer reading: MD 55 +/- 5.

#60 Matte
Textured finish with a moderate reflective quality. Recommended for horizontal and vertical application. Glossometer reading: MD and CD 10 +/- 2.

#90 Crystal
A very finely beaded texture that minimizes smudges and finger marks and improves scratch resistance. Recommended for horizontal and vertical application. Glossometer reading: MD and CD 13 +/- 3.

NOTE: Glossometer readings are made at a 60 degree angle of incidence. MD refers to the machine direction of a laminate sheet, and CD refers to the cross direction.



Formica
Natural (-00)
Non-decorative finish. Available only on Backing sheets.

Brushed (-09)
A classic, linear brushed finish that runs lengthwise on the sheet of laminate, practical for horizontal and vertical surfaces. Available only on selected Authentix Collection items.

Corrugation* (-11)
A uniquely textured, linear matte finish that mimics corrugated cardboard. The ribs have natural variations and run lengthwise on the sheet of laminate. Recommended for vertical or light-duty horizontal applications where cleanability is not an issue.

Weave* (-12)
A slightly raised intricate texture reminicent of fine woven fibers. Available only on selected Naturals Collection items.

Natural Leather* (-14)
Dimensional leather in large scale, with a midrange gloss level that replicates natural leather.

Quilted (-15)
Raised harlequin diamond pattern that runs lenghtwise on the sheet of laminate. Suggested for vertical use due to deep texture. Available only on selected Authentix Collection items.

Quarry Sand* (-41)
A soft-textured, pebbly finish that imparts a warm, tactile effect and enhances the beauty of color. Quarry Sand finish produces clarity and depth resulting in true and vibrant colors.

Sparkle* (-42)
A small-scale textured finish which imparts a brighter, more durable surface.

Artisan (-43)
A look reminiscent of the hand-rubbed, oiled finish used by craftsmen to produce fine wood furniture and surfaces. Not recommended for heavy-duty horizontal applications such as countertops. Available only for selected Woodgrain Collection items.

Punched (-45)
Small embossed square shapes that produce and architectural effect. Suggested for vertical use due to deep texture. Available only on selected Authentix Collection items.

Etchings (-46)
A softly polished and etched surface dappled with highlights from tiny fractures and fissures reminiscent to those found in real granite and stone. Recommended for horizontal applications such as residential countertops and vertical interior applications. Available only on specific stone and granite patterns in the Etchings Finish Collection.

Powdered (-47)
An understated textural, non-directional finish that imparts a suttle glossy finish, multifunctional for horizontal and vertical surfaces. Available only on selected Authentix Collection items.

Matte* (-58)
A finish that imparts a warm, pleasing effect that enhances the beauty of color and produces a greater clarity and depth.

Honed (-77)
A low sheen satin finish with subtle surface clefts and crevices that mimic softly brushed stone. A soft and natural finish that is appropriate for travertines, slates, and river washed granites. Recommended for horizontal applications such as residential countertops and vertical interior applications. Available only on specific patterns in the Honed Finish Collection.

* Polished (-90)
A high-gloss finish ideal for applications that require maximum smoothness and reflectance. Recommended for vertical or light duty horizontal interior applications. Not recommended for heavy-duty horizontal applications such as countertops.

Chemtop2 (-CT)
A finish to resist chemicals, stains, impact, and heat. Available only for selected Chemtop2 Collection items.

MicroDot (-MC)
A low-sheen finish with subtle, with concave circles arranged in a tight grid formation. Suitable for vertical or horizontal usage. Available only on selected Color Portfolio items in the MicroDot collection.

Naturelle (-NT)
Finish that marries a low-sheen with subtle straight grain ticking to create a realistic natural wood look and finish. Recommended for vertical or light-duty horizontal use only. Not recommended for heavy-duty horizontal applications such as countertops. Available only on selected patterns in the Woodgrains Collection.

Riverwash (-RW)
Enhances the look and dry-touch feel of naturalized man-made materials aged to a patina by flowing and running water. Features registered, low lustre, dual gloss texturing to mimic the aggregate stones in concrete and rusted elements in metals. Recommended for horizontal applications such as residential countertops and vertical interior applications. Available only on specific patterns in the Riverwash Finish Collection.


Finish Availability: Not all finishes are available in all patterns/colors. Some finish options have limited size availability. That statement applies to both Formica and Wilsonart.
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post #375 of 2849
9/23/06 at 10:26am
I bought a 5' x 10' Wilsonart Designer White laminate sheet. Would like to make it into a 123" diagonal screen. Haven't committed to a ceiling mounting method yet (it will be free hanging from hooks in basement floor joists.)

Read all about mounting to a wall, which is fine, and sounds like a breeze, but in my case, there's a large picture window in the way, with a shelf projecting out on the bottom, so it has to be hung.

I may just go with the WBassett method of gluing to peg board (so it won't sag) and then build some type of frame around it.

Has anyone any experience with free hanging a thin, laminate screen this large successfully?
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post #376 of 2849
9/23/06 at 11:18am
I also just got a 110" piece of designer white laminate (came 2 days after my first projector - HC3000U). I leaned against the wall, and it shows a good image. Now I've got to hang it to finish the room, and have a couple questions.

Using the pegboard, how are you getting an overlap on both sides of a 96" wide screen? Does the pegboard come wider than 48"? The animation didn't clarify this for me (or maybe I'm just missing it). I'm considering the mirror mounts too.

By the way, I got mine from Menards, price was$83.60 for a 5x8 piece (plus $11 to get it shipped to my house)
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post #377 of 2849
9/23/06 at 11:27am
Thread Starter 
the mirror mounts are by far the easiest looking way to mount it. There are more expensive spring loaded mounts too where the top clips are spring loaded so you can take the screen down easier. By more expensive I mean around $8...

The pegboard requires two sheets to get an edge around the perimeter of the screen. If you want to go with French cleats, the pegboard would work great, but after seeing the mirror clips I think that's the easiest way to go.
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post #378 of 2849
9/23/06 at 11:34am
Thread Starter 
Hey guys check out these sites...

http://www.remotecontrolcurtain.com/
http://www.smarthome.com/3142.html

Not only are these some good prices for some remote automatic curtain systems... I already have wheels turning as far as a remote controlled masking system! I'm sure others out there can put these to good use too...
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post #379 of 2849
9/25/06 at 5:59am
Thanks for all of the testing and info. Laminate is definitely in my future. Anyone have opinions on Designer White or Fashion Grey for this setup?:

Sony VPL-HS51/A, 1200 ANSI lumens LCD Multimedia Projector with 10,000:1 Contrast
(Opinions on a better LCD projector under 3500 are welcome. This one has come down to 1999 recently.)
OR, if the price comes down:
VPL-VW50 (aka Pearl), contrast ratio of up to 15,000:1, 900 lumens

11x22 room, no windows, fabric covered walls and soffits, dark ceiling.
Ambient Light sometimes, but concentrated to the rear 1/3rd of the room (rear seating area), but never any light when the room is used as a theater soley (about 15% of the time.)

Your comments are appreciated.
Thanks in advance,

RP
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post #380 of 2849
9/25/06 at 7:04am
Well, I built my designer white screen this weekend and couldn't be happier. Scoring with a utility knife is a snap, by the way, both literally and figuratively

I made the frame out of 1x4 pine boards, and covered it in a stretchy velvet fabric. I attached mirror hanging looks on either side and just used heavy duty picture hanging wire. I put two molly bolts in to the wall and hung it from there.

I have one little problem in that I made a mistake in how I attached the laminate to the boards, so I ended up not getting it tight enough and there is a little distortion.

It's a simple fix, though - I just have to take the screen down, undo the screws and reattach it, being more careful. I didn't bother yesterday because I was sore and tired from making it and I just wanted to enjoy football all day (go Seahawks).

Thanks to everyone who helped in this thread, as I ended up with a great looking screen for about $150 all told. I'll get some pictures up soon. Final dimensions ended up being about 100x56, plus the three and a half inches on all sides for the frame.
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post #381 of 2849
9/25/06 at 9:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SixkillerNYC View Post

Well, I built my designer white screen this weekend and couldn't be happier. Scoring with a utility knife is a snap, by the way, both literally and figuratively

I made the frame out of 1x4 pine boards, and covered it in a stretchy velvet fabric. I attached mirror hanging looks on either side and just used heavy duty picture hanging wire. I put two molly bolts in to the wall and hung it from there.

I have one little problem in that I made a mistake in how I attached the laminate to the boards, so I ended up not getting it tight enough and there is a little distortion.

It's a simple fix, though - I just have to take the screen down, undo the screws and reattach it, being more careful. I didn't bother yesterday because I was sore and tired from making it and I just wanted to enjoy football all day (go Seahawks).

Thanks to everyone who helped in this thread, as I ended up with a great looking screen for about $150 all told. I'll get some pictures up soon. Final dimensions ended up being about 100x56, plus the three and a half inches on all sides for the frame.

SixkillerNYC,

What type of projector are you using?
Any ambient light? If so, how does the designer white hold up?
Where do you purchase? Cost?

Thanks!

mech
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post #382 of 2849
9/25/06 at 9:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mech View Post

SixkillerNYC,

What type of projector are you using?
Any ambient light? If so, how does the designer white hold up?
Where do you purchase? Cost?

Thanks!

mech

I'm using a Mits H3000U.

There's some ambient light during the day from two windows on the side of the room. Right now I have light filtering blind on them, but I'm going to put blackout roller shades behind the blinds to reduce the light.
The ambient light does wash out the picture if it's really sunny out (the sun shoots right through those windows), but once I put the shades on I don't think I'll have any problems.

The Laminate doesn't appear to be as high gain as I was expecting, but it looks fantastic. espceially once the sun went down, the picture was bright and vibrant. I still need to calibrate the projector - right now it's jsut some seat of the pants settings based on what I thought looked good. Before i was throwing against a wallt hat had been painted taupe. I had the projector on full bright to get a good iage. Now I can set the lamp mode to low and turn the brightness way down to get really good blacks.

I paid a little over $100 for a 5x10 sheet from lowes. The wood was 4 1x4x10 pine boards that ran me about $20, and the fabric was 4 yards and was about $25.
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post #383 of 2849
9/25/06 at 10:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SixkillerNYC View Post

I'm using a Mits H3000U.

There's some ambient light during the day from two windows on the side of the room. Right now I have light filtering blind on them, but I'm going to put blackout roller shades behind the blinds to reduce the light.
The ambient light does wash out the picture if it's really sunny out (the sun shoots right through those windows), but once I put the shades on I don't think I'll have any problems.

The Laminate doesn't appear to be as high gain as I was expecting, but it looks fantastic. espceially once the sun went down, the picture was bright and vibrant. I still need to calibrate the projector - right now it's jsut some seat of the pants settings based on what I thought looked good. Before i was throwing against a wallt hat had been painted taupe. I had the projector on full bright to get a good iage. Now I can set the lamp mode to low and turn the brightness way down to get really good blacks.

I paid a little over $100 for a 5x10 sheet from lowes. The wood was 4 1x4x10 pine boards that ran me about $20, and the fabric was 4 yards and was about $25.

Thanks!!

I have the same projector and I'm using a piece of parkland now. The parkland washes out from basically any light hitting it. I'm kind of on the fence waiting to see how a light gray laminate performs with ambient light.

mech
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post #384 of 2849
9/25/06 at 12:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adi View Post

I felt that whites are blown out. So, took a few pics and compared analyzed in Photoshop. No doubt, lighter shades of grey are non-existant on Designer White.

Probably due to the higher gain of the DW. BOC is typically unity gain, even the stuff sold on ebay that says 1.3 usually measures ~1.0. If the Designer White is 1.23 gain, you're getting 23% brighter whites (and other high IRE shades).

Did you adjust your brightness and contrast levels? Do you have Avia or Digital Video Essentials? Or even the "THX Optimizer" in the Setup Menu on any THX DVD (like The Incredibles or any Star Wars DVD) is pretty good for calibrating B&C.
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post #385 of 2849
9/25/06 at 3:27pm
Hello,

Has somebody tried the Pionite "White Angel"? Compared with the Wilsonart "Designer White D354-60", it looks like the same white, texture is even more flat and it's less expensive...
But what about the image quality?????

Thanks
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post #386 of 2849
9/25/06 at 4:01pm
Well I finally got a picture up on the grey today. I had some other problems so didn't get a great look but for what I am trying to do, I am very satisfied with the results. The sun wasn't real bright today kind of cloudy but picture was nice. If I can get my other stuff ironed out I will be in great shape.

I have a piece of the material left that I cut off roughly 1 foot x 5 foot. Wbassett I was wondering if you would like a bigger piece to experiment with.
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post #387 of 2849
9/26/06 at 9:05am
I wrote this in response to a Pm and I think might help others so I'm going to repost it here.

I bought 4 1x4 pine boards and carried them home. I then used a manual miter box (just a plastic guide with a saw you can get at Lowes for $8) and cut the ends of each board to 45 degrees at the correct spot. So now I had four boards with 45 degree cuts on the ends. Two were 106" long, the other two were 63".

Then I layed them out on the fabric I bought and cut the fabric in to strips, leaving an inch or two on either side of the board. I used a good staple gun and attached the fabric to the board, stapling once on one side, then once on the other and working my way down. Wrapping the fabric around the corner was tricky and messy, but as long as it was tight on the front I didn't care.

Then I took metal brackets and attached the boards together, just using wood screws directly in to the wood. Then I laid the laminate down on the back of the fram and used those same wood screws to attach the laminate.
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post #388 of 2849
9/27/06 at 3:41pm
Here's my screen frame:


Here's the screen before masking (that happens tonight):

I accidentally punched a hole inside of the frame with the drill when I was installing the screws, but it's fortunately covered by the masking.

The masking laid on the screen, and some extra cloth, which I wrapped around the aluminum frame instead of painting it:
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post #389 of 2849
9/27/06 at 4:39pm
JosephShaw, First, that looks really impressive how you mounted your laminate. But a couple questions: where did you get that square aluminum tubing? And what kind of cost do you have into the screen mounting with that?
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post #390 of 2849
9/27/06 at 5:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JosephShaw View Post

Here's my screen frame:


Here's the screen before masking (that happens tonight):

I accidentally punched a hole inside of the frame with the drill when I was installing the screws, but it's fortunately covered by the masking.

The masking laid on the screen, and some extra cloth, which I wrapped around the aluminum frame instead of painting it:


Nice work, JosephShaw! I presume you're using 1" sq aluminum tubing? Can you estimate how much the frame weighs and how rigid is it? I want to construct a similar frame except I plan to pivot mine from brackets on the wall so that it swings up to the ceiling and out of the way when not used. BTW, what material are you using for the screen?
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