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Laminate Screen Material and Testing! - Page 18

post #511 of 2849
10/6/06 at 8:11am
After reading the thread, I realize that DW is not the ideal screan for a room where there may be some ambient light. However, would the use a fairly bright PJ, like the new Panny AX100U, offset the ambient light issue? I'm a noob, and I am trying to figure all this HT stuff out.

I was looking at getting the panny 900 with a fixed screen, but if I can get a good screen at a low cost, I figure I can upgrade the PJ to the 100.

This HT will be used for DVD movies, HD and SD TV, and HD and SD gaming, both during the daytime and at night. It will be in a basement, so I can control sunlight pretty well, but there will be times when the lights are on.

So would the new Panny 100 + the DW be reasonable in this scenario? Or should I be looking at the Greys?

One final consideration (not the most important, but would help with the WAF) I have is how it looks when not being used. I assume DW would look nice, with the greys looking not quite so nice. Any opinions/responses appreciated.

Thanks!!

Mark
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post #512 of 2849
10/6/06 at 9:03am
Thread Starter 
What is WAF?

Ambient light means a lot of things... sunlight, room lights... I am able to watch movies with a room lamp on, but I am also hitting the screen with 32-34 fL of image brightness. This is a tricky topic as we all in here saw with someone that mistook people saying in their setups they could have some lights on as DW is an ambient light screen. I would be able to watch a movie with that same lamp on with a white commercial screen with 1.2 gain too most likely. So it's not the screen material in this instance as much as it is the conditions. During the day with sunlight pouring in... can't watch a thing with my setup.

We are hoping to get some feed back from people actually field testing Fashion Grey, so if you're not in a rush wait and see how the results for them come back then you have some options to better make a decision.

Bill
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post #513 of 2849
10/6/06 at 9:44am
Bill-
Wife Approval Factor -j
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post #514 of 2849
10/6/06 at 9:46am
Thread Starter 
OH DUH! lol
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post #515 of 2849
10/6/06 at 9:56am
I've been using my DW screen for a few weeks now, and I'd caution anyone who has ambient light issues against the material. I love my screen, don't get me wrong, but I've needed to take additional steps to control the light in the room to make sure it's useable during the day.

At night when I can really get it dark the screen is spectacular.
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post #516 of 2849
10/6/06 at 10:19am
Thread Starter 
Daytime is really the killer.. I'm trying to talk my wife into us getting some window film to put up. Not that I watch it during he day, but I'm sure it would help late afternoon/early evening.

Sixkiller... can you at least have a dimmed lamp on in the room at night? When I am alone I have the lights out, I just like it that way, but yes my wife likes a little light sometimes...
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post #517 of 2849
10/6/06 at 11:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wbassett View Post


We are hoping to get some feed back from people actually field testing Fashion Grey, so if you're not in a rush wait and see how the results for them come back then you have some options to better make a decision.

Bill

Not in a big rush, gonna be a month or 2. How does Fashion Grey look unlit?
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post #518 of 2849
10/7/06 at 6:46am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stangm View Post

Not in a big rush, gonna be a month or 2. How does Fashion Grey look unlit?

This is Fasion Grey


If you really want to get fancy, and this is what I am going to try down the road, there is a pretty slick remote controlled roller system What I want to do is get wall mural wall paper or an art print and put it on the roller. When the screen isn't in use I will lower the mural and it will look like a framed art print

I don't know if I will get to playing with that until after Christmas though, have to spend $550 for heating oil and then it's holiday time, so any major screen expenses have to wait.
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post #519 of 2849
10/7/06 at 8:12am
Bill,

Is that a pic from wilsonart or is it a piece that you have?

Still waiting for anyone with some pics and comparisons of Fashion Gray with ambient light....


mech
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post #520 of 2849
10/7/06 at 8:49am
Thread Starter 
That's from their site, I don't have my samples anymore because I sent them off to be analyzed. If I scanned the actual piece it would look pretty close if not the same looking at it over a computer monitor.
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post #521 of 2849
10/7/06 at 10:24am
Bill,

How big was your sample? Big enough to get an idea what it would look like? Any pics?

Thanks,

mech
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post #522 of 2849
10/7/06 at 10:32am
Thread Starter 
All the samples I got were 3x5. Ericglo has done some screen shots with the samples that size. The colors and gain looked good to me, but to really make sure we need a full size sheet tested. Those little samples are really hard to tell how a whole screen will look.

As I said before though, it is the same darkness as Silver Screen but doesn't have the blue push like Silver Screen. So if you like that shade of gray then it should be fine. Some people though don't like grays at all, it's a matter of preference and viewing conditions. Fashion Grey also has a respectable gain for a gray. It's still less than 1 but actually a little better than a Grayhawk from the gain tests, so it is a very interesting material and color.
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post #523 of 2849
10/7/06 at 12:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SixkillerNYC View Post

I've been using my DW screen for a few weeks now, and I'd caution anyone who has ambient light issues against the material. I love my screen, don't get me wrong, but I've needed to take additional steps to control the light in the room to make sure it's useable during the day.

At night when I can really get it dark the screen is spectacular.

About 95% of the time it will be just my wife and I in the basement where 100% darkness is not an issue. Every now and then we will watch something with someone else where it would be nice to have full lights on.

One of the things I have been considering is making a screen that is reversible.

I believe that I am going to order a DW sheet, and then paint the back of it with something that will work well with Ambient Light. I'll then frame it in such a manner that I can reverse the screen. 95% of the time I'll just use the DW, when I need full light, I'll just reverse the screen. he only reason I am waiting, is that if dove grey works out, I could possible just mount the DW and grey back to back with no painting and have an ultra-durable, reversible screen.

The only thing I haven't put much thought into is how I would attach my rope light for ambient viewing light. I turn mine on every time I watch my projector. I am amazed that more people don't do this.

GL
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post #524 of 2849
10/7/06 at 12:39pm
Thread Starter 
GL that is a very interesting approach... I kind of envison it as a screen where the border is on both sides with the laminate sandwiched between them and then you just flip it for the change in lighting conditions, is that what you have in mind? Very smart if it is
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post #525 of 2849
10/7/06 at 12:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wbassett View Post

GL that is a very interesting approach... I kind of envison it as a screen where the border is on both sides with the laminate sandwiched between them and then you just flip it for the change in lighting conditions, is that what you have in mind? Very smart if it is

The "sandwich" was one thought, the other was to groove the frame such that the laminate(s) could be inserted into them. In that manner you'd only need one frame and could keep the weight down (making it easier to flip). This would obviously be much more difficult, though, I'd imagine this type of screen would last for years and years so I'd be willing to shoulder more expense, time, and difficulty to make a screen with such durability and versitility.

I haven't put much thought into it beside the fact that I would like to do it. Since I can't find a DW in stock around here, I will likely get a Frosty White and whatever grey I can find and buy a 2x4 sample of each to experiment with. I might even try to build a screen around the 2x4 samples just to see if I can adequately construct one.

GL
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post #526 of 2849
10/7/06 at 3:46pm
I got the "your order has arrived and is available for pick-up" phone call today a little after 1:00pm. My face lit up like a christmas tree. I grabbed my keys and my order paper work and drove to HD to pick up the fashion grey laminate panel. First I went over to lumber, found and cut the frame pieces, bought some mirror mounting clips, a miter saw and other necessary frame building odds and ends. I decided to buy all that stuff first, put it in my car and then go back to the special order desk and pick up the laminate. There were only two people in front of me at the special service desk, but it was still about 20 minutes before I was helped. I gave the girl behind the counter my last name, she looked up my order for a couple minutes and then traipsed off out of view for a while. I heard her asking someone if they had seen my order, and a few seconds later she walked back into view carrying a roll of DESIGNER WHITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I couldn't believe it. It must have showed on my face that I was not happy because she asked me if there was something wrong right away. I told her it was the wrong color, she double checked the order and confirmed that it was, indeed, the wrong color. So sorry, we'll order it again and call you when it comes in.

I wish Home Depot had a mouth so I could punch it.
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post #527 of 2849
10/7/06 at 3:51pm
Just received a sony Pearl and plan to order both BW and FG to see how each perforem with a SXRD PJ. I wonder since PJ's loose quite a bit of lumens quickly what impact will this have on my experience. I am assuming that FG will look better when the bulb is new but am I right to think that over most of the bulbs life BW would be a better choice in a totally light controlled room? Thanks
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post #528 of 2849
10/7/06 at 5:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FremontRich View Post

I went back to Lowes yesterday and checked out the laminated white pressboard and here's the official description:

Thrifty White Smooth Panelboard, 48" x 96" x 1/8" thick. It has a dull (matte?) finish. Price $11.84. Since I'm a newbie on laminates I have no way of comparing this material to Wilsonart Designer White or Pionite or Do-Able or Formica.

If that's the stuff made by Decorative Products Inc. then you want no part of it. I have a sheet of that stuff and it didn't look glossy at the store but as soon as I fired up the projector it was like a mirror... hotspotting doesn't begin to define it. The other problem is that it scuffs easily and I went through most of a stack and still brought home a piece with blemishes.

I got a sheet of DW for $77 total at the local HD and have to admit this is some seriously nice stuff! My screen is mounted in front of a boarded-up window so I needed rigidity so I mounted a 49x83" piece onto a piece of 3/4" MDF using the A600 adhesive Wilsonart sells at HD that appears to be rubber cement. It was easy and I did it by myself. I then countersunk some holes through the screen and mounted it to the window frame using drywall screws.

My first impression was "holy crap that's bright!". I was able to turn my contrast down from the 65 I used on my blackout cloth to 48... tubes should last forever like that In fact, when I first turned it on I thought the hot spotting was going to be a problem but after I turned it down it became hard to notice, though I still faintly see a weird color shift on my white windows desktop if I really look for it. No biggie, though I do wonder about hotspotting with 5 bajillion lumens coming from a single lens on a digital projector. I have little experience with screens but I think that's what I'm seeing. Overall... two thumbs up with a giant grin of anticipation when I hear the HV kick on

I'm working on an MDF casing border wrapped with some cheap black velvet stuff i found at walmart. I'll post some pics when I'm done.
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post #529 of 2849
10/7/06 at 7:55pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by buttsplice View Post

My first impression was "holy crap that's bright!". I was able to turn my contrast down from the 65 I used on my blackout cloth to 48... tubes should last forever like that In fact, when I first turned it on I thought the hot spotting was going to be a problem but after I turned it down it became hard to notice, though I still faintly see a weird color shift on my white windows desktop if I really look for it. No biggie, though I do wonder about hotspotting with 5 bajillion lumens coming from a single lens on a digital projector. I have little experience with screens but I think that's what I'm seeing. Overall... two thumbs up with a giant grin of anticipation when I hear the HV kick on

That's the gain you're seeing
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post #530 of 2849
10/7/06 at 9:08pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickmo View Post

I got the "your order has arrived and is available for pick-up" phone call today a little after 1:00pm. My face lit up like a christmas tree. I grabbed my keys and my order paper work and drove to HD to pick up the fashion grey laminate panel. First I went over to lumber, found and cut the frame pieces, bought some mirror mounting clips, a miter saw and other necessary frame building odds and ends. I decided to buy all that stuff first, put it in my car and then go back to the special order desk and pick up the laminate. There were only two people in front of me at the special service desk, but it was still about 20 minutes before I was helped. I gave the girl behind the counter my last name, she looked up my order for a couple minutes and then traipsed off out of view for a while. I heard her asking someone if they had seen my order, and a few seconds later she walked back into view carrying a roll of DESIGNER WHITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I couldn't believe it. It must have showed on my face that I was not happy because she asked me if there was something wrong right away. I told her it was the wrong color, she double checked the order and confirmed that it was, indeed, the wrong color. So sorry, we'll order it again and call you when it comes in.

I wish Home Depot had a mouth so I could punch it.

I wonder if this is because Wilsonart is starting to get a lot of orders for Designer White in sheets 5x8 or 5x10 and they didn't think and just shipped. I haven't spoke to them in awhile, but I have to touch base with them about a few things anyway so I'll ask if they are seeing increased requests for the larger panels in Designer White. If they are, maybe we can get a deal going. NO not a profit deal... but a better price since we are ordering a lot from them. Formica may be up for this because they are even more enthusiastic than Wilsonart, not that Wilsonart hasn't been extremely open and helpful.
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post #531 of 2849
10/7/06 at 10:21pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by briocoffee View Post

Just received a sony Pearl and plan to order both BW and FG to see how each perforem with a SXRD PJ. I wonder since PJ's loose quite a bit of lumens quickly what impact will this have on my experience. I am assuming that FG will look better when the bulb is new but am I right to think that over most of the bulbs life BW would be a better choice in a totally light controlled room? Thanks

Briocoffee we are trying to finally start getting legitimate data and gain specs on the various methods in here. Not just laminates, but testing and research across the board (Lots of exciting stuff happening in DIY now). We don't have gain tests in for the various paint mixes, and there are some new and exciting mixes being worked on... gain tests and color analysis are coming on them though. The laminates are an undeniable excellent one step solution that performs as well as mid end commercial screens. Some may say even higher, but that would require some very closely controlled comparison tests.

What I like about it is it is very simple to install, not a whole lot different than a professionally made fixed frame screen. It is more expensive than Parkland, but I tend to think it performs better though. Do-able is an excellent and very inexpensive material, but it has size limitations, and we don't have gain tests back on Do-able yet. I really think we need some color analysis and gain tests on Do-able for those wanting a screen sized 48x85. If it performs at the same level as Designer White, that would be awesome data to report on.

Still at $100 or less depending on the size sheet you buy the cost vs performance for laminates and specifically Designer White is an extremely good value. It always dumbfounds me when someone spends $1000 or even $2000 or more for a projector and then they don't want to spend more than $20 for a screen, and expect it to perform like a $2000 screen. I'm not saying DW will perform like a $2000 screen, but it does have very similar specs that a Studio Tek 130 has. I would say the ST130 would perform better if tested side by side but I am not sure the performance would warrant spending $1,500 or more vice $80-$100 on DW. I really would like to see them side by side.
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post #532 of 2849
10/8/06 at 9:30am
I would assume that spending $1500 / $2000 will likely at least for a while result in better performance then a $200 or less DIY screen. I also agree that as the difference becomes difficult for the novice to appreciate and the ease of use of a DIY screen approaches that of a fixed panel professional screen more and more people will choose a DIY screen. I was about to buy a $2000+ Stewart SST but after reading your thread changed my mind. Thanks! I do not mind spending even $700 for a goo screen assambled by someone else, if it is considerabley better then a BW screen -any thoughts on which would out preform the other? Thanks for the reply.
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post #533 of 2849
10/8/06 at 9:55am
Brio,
I don't see the screen manufacturers screens as that much better that $2k will be better than $200. It just depends on what your doing. I could buy a quart of Barium Sulfate, mix it with my coating and spray a piece of MDF or whatever and have a better screen surface than any manufacturer. My screen is smoother than the Stewart that I have seen.

I think DW is plenty good for the price. I think the difference between most of the white screens is marginal.

Ericglo
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post #534 of 2849
10/8/06 at 9:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by buttsplice View Post


I got a sheet of DW for $77 total at the local HD and have to admit this is some seriously nice stuff! My screen is mounted in front of a boarded-up window so I needed rigidity so I mounted a 49x83" piece onto a piece of 3/4" MDF using the A600 adhesive Wilsonart sells at HD that appears to be rubber cement. It was easy and I did it by myself. I then countersunk some holes through the screen and mounted it to the window frame using drywall screws.

My first impression was "holy crap that's bright!". I was able to turn my contrast down from the 65 I used on my blackout cloth to 48... tubes should last forever like that In fact, when I first turned it on I thought the hot spotting was going to be a problem but after I turned it down it became hard to notice, though I still faintly see a weird color shift on my white windows desktop if I really look for it. No biggie, though I do wonder about hotspotting with 5 bajillion lumens coming from a single lens on a digital projector. I have little experience with screens but I think that's what I'm seeing. Overall... two thumbs up with a giant grin of anticipation when I hear the HV kick on

I'm working on an MDF casing border wrapped with some cheap black velvet stuff i found at walmart. I'll post some pics when I'm done.


Butt,
You could have put a horizontal curve in it to mitigate some of the hot spotting. I am not sure if you can do it now, but it would help.

Ericglo
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post #535 of 2849
10/8/06 at 3:43pm
FWIW, I just saw an advertisement watching the Eagles/Cowboys game for Lowes that claimed 20% off on laminate flooring. From their website:

20% Off All Special Order Flooring All Carpet, Ceramic, Vinyl, Wood, Laminate and Area Rugs*
*Offer valid 10/2/06 through 10/21/06.

Is the 5x10 sheet considered flooring? If so, I may have to go pick up a sheet of DW & FG well prior to the arrival of my projector.
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post #536 of 2849
10/8/06 at 4:10pm
No, laminate flooring means Pergo etc.

WilsonArt also makes laminate flooring, but the 4x8 or 5x10 sheets could never be used for flooring, so I really doubt you could talk your way into a 20% discount.
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post #537 of 2849
10/8/06 at 6:03pm
Got started on the frame this weekend. I'm using 1"x3" poplar boards. The plan is to use mirror clips to hang it on the living room wall, after wrapping it in some kind of light-absorbent black material (suggestions welcome), of course.

I can't include pictures until I've submitted five posts. I think I'm at 3.
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post #538 of 2849
10/8/06 at 6:16pm
Ok, so here they are:



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post #539 of 2849
10/8/06 at 6:31pm
I'm really interested in a laminate screen because of a 6 month old granddaughter, and probably more coming. I'm waiting for the Mitsubishi 3100HC, anyone have any availability info? I posted earlier about an idea to put DW on one side and Fashion gray (or some other more ambient light friendly finish) on the other side. Anyone have any FG experience yet.

Another question: I'd consider a paint for one side. I've read alot about Goo, MM Mud, etc. What I don't understand is what importance is there in the base coat if it is covered by the top coat? Also, why mirrors as a substrate? Unless the topcoat is somewhat clear or opaque. If the topcoat is not opaque and is solid, why can't any primer, like kilz, go under the Goo?

wbassett - any insight?
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post #540 of 2849
10/8/06 at 8:15pm
I received my samples from Wilsonart - Designer White and Gray (1500-60. The DW is whiter than my BOC but what surprised me is that DW and the Gray samples are not smooth - they have a textured finish!
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