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Focal - JM Lab Owner's Thread - Page 112

post #3331 of 5757
4/11/09 at 6:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpu8088 View Post

perhaps consider the higher models sc05 or sc07?

the ice power will provide more details, less heat and cleaner sound

agreed....
If you have money to spend, upgrade your receiver and feed the speakers a stronger, cleaner signal.
Your speakers should still sound great with the right power. I don't think the word 'outdated' applies to speakers; there are alot of vintage speakers that still sound fantastic....as long as they are driven cleanly.
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post #3332 of 5757
4/11/09 at 6:36am
I was asking a question about my speakers.. If they needed to be updated or if they were fine?

So you think That A VSX-03TXH and Two Emotiva XPA 3 amps is a waste and to go buy a SC05 or SC07, Please explain your Theory?
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post #3333 of 5757
4/11/09 at 8:33am
there is nothing essentialy wrong with them--if they sound good to you then there is no need to upgrade--they are good speakers--imho having heard them a few years ago I think that there are gains to be had from some of the newer models but if you like them the way they are then i definitely see no absolute need to upgrade.
cheers
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post #3334 of 5757
4/11/09 at 9:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goingpoor View Post

I was asking a question about my speakers.. If they needed to be updated or if they were fine?

So you think That A VSX-03TXH and Two Emotiva XPA 3 amps is a waste and to go buy a SC05 or SC07, Please explain your Theory?

From what I've read and experienced myself, you'll get a much great gain from better speakers than better amps. Some people also say that you should first take care of room acoustics.

I've heard very distinct differences in sound between various speakers, but with electronics, I've heard only small, sometimes very subtle differences. Without doing a DBT, I can't even say if those differences were "real" (although I suppose you could argue that if I "think" I hear differences, they are "real" to me).

Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is that given that same cost, I would put the money into better speakers than electronics. That said, I haven't priced out what you're thinking of buying. It could be that the amount you're talking about isn't enough to get you a distinct upgrade speaker-wise. If so, the electronics upgrade would be a good way to go, since they should serve you well with any future speaker upgrades.
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post #3335 of 5757
4/12/09 at 10:19am
I guess having heard my speakers through 2 different receivers and hearing a noticeable difference, I would like to see Goingpoor play with the electronics first before taking the huge plunge and buying all new speakers. I would hate to see him go to the expense, get everything setup, then being a little disappointed with the end product.
I don't think downgrading the receiver was the right move. In this case, he sacrificed sound quality for function. Having said that, perhaps adding the Emotiva amps will in fact improve the situation. That might be the logical first step....to see if the amps make a difference.

Its easier to swap electronics as opposed to speakers. I don;t know how good his dealer(s) will be with letting him try out gear and returning it, but that would be ideal.....give things a trial run in-home.

Of course upgrading your speakers will make a difference. I just think that the Cobalts are good speakers and should be given a chance with the right gear. I've learned in my limited time in this "hobby" that MATCHING is the most important thing. Having speakers that outclass your electronics or vice versa will just leave you wanting to upgrade all the time. Then you are leap-frogging until your bank account gets awfully light.
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post #3336 of 5757
4/12/09 at 12:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by acopeman View Post

I guess having heard my speakers through 2 different receivers and hearing a noticeable difference, I would like to see Goingpoor play with the electronics first before taking the huge plunge and buying all new speakers. I would hate to see him go to the expense, get everything setup, then being a little disappointed with the end product.
I don't think downgrading the receiver was the right move. In this case, he sacrificed sound quality for function. Having said that, perhaps adding the Emotiva amps will in fact improve the situation. That might be the logical first step....to see if the amps make a difference.

Its easier to swap electronics as opposed to speakers. I don;t know how good his dealer(s) will be with letting him try out gear and returning it, but that would be ideal.....give things a trial run in-home.

Of course upgrading your speakers will make a difference. I just think that the Cobalts are good speakers and should be given a chance with the right gear. I've learned in my limited time in this "hobby" that MATCHING is the most important thing. Having speakers that outclass your electronics or vice versa will just leave you wanting to upgrade all the time. Then you are leap-frogging until your bank account gets awfully light.

i think with the avr and emotiva amps the sq will be fine the things i worry most about is the noise floor, dac, and processing--i have had a hard time with noise with pioneer avr's (in particular but not the newer sc series that i havent heard yet--also that was while the amps were engaged so i dont know if it was a preamp problem, amp problem, or both). i do suspect that if the pioneer avr were swithed out for an emotiva or outlaw prepro hed have a very well matched and balanced system. just my HO.
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post #3337 of 5757
4/12/09 at 7:26pm
I'm greatful for all the responses... When I purchased the VSX-03 I had the option to purchase the SC-05. I just didn't think 550.00 more for one extra HDMI port, ICE Amp Section ( was planning to use external amp), 1 Extra Zone, and a ethernet port was worth it. According to Pioneer they both use the same processor.

So what Reciever do you think I should be using? I was Going to purchase a Rotel but was concern because it did not have room correction.

Going From my yamha RX-V2600 to the pioneer, I gotta say the pioneer is so much clearer and alot more detail. When I started my first post My main concern was if its worth buying a new set of cobal 806S with stands and used them to turn my 5.1 into a 7.1 system. I can get them for a steal.. And then add two external amps.

It was a concern of wasting money on a discontinued speaker line if I should be buying a complete New setup.. I purchased these speakers 4-5 years ago.
and just wonder if I'm missing out on better sound
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post #3338 of 5757
4/12/09 at 7:32pm
i heard both the pioneer and the rotel, i gotta say the rotel has the upper hand
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post #3339 of 5757
4/12/09 at 7:42pm
The problem with the Rotels, is that they are plagued with issues. Check in the Rotel thread.
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post #3340 of 5757
4/13/09 at 2:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goingpoor View Post

I'm greatful for all the responses... When I purchased the VSX-03 I had the option to purchase the SC-05. I just didn't think 550.00 more for one extra HDMI port, ICE Amp Section ( was planning to use external amp), 1 Extra Zone, and a ethernet port was worth it. According to Pioneer they both use the same processor.

So what Reciever do you think I should be using? I was Going to purchase a Rotel but was concern because it did not have room correction.

Going From my yamha RX-V2600 to the pioneer, I gotta say the pioneer is so much clearer and alot more detail. When I started my first post My main concern was if its worth buying a new set of cobal 806S with stands and used them to turn my 5.1 into a 7.1 system. I can get them for a steal.. And then add two external amps.

It was a concern of wasting money on a discontinued speaker line if I should be buying a complete New setup.. I purchased these speakers 4-5 years ago.
and just wonder if I'm missing out on better sound

i guess a question to ask is what kind of budget you have.
from there, perhaps we can determine the best use of the funds.
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post #3341 of 5757
4/14/09 at 9:30am
Since my newly bought 1027be are used for both 2 channel and for my home theater, should I set the 1027be as large or small speaker in the av processor? When I used the 726v, the speakers were set to small and crossed-over at 60hz.

BTW I just bought a used cc1000be and I'm expecting delivery later this week. should the cc1000be be set to same setting as the 1027be?
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post #3342 of 5757
4/14/09 at 12:30pm
unless your speakers are using 16" plus bass drivers like grand utopia em you should set speakers as small
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post #3343 of 5757
4/14/09 at 12:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpu8088 View Post

unless your speakers are using 16" plus bass drivers like grand utopia em you should set speakers as small

I don't agree with that 100% i know where your coming from but... if they can handle the 60hz signal by all means give set them to large, i am running Parasound electronics and the speakers i have are large... i am waiting on my first shipment of Focal... i usually do large for the fronts and a center (again if it can handle it) and small for the rear.

It really depends on the speaker and the sub... but you don't needs massive drivers to have to run large
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post #3344 of 5757
4/14/09 at 1:05pm
get good subs and you will hear the big difference.
parasound amps do not pair well with focals in my opinion
it is your system not mine. suit yourself
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post #3345 of 5757
4/14/09 at 1:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpu8088 View Post

get good subs and you will hear the big difference.
parasound amps do not pair well with focals in my opinion
it is your system not mine. suit yourself

Hmm, Subs make a big difference its true
I love Parasound with Focal i think its a killer combo but to each his own
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post #3346 of 5757
4/14/09 at 4:23pm
I have my Profile 918's set to 'small', and crossed over at 100Hz. (still tinkering though)
When I had them at 'large', sometimes i felt the bass was bloated, especially with deep bass recordings.
The way i figure, let the sub do its job, and let the Focals do what they do best....mids and highs.

As far as the centre goes, it should be small too. If your AVR lets you set the x-over for different speakers, i would set it even higher...120-140. That speaker needs to focus on dialogue, no sense giving it the extra burden of mid/low bass.
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post #3347 of 5757
4/15/09 at 2:23am
If your fronts don't go down to 20Hz and you expect to watch films, set them to small. Also, the paper specs of the speakers very rarely agree with the in-room response you will see. In the last incarnation of my home theatre (now moved) where I tinkered, my Chorus 816's seemed to work best with a crossover of 90Hz - I used Audyssey on my Denon to help spot the major peak at 70-80Hz of the front right, and so when using the system to stereo without Audyssey it was best to let the sub take the strain on the lower freq.

At the end of the day though, it's your ears and your pleasure centres that should dictate the final setup.
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post #3348 of 5757
4/15/09 at 4:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by acopeman View Post

I have my Profile 918's set to 'small', and crossed over at 100Hz. (still tinkering though)
When I had them at 'large', sometimes i felt the bass was bloated, especially with deep bass recordings.
The way i figure, let the sub do its job, and let the Focals do what they do best....mids and highs.

As far as the centre goes, it should be small too. If your AVR lets you set the x-over for different speakers, i would set it even higher...120-140. That speaker needs to focus on dialogue, no sense giving it the extra burden of mid/low bass.

I agree that the center should be set to small, but the x-over at 120-140 is much too high especially for the cc1000be. A x-over of 60-80 is more ideal unless they are small satellites. Why would center like the cc1000 be designed with it's quality drivers and be x-over at at a higher frequency. There is more to the center channel than just dialogue and most subs can't react fast enough due to their large speaker and playing 5.1 audio.
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post #3349 of 5757
4/15/09 at 6:30am
big/small is a misnomer. should be full range and non full.

if you test with track 5 of gladiator you will notice difference of voice from russell crowe which go below 100hz.

the idea to set speakers as small is to lighten the demand on the amplifier such that high frequencies can be clearer and less strain to control sub bass.

should try crossover point at 50 60 70 80 90 100 to hear differences
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post #3350 of 5757
4/15/09 at 7:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpu8088 View Post

big/small is a misnomer. should be full range and non full.

if you test with track 5 of gladiator you will notice difference of voice from russell crowe which go below 100hz.

the idea to set speakers as small is to lighten the demand on the amplifier such that high frequencies can be clearer and less strain to control sub bass.

should try crossover point at 50 60 70 80 90 100 to hear differences

I'll give it a try. Thanks
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post #3351 of 5757
4/15/09 at 9:07am
60 to 80 will do

make sure your sub volume not hot otherwise it will overwhelm the mids and highs
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post #3352 of 5757
4/15/09 at 3:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronrags View Post

I agree that the center should be set to small, but the x-over at 120-140 is much too high especially for the cc1000be. A x-over of 60-80 is more ideal unless they are small satellites. Why would center like the cc1000 be designed with it's quality drivers and be x-over at at a higher frequency. There is more to the center channel than just dialogue and most subs can't react fast enough due to their large speaker and playing 5.1 audio.

after reading your post I did a little research on the vocal range of the human voice. Serves me right for not verifying the statements of others. When I posted the 120-140 Hz x-over, i was apparently going on some bad information. I found, of course, a few different sources that gave different answers. The one I chose to go by is a textbook on the science of phonetics.
So.... i stand corrected. My apologies.

I have since lowered my x-over from 100 to 80 to more accurately reflect the study results in that textbook. I didn't think the human voice went down that low. I doubt any intelligible words exist in the sub-100 range, however we humans make many sounds other than speech, so the change is made.

With red face I take my lumps.



In case anyone is curious....
http://books.google.ca/books?id=us7F...um=7#PPA127,M1
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post #3353 of 5757
4/15/09 at 4:06pm
How does the 1027 BE compare to the bookshelf version? Is the extra cost worth it? Considering a really nice pair of 1027 BE on ebay for around 4700.

Any inputs would be appreciated. Thanks.
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post #3354 of 5757
4/15/09 at 5:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriege View Post

How does the 1027 BE compare to the bookshelf version? Is the extra cost worth it? Considering a really nice pair of 1027 BE on ebay for around 4700.

Any inputs would be appreciated. Thanks.

Here is a link to audiogon where there are 2 1027be listed for around $4000. Since the 1007be bookshelves are listed for $4500, the 1027be for $4000 is a great bargain. I just purchased my 1027be on there for more but it was worth the investment.


http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/srch_fs.pl
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post #3355 of 5757
4/15/09 at 6:09pm
1027be is a veyry different speaker--much better midbass which balances out the tweeter better imho--both very detailed though. 1027's most underrated feature is its midbass in my ho and the 1027 does it in warm fast and heavenly melifluous musicality. not that the 1007 is a slouch though!
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post #3356 of 5757
4/15/09 at 6:12pm
[quote=acopeman;16274310]

With red face I take my lumps.
QUOTE]

there is no censure here, only understanding apprecite all your contributions to this thread
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post #3357 of 5757
4/15/09 at 6:27pm
acopeman

we participate here is because we all can learn something. even you can benefit from heated arguments which bring out extreme views if back with proper reasoning.

why nat king cole sounded differently from elvis? it is the harmonics. with male vocals at 150hz the lower octave will be 75hz. sure with 75hz you want it to come out from your center not the sub, just an example.
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post #3358 of 5757
4/15/09 at 7:06pm
yep, i learned alot =)
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post #3359 of 5757
4/17/09 at 3:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by acopeman View Post

agreed....
If you have money to spend, upgrade your receiver and feed the speakers a stronger, cleaner signal.
Your speakers should still sound great with the right power. I don't think the word 'outdated' applies to speakers; there are alot of vintage speakers that still sound fantastic....as long as they are driven cleanly.

completely agree with this; my SC-07 manages to get beautiful sound out of my 1037Be's....
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post #3360 of 5757
4/17/09 at 8:52pm
i would have thought the sc09 would be even better for the 1037be
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