Focal - JM Lab Owner's Thread - Page 170

Hola everybody!

I desperately wanna share with you that i have recently purchased a pair of Chorus 726V piano black and i'm very excited about them! I actually fell in love the first i saw them -they remind me kind of French dark nights of the Renaissance, an i very happy to have them in my living room.

My problem is that i like very mush their sound, but i haven't enjoyed them at home because of my crappy AV, Yamaha RX-V671 (i auditioned them in the store with a Vincent integrated with hybrid tube pre-amp, don't realy remember the model).

So i'm in the pursuing of happiness again looking for a sweet, warm integrated amp to pair them as my companions to our musical journeys. I m looking for a budget powerful amp and i have heard good words about the great value for money of XTZ Class A 100 D3 (witch i m very excided also because i have managed to auditioned at my home with my speakers this weekend! ) and Xindak devices (never heard of them playing). I have auditioned (not in my speakers) Creek Evolution 2 witch i liked very much and i think that is close to the sound that i want to have and a pair of Advance Acoustics 206+406 witch i think it was a bit "shiny" for my taste.

So i m all ears to hear your recommendations for a budget 600-800 Euros integrated amp to pair with 726V in a 30m2 Living room.
I also have to mentioned that HT Passtrought will be a great plus, and i m intrested more for an integrated dac than a phono stage.

Thanks in advance

Cheers

Jolida-JD-302BRC. List price is $1200, but can be found discounted or used. I got mine for 750 and am powering a pair of Focal Electras.

The 302BRC has a pre-amp bypass which is the mode I use it in. I have a Yamaha rx-V667 -> 302BRC -> 1007Be.

hello focal experts! i recently made an impulse buy for a pair 714v's could not resist for the price. quick question, i already have a pair of 807v's as my mains, but now that i got these i dont know which to leave as my mains. what do you guys think is better for mains? my room is 12x12 and i'm running them with a crown xls 602.

One thing to add about the Jolida 302. There's been a some variations produced, 302B, 302RC. It's my understanding that only the latest 302BRC model has the bypass mode control.

I would use 714v's as mains for sure.
You can use your 807v's as surrounds as I do.

Hi & Thanks for your answer.

I have checked for Jolida here in Greece but unfortunately i cant find any retailer.

So you suggesting a tube amplifier for "warm" sound right?

I m not sure if i m ready to go to that option (even if the specific recommendation sounds very promising for a pure tube amp with 50W/C Rated output! ) because i m not a tube expert. I would be very interested to hear your setup!

I also want the power of a transistor amplifier. I have thoughts for some hybrid integrated amplifiers (eg Xindak XA6950(09), XA6900, XA620) with tube phono and transistor power amp stage, and i m looking forward to auditioned them.

Yes, I like the tube sound, you get a smoother presentation and they look cool. Honestly the focals sound pretty good just on the AVR. One very strong plus with Focals is you don't need much amp to drive them, so no need to spend big sums on watts. The Jolida puts out plenty. That being said I would like to try a 200 watt amp to see how it compares.

can you elaborate as to why you think the 714's aré better? I just opened the boxes and they aré small towers. From specs the 807's should be better? Thanks for your input

I didn't have a chance to hear 714v's myself. I thought that they are floorstanders and would be better suited for mains. Specs do not always reflect real world results. I suggest you do a simple comparison on your equipment. It's hard to tell which speaker will sound better in your particular room.

I recently purchased a pair of JM Labs Electra 920.1's. I know very little about these speakers and can't find much about them on the internet. Does anyone know the manufacturing years for these? I also need to find a set of grills for them any ideas? Thanks

Just returned the XTZ A100 D3 i was having this weekend for test purposes.

The overall experience was great A100 is a great piece with great raw power, very detailed sound, excellent build quality and many more.

I m a bit skeptic (to decide to buy it and pair it) in the reproduction of the voices and especially in the high frequencies. I want your true experience about this: All the owners of Chorus 7xx series are you happy with the reproduction of voices or is my idea that the 726 are a bit shiny? I mean the speakers are perfect and i have just to look for the correct amp to hear warm voices and get rid of that stupid "ssss" in the end of the words?

Please help...

If you are having problems with Sibilance (the "ssss" at the end of words), it is probably due to your source and/or DAC, not the amplifier. The Focal inverted dome tweeter is definitely detailed, and will reproduce the sound that it is fed. I have two DAC's; W4S DAC-2 and the built in DAC in McIntosh C48 Preamp. The W4S DAC-2 is highly rated, and very detailed, but it has one flaw... it can be a bit sibilant. When I switch to the C48 built-in DAC, I don't hear the sibilance anymore, but I loose some of the detail. Overall, I tend to like the W4S DAC better.

I can tell you that they started making them in 1999. I would guess they stopped in maybe 2001. I think that is when the Electra 926, 936, and 946 came out. You best bet for finding grills is to contact Audio Plus Services.
http://www.audioplusservices.com/contactus.htm
Contact technical support. But they are kind of old so you may have to get lucky and search on line.
I found a few reviews on line and they all seem to be positive ones.

Thanks for the tip, I will investigate this but what can i say...

My main sources for music are the cd at the photo (Philips CD 753) connected to the amplifiers dac (both Yamaha 671/XTZ A100 have internal dac) through cooxial Monster Cable. The effect was the same (of course XTZ had greater sound overall). The effect stays the same even if i change the connection to RCA (tested only with Yamaha) and even if i play FLAC to Yamaha. Of course if Yamaha's DAC has quality issues, sound will stay the same...

I am not familiar with the Phillips CD 753 or the XTZ A100, so can't really say too much. Both seem to have good reviews and positive comments in the forums, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are good, or have good synergy with Focals.

Maybe you should take your CD player to the store where you bought your speakers, and try it through the Vincent amp you listened to when you bought the speakers. Then you will know whether it is the source that is introcucing sibilance, or the XTZ A100 amp is not good match with Focals.

I have only heard Focals through much higher powered amps with high end preamps. I have Mcintosh/Spectron driving my 826Ws at home, and in the store, I listened to several Focal speakers (including the 806V bookshelf) powered by 1000 WPC Bryston monoblocks from a BAT preamp. I think the extra power really helps in bass extension which provides the warm, rich sound. Also, the preamp has a huge impact on sound, so maybe the preamp in the A100 is bright. Before I bought the McIntosh/Spectron, I was using a Rotel RSX 1550 AVR, and I wasn't happy with the sound.

I own a pair of 806's and love them. I have owned Polk, jbl, and even Martin Logan in the past but I find the focal to image well and bring out sounds in music that I never noticed before. A+

1000 watt Bryston's and 806v's. Gotta love that. I really like how my Bryston 4b-ST(300 watts) takes hold of my 1027's. I think there is a good synergy between the two companies.

Round 2. Just returned the Greek Evolution 2 i was having this weekend for demo.

The sound was incredible (at low/normal volumes). Warm and sweet vocals, detailed but not tiring high frequencies. I realized that even the 700 series has to be careful paired with amps -and actually their a bit selective- to show their full capabilities.

My problem is that as the volume rises the mid/highs where tend again to get "harder" and "shine". I m not sure if it was power issue (creek claims 75W/c @8Ω) or some instability in the character of the amplifier because the volume was at the middle of the capability of the amp and the sound was very loud. I return it to the store and they suggest me to look at the bigger model 5350 (120W/c @8Ω vs Evo2, and price 1200+ Euro vs 750 Euro of the Evo2)

Music is a cruel mistress...

Not sure how loud you are trying to go with 75 wpc. If sound is becoming hard and distorted, then you are driving the amp into clipping, which is very bad for speakers. A lower power amp will only produce good clean sound up to a limited volume. If you want louder, then you need more power. It is good to keep in mind that 3dB increase in volume requires double the power.

Well i cant describe how loud, but i can tell you this to get an idea.
Creek Evolution 2 has a volume option from 0 to 80.

Sound from 20 to 30 was great and volume was ok from most listening purposes. When i was setting volume to 40 to enjoy maximum presence of music the mid/highs was tending to get harder and the sound excellence was not the same.

On the other hand XTZ A100 D3 was "hard" to mid/highs from the start but didn't have any alteration of the sound at high volumes! It sure had some power to give (and i was only listening to A Class = 50W/c @8Ω while the amp can give in AB 110W/c @8Ω, 180W/c @4Ω and 300W/c @2Ω!). That means that in terms of power is a perfect match for a demanding speaker like Chorus 726 but it doesn't says much about the tone, and the "musicality" of the reproduced sound. I think that if i had more "soft" speakers in high frequencies i will be very happy, and the issue is that Chorus tend to be "bright" and need their amp mach to be chosen very carefully...

Anyone else taken their grille covers off the tweeters on your Chorus'? Reading a review on Stereophile.com and it was highly recommended to give better sound quality. They come off pretty easy.

http://www.stereophile.com/content/f...speaker-page-2

I have my grills of on my Electra's tweeter as well. I don't put them off and on so I really can't remember what the sound like with them on but they sound great as is. I am lazy to put them off and on and the less I mess with the Be tweeter, the better. But I don't doubt it.

I have a pair of Focal Chorus 716s and my experience is very similar to yours. Originally, I ran a little NAD integrated 25 watt/channel. I thought that I was running out of amplifier power. Then I borrowed a 125 watt/channel Parasound amp and I had the same problem. Always when the volume got north of 80db.

Ultimately, I have come to the conclusion that in my room those speakers (maybe most speakers) are going to sound a little hard when I turn the volume up. My room as a lot of reflective surfaces (hardwood floors, uncovered windows, leather furniture). From the photo it looks like you have tile floors and maybe a good bit of glass. You might be in the same boat I am.

I've had luck improving the sound by adding a rug, curtains, sound treatments, etc. you might try to explore some solutions in that realm.

Innersense, I agree with the treatments suggestion that designmule said. That may be all that is needed to help you tame your room and get the most out of your speakers. When I treated my room, even though I did not think my speakers sounded harsh, the sonic improvements were very easy to hear. You may want to try that first. A rug and curtains would also help but dedicated room treatments would probably be a place to start.

Mine are off. My room is awful so I can't hear the difference.

This is a great idea, I'm gonna try it right now. Simple and affordable tweak. LOL!

Give Simaudio a try if you have a dealer near by.

I just paired my 836Ws with a used simaudio 600i, it's a match made in heaven.

Now, I want to find a set of 1028be's used.

After reading your post, I thought I would try cranking up the volume on my system. I think I know what you are saying. At higher volumes (loud music by my standards, but not rock concert loud), the Focal tweeter does tend to sound a bit sharp. So, I swapped in my Totem Sttafs that I also own, and the sound wasn't quite as sharp, but there still was an edge at higher volumes. The Sttafs have Silk Dome tweeters that are a bit more mellow, but overall sound from the Totems isn't nearly as good as Focal 826W.

I think all modern Hi Fi speakers can tend to sound a bit bright, especially with modern solid state equipment and digital (CD) music. People want lots of detail, but along with detail comes a certain edge. My friend has the new Linn Isobariks along with Linn Akurate electronics, and I find the sound way to bright and harsh for my tastes, but he loves the detail. I can tell you that Linn speakers are an order of magnitude more edgy than Focals. I always found Focals to sound warm and full compared to a lot of other speakers I've listened to.

You may want to try a few of the following suggestions:

1. Move your speakers further apart, and adjust toe-in to intersect just behind listening position. I originally had my speakers on either side of an entertainment console like yours, but I moved them further apart with more toe-in, and I found this made a significant improvement, especially as I upgraded to better electronics that would still maintain an image with speakers further apart. The only rule I've read is that listening distance from speakers should be equal to or greater than distance between speakers. I have mine almost 10' apart, and my preferred listening seat is approx 12' from the speakers. Wilson Audio, who use Focal Tweeters, have always promoted a set-up like this with lots of toe-in. As a matter of fact, I think Wilson recommends that the angle of speakers should intersect just in front of the listener.

2. Try an integrated amplifier with a tube preamp or buffer. If you can find a used BAT VK-300x integrated, I am sure you would be amazed. I really like BAT preamps and amps, but they are fairly expensive. The 300x is around $7500 USD new, but I have seen them for less than 1/2 that price on Audiogon. The VK-300x has remote and home theatre bypass. I brought one home on demo when I owned Gallo speakers, and it is an exceptional piece.

3. You might also want to look at Prima-Luna integrated tube amps. They are relatively low powered, but they seem to be able to drive significant speaker loads. I was told that tube power is different than solid state power in that tubes can deliver better peak output even at fairly low continuous power ratings. Prima-Luna is a Netherlands company, so probably good availability in Europe. I have heard Prima-Luna in one of the Hi-Fi shops in Vancouver, driving Quad ESL's and the sound was excellent. I also heard the Prima-Luna with PMC speakers, and they sounded really good. Unfortunately, have not heard Prima-Luna with Focals.

4. For budget integrated, I have read really positive things about Virtue Audio's Sensation with Dodd Tube Buffer. I have never listened to any of the Virtue Audio equipment, but for the price, probably worth a try.

5. Another budget integrated that gets really good reviews is Wyred 4 Sound (W4S) STI-500 and STI-1000. W4S uses Bang and Olufsen ICE amplifier modules, that they specially modify for their products. I have a Spectron Class D amplifier, and I am happy with sound when paired with McIntosh preamp. W4S has all the features you are looking for including remote and HT bypass.

Hope this helps.

If you have your tweeter covers off, you could just try putting them back on. They should tame the highs a bit.

Now I am not sure about the removal of the tweeter covers. But I do keep mine off. I find that the 1038be II's look better with the grills off. As far as sound its still up for debate.
I agree with the the previous poster on the tube suggestions. I too am looking at the PrimaLuna tube pre-amp. I demo'ed them at a local dealer and they sound exceptional.