Focal - JM Lab Owner's Thread - Page 184

Hi,

I have another dilemma, that I need your help with. As mentioned before I acquired a Focal 5.1 home theater set-up. (836V, CC800 SW800 and 806V) The problem I facing now is lack of space for the rear surround speakers (806V). I have a couch that takes up a lot of space and has to be placed right next to (touching) rear wall.

I can't have the speakers positioned in a way, that I wold achieve the recommended orientation angle according to the listener. So the best I can do is place the speaker facing perpendicular to the listener (90deg. angle).

So now I wanna now what would be the best thing to do. To leave the speakers the way they are ?

Or maybe go form 5.1 to 7.1 and use the 806s as additional front speakers and place something smaller at the back (something like Focal little bird speakers) ??

SheepS,

In a typicall 5.1 system, the surrounds are just slightly behind the listener and mostly to the sides like in these diagrams:
http://www.audioholics.com/images/img1.jpg
http://static.commentcamarche.net/en.kioskea.net/pictures/audio-images-configuration-spatiale-5-1.png

As you can see, if the speakers are approximately in line with the back of the couch which it sounds like you would be able to do with your room? (Or am I not understanding your room correctly?)

Goodluck,
Mike

[edit]
FYI: I recently changed my surround speakers to SR800V from 716S to free up some floor space.
Unfortunately, the right surround needed to mount about 12 inches forward from the left surround speaker's location because of a hallway. (I used to have the 716S sitting just inside the hallway for the best placement, but I had to sacrifice optimum placement in order to change to the wall mount speakers.)
Overall, I am happy with the wall mount speakers even though they are not perfectly placed.
[/edit]

Yes Mike you understood me correctly, ... The best thing I can achieve is to have the speakers positioned at a 90 degree angle. So you think I shouldn't worry to much ?

And thanks for your answer

The surrounds are supposed to be in that position. It should be an improvement, not something to worry about.

Assuming you use some form of room EQ, remember to run it again after relocating your surrounds.

Yup. you should be good to go.

A few pages back, I asked if anyone knew about the availability of the Macassar finish for CC 1008 Be and 1038 Be speakers. In case anyone else is interested, Focal does "on demand" finishes for a 20% extra charge. It turns out that the 1007 S's that I got from Music Direct are not only Macassar, but they have a special glossy black finish with "speckles" in the finish that Focal apparently did custom for Music Direct and Focal is going to match that too with no further charge beyond the 20% extra. I ordered the CC 1008 Be earlier this week and will order the 1038 Be's when the budget has recovered enough to pay cash for them. Hopefully our bonuses will be good at work this year to help expedite this .

Picked up a pair of 1028be's at what I think is an incredible price today ($5000/pr) at a dealer closing down one of their locations. They were demos, but flawless.

Replacing a Chorus 5.1 setup. I want to keep my Yamaha RX-A2000 receiver for it's video and input capabilities, what's the best way to do this? Just use the RX-A2000 as a preamp to a more powerful amplifier?

How's the break-in going? Someone once told me Focal Be tweeters break-in time is >500hr.

Someone gave you bad info. If the tweeter has any break in time at all, it's certainly less than 10% of what you were told. Personally, I doubt the break in time extends much if any past factory testing.

Have you owned or do you own any speakers new from Electra 1008Be series?
Edited by kzhtoo - 1/30/13 at 4:17pm

I've owned Focal Be tweeter speakers in the past, though I'm not sure why that would be important.

Speaker break in after the first few hours is really the listener adjusting to the speaker, not the speaker's output changing. Woofers with larger suspensions and physical cone travel may take slightly longer, perhaps up to 50 hours. There's no technical rational for a tweeter to take more than 500 hours to break in.

So did you buy them new?

Instead of playing 20 questions, please get to the point.

So far, all you've said is that "someone once told you" that the Beryllium tweeter takes over 500 hours to break in. Was this "someone" speaking based on detailed knowledge of the driver in question and describing a specific technical reason they believed their claim to be true? Did they present measurements or evidence of controlled testing to demonstrate changes in the tweeters output after more than 500 hours of break in?

Focal aside, I've yet to see evidence presented that any tweeter demonstrates audible performance changes after 500 hours due to "break in"

Edit: I just reread the OP and the speakers purchased were demo units, so any questions about break in on that pair of 1028s are moot.

Basically you've never bought Focal Be new and/or experienced through its break-in. Why are you answering something you don't know? Go away.

Why can't you provide any additional info? Speaker manufactures have very clear numbers on exactly how long any real driver break in period should last.

I have also purchased a floor model of a Be tweeter speaker. No not Focal. They were well broken in, but there was still a personal adjustment period when I was still getting used to the sound.

Lol. I'm not the one who asked a member who bought demo speakers about break in. Nor did I say whether I'd bought Focal new or not.

Regardless, there is established science in play here. I don't need to jump off a cliff to discuss gravity, nor do I need to own any specific speaker to understand the physics of the largely mythological "speaker break in" of its tweeter.

I asked you several questions about your source of information. Interesting that instead of addressing some legitimate queries, you want to run away from the discussion. Frankly, you've demonstrated no personal knowledge on the subject, but hey, believe what you wish. I can only lead you to the water - it's up to you to drink it.

Have you bought Focal Be tweeter equipped speakers new yourself? If so, lets see the out of the box and post 500 hour measurements that validate your position.

Discussion? LOL AVS is polluted with guys like you, know-it-all armchair engineers who talk out of their bottoms. Quite possibly you've never owned or even heard Focal Be. If you don't have first hand experience of the matter, again, stay away!

Not that I feel the need to say this but..I've bought 1008Be used and stayed with them for awhile, now 1028Be new breaking in at about 360 hours. The said breaking in tweeters not only haven't been up to the old 1008Be yet, also they are now sound much better than when they were at 100 or 200 hours marks. Woofers on the other hand seem to have fully broken in after 200-250 hours.

Guys, no need to get angry or mean, just look on the focal website and download the manual as a pdf:
http://www.focal.com/en/electra-1000-be-2/209-electra-1028-be-3544053695099.html

Here is the info from the manual that says 20 hours to several weeks:

Running-in period
The drivers used in the loudspeaker are complex mechanical devices and require run-in period before they deliver their best
performance. They must get adapted to the tem-perature and humidity conditions of their environment. This breaking-in
period depends on the encountered conditions and can last several weeks. In order to shorten this period, we advise you
to let your loudspeakers operate for about twenty hours at medium level, playing standard musical programmes, but with a
large amount of bass.
Once the components of the loud-speakers are completely stabilized, it is possible to enjoy the real performance of your
loudspeakers.

I'm glad you value your over active imagination over facts and science. Other than your biased personal observations, have any measurements or even theory to support your claims.

As I said before, I've owned Focal Be speakers in the past and have extensive listening time with the full range through the Utopia Grande. A simple search of this very thread would validate that. So far, you've refused to answer any of the questions I've asked you. I suspect the reason is you don't know the answers which is interesting considering how sure of yourself you appear to be.

Since you felt free to insult me, please share your background in this field and your knowledge of audio engineering that led you to the conclusion that the Be tweeter takes over 500 hours to break in.

So Focal's position is to play the speakers for 20 hours using their model of playing music to stabilize the speakers. So much for the 500 hour claim, unless we are now going to accuse Focal's engineers as "talking out their bottoms" as well....

The dealer I bought my 807Vs from a few years back said they needed 6 months of regular listening to break in. I was somewhat skeptical, however, I was so impressed with the sound he was getting out of them in his shop I give it some merit. Indeed they were somewhat harsh in the beginning. And it's difficult to judge small changes from day to day. I bought my 1007BEs used and don't recall much breaking in. Anyways, whether it's breaking in the drivers or the ears it doesn't really matter, I think you need some time on a pair of speakers to fully evaluate and enjoy them.

6 months? Did you have a five month, three week return window from the dealer?

If it is biased observation, shouldn't it be that I want them to have no break-in at all!? Who here doesn't want whatever they buy to sound great right out of the gate? It's common sense but I guess you'd need your measurement (which btw has been argued countless times not to be everything in this hobby) to understand these.

What is there to answer? It's silly enough engaging in this nonsense argument of yours. I've owned 1008Be and now 1028Be, that's a lot more than what you can say on the Focal Be break-in.

If you get rude (swooping in on a matter that you don't know and started your armchair engineer mumbo jumbo), it's pretty justified to receive an insult or two, bro.

Last, Focal says "This breaking-in period depends on the encountered conditions and can last several weeks. In order to shorten this period, we advise you to let your loudspeakers operate for about twenty hours at medium level". And you get the break-in is 20 hours??? hahaha

Lol, I think he actually said 200 hours and I just figured an hour a day or something and got 6 months. I've heard he's pretty cool about returns/tradeups, etc. The systems he put together at his shop sound amazing, so his opinion carries some weight. I'm sure some of it is salemanship but a man's gotta eat.

Whoa, didn't mean to spark this!

As far as break in, they were demos so they had about 50 hours on them, and I think they sound pretty good. I've probably added another 10. I wasn't going to do much past that.

And as a follow up I purchased an Anthem PVA-2, also off demo, and am using my Yamaha as a pre-amp.

Thanks for the info. In my experience, HT sounds great for awhile now, it's in 2-ch music that 1028Be still have yet to get that last bit of refinement (esp. upper mid/ low high) that I experienced with the old 1008Be.

I'm not your bro. And you clearly don't understand what the term "bias" means regarding personal sighted observations.

Now you want to argue that the Focal engineers are wrong as well, and again, you present no evidence.

The Focal statement is clear and is also focused on bass, not treble as I stated earlier. It takes 20 hours to break in the speakers. It could be 20 consecutive hours or it could be 1 hour a day for several weeks - still 20 hours total no matter how you want to parse the comment.

You accuse me of being an "armchair engineer", yet your evidence presented to date is that "someone once told you" that the Be tweeters take more than 500 hours to break in and that your own casual and unstructured observations show the same. Neither of which constitutes a simple fact.

Focal is clear on this topic and they hold the same position I do. If you think you know more about break in than the Focal engineers, so be it. Either way, you aren't making any case, let alone a compelling one. Perhaps you should try somewhere like Audio Asylum where they believe in unicorns and fairy dust rather than science.

Please explain how the speaker "knows" the difference between HT and stereo signals?

A lot of this you go on personal experience, a subjective interpretation does not lend itself to evidence. And despite Focal's official statement, there are some that think differently.

And for the HT thing, he probably means you don't notice it with video because your listening level isn't as refined when you watch video.