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Focal - JM Lab Owner's Thread - Page 186

post #5551 of 6419
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

For the third and last time, Mike's Focal info does not suggest that the tweeter in a three way, four way, or million way speaker takes any longer than 100 hours. The higher figures describe Focal's break in estimates of the mids/woofers/subwoofers. NOT THE TWEETER.

As for your 500 hour claim, in this very post, you claim your tweeters aren't broken in after 400 hours. This is in direct conflict with the Focal information. You have no supporting evidence other than what "your ears tell you" which has been proven to be an utterly useless way to assess audio information due to the limits all humans have regarding audio memory.

BTW, how are the tweeters in the 1008 and 1028 the same, given that the 1008 has a 1" tweeter and the 1028 has a 1.25" tweeter, which can be confirmed at Focal's web site rolleyes.gif The crossover between the tweeter and the mid is at 2500hz in the 1008 and the crossover on the 1028 is at 2200hz rolleyes.gif Yeah, you really know the product line well and have credibility....

Regardless, you have your unicorns and I have science, physics, and Focal engineers. Everyone can make their own decisions from there.

Sigh...1008Be also has 1.25" tweeter (anyone who's familiar with this line knows that). The info, obviously, you just looked it up is from new Focal website. I remember old Focal website showed 1.25". It can be two things. 1) typo 2) Focal changed their later 1008Be products to have 1" instead of 1.25". All the old reviews of 1008Be (see below links) that came out previously all stated it is 1.25" or 27mm. Maybe someone else can confirm this? This guy apparently JUST LOOKED IT UP! rolleyes.gif

http://www.theaudiobeat.com/equipment/focal_electra_1008_be.htm

http://www.canadahifi.com/Focal_Electra_1008_Be_II_Loudspeakers_review.php

http://www.avhub.com.au/images/stories/australian-hifi/reviews/2012/2012-03/focal_electra_1008_be2_loudspeakers_equipment_review_lores.pdf

BTW, I love unicorns. What's not to like? tongue.gif
post #5552 of 6419
Quote:
Originally Posted by kzhtoo View Post

Sigh...1008Be also has 1.25" tweeter (anyone who's familiar with this line knows that). The info, obviously, you just looked it up is from new Focal website. I remember old Focal website showed 1.25". It can be two things. 1) typo 2) Focal changed their later 1008Be products to have 1" instead of 1.25". All the old reviews of 1008Be (see below links) that came out previously all stated it is 1.25" or 27mm. Maybe someone else can confirm this? This guy apparently JUST LOOKED IT UP! rolleyes.gif

http://www.theaudiobeat.com/equipment/focal_electra_1008_be.htm

http://www.canadahifi.com/Focal_Electra_1008_Be_II_Loudspeakers_review.php

http://www.avhub.com.au/images/stories/australian-hifi/reviews/2012/2012-03/focal_electra_1008_be2_loudspeakers_equipment_review_lores.pdf

BTW, I love unicorns. What's not to like? tongue.gif

Yes, I looked it up, something you should have done before claiming the tweeters are the same. Is the different crossover a typo by Focal as well?

We're done.
post #5553 of 6419
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

Yes, I looked it up, something you should have done before claiming the tweeters are the same. Is the different crossover a typo by Focal as well?

We're done.

Funny guy. LOL I said "tweeter/midrange are the same". I didn't even talk about the crossover. See what I meant by posts getting twisted?
post #5554 of 6419
I had a look at the data sheets Focal supplies for 1008be and 1028be. The data sheets (attached below) show the same tweeter (27mm) and crossover (2200Hz) for both speakers. I think Focal has some typos on their newly redesigned webpages.

fp-1008-be.pdf 366k .pdf file

fp-1028-be.pdf 1644k .pdf file
post #5555 of 6419
Quote:
Originally Posted by steinram View Post

I had a look at the data sheets Focal supplies for 1008be and 1028be. The data sheets (attached below) show the same tweeter (27mm) and crossover (2200Hz) for both speakers. I think Focal has some typos on their newly redesigned webpages.

fp-1008-be.pdf 366k .pdf file

fp-1028-be.pdf 1644k .pdf file
And that's one of their selling points - that you can freely mix and match the various 10x8 Be models in a surround sound system and get a seamless result because the crossover points and tweeters are the same.
post #5556 of 6419
I am going to try and verify but if I remember a talk I had a long time ago, Focal doesn't design cookie cutter drivers that can just be swapped into any speaker even if they are the same size. What I mean is, just because the 1008 and the 1028 may have the same size tweeter and midrange driver, does not mean that they are the same drivers. They would be designed differently. What I mean is I don't think they design one version of the Be tweeter or one version of the midrange driver and just put them into what ever speaker design they are making. They are totally different. Hopefully I can get conformation on this. If and when I do I will post it. Regardless if I am right or wrong.
post #5557 of 6419
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

I am going to try and verify but if I remember a talk I had a long time ago, Focal doesn't design cookie cutter drivers that can just be swapped into any speaker even if they are the same size. What I mean is, just because the 1008 and the 1028 may have the same size tweeter and midrange driver, does not mean that they are the same drivers. They would be designed differently. What I mean is I don't think they design one version of the Be tweeter or one version of the midrange driver and just put them into what ever speaker design they are making. They are totally different. Hopefully I can get conformation on this. If and when I do I will post it. Regardless if I am right or wrong.

This doesn't make any sense from an economy of scale / interchangeable parts perspective. Many other speaker makers buy drivers from Focal as well and make their own cabinets. You can also buy the same drivers to put in your car. The best ones are quite expensive.

http://www.crutchfield.com/shopsearch/focal_be.html
post #5558 of 6419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tank_PD View Post

This doesn't make any sense from an economy of scale / interchangeable parts perspective. Many other speaker makers buy drivers from Focal as well and make their own cabinets. You can also buy the same drivers to put in your car. The best ones are quite expensive.

http://www.crutchfield.com/shopsearch/focal_be.html
You may be right. I was just going on memory from a talk I had with the East Coast rep for Focal. I also know that the car speakers very expensive. I knew that other speaker companies also used Focal drivers but I don't think that is a big part of their business any more. Now, I think, they mainly make drivers for them self. For ex. Wilson used to use the Focal tweeter but Focal stopped selling them so Wilson was forced to design their own. I know that Focal does all their own stuff in house. They even have a machine shop where they can make tools specifically for their own needs in their R&D department.
post #5559 of 6419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tank_PD View Post

This doesn't make any sense from an economy of scale / interchangeable parts perspective. Many other speaker makers buy drivers from Focal as well and make their own cabinets. You can also buy the same drivers to put in your car. The best ones are quite expensive.

http://www.crutchfield.com/shopsearch/focal_be.html
Check out this description. Go down to the "Customized Drivers" section. Here it though if you don't want to click the link.
"Customized Drivers
Focal is one of only a handful of manufacturers who make their own drivers. Focal is the only manufacturer we’re aware of that makes different woofers for every single model of their speakers. At last count, Focal had 192 different drivers across their range. Rather than use off-the-shelf generics, Focal customizes each midrange, bass and mid-bass driver for its specific application and cabinet. Since all drivers are built in-house, Focal has ultimate control over what goes in their speakers. Every parameter can be changed and modified; the voice coil, spider (suspension), magnet, surround, cone materials and shape, even the basket. Rather than being forced to make changes in cabinet size to accommodate a specific driver, Focal simply changes the driver to suit the cabinet. This is how Focal is able to deliver such incredible performance and startling low frequency extension from such slender designs as the Profile series; the drivers are literally optimized for the cabinet they’re in. More importantly, from bookshelf to tower to center to surrounds, all Focal speakers in any given series have exactly the same tonal balance, so whether used for stereo or multi channel, consistent performance is a given."
So they don't mention the Be tweeter so that may be the same in each Electra series. But everything else seems different and the Be tweeter in the Electra series is not the same as the Be tweeter in the Utopia III series.
post #5560 of 6419
Thanks for that info MikeDuke,
What is the link you are referencing, I didn't see that info it in the crutchfield link you quoted.
That is also interesting they reference the Profile series which makes me think this is a few years old... I wonder what the present count of different drivers would be today.

This also brings up a question... My 1027S have 4 drivers each - a mid, a tweeter, and two woofers - are the two woofers the same or are they different drivers?
(I don't feel like removing them to check the part numbers...lol)
post #5561 of 6419
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperPoser View Post

Thanks for that info MikeDuke,
What is the link you are referencing, I didn't see that info it in the crutchfield link you quoted.
That is also interesting they reference the Profile series which makes me think this is a few years old... I wonder what the present count of different drivers would be today.

This also brings up a question... My 1027S have 4 drivers each - a mid, a tweeter, and two woofers - are the two woofers the same or are they different drivers?
(I don't feel like removing them to check the part numbers...lol)
Damn, sorry I forgot to post the link redface.gif. Here it is
http://www.musicdirect.com/p-118741-focal-profile-908-speakers-stands-bundle.aspx
I would guess that the two woofers in your 1027S are the same as each other but they would be different then the midrange driver that is in that speaker and most likely different then the woofers in the 1027Be's that I have
post #5562 of 6419
I was driving through the Chicago area yesterday and I stopped at a dealer who had some Focal Electra 1028 BE and the Scala Utopia. I just wanted to post here to say eek.gif I was incredibly impressed. cool.gif I have been wanting to listen to some Focal speakers for quite awhile because I think they are beautiful. I listened as closely to the Electra 1028 BE as I could, paying less attention to the Scala Utopia because I could never begin to afford the Scala Utopia. Front end equipment was all Krell, I am not familiar with the Krell line of products so I'm not sure exactly what it was they were using.

The build quality of these things is 100% quality. I could not find a single fault, even on these demo speakers. They are as well built as any Magico, Marten, Vivid, Harbeth, or any other of my favorite up-scale HiFi speakers. I would say that their sound was similar in nature to a Magico S5, but with much less bass impact and a bit less detail. But for the price comparison, I think the Focal Electra sounded great. I did not listen to the bookshelf speakers, but I could not believe how robust and well built their bookshelf speakers are. They're also quite large. The 1008 BE and the Chorus 806 W were stunning. I did listen to the 836W a bit, but I wasn't too excited over it. It was not as natural and effortless as the Electra 1028 sounded. The bass was very good, very tight with a lot of impact. But the mid-range and treble were a bit warmer than the Electra and I am looking for something a bit more revealing and airy.

I am considering moving to a pair of Focal Electra 1028 BE's now. biggrin.gif I just have to listen to the new Revel Performa3 line to be sure. I was happy to finally be able to check out the Focal speakers so I just wanted to share my thoughts. smile.gif
post #5563 of 6419
Great stuff Greg. I have the 1027's but I have heard the 1028's in a store one time. I was really impressed with them. I have also heard the newer Utopia series as well. Is this for a 2ch setup? The 1028's would be fantastic in that regard. I have never heard Revel speakers so I can't comment on them. But I can say that from what I heard, The 1028's are top notch. Keep us posted on what you end up choosing.
post #5564 of 6419
As a new Focal owner, I thought I'd check in. I've owned speakers in a variety of price ranges from NHT, B&W, Dynaudio, Paradigm, PSB, and Jamo, but these are my first Focals. I'm very impressed with the sound and build quality and the fact that all is made in-house, a rarity these days. I purchased the accessories4less Chorus 814 V mains and center and am very pleased, especially for the paid price. I'd only heard the 706 V and the 807 W briefly in a poor room at a dealer and had a favorable impression overall except for an irritating brightness. I'm happy to say that there isn't any brightness with the speakers in my room. I'm still breaking them in, but the sound is getting better even as I write this. I'm not sure my current receiver, a Pioneer Elite VSX-42 bought recently for a inexpensive Jamo package, is doing the Focals justice, so I'm probably going to upgrade to entry level separates soon. (I already have a H/K 5-channel amp.) I also need to get a sub (suggestions welcome). In fact, I'm so happy with the quality and the value (even at MSRP) that Focal offers that I'm considering the 836 W (I can't really afford the Utopias), along with Dynaudio and Vienna Acoustics for my main system.
post #5565 of 6419
Picked up a set of 1000 be surrounds off demo last night to match my 1028 be set. My dealer has to replace one of the tweeters that was unfortunately cracked, but after that's done, should be in good shape.

The search for a slate gray 1008 be CC begins!
post #5566 of 6419
Great stuff Ryan. I hope you find your center. Mine doesn't match my mains but I don't care. It's was the last one out there. With yours still being a current model, I am sure one will turn up some time. All matching will sound really good.
post #5567 of 6419
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

Great stuff Ryan. I hope you find your center. Mine doesn't match my mains but I don't care. It's was the last one out there. With yours still being a current model, I am sure one will turn up some time. All matching will sound really good.
Thanks Mike, I hope so!

My dealer is working with the Focal rep...worst case scenario I have to have one made as a "custom finish" which has some ridiculous up charge I'm sure, but at least the option is there.
post #5568 of 6419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan T. View Post

Thanks Mike, I hope so!

My dealer is working with the Focal rep...worst case scenario I have to have one made as a "custom finish" which has some ridiculous up charge I'm sure, but at least the option is there.
The custom finish up charge is 20% and don't be surprised if your dealer asks you to pay for them (not just a deposit) at the time you place the order. I currently have an order in for a CC 1008 Be in the Macassar finish and will be ordering a pair of 1038 Be's in the same finish when my play money slush fund has grown enough to pay for them.
post #5569 of 6419
The 1008 center is still current so but it looks like Slate Grey is not an option any more frown.gif. I forget how much of an up charge a custom color is. I hope you can get one in that color without too much of an up charge. As an FYI for the rest of the forum, if you find out what the up charge is, it might be cool if you post it.
post #5570 of 6419
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

The custom finish up charge is 20% and don't be surprised if your dealer asks you to pay for them (not just a deposit) at the time you place the order. I currently have an order in for a CC 1008 Be in the Macassar finish and will be ordering a pair of 1038 Be's in the same finish when my play money slush fund has grown enough to pay for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

The 1008 center is still current so but it looks like Slate Grey is not an option any more frown.gif. I forget how much of an up charge a custom color is. I hope you can get one in that color without too much of an up charge. As an FYI for the rest of the forum, if you find out what the up charge is, it might be cool if you post it.

Thanks guys, yeah, I'm really hoping they can find one in the dealer network. He says he doesn't *think* it should be a problem. Fingers crossed.
post #5571 of 6419
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

As an FYI for the rest of the forum, if you find out what the up charge is, it might be cool if you post it.
Look 1 post above your post and you'll find the answer wink.gif. I'm feeling a bit invisible here biggrin.gif.
post #5572 of 6419
Actually, maybe you guys will have some experience with this...

I have an Anthem PVA 2 I'm powering my mains (the 1028s) with.

I have a Yamaha RX-A2000 doing pre-amp / processor duties - when I hook up the other 3-5 speakers, am I safe in assuming the Yamaha should be able to power these effectively? The A2000 is rated at 135wpc, and from what I've read, that should be pretty accurate since it's one of Yamaha's higher end models.

Just trying to avoid having to buy another amplifier for channels typically used only for movies / TV.
post #5573 of 6419
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

Look 1 post above your post and you'll find the answer wink.gif. I'm feeling a bit invisible here biggrin.gif.
I see you now smile.gif.
post #5574 of 6419
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

The custom finish up charge is 20% and don't be surprised if your dealer asks you to pay for them (not just a deposit) at the time you place the order. I currently have an order in for a CC 1008 Be in the Macassar finish and will be ordering a pair of 1038 Be's in the same finish when my play money slush fund has grown enough to pay for them.
That finish is simply awesome. I really do think I got the last CC1000be that was out there because that is the only finish they had when I ordered my center. It really does not bother me because you can only see the difference when you walk up to it because of its placement and with the lights out, you can't see it at all. But it sure sounds good. The 1038's should be outstanding. I heard the 1028's and I was biting my tongue not to say that I wanted to upgrade to them from my 1027's. Maybe some day.
Edited by MIkeDuke - 2/6/13 at 11:59am
post #5575 of 6419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan T. View Post

Actually, maybe you guys will have some experience with this...

I have an Anthem PVA 2 I'm powering my mains (the 1028s) with.

I have a Yamaha RX-A2000 doing pre-amp / processor duties - when I hook up the other 3-5 speakers, am I safe in assuming the Yamaha should be able to power these effectively? The A2000 is rated at 135wpc, and from what I've read, that should be pretty accurate since it's one of Yamaha's higher end models.

Just trying to avoid having to buy another amplifier for channels typically used only for movies / TV.
You should be fine with powering the rest of the speakers with your receiver. You might change your mind later. Having good power for movies is also important though. The center channel especially. Your receiver probably has one power supply for all of those channels so less speakers you are powering with it, the better for the other speakers. This means that your other 3-5 speakers will get a bit more power then they probably would have gotten if you ran everything of the receiver.
post #5576 of 6419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg121986 View Post

I was driving through the Chicago area yesterday and I stopped at a dealer who had some Focal Electra 1028 BE and the Scala Utopia. I just wanted to post here to say eek.gif I was incredibly impressed. cool.gif I have been wanting to listen to some Focal speakers for quite awhile because I think they are beautiful. I listened as closely to the Electra 1028 BE as I could, paying less attention to the Scala Utopia because I could never begin to afford the Scala Utopia. Front end equipment was all Krell, I am not familiar with the Krell line of products so I'm not sure exactly what it was they were using.

The build quality of these things is 100% quality. I could not find a single fault, even on these demo speakers. They are as well built as any Magico, Marten, Vivid, Harbeth, or any other of my favorite up-scale HiFi speakers. I would say that their sound was similar in nature to a Magico S5, but with much less bass impact and a bit less detail. But for the price comparison, I think the Focal Electra sounded great. I did not listen to the bookshelf speakers, but I could not believe how robust and well built their bookshelf speakers are. They're also quite large. The 1008 BE and the Chorus 806 W were stunning. I did listen to the 836W a bit, but I wasn't too excited over it. It was not as natural and effortless as the Electra 1028 sounded. The bass was very good, very tight with a lot of impact. But the mid-range and treble were a bit warmer than the Electra and I am looking for something a bit more revealing and airy.

I am considering moving to a pair of Focal Electra 1028 BE's now. biggrin.gif I just have to listen to the new Revel Performa3 line to be sure. I was happy to finally be able to check out the Focal speakers so I just wanted to share my thoughts. smile.gif

Thanks for sharing the experience. Yes, 1028Be build quality is as good as any at its price point. smile.gif

Your impression with comparison to Magico S5 is also very interesting. Magico releases a new floorstanding 2-way model S1 (with their own Be tweeter) this year and it is priced very close to Diablo Utopia.

Let us know what you think of Revel Performa3 vs. Electra.
post #5577 of 6419
Ok, my dealer is telling me that they're ordering me a 1008 be CC in Black Lacquer because the Focal Rep told them that that is the same color as Slate Grey. The naming seems a little counterintuitive to me, but I know this wouldn't be the first time a company has "rebranded" a color...

I can't find anything on the web to either support or contradict this though...does anyone have anything in the be II series in Black Lacquer finish? Is it a grey metallic finish or is it more "pure" black as I'm imagining it?
post #5578 of 6419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan T. View Post

Ok, my dealer is telling me that they're ordering me a 1008 be CC in Black Lacquer because the Focal Rep told them that that is the same color as Slate Grey. The naming seems a little counterintuitive to me, but I know this wouldn't be the first time a company has "rebranded" a color...

I can't find anything on the web to either support or contradict this though...does anyone have anything in the be II series in Black Lacquer finish? Is it a grey metallic finish or is it more "pure" black as I'm imagining it?

My 1028s are black lacquer and they look black (piano/metallic black) to me. In fact, I've never seen Be II series in metallic grey. As I understand, slate grey and black lacquer are the same.
post #5579 of 6419
Quote:
Originally Posted by kzhtoo View Post

My 1028s are black lacquer and they look black (piano/metallic black) to me. In fact, I've never seen Be II series in metallic grey. As I understand, slate grey and black lacquer are the same.

Ok, I'll keep my fingers crossed then, thanks. My mains (1028 be) and rears (SR 1000 be)are definitely slate grey, they say so on the box, and in the light they are clearly dark gray with some metallic flake. The fronts and rears of the mains are solid black, but the sides are most definitely grey.

The good news is that they'll let me use the one they're ordering until they get one color matched for me in case it doesn't match up correctly.

So here's hoping...
post #5580 of 6419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan T. View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kzhtoo View Post

My 1028s are black lacquer and they look black (piano/metallic black) to me. In fact, I've never seen Be II series in metallic grey. As I understand, slate grey and black lacquer are the same.

Ok, I'll keep my fingers crossed then, thanks. My mains (1028 be) and rears (SR 1000 be)are definitely slate grey, they say so on the box, and in the light they are clearly dark gray with some metallic flake. The fronts and rears of the mains are solid black, but the sides are most definitely grey.

The good news is that they'll let me use the one they're ordering until they get one color matched for me in case it doesn't match up correctly.

So here's hoping...

I will check what it says on my box when I get home today.
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