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Focal - JM Lab Owner's Thread - Page 189

post #5641 of 6414
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperPoser View Post

The MCA is a bit more pricy than the PVA series and the PVA matched perfectly with my Chorus S I had at the time.
When I updated to Electra S, the PVA made them sound great so I saw no reason to spend more money to upgrade the amp.

...
I see you are asking about a Be series... anyway, you have my answer for the Electra S series.

I have a modest room size and the Focal's are extremely efficient. I would need to be playing at reference levels or above to need more power I would guess. 105 real WPC continuous is a lot heck of a lot of power. Remember, these aren't rated like an AVR where 100 WPC becomes 40-50 WPC when all channels are powered; you get 105+ WPC even when every single channel is firing.

I may eventually pick up an MCA 20 piece to pair with my fronts if I get my dedicated room in the next house; but until then, the Anthem works great.
post #5642 of 6414
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperPoser View Post

The MCA is a bit more pricy than the PVA series and the PVA matched perfectly with my Chorus S I had at the time.
When I updated to Electra S, the PVA made them sound great so I saw no reason to spend more money to upgrade the amp.

...
I see you are asking about a Be series... anyway, you have my answer for the Electra S series.

Thanks for the reply. Wasn't trying to be specific about the series as they have similar power requirements. That was me just confused if you had the Electra S or Electra Be.
post #5643 of 6414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan T. View Post

I have a modest room size and the Focal's are extremely efficient. I would need to be playing at reference levels or above to need more power I would guess. 105 real WPC continuous is a lot heck of a lot of power. Remember, these aren't rated like an AVR where 100 WPC becomes 40-50 WPC when all channels are powered; you get 105+ WPC even when every single channel is firing.

I may eventually pick up an MCA 20 piece to pair with my fronts if I get my dedicated room in the next house; but until then, the Anthem works great.

Of course just as I say this, we decide to put our house up for sale for a bigger place -- maybe I should start looking for a bigger amp wink.gif
post #5644 of 6414
I have 300 watts going to my 1027's and 150 watts going to my center and surrounds(CC1000BE and Chorus 705v's). It really does the trick. Could I get by with less power? Maybe. I had a really high end 100 watt per channel in my system once and I floored with how well it made my 1027's sound. But my Bryston's are a pretty good match for these speakers. You just don't want to get into a situation where you under power them and turn up the amp or receiver so loud that signal clips. That's can do a lot of damage to a speaker. Anyway, good luck in your new room and good luck if decide on a bigger amp.
Edited by MIkeDuke - 3/27/13 at 10:31am
post #5645 of 6414
I will just add one more thing. If anybody feels that the 1027's are weak in the bass, I humbly submit that you have a setup issue, or equipment issue. Just my opinion. I have a demo disk that someone gave me and it has some really bass filled tunes. My mouth still drops when I put it on. I am sure I could fool people into thinking the sub is on when it is not. They sound fantastic on all kinds of music. Now will it go as low as some other speakers that have 10 or 12in drivers? Probably not. But in my room, I have no complaints at all. I have had them for almost seven years now and they still bring a smile to my face. I have heard the 1028's and they are fantastic as well. But I am quite happy right now.
Edited by MIkeDuke - 3/27/13 at 10:47am
post #5646 of 6414
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

I will just add one more thing. If anybody feels that the 1027's are weak in the bass, I humbly submit that you have a setup issue, or equipment issue. Just my opinion. I have a demo disk that someone gave me and it has some really bass filled tunes. My mouth still drops when I put it on. I am sure I could fool people into thinking the sub is on when it is not. They sound fantastic on all kinds of music. Now will it go as low as some other speakers that have 10 or 12in drivers? Probably not. But in my room, I have no complaints at all. I have had them for almost seven years now and they still bring a smile to my face. I have heard the 1028's and they are fantastic as well. But I am quite happy right now.

Same - it's really about how they're powered and setup.

That being said, if you're running them for HT, I think you'll still want a sub (or two). I incorporated a Paradigm Ultracube 12 for that purpose and it works well.
post #5647 of 6414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan T. View Post

Same - it's really about how they're powered and setup.

That being said, if you're running them for HT, I think you'll still want a sub (or two). I incorporated a Paradigm Ultracube 12 for that purpose and it works well.
I agree. For HT, a sub is a must. I have Seaton SubMersive HP. That does the trick. But for music, unless it is a MC SACD or DVD-A, I typically do not use a sub
post #5648 of 6414
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

I will just add one more thing. If anybody feels that the 1027's are weak in the bass, I humbly submit that you have a setup issue, or equipment issue. Just my opinion. I have a demo disk that someone gave me and it has some really bass filled tunes. My mouth still drops when I put it on. I am sure I could fool people into thinking the sub is on when it is not. They sound fantastic on all kinds of music. Now will it go as low as some other speakers that have 10 or 12in drivers? Probably not. But in my room, I have no complaints at all. I have had them for almost seven years now and they still bring a smile to my face. I have heard the 1028's and they are fantastic as well. But I am quite happy right now.

+1
My 1028s are powered by Pass XA30.5, which is 30 watts class A for 8 ohm load (stereophile measured ~120 watts class A/B before clipping). Pass meter indicates the amp stays in class A for very loud level.
post #5649 of 6414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Tube View Post

836W on order will be here tomorrow I hope. Not using a sub with them, one of the reasons I went with the 836 instead of the 826. Both were on sale at my local Audio dealer so I took the plunge smile.gif .
Will do a through review once they are broken in biggrin.gif

More will be Revealed.
Dr_Tube
Dr. Tube, have you had a chance to break in the 836s? I just ordered a pair (in red) and I would like to try a tube amp. I'm thinking the McIntosh 275 at 75watts. Focal said 75 watts is plenty for the 836 and would even drive the Utopias. But before I plunk down the money for the 275s I would like to hear from someone who actually has tried tubes. I'm buying the Focals sight unseen or unheard. I'm taking a leap of faith that the reviews I've read are accurate. I had a pair of Magnepan 1.7s and was going to go up to the 3.7s when I read a couple of reviews of the 836s.
post #5650 of 6414
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2channelguy View Post

Dr. Tube, have you had a chance to break in the 836s? I just ordered a pair (in red) and I would like to try a tube amp. I'm thinking the McIntosh 275 at 75watts. Focal said 75 watts is plenty for the 836 and would even drive the Utopias. But before I plunk down the money for the 275s I would like to hear from someone who actually has tried tubes. I'm buying the Focals sight unseen or unheard. I'm taking a leap of faith that the reviews I've read are accurate. I had a pair of Magnepan 1.7s and was going to go up to the 3.7s when I read a couple of reviews of the 836s.

I don't have any direct experience with the 275, but I think you'll be absolutely fine based on what I know of Focal's and their efficiency.
post #5651 of 6414
Quote:
Originally Posted by kzhtoo View Post

+1
My 1028s are powered by Pass XA30.5, which is 30 watts class A for 8 ohm load (stereophile measured ~120 watts class A/B before clipping). Pass meter indicates the amp stays in class A for very loud level.
First. Focal and Pass are a great combo. Second, it is my opinion that Focal speakers really like Class A power. 30 watts Class is really a lot of class A power. When compared to other higher power class A/B amps, the 30 watts of class A power you get is really equal to a more powerful class A\B amp. I am sure that the combo sounds really good. The "down" side is amps like that tend to run pretty warm because class A is not that efficient. But Pass and Focal are suppose to be a very nice match.
post #5652 of 6414
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2channelguy View Post

Dr. Tube, have you had a chance to break in the 836s? I just ordered a pair (in red) and I would like to try a tube amp. I'm thinking the McIntosh 275 at 75watts. Focal said 75 watts is plenty for the 836 and would even drive the Utopias. But before I plunk down the money for the 275s I would like to hear from someone who actually has tried tubes. I'm buying the Focals sight unseen or unheard. I'm taking a leap of faith that the reviews I've read are accurate. I had a pair of Magnepan 1.7s and was going to go up to the 3.7s when I read a couple of reviews of the 836s.

Yes I have had a chance to get the 836Ws somewhat broken in. Still need a little time to put together a full review, let me just say they are wonderful sounding speakers and match up well with the Music Reference RM-10 for music and HT. Keep in mind my room is only 13x15'. Though I haven't heard the new Mac 275 (love the looks) 75 watts would be great in just about any size room, tube amps don't clip like solid state does but 75 watts would do fine for a lot of set ups. Music Reference does have a RM-200 which is a 100 watt unit about $1,000 less than the Mac. I had a RM-9 back in the day, (the RM-200 is its replacement) wish I still had it. Just to let you know what I heard that actual works well with the Focals, Marantz SR7007, the Anthem line, and the Ben Canto electronic works very well with the 836w and the ELECTRA 1038 BE. My dealer has these electronics so its nice to be able to audition this stuff.
Congrats on your purchase, The red is awesome, just remember they will take a while to break in.
Keep us updated.

More will be revealed
Dr Tube
Dave
post #5653 of 6414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Tube View Post

... tube amps don't clip like solid state does ...

Could you elaborate?
post #5654 of 6414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Tube View Post


Yes I have had a chance to get the 836Ws somewhat broken in. Still need a little time to put together a full review, let me just say they are wonderful sounding speakers and match up well with the Music Reference RM-10 for music and HT. Keep in mind my room is only 13x15'. Though I haven't heard the new Mac 275 (love the looks) 75 watts would be great in just about any size room, tube amps don't clip like solid state does but 75 watts would do fine for a lot of set ups. Music Reference does have a RM-200 which is a 100 watt unit about $1,000 less than the Mac. I had a RM-9 back in the day, (the RM-200 is its replacement) wish I still had it. Just to let you know what I heard that actual works well with the Focals, Marantz SR7007, the Anthem line, and the Ben Canto electronic works very well with the 836w and the ELECTRA 1038 BE. My dealer has these electronics so its nice to be able to audition this stuff.
Congrats on your purchase, The red is awesome, just remember they will take a while to break in.
Keep us updated.

More will be revealed
Dr Tube
Dave
Thank you for the reply. Thanks for the info on MR and Bel Canto. Bel Canto could be an interesting choice. Thanks again.
post #5655 of 6414
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperPoser View Post

Could you elaborate?

When tube amps clip usually its what is sometimes is referred to as a soft clip you may not even hear it, or some would say they really don't clip. if you look at the specs of most tube amp there is much more distortion than SS equipment but you don't hear more distortion. Some would say the distortion tubes produce is more palatable than SS. Most guitar amps are tubes and players use the distortion to get some great sound. This is not to say a good SS amp wouldn't sound great with Focal and many other speakers.cool.gif

On another note stopped by my Audio dealer today the center channel cc 800w won't be in till mid April eek.gif but I'll have patience.

More will be revealed
Dr Tube
Dave
post #5656 of 6414
Dr. Tube,

I am specifically wondering about how the clipping is different on a tube amp compared to a solid state amp.
Although I have never designed a tube amp, It would still be limited by the supply voltage...
If the theoretical output's peak voltage would be greater than the supply voltage, the peak voltage would be "clipped" at this supply voltage minus various losses in the amp.

Thinking about what you mention: "sometimes is referred to as a soft clip you may not even hear it, or some would say they really don't clip":
Perhaps the nature of a tube amp provides a tapering or dampening effect as the peak output signal approaches the supply voltage. If this is true, it could reduce the "flat appearance" of a clipped output, but it would still be clipped. It is also possible if that is an accurate guess, that this may not harm a speaker as much as a sharper clipped signal.
Regardless, except in specific applications when a form of distortion is required, it is not a good idea to clip the signal.

Thanks,
Mike
post #5657 of 6414
Does anyone know when the new design of the Chorus 700 series is going to start selling through North American dealers? The press release from CES mentioned April at the latest, but I haven't heard anything from my local dealer, who I've recently been discussing Focal products with.
post #5658 of 6414
Has anyone heard the Electra 1038 or 1028 BE compare to the Chorus 836 W? I know there's a big price difference and was wondering if the sound quality difference is commensurate. The 800 W series seems to have gotten rave reviews lately and a Focal dealer told me that if one was to upgrade from the 800 W it would be best to bypass the Electra line altogether in favor of the Utopia series.
post #5659 of 6414
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kzhtoo View Post

+1
My 1028s are powered by Pass XA30.5, which is 30 watts class A for 8 ohm load (stereophile measured ~120 watts class A/B before clipping). Pass meter indicates the amp stays in class A for very loud level.
First. Focal and Pass are a great combo. Second, it is my opinion that Focal speakers really like Class A power. 30 watts Class is really a lot of class A power. When compared to other higher power class A/B amps, the 30 watts of class A power you get is really equal to a more powerful class A\B amp. I am sure that the combo sounds really good. The "down" side is amps like that tend to run pretty warm because class A is not that efficient. But Pass and Focal are suppose to be a very nice match.

Spot on. I had Bryston 4BSST2 (300wpc class A/B) before Pass XA30.5 and Pass is at entirely new level. Both amps are in similar price range, new or used, and this is where IMO Focal's efficiency pays dividend - being able to pair with lower rated power but sonically superior amp.
post #5660 of 6414
Quote:
Originally Posted by justindo View Post

Has anyone heard the Electra 1038 or 1028 BE compare to the Chorus 836 W? I know there's a big price difference and was wondering if the sound quality difference is commensurate. The 800 W series seems to have gotten rave reviews lately and a Focal dealer told me that if one was to upgrade from the 800 W it would be best to bypass the Electra line altogether in favor of the Utopia series.

That may be an unmanageable jump for many considering the cheapest Utopia speaker pair is the Diablos around 13K (stands + tax will put you over that); And the next is the Viva is about 25K / pair and the Scalas are > 30K / pair.

I think there are better returns for the price from the Chorus -> Electra jump. That being said I would still love a set of Vivas for my front three. smile.gif Or a down payment on a Porsche, haven't decided.
post #5661 of 6414
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperPoser View Post

Dr. Tube,

I am specifically wondering about how the clipping is different on a tube amp compared to a solid state amp.
Although I have never designed a tube amp, It would still be limited by the supply voltage...
If the theoretical output's peak voltage would be greater than the supply voltage, the peak voltage would be "clipped" at this supply voltage minus various losses in the amp.

Thinking about what you mention: "sometimes is referred to as a soft clip you may not even hear it, or some would say they really don't clip":
Perhaps the nature of a tube amp provides a tapering or dampening effect as the peak output signal approaches the supply voltage. If this is true, it could reduce the "flat appearance" of a clipped output, but it would still be clipped. It is also possible if that is an accurate guess, that this may not harm a speaker as much as a sharper clipped signal.
Regardless, except in specific applications when a form of distortion is required, it is not a good idea to clip the signal.

Thanks,
Mike

Agreed always not a good idea to clip the amp and yes generally much less harmful when using a tube amp. Here is a quote I read that puts it in a good light "Tube amps clip gradually as the wattage is increased while solid state amps remain clean until they’re suddenly very clipped/distorted." In general I have found more clean power is a good thing but like anything else it can be overdone. Speaker efficiency, room size has a lot to do with power needed. smile.gif

More will be revealed
Dr Tube
Dave
post #5662 of 6414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Tube View Post

In general I have found more clean power is a good thing but like anything else it can be overdone. Speaker efficiency, room size has a lot to do with power needed. smile.gif More will be revealed Dr Tube Dave

Yes very true, I would add to that the level you are listening at and the state of your hearing!
post #5663 of 6414
Quote:
Originally Posted by justindo View Post

Has anyone heard the Electra 1038 or 1028 BE compare to the Chorus 836 W? I know there's a big price difference and was wondering if the sound quality difference is commensurate. The 800 W series seems to have gotten rave reviews lately and a Focal dealer told me that if one was to upgrade from the 800 W it would be best to bypass the Electra line altogether in favor of the Utopia series.

I did listen to the 1028 BE when I was auditioning the 836w, with the Beryllium tweeter, they are very very sweet indeed. I like to listen the next level of stuff I'm unwilling to afford at the time just to see (hear) how much better they/ if they are better. The 1028 BE are an upgrade from the 836w IMHO and I own the 836W, but you have to be willing to shell out about $4,000 more. The 1028 BE are nice:D.
With the 1028 BE they would be even more revealing of weaknesses in you set-up than the 836W.

Except for the tweeter I believe the drivers are the same. The networks are different also, I'd have to double check on that info.

More will be revealed
Dr Tube
Dave
post #5664 of 6414
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Yes very true, I would add to that the level you are listening at and the state of your hearing!

Very True!

More will be revealed
Dr Tube
Dave
post #5665 of 6414
Quote:
Originally Posted by kzhtoo View Post

Spot on. I had Bryston 4BSST2 (300wpc class A/B) before Pass XA30.5 and Pass is at entirely new level. Both amps are in similar price range, new or used, and this is where IMO Focal's efficiency pays dividend - being able to pair with lower rated power but sonically superior amp.
I am using an older Bryston 4b-ST with my 1027's. That has been measured at 300 watts per channel. Now, I have also heard my own speakers with a 100 watt Dartzeel amp and I could not believe how good and powerful they sounded. I can't go for pass for two reasons. One is as I mentioned, I do think they get pretty warm and my room is very small. My room gets hot in the summer time just with my Bryston's. Second, I have a 2ch/HT system. So I either need a 5ch amp or a 2 and 3ch amp. I don't think Pass makes a 3 channel amp. But for now the Bryston's do the job. Maybe in the future I will see what I can get.
post #5666 of 6414
Hi Folks,

I was wondering if I could get some solid real world feedback on the Focal Dome speakers.

I am in an average size condo right now and living/dining room is an open space. I have to use stand mounted rears in my current set-up for surround.

I already have my dream Dynaudio set-up. Focal and Dynaudio are great speakers for sure.
My problem is I am using Dynaudio Focus 110s (out of production small monitor) for rears and even this size is presenting a challenge. My dog knocked one of my monitors over again this morning. Ugh.

I am really considering the Focal Dome for rear only. They are smaller and with the matching stand, secure. These would look/work so much better in my current condo.

I hardly ever suggest mixed brands but I need a smaller footprint in rear for now. $1k for a pair of these(with stand) is not cheap but they look fantastic and if they are not too weak I may get by. I also know that my 110s are at a different level but my rear space is getting on my nerves lately.

I listen to no multi-channel music. This would be for movies, tv and sports only. I am a moderate listener for movies. Usually not at reference levels due to condo living.

I know this is a Focal thread but really how do this Domes handle movies? Rears only and moderate listening levels?

Thanks!

Rick
Edited by Mr.SoftDome - 3/31/13 at 10:21am
post #5667 of 6414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.SoftDome View Post

Hi Folks,

I was wondering if I could get some solid real world feedback on the Focal Dome speakers.

I am in an average size condo right now and living/dining room is an open space. I have to use stand mounted rears in my current set-up for surround.

I already have my dream Dynaudio set-up. Focal and Dynaudio are great speakers for sure.
My problem is I am using Dynaudio Focus 110s (out of production small monitor) for rears and even this size is presenting a challenge. My dog knocked one of my monitors over again this morning. Ugh.

I am really considering the Focal Dome for rear only. They are smaller and with the matching stand, secure. These would look/work so much better in my current condo.

I hardly ever suggest mixed brands but I need a smaller footprint in rear for now. $1k for a pair of these(with stand) is not cheap but they look fantastic and if they are not too weak I may get by. I also know that my 110s are at a different level but my rear space is getting on my nerves lately.

I listen to no multi-channel music. This would be for movies, tv and sports only. I am a moderate listener for movies. Usually not at reference levels due to condo living.

I know this is a Focal thread but really how do this Domes handle movies? Rears only and moderate listening levels?

Thanks!

Rick

Sorry I can't be more specific, as I haven't owned these, but I have demoed them -- I was VERY impressed. These will be my next living room setup after I get my dedicated room in our next house.
post #5668 of 6414
Thanks Ryan,

I ordered a pair last night. I hope they work out okay. In my humble opinion they look bad-ass with the matching stands. I will really gain a fair amount of room in the rear trying these.

My Dynaudio Confidence front three have a $16k value and I hope these tiny Focals can cut it. I am using a much lesser Dynaudio speaker for rears now and sounds great with the front but I am space challenged rear and I am my own WAF ha and can use the rear space.

If you go by looks alone ( see my avatar) the funky looks of my Confidence C1s in lacquer and the Focal Dome in rear look like a match in heaven. I get modern!! My place reeks of it...

Just please sound okay! 30 days to return. Fair enough.

Will let you all know. My front end should allow a valid opinion smile.gif

Rick
post #5669 of 6414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.SoftDome View Post

Thanks Ryan,

I ordered a pair last night. I hope they work out okay. In my humble opinion they look bad-ass with the matching stands. I will really gain a fair amount of room in the rear trying these.

My Dynaudio Confidence front three have a $16k value and I hope these tiny Focals can cut it. I am using a much lesser Dynaudio speaker for rears now and sounds great with the front but I am space challenged rear and I am my own WAF ha and can use the rear space.

If you go by looks alone ( see my avatar) the funky looks of my Confidence C1s in lacquer and the Focal Dome in rear look like a match in heaven. I get modern!! My place reeks of it...

Just please sound okay! 30 days to return. Fair enough.

Will let you all know. My front end should allow a valid opinion smile.gif

Rick

Congrats - I don't think unless you're trying to fill a huge space with them that you'll be disappointed. Did you order from MusicDirect?
post #5670 of 6414
Has anyone ever replaced the amp in a JM Lab Chorus 700 Sub Woofer? I bought this thing about 10 years ago, and it started making a loud intermittent popping noise. When I contacted support, they suggested I mail in the plate amp, however after unscrewing the perimeter screws on the back, I have no idea how to pry the thing out as it seems fairly well stuck in there.
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