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Samsung HLS-5679W LED DLP Owners Thread (*NO PRICE TALK) - Page 38

post #1111 of 2935
Hey, I wasn't planning on trying to fix it myself. I was just curious. There's a lot of advanced knowledge in this forum, so I thought someone could give me an answer.

Marc
post #1112 of 2935
Quote:
Originally Posted by marclallen View Post

I was just curious. There's a lot of advanced knowledge in this forum, so I thought someone could give me an answer.

It's possible. Let us know how your exchange works out.
post #1113 of 2935
Quote:
Originally Posted by marclallen View Post

Ok, then, how does half a screen go out? What is there that controls one side of a screen and not the other?
Marc

Wobulation.
post #1114 of 2935
Quote:
Originally Posted by trefork View Post

Wobulation.

Wobulation - NOT. The wobulation mirror only moves the pixel images by one pixel width. If the wobulation went out you would see a full width picture, but with 960 x1080 pixels.

More likely the driver circuitry on, or external to, the DMD chip itself has failed, and only half of the DMD is being addressed.
post #1115 of 2935
Quote:
Originally Posted by wbertram View Post

Wobulation - NOT.

Thank you. I was waiting for the "wobulation" suggestion to pop up, and you covered it exactly.
post #1116 of 2935
Quote:
Originally Posted by tg2k View Post

Eliab, just to confirm: You've really seen this amount of variation in the LED-based HL-S5679Ws? I somehow thought the LED sets would be more uniform in lighting than the bulb-based sets.

I've only calibrated three thus far. But yes - they were all slightly different.

Eliab
post #1117 of 2935
Quote:
Originally Posted by tke800 View Post

I just had my set calibrated by Eliab Alvarez de la Campa @ Avical Video System Specialists(avical_com) a little over a week ago when he was on his Midwest Calibration Tour. I also had a Sammy HL-P5685W & a Sharp LC-46D62U calibrated as long as he was in town.

He did an excellent job on all the televisions but when he finished the 5679, the resulting picture was breathtaking. Post-calibration by Eliab, the 5679 picture is hands-down the best RPTV I have ever seen. He even considerably brightened the picture.

Eliab was very professional and patient with all my questions. Seeing him work with Sammys from completely different generations, it became apparent that he REALLY knows his Samsungs. He basically has the service menus memorized and could probably teach Samsung a thing or two about their displays if they cared to entertain it.

I would highly recommend that anyone with a 5679 give Eliab a call. It makes a vast improvement on these displays.

Thanks very much for taking the time to post your calibration impressions. I really appreciate it!

Eliab
post #1118 of 2935
For those calibrated by Eliab (or Eliab himself!) how does this set compare in black level and contrast to a calibrated CRT RPTV?

edit: looking back a page I see worse than bulb-DLP. Do you think this is a result of the LED technology or just a 1st gen thing?
post #1119 of 2935
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan911 View Post

I noticed that you are adjusting movie mode. If I used these settings in the CUSTOM mode would the picture be identical? Do the mode selections change more that those items that I can adjust?

OTB, the Movie mode will put you closer to the proper SMPTE color space.

Eliab
post #1120 of 2935
Quote:
Originally Posted by tg2k View Post

FWIW, I still insist on Normal for my TV, not Warm2 which makes it too red.

Could very well be for your particular display.

Quote:


Either Cool1 or Normal seem appropriate to me. If you try Eliab's settings and think it looks too red or dark and muddy (as it may as soon as you switch to Movie mode), then make sure to play with the color tone--on my set it made all the difference.

Let me point out that our suggested settings are not intended in any way shape or form to replace a professional calibration. They will likely be the lesser of two evils as compared to the out of the box settings. But again, they are absolutely not definitive. And lastly, they should be followed by a DVE user-level calibration for a more accurate setting of one's particular system.

Having said that, here are our newly updated recommended settings for the Samsung HL-S5679W LED DLP display. Note that the contrast is quite a bit higher than what we were recommending for the non-LED HLS displays.

Digital NR - OFF
DNIe - Off
Mode - Movie
Contrast - 70
Brightness - 40
Sharpness - 0
Color - 45
Tint - G50/R50
Color Tone - Warm2 (or Warm1 if it appears too red)

Eliab
post #1121 of 2935
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbug View Post

Please PM me with contact info on Eliab (assuming he works on SXRD also).
Thanks

I just did two this week and have another couple scheduled for next week. We're getting one in our lab in January.

Eliab
post #1122 of 2935
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliab View Post

here are our newly updated recommended settings for the Samsung HL-S5679W LED DLP display. Note that the contrast is quite a bit higher than what we were recommending for the non-LED HLS displays.

Digital NR - OFF
DNIe - Off
Mode - Movie
Contrast - 70
Brightness - 40
Sharpness - 0
Color - 45
Tint - G50/R50
Color Tone - Warm2 (or Warm1 if it appears too red)

Eliab

After a n00bish DVE calibration, I ended up with the following:

Digital NR - OFF
DNIe - Off
Mode - Movie
Contrast - 54
Brightness - 42
Sharpness - 0
Color - 48
Tint - G50/R50
Color Tone - Normal

This result is much better than what I had been able to do, simply by eye alone. I'm glad to know that the settings really do vary from set to set.

I know that I'm too late to sign up for your January Nor Cal tour, but would you forget the deadline and take a late entry exception for a Sacramento calibration? =)
post #1123 of 2935
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post

For those calibrated by Eliab (or Eliab himself!) how does this set compare in black level and contrast to a calibrated CRT RPTV?

edit: looking back a page I see worse than bulb-DLP. Do you think this is a result of the LED technology or just a 1st gen thing?

The lack of a dynamic iris is a major reason. With DLP, I've found that alot of light easily reaches the screen from pixels that should be off and very dark instead. The "darkness floor", if you will, is very high up there into the dark grays. The CRT RPTV I gave my brother puts every DLP I've seen to shame in this department (black is black on it). Texas Instruments' "Dark" tech reduces the amount of reflected light of "off" mirrors but it isn't close enough by a long shot to me. A DLP breakthrough that produces a completely black/off pixel when it should be (mirror in the "off" poisition, will be a big one. Until then dynamic iris and the resulting marking names for it will be needed.
post #1124 of 2935
P. S. Just got the PS3 at it looks great on the HL-S5679W!
post #1125 of 2935
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Thank you. I was waiting for the "wobulation" suggestion to pop up, and you covered it exactly.

Yeah, I thought exactly the same thing. I have heard (anecdotally) that one way that graphics board makers pump more power into a system is by parallelizing it--typically devoting one chip (or section of a chip) to a particular region of the output image. This is likely a very similar situation. But that's all supposition.
post #1126 of 2935
Eliab,

i just got my hls6767 and am interested in maybe getting your calibration services in the new year after i get fios. please pm your website/email/contact info.
post #1127 of 2935
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Hester View Post

The lack of a dynamic iris is a major reason. With DLP, I've found that alot of light easily reaches the screen from pixels that should be off and very dark instead. The "darkness floor", if you will, is very high up there into the dark grays. The CRT RPTV I gave my brother puts every DLP I've seen to shame in this department (black is black on it). Texas Instruments' "Dark" tech reduces the amount of reflected light of "off" mirrors but it isn't close enough by a long shot to me. A DLP breakthrough that produces a completely black/off pixel when it should be (mirror in the "off" poisition, will be a big one. Until then dynamic iris and the resulting marking names for it will be needed.

Interesting. Maybe we will see something like this in the 07/08 models (along with a 24fps multiple refresh!).
post #1128 of 2935
Quote:
Originally Posted by raab View Post

After a n00bish DVE calibration, I ended up with the following:

Digital NR - OFF
DNIe - Off
Mode - Movie
Contrast - 54
Brightness - 42
Sharpness - 0
Color - 48
Tint - G50/R50
Color Tone - Normal

This result is much better than what I had been able to do, simply by eye alone. I'm glad to know that the settings really do vary from set to set.

I know that I'm too late to sign up for your January Nor Cal tour, but would you forget the deadline and take a late entry exception for a Sacramento calibration? =)

Please get in contact with my business partner David Abrams right away at dave@avical.com or at 323-679-4079. He's driving towards San Francisco today from Seattle and may be able to fit you in before returning to LA.

Eliab
post #1129 of 2935
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Hester View Post

The lack of a dynamic iris is a major reason. With DLP, I've found that alot of light easily reaches the screen from pixels that should be off and very dark instead. The "darkness floor", if you will, is very high up there into the dark grays. The CRT RPTV I gave my brother puts every DLP I've seen to shame in this department (black is black on it).

I'm not sure if I agree entirely with this statement. I spent 7 years calibrating CRT/RPTV displays before getting my hands on a DLP display. While there's no question that the initial models didn't compare in black level to the best CRT models - the newer ones get a lot closer. Plus, their grayscales are MUCH more neutral particularly at the lower amplitude fields than the vast majority of CRT/RPTVs. So while the "blacks" may actually be a gray/black, at least they're not blue/black, red/black. or green/black which is the case on many CRT/RPTVs.

That said, the 5679 is also hindered in this regard by its gray cabinet.

Quote:
Texas Instruments' "Dark" tech reduces the amount of reflected light of "off" mirrors but it isn't close enough by a long shot to me. A DLP breakthrough that produces a completely black/off pixel when it should be (mirror in the "off" poisition, will be a big one. Until then dynamic iris and the resulting marking names for it will be needed.

In theory, this would be a good solution. However, I have never seen a dynamic iris that didn't negatively impact other areas of the picture.

Eliab
post #1130 of 2935
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quatre View Post

Eliab,

i just got my hls6767 and am interested in maybe getting your calibration services in the new year after i get fios. please pm your website/email/contact info.

PM sent.

Eliab
post #1131 of 2935
Quote:
Originally Posted by raab View Post

After a n00bish DVE calibration, I ended up with the following:

Digital NR - OFF
DNIe - Off
Mode - Movie
Contrast - 54
Brightness - 42
Sharpness - 0
Color - 48
Tint - G50/R50
Color Tone - Normal

This result is much better than what I had been able to do, simply by eye alone. I'm glad to know that the settings really do vary from set to set.

I know that I'm too late to sign up for your January Nor Cal tour, but would you forget the deadline and take a late entry exception for a Sacramento calibration? =)

Hello raab,

There is the possibility of fitting you in on the current tour. Please email me at here or call 323-679-4079 to see what we can do .

Regards,
post #1132 of 2935
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Announcements start at the CES show in early January and continue through the Spring. New models start arriving in stores in early Summer and continue into the Fall.

Many of you may already know this but from what I understand, they will be expanding the LED line to include other sizes, HDMI 1.3 will likely be employed, the cabinets will become even more streamlined, and the screen size will correlate more or less with the set's weight.

Eliab
post #1133 of 2935
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliab View Post

I'm not sure if I agree entirely with this statement. I spent 7 years calibrating CRT/RPTV displays before getting my hands on a DLP display. While there's no question that the initial models didn't compare in black level to the best CRT models - the newer ones get a lot closer. Plus, their grayscales are MUCH more neutral particularly at the lower amplitude fields than the vast majority of CRT/RPTVs. So while the "blacks" may actually be a gray/black, at least they're not blue/black, red/black. or green/black which is the case on many CRT/RPTVs.

That said, the 5679 is also hindered in this regard by its gray cabinet.


In theory, this would be a good solution. However, I have never seen a dynamic iris that didn't negatively impact other areas of the picture.

Eliab

As mentioned earlier in the thread, I've coated the inside of mine with little or no effect on bring the black level floor down.
If the dynamic iris of other DLPs actually has a negative impact that's not good!
post #1134 of 2935
If a dynamic is a 'patch' at best and not a real solution then Texas Instruments will need some breakthrough on their side of the equation to get DLP black levels where they should be (I'm talking full to nearly full screens of black here and low light scenes like when the lights go out in a scene and the screen should be pitch black for effect and you are meant to only here sounds for example, etc.)
Maybe going to full 1920x1080 chips without wobulation and/or adding additional facets to the micros that actually absorb light or something?
Until then, I have my room lit from behind the set and it isn't completely dark anymore like it was with my CRT-based RPTV - on well. And to make it clear to others, a lit room doesn't fix the black level of completely black, dark or low light scenes at all. It does help give your mind and eye a better reference of what the RPTV is telling you is suppose to be pitch black even though it isn't. Blacks in bright scenes look great because of perception by your eyes.
post #1135 of 2935
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Hester View Post

As mentioned earlier in the thread, I've coated the inside of mine with little or no effect on bring the black level floor down.
If the dynamic iris of other DLPs actually has a negative impact that's not good!

I haven't done this yet on my 5679. But I did on my old 5078 and it improved CR by about 8%.

Eliab
post #1136 of 2935
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Hester View Post

If a dynamic is a 'patch' at best and not a real solution then Texas Instruments will need some breakthrough on their side of the equation to get DLP black levels where they should be (I'm talking full to nearly full screens of black here and low light scenes like when the lights go out in a scene and the screen should be pitch black for effect and you are meant to only here sounds for example, etc.)
Maybe going to full 1920x1080 chips without wobulation and/or adding additional facets to the micros that actually absorb light or something?

I agree that this is an area that they should focus on - which I'm sure they are.

BTW, the best blacks that I've ever seen on a production display were on my old Princeton Graphics AF3.0HD monitor. Even better was the prototype SED model by Toshiba/Canon at last year's CES which has to be seen to be appreciated!

Quote:


Until then, I have my room lit from behind the set and it isn't completely dark anymore like it was with my CRT-based RPTV - on well. And to make it clear to others, a lit room doesn't fix the black level of completely black, dark or low light scenes at all. It does help give your mind and eye a better reference of what the RPTV is telling you is suppose to be pitch black even though it isn't. Blacks in bright scenes look great because of perception by your eyes.

Another way to increase perceived contrast ratio is to apply Velux covered matte borders around the bezel.

Eliab
post #1137 of 2935
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

I think that these sets can be calibrated in any mode to get the same results. Whenever the SM is entered, the set returns to Dynamic Mode automatically. By calibrating your set in Dynamic Mode, you can enter and exit the SM without having to change modes.

Yes they can. However, we usually reserve the Movie mode for SMPTE HD color space.

Eliab
post #1138 of 2935
Quote:
Originally Posted by rolandschemers View Post

His report says dynamic mode "cool 1" for normal color viewing, and dynamic mode with "warm 2" for B&W films.

We calibrate the display so that Cool1 is at D6500 (standard for color presentation) and Warm2 at 5400k (standard for B&W material).

Quote:


I'm guessing I could just set another mode to "warm 2" and use that mode for B&W without having switch from cool1/warm2 in the menu.

Yes. But not in the Movie mode as that is setup for a different color space.

Eliab
post #1139 of 2935
After Barry Vandenberg calibration: 'orlandodigital.tv'

Mode Dynamic-

Cont 100
Bright 55 Cable / 45 DVD
Sharp disabled
Color 55
Tint 0
Color Temp Cool 1
DNIe OFF
Color Gamut NORMAL
post #1140 of 2935
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephenpackers1@ View Post

After Barry Vandenberg calibration: 'orlandodigital.tv'
Tint 0

eh?
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