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SpyderTV Pro reviews. - Page 6

post #151 of 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post

Of course if you know what you are doing, there are workarounds for all but one of these "problems." And that last problem is the x,y,Y accuracy (or perhaps lack thereof depending on the display technology) of the Spyder2 sensor itself.

Color space inaccuracy at the telecine conversion and the ability of the light sensor to pick up these or display deviations from the presumed or assumed NTSC or ATSC x-y Y coordinates would I'd have thought be beyond the scope of a thread on SpiderPro. If you know what you are doing you would not be using the SpiderPro with its software. You would already have someone's software suit and all of the other essential calibration tools. You might or might not use the Spider as a sensor, but I somehow I suspect you would not. I am more of a real world individual and I'll accept some of the presumptions in a piece of inexpensive test gear, like the Spider and live with the potential and likely inaccuracies. Where are you going to stop? CIS-200? CIS-2? CIS1? The SpiderPro is really a good value and it will get you part of the way to heaven. However, should you want to get the most bang out of your display you will need better tools, better software, possibly pods with more then a few sensor points, and some experience--which may, as you imply be the most important criteria of all. A tool is still a tool and requires a skilled user to get the most out of it. But the full suite is necessary if you want to perform a full calibration. At some point you have to live within the standard deviation of your tool or use your eye as a corrective. Personally, I depend more on my eye than the tool but your damned right I begin with the metric I obtain from the tool.

For the record I work for no company with a direct stake in the calibration game save my own so my opinion is not colored by a desire to see any single product from any manufacturer succeed or fail. I am not pushing product A over B nor suggesting anything other than the Spider and its software only permits basic calibration using front panel TV controls. This is a thread on Spider so my comments are directed towards the Spider. I am not suggesting that any particular software suite is superior or suggesting which tools to use. I am arguing that the Spider is good value and that at some point there is a diminishing return on investment. If you want more accuracy you will need to go past Spider's software towards some other, from whomever you might choose and certainly towards a pod with more sensors and accuracy, though I am uncertain if even the most expensive sensor would necessarily discover any and all deviations from the presumed color space co-ordinates. Ultimately, video calibration requires tools but, like audio, is as much art as science.

Alan
post #152 of 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiblesolutions View Post

Ultimately, video calibration requires tools but, like audio, is as much art as science.

I'll agree with that. All I'm saying is that folks have been doing "full" calibrations with far less capable equipment than SpyderTV-Pro for years. Then again, I'm pretty sure there's a point of rapidly diminishing returns ... For instance, no hardware/software package is going to be able to "fix" the funky blue CRT gamma curve on my aging 50H82 no matter how much money you throw at it.

PS: It might be a bit nuts to buy a $2400 package to do your own calibration on a $500 (or even a $2000) display.
post #153 of 322
I am new to calibration would like to know if SpyderTV Pro would be good purchase for my TV.

I have a Mitsubishi WD-73732 73" 1080P DLP TV. The TV has the following controls: Brightness, Contrast, Color, Tint, Sharpness, Temp (low or high), Picture Setting (natural, bright, brilliant), Perfect Picture (individual color control for Red, Green, Blue, Cayan, Magenta,Yellow), Perfect Tint (individual Tint control for Red, Green, Blue, Cayan, Magenta,Yellow).

The postings I read states that TVPro has red, green, blue gains and cuts adjustment calibration. Are gains and cuts adjustments the same as Mitsubishi Perfect Color and Perfect Tint adjustments for the 6 colors I mentioned?

Any edcuation on this topic would be greatly appreciated.
post #154 of 322
hi

Gains and cuts are color specific contrast and brightness controls. These are used to set the luminance signal (gray scale). This is not the same as the perfect color controls.

regards

Gregg
post #155 of 322
My only experience with calibration is using AVIA-type disks. I am wondering if Spyder TVPro or some other similar set up in the $500 or less price range would be a worthwhile bridge between AVIA and ISF calibration--since the cost of full calibration is prohibitive for $3k and under projectors, for me anyway. How much better is Spyder TVPro than AVIA-type calibration? BTW, I noticed that www.hdtvexpert.com plans to have a review of Spyder TVPro this month. He seems to have "full bore" calibration equipment, so his review may provide some useful information on how well Spyder does as a cheaper alternative.

Jack
post #156 of 322
Jack,

I have AVIA, DVE, Monster/ISF, Sound and Vision, Calman, SpyderTVPRO, Spyder2PRO, and I've had televisions ISF'd.

If you can afford SpyderTVPRO, you can afford an ISF Calibration. The calibration will be cheaper but it's a one time deal. With SpyderTVPRO, you can calibrate all of your TVs, and those of your neighbors, friends, and relatives to boot! The nice thing about having SpyderTVPRO is that you can redo the calibration in a few months or whenever you like and it won't cost you a thing more.

It's way better than calibration discs because it relies on the Spyder 2 sensor and not your eyes. It also does grayscale and you can save and print out reports of your calibrations through the provided software. Last but not least, it's a heck of a lot of fun to use and in my opinion will result in better overall results than just using calibration discs.

Wayne
post #157 of 322
Wayne,

I still have not ordered the SpyderTVPRO, however, this is imminent. I have a couple of questions regarding its use. What sort of information does it provide post-calibration (e.g., colour temperature, graph of gray-scale, contrast ratio, etc....)? Also, do you know if there is an owner's manual for the SpyderTVPRO available online?

Thanks,
Scott
post #158 of 322
Scott,

Take a look at the attachments which I've included below. These are the settings that I'm currently using and are rendering me the best flesh tones I've ever had on any of my four projectors.

You can study the three pages (I had to break them up in three files because it was too large to upload as one) to see what SpyderTVPRO reports on. It's not what users of Calman or Rader's spreadsheet are used to but it's way better than AVIA/DVE etc... At least you get an idea of where you're at with the controls that you measure.

I haven't been to Colorvision's website in a while so I don't know if the manual is available there or not however I do have one that I found a ways back online and I could send it to you by email if you'll pm me and provide me with your address. It's in pdf form and I don't have a URL for it so I'll have to send it to you by email.

Wayne

 

SpyderTV Pro Report Spyder2PRO Samsung.pdf 40.3212890625k . file

 

SpyderTV Pro Report Spyder2PRO Samsung 2 .pdf 22.9521484375k . file

 

SpyderTV Pro Report Spyder2PRO Samsung 3 .pdf 20.583984375k . file
post #159 of 322
Thanks Wayne. The reports do not appear to display colour temperature. I assume that the SypderTV Pro software is designed to target 6504K. The owner's manual probably explains this. I have sent you a PM with my e-mail address. Thanks again.
post #160 of 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by mystery View Post

Jack,

I have AVIA, DVE, Monster/ISF, Sound and Vision, Calman, SpyderTVPRO, Spyder2PRO, and I've had televisions ISF'd.

If you can afford SpyderTVPRO, you can afford an ISF Calibration. The calibration will be cheaper but it's a one time deal. With SpyderTVPRO, you can calibrate all of your TVs, and those of your neighbors, friends, and relatives to boot! The nice thing about having SpyderTVPRO is that you can redo the calibration in a few months or whenever you like and it won't cost you a thing more.

It's way better than calibration discs because it relies on the Spyder 2 sensor and not your eyes. It also does grayscale and you can save and print out reports of your calibrations through the provided software. Last but not least, it's a heck of a lot of fun to use and in my opinion will result in better overall results than just using calibration discs.

Wayne

Wayne,

I appreciate your response and info. The ongoing utility of having my own calibration equipment is a very strong attraction. New equipment and changing brightness of lamps, etc. make a one time calibration, at several hundred dollars, much less attractive than a do-it-yourself capability. It is very useful hearing from someone with a lot of experience with the various do-it-yourself products available. Thanks again.

Jack
post #161 of 322
hi guys
SpyderTVPro is designed to target D65 - x.313 y .329
regards

Gregg
post #162 of 322
Sounds good, as well as idiot proof. I will be picking up this system and will post my results and opinions in a couple of weeks.
post #163 of 322
Scott,

I don't think you'll be sorry. It is idiot proof because it works for me!

Jack,

You're welcome! Good luck whichever way you decide to proceed.

Wayne
post #164 of 322
mystery,

What's your opinion on calman? Do u prefer it more than SpyderTV Pro for the advanced options? did it ever give u the color accuracy u achieved w SpyderTV Pro? Have u used calman after SpyderTV to compare results? I'm interested in ur opinion.
post #165 of 322
HDholic,

I have mixed feelings. I think Calman needs a user friendly manual which would help in understanding how to use it. Bill's report is a little too technical for me and I found myself flying by the seat of my pants most of the time and asking a lot of questions in the Calman forum which probably wouldn't have been needed if a help guide of some sort were available. It seems to me that it would take a lot less energy to devise a manual outlining the program and explaining it than it takes to individually answer people's questions. Bill and Derek are very good and responsive in this way but I think their time would be more productive if they would create a Calman for Dummies. Some will claim that they have had no problem in understanding it and I say well good for them. Others like myself would appreciate a guide that walks you through Calman. I'm hoping that with the new revisions coming, that there will be something like this.

Having said all of this, I did manage to muddle my way through it and through asking a lot of questions and trial and error I was able to do calibrations to my H78. I have a Da-Lite High Power 2.8 gain screen which seemed to give both me and Calman fits. Readings were extremely slow. I tried to do the offset to help with that but clumsily managed to lose those settings twice and the amount of work setting the offset up to me isn't something that I relish doing over a third time.

My results were pretty good though on screen. I do appreciate all of the data that Calman gives you about your display device. I must be honest though and confess that since buying SpyderTVPRO, I haven't used Calman. Part of the reason for this is that I broke my foot on Labour Day and am still recovering from it. But really for me, I've found that setting up and using SpyderTVPRO and the outstanding results have been an enjoyable experience. I've never seen such natural and even flesh tones ever before on any display device anywhere period!

Besides that, the thing is a blast to use. It isn't nearly as comprehensive as Calman and for those who are really into the nuts and bolts of calibrating, SpyderTVPRO would probably seem like a toy. But the results cannot be ignored or explained away and I wholeheartedly endorse the product and recommend it.

I do also want to say that I am looking forward to the new Calman versions coming up as they sound interesting. I just don't want to have to do the darned offset calculations because I don't have a lot of time in life and this is where SpyderTVPRO fits the bill FOR ME nicely because I can do a calibration with it in less than an hour.

I hope this helps.

Wayne
post #166 of 322
Has anyone calibrated a RP CRT HDTV w/ the spydertvpro? What I'd like to know is if you use the green filter attachment on the sensor or does the program specify it take it off?
post #167 of 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by alwynwilliams View Post

Hello,
After reading how good some of you had found this product,I looked it up here in the uk but found that it was not listed as being suitable for Plasmas
Listed were CRT LCD and Laptops only. I have tried in the past the Spyder tv and did not find that much good.The Plasma that I currently have is a 1920x1080p Pioneer have any of you tried this pro model with something like this?
Thanks
alwyn

Hi Alwyn,

SpyderTV Pro will calibrate all display types and will have no problems with the 5000 plasma which has gains/cuts in the user menu.

If you have questions then you know where to contact me!

Cheers,

Neil Davidson
post #168 of 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDholic View Post

Has anyone calibrated a RP CRT HDTV w/ the spydertvpro? What I'd like to know is if you use the green filter attachment on the sensor or does the program specify it take it off?


Anyone with an opinion?
post #169 of 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDholic View Post

Has anyone calibrated a RP CRT HDTV w/ the spydertvpro? What I'd like to know is if you use the green filter attachment on the sensor or does the program specify it take it off?

For a RP CRT HDTV it would remain on.
post #170 of 322
My Sony KDFE50A10 (RPLCD) does not have "gains/cuts" in the user menu.

Will SpyderTvPro allow me to adjust my grayscale by using the RGB Gains And RGB Bias adjustments in my service menu instead?

Thanks,
Bob
post #171 of 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRiff View Post

My Sony KDFE50A10 (RPLCD) does not have "gains/cuts" in the user menu.

Will SpyderTvPro allow me to adjust my grayscale by using the RGB Gains And RGB Bias adjustments in my service menu instead?

SpyderTVPro itself can not "allow" you to do anything that the TV's own adjustments won't let you do. Both SpyderTV and SpyderTVPro are only a software program and a measuring device, that can take readings and measurements, and then help to guide you when you want make changes and corrections in the TV's own assortment of allowable adjustments.
post #172 of 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla View Post

SpyderTVPro itself can not "allow" you to do anything that the TV's own adjustments won't let you do. Both SpyderTV and SpyderTVPro are only a software program and a measuring device, that can take readings and measurements, and then help to guide you when you want make changes and corrections in the TV's own assortment of allowable adjustments.

I guess I didn't state my question clearly.

Do the the RGB "gains and bias" adjustments in my service menu perform the same functions as the "gains/cuts in the user menu" that the Spyder is designed to use?

I assume they do, but would like to confirm it before I spend the money.

Bob
post #173 of 322
You're good to go Bob!

The only difference between the user and service menu location of cut/gains is that it's easier to get at them when they're in the user menu. To get into my service menu I have to tap my head repeatedly with one hand while rubbing my stomach with the other and pressing certain buttons on my remote with my toes.

Wayne
post #174 of 322
Wayne,

When you did your Optoma did you have the bevel on or off of the sensor? Would you redo it straight on to the screen or still pointed up at a 45 degree angle?


Thanks
John
post #175 of 322
John,

I left the filter on the sensor. The program actually tells you if/when to take it off/put it on.

I used to point the sensor up at the middle of the screen at a 45 degree angle but now I place it smack dab in the centre pointed at the screen and parallel to it. I've had the best results this way and it's also the method that Colorvision recommends.

Wayne
post #176 of 322
I need to redo mine. I left the filter in place also. I couldn't get a close reading with it off. My first calibration was a little off on the contrast and brightness but spot on the grey and made a HUGE difference in my picture (Even my wife noticed) I also have the HP and pointed it up at a 45 degree. My projector hangs a little on the low side for the HP. I will redo it and see if i get better results.

Thanks
John
post #177 of 322
John,

Use the Spyder2PRO crosshairs image to show you where to place the sensor. Otherwise just do the best you can by perhaps measuring the exact center or thereabouts of the screen. Then point it straight at the middle spot and away you go.

I'm glad you got good results so far. It might even improve.

Wayne
post #178 of 322
I'll give that a try. I have my computer hooked up the the projector too so I'll do both programs to do a more complete calibration. Colors on my computer are way off. I also picked up a few hints on the Optoma off this site for better calibration. I have the DVDO HD and I am interested in the Calman using the VP30 serial control to do a full automated calibration. Seams like a good way to get HD calibrated without purchasing an acupel. I was thinking of upgrading to the VP30 because I need more inputs anyway.


Thanks for the tips Wayne.

John
post #179 of 322
I just purchased the SpyderTV Pro but am awaiting delivery of my new projector before using it. For calibration purposes, I am considering placing the projector close to the screen in order to obtain a small image say 3-4' across. I don't know if this will make any real difference, however, it should theoretically improve the accuracy due to the much higher Ft-lamberts off of the screen. Does anybody see a problem with this approach, i.e., is there any reason to believe that this will affect the contrast and brightness settings as compared to having the projector positioned for routine use?
post #180 of 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott B View Post

I just purchased the SpyderTV Pro but am awaiting delivery of my new projector before using it. For calibration purposes, I am considering placing the projector close to the screen in order to obtain a small image say 3-4' across. I don't know if this will make any real difference, however, it should theoretically improve the accuracy due to the much higher Ft-lamberts off of the screen. Does anybody see a problem with this approach, i.e., is there any reason to believe that this will affect the contrast and brightness settings as compared to having the projector positioned for routine use?


I would think you'll get the best results with the projector in it's natural viewing location.

John
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