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SpyderTV Pro reviews. - Page 3

post #61 of 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coyotes View Post

Guys,
Please be certain when you are upscaling through your NTSC DVD players to set the output for RGB and not Y/Pr/Pb. This way, the display will process the incoming color matrix properly (hopefully!). Otherwise, you are sending NTSC signals, which will be decoded in the HD Colorspace ('709) and the resulting colorimetry will be improperly displayed.

Unless the DVD player properly twists the component space from 601 to 709 as part of the upconversion, of course.
post #62 of 322
Thanks for the info guys! It should be interesting when the new DVE disc comes out in HD.

Wayne
post #63 of 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear5k View Post

Unless the DVD player properly twists the component space from 601 to 709 as part of the upconversion, of course.

Few do, especially at $39.00!
post #64 of 322
I'm pretty sure the HD-A1 outputs 601 instead of 709 - even for HD-DVD (known error I believe).

Even with the decoder error, the calibration of the component inputs was significantly better than no cal at all...perhaps my eye is just not trained enough to notice the colorspace conversion error yet.

Mike
post #65 of 322
First off, thanx Mystery for the great review and help via PM.. Because of your review, I decided to take the plunge and purchase the sypdertvpro..

Your review showed us how easy the wizard was and what kind of awesome results you will get.. Thanx again....

Soooo..

I will be breif on this review..

I have a sony 60a200 SXRD lcd.. Right out of the box, picture looked awesome.. After I used the AVIA, even looked better.. WOW...

NOW.....

After using the spydertvpro today, (57minutes, as I was picky with the grey scale, kept going back and forth until perection), what I got, was.... WOOOOOWWWW, AWESOME picture!!!

I really could not believe that the picture could get that much better.. Skin tones are now dead on, and blacks are, well very black, yet keeping detail..

The wizard was sooo easy to use.. and very fun..

To anyone wondering if the price for the sypder is worth it, answer.. YES!!

I had so much fun, that now I will tackle my computer monitor now..

Awesome product...
post #66 of 322
Hello,
After reading how good some of you had found this product,I looked it up here in the uk but found that it was not listed as being suitable for Plasmas
Listed were CRT LCD and Laptops only. I have tried in the past the Spyder tv and did not find that much good.The Plasma that I currently have is a 1920x1080p Pioneer have any of you tried this pro model with something like this?
Thanks
alwyn
post #67 of 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by alwynwilliams View Post

Hello,
After reading how good some of you had found this product,I looked it up here in the uk but found that it was not listed as being suitable for Plasmas
Listed were CRT LCD and Laptops only. I have tried in the past the Spyder tv and did not find that much good.The Plasma that I currently have is a 1920x1080p Pioneer have any of you tried this pro model with something like this?
Thanks
alwyn


I will trying my spydertvpro with pioneer maybe this week.. At our store, we have the elite line (1080p model will be my first test),,

When loading the software for the spydertvpro, it does give an option for plasma displays, and everthing else on the market..

Hope this helps for now..
post #68 of 322
alwyn,

SpyderTVPro will calibrate everything except your Mother-in-law's false teeth!

Seriously though, as maud'dib mentioned, the software allows for any type of display device that you could think of.

maud'dib,

I'm so glad that you are happy with your purchase and that the calibration went so well. I'm not surprised and I am happy to have helped you. The results really are magnificent aren't they? Well worth the price and even more if you ask me. And you're right, the skin tones are really incredible. The ease of use and fun factor that you mentioned are things I noticed as well.

Congratulations!

Gino in Australia,

Have you had a chance to use your's yet?

Wayne
post #69 of 322
One more question: Can the Spydertv pro software output a calibration report? If so, how much info does it have?

Thanks,
post #70 of 322
Hello and thank you for your replies regarding the possable use of this with a plasma using a tv signal,I sent an e mail to Colour vision and they have repied that it is not compatable for plasma when tv generated only when used by computer.
Thanks once again for your help
alwyn
post #71 of 322
anbjornk,

Please refer to post #23 which has attachments of calibration report examples. That report didn't include color and tint because I wasn't measuring for those however the program does allow for that if your display device has those controls.
post #72 of 322
alwyn,

I'm not really sure what you mean or what Colorvision meant. SpyderTVPro can't calibrate TV signals going into your plasma but it can measure the test pattern results from the disc that goes into either your DVD player or your computer's disc drive. If you wish to calibrate your plasma and you use a computer as your source, then you'll have to have a laptop with the software on it in order to do the measurements. So, the computer would output the video to the plasma, displaying the test patterns, and the laptop would be connected to the colorimeter taking the measurements. A simple stand alone DVD player can also be used to send the test patterns to the plasma, and in this case you could use either the computer or the laptop to take the measurements.

Wayne
post #73 of 322
Thank you for your reply,what was said to me was that the tv pro was not intended for plasma tv,that was the reason they did not list it .What was intended for the plasma tv market they said was the Spyder tv kit. But I follow what you say and perhaps one of the forum members who has used this pro version on a plasma can come back and give some info. I did try the Spyder tv kit out on both the pdp 506 xde and also on my latest panel the 1920x1080p on both accasions I found the recomended readings not at all suitable for my prefered viewing,that was why I asked about this model.
Thanks once again,I must say I always find this forum most helpfull
post #74 of 322
Thanks again Mystery. One more question though Is it possible to get a CIE chart printout ?
post #75 of 322
That isn't a part of the software at this time. I don't know if there are plans for it with SpyderTVPro because they probably want people to spend the big bucks on the Colorfacts product if they're going to really get serious about calibrating.

But you can go the Calman route and get the CIE chart that way. It only adds $100.00 to the SpyderTVPro purchase and gives people who are so inclined, a little more meat to the detail of their calibrations.

Wayne
post #76 of 322
Hello all - my DLP allows for individual control of the primaries and secondaries for saturation and tint (user menu). Does Pro offer any functionality above thye standard SpyderTV that would leverage this adjustability?
post #77 of 322
stixx,

You're a lucky guy to have those controls. Or, you could be cursed, depending on how you look at it.

STVPro doesn't delve into primaries and secondaries. RGB Gains/Cuts, contrast, brightness, color, tint, and color temperature is what it will measure. The good news is that it not only measures these controls, but will also suggest appropriate changes to be made and they really work!

I highly recommend Calman for you. I've read a thread somewhere about a Panasonic projector owner who also had these controls and was able to use Calman to adjust them. Perhaps Bill or someone can assist here.

Wayne
post #78 of 322
mystery,

I have a Sanyo Z4 that is still running pretty much stock out of the box. I have been waiting for spydertv pro and a review before trying this out myself.

In addition to your standard controls of Brightness, Contrast etc, the Z4 has access in the user menu to RGB White Balance(lightens/darkens tones), an overall Gamma adjustment, R/G/B Gain(contrast of color), R/G/B Offset(brightness), R/G/B Gamma(desired neutal color). My question, is does spydertv pro account for all these adjustments? I am assuming Offset is equivalent to "Cuts"?

Thanks for the info.
post #79 of 322
LVS,

It does RGB Gains (contrast), and RGB Cuts (brightness). Also Color temperature like Low, Medium, High. There's color, tint, brightness and contrast. It doesn't specifically deal with some of your controls and some of mine also. For instance, I have Cinema, Normal and Vivid picture control as well as Film, Video, and TV Gamma controls. None of these are measured by STVPro. You have to choose a setting yourself and then calibrate from there. In my case, I used Cinema and TV. The program uses the controls that are set up as a springboard and then takes off and does it's thing. So if you don't know what the best setting is for some of these controls, it'll require a bit of research or experimentation. My projector seems best when in Cinema and TV modes according to the reviews that I've read so I start with that and it works out great.

Wayne
post #80 of 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by mystery View Post

I highly recommend Calman for you. I've read a thread somewhere about a Panasonic projector owner who also had these controls and was able to use Calman to adjust them. Perhaps Bill or someone can assist here.

Don't worry, he's got it. Thanks for the rec, though!
post #81 of 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear5k View Post

Don't worry, he's got it. Thanks for the rec, though!

CalMAN appears to be a very good program, it just is becoming a bit frustrating for a "noob" like me. I was hoping Pro might be "hold your hand" a bit more than CalMAN does.

The big issue I am dealing with is getting my primary's "color balance" aligned within the "RGB Level Tracking" chart. Green is at approx 105%; Blue at 100%; Red at 94%. This is consistent across all gray levels. It would seem "obvious" to me to red a bit as an initial step. After doing this though, my graph looks like the rocky mountains.

Again, not unhappy with CalMAN, just frustrated.
post #82 of 322
No problem Bill! I figure that you can't have too many calibration toys.

stixx,

I highly recommend the SpyderTVPRO as well. Your frustration levels will drop to zero because the program does hold your hand.

For anyone who is interested, yesterday I decided to play with one of the software programs that comes along with the SpyderTVPro. I hadn't used Spyder2PRO before and since the documentation in the envelope suggested that HTPC users would benefit from using both programs, I thought I'd give it a try.

First off, I used Spyder2PRO to calibrate my computer monitor as a preliminary test to give me a feel for the wizard and an impression of the software's capabilities. I had already calibrated the monitor a couple of months ago using Spyder2Express. There does appear to be an improvement but I'm not concerned with accurate colors on my PC monitor because I basically use it to read only.

However, critical viewing is done through this same computer which doubles as my HTPC feeding video out via HDMI and DVI cables to my H78. This is my primary means to view DVDs although I do also use my Oppo DVD player as a secondary source.

The information sheet explains that it's best to calibrate the entire chain from source to display device when using an HTPC in order to get the best results. I had ignored this advice when I first got SpyderTVPRO because I had found the explanatory information a little ambiguous and wasn't really sure whether this step was necessary. Thus, I only originally calibrated with SpyderTVPRO and I've posted my musings on that earlier in this thread.

In doing research pertaining to Spyder2PRO, I discovered that it's important to establish a good relationship between your HTPC's video card and the display device that's interacting with it. Your video card may be set up correctly to display accurate colors to your PC monitor but that doesn't necessarily mean that the same holds true when a projector for instance is the display device used in conjunction with a PC.

So, since the documentation suggests a SpyderTVPro calibration followed by a run with the Spyder2PRO, and then finally another one with SpyderTVPRO, I thought I'd give it a go.

Using Spyder2PRO to calibrate a projector (which is really a misnomer as what you're really calibrating is the ability of the PC's video card to accurately send colors to the projector based on the test readings that the software receives off of the projection screen) is very interesting and a somewhat different experience than using SpyderTVPRO. It actually reminded me of the readings that I'm familiar with through Calman.

After youve mounted the Spyder on a tripod, you load and launch the included software package that plays back a suite of colors. As these colors are displaying, the Spyder instrument is taking readings and sending them back to your computer via USB. Keep in mind that the way the Spyder2PRO works is its calibration software plays back a series of carefully selected colors via your computer into the projector, and then assesses the difference between the ideal colors and those that your projector is displaying. It then adjusts parameters in your graphics card and makes it so the colors that are being sent to your projector are the ones that will result in the perfect colors as theyre projected.

Playing back the calibration routine, it appears as a sequence of colors, starting from the darkest red up to a very bright version of red, and then does the same for green and blue. At the end of the test, it sends a sequence of grayscale images. Each one of the shades of color is on screen for about five seconds, and it then cycles on to the next color in the sequence.

The software then creates a display profile that will be stored on the computer and will be used by the graphics card as a reference when it boots. Another nice feature is the fact that it also gives you the option to create other profiles for times when your projector will be used with different ambient light levels. My video card is BFG's Nvidia 6600 GT and it allows me to add as many of these color profiles as I wish. You can access the profiles by either going into your display file or even easier, utilize the Profile Chooser application that comes built into the software.

Since Spyder2PRO's job is to referee that delicate interplay between computer and graphics card, you cant use the Spyder2PRO to calibrate your DVD player as it plays through the projector, for instance, or your cable TV box or PVR. Thats because the Spyder2PRO works by adjusting that interplay between a computers graphics card and its display by reading those parameters that are a result of a precise calibration routine. As you calibrate it the first time, the software creates a file that is later read by your graphics card as your computer boots, and as a result your graphics card has learned to deliver perfectly-calibrated colors every time. So, the Spyder2PRO has limited use in the home theater. But if youre playing back movies in your home theater using a projector and your computer as a source, youre in luckthose colors can be perfectly calibrated by Spyder2PRO. This system should be particularly advantageous for those who do presentations, and want to make sure their colors are true.

One interesting thing I noticed is that the Spyder2Pro software guides you to the EXACT spot to place the colorimeter. There's a crosshatch page in the wizard and all you do is ensure that the shadow of the sensor is centered directly over where the horizontal and vertical lines meet in the middle. I found this odd since I've always situated the device in the bottom third of the screen and had it facing up toward the middle in order to avoid the shadow influencing the measurement. Apparently, Datacolor insists that this is the proper method to use the instrument and I thought that I had nothing to lose by trying it this way so that's what I did. As I thought about it, I realized that the crosshairs of the image coming from the lens were hitting my tripod just behind the Spyder sensor like a bullseye and it occurred to me that it did actually seem logical to place the sensor in this manner.

So this calibration was the second of a three part function. I had already as mentioned earlier used SpyderTVPRO. So the idea is that now Spyder2PRO is better able to decipher how to adjust the video card in the computer so as to best interact with the projector.

I then did the final step and re-calibrated the projector with SpyderTVPRO and this time I left the colorimeter exactly where I had placed it during the Spyder2PRO tests.

The color profile created by the software is only useful specifically for my projector. I tried to view the PC monitor using this profile and it was very inaccurate. No matter, it's very easy to revert to an earlier profile created just for the monitor. But the good news is, the results after doing all of this work indicated that it was worth it! Using SpyderTVPRO on a projector linked to an HPTC will provide excellent results as I'd learned in the past couple of weeks. However, going this route and also implementing Spyder2PRO in the process is a highly recommendable procedure in my estimation. I have improved upon what was already a satisfying image. I've been able to qualify this by going to some scenes in movies that have always bothered me although to a much less extent after the original SpyderTVPRO calibration.

So anyone using an HTPC in their home theater should use Spyder2PRO as well as SpyderTVPRO in order to calibrate the entire chain or pipeline of video from source to display device.

I want to thank Charlie White at Presentation Masters as I relied on his review to assist me.

Here are my results which are every bit as fabulous on screen as they are on paper.

 

SpyderTV Pro Report HTPC H78 Post Spyder2PRO Calibration Page 1.pdf 40.5556640625k . file

 

SpyderTV Pro Report HTPC H78 Post Spyder2PRO Calibration Page 2.pdf 22.59765625k . file

 

SpyderTV Pro Report HTPC H78 Post Spyder2PRO Calibration Page 3.pdf 20.564453125k . file
post #83 of 322
Thanks for the information Mystery.

Has anyone tried the STVPro on a DLP RPTV? I am aware that Colorvision says the STVPro is capable of analyzing a DLP based display, but I have read reports that suggest a colorimeter such as the SpyderTV may have problems with the high gain screen on many RPTVs. I am hoping to get some real world testimony.

Also, someone mentioned that there was an upgrade for existing STV owners. Does anyone have a link? I'm having trouble finding it on Colorvision's site.

Thanks,
Mark
post #84 of 322
You're welcome Mark!

That's interesting about a possible problem with some RPTVs. I've had no problem with my Da-Lite High Power 2.8 gain screen but then again that's reflective and not a direct light shining at the colorimeter.

Here's a pdf of a page from a document that I have which stated that STV owners could upgrade to STVPRO for a certain fee. That may have been an early determination which has since been under review as they have told a fellow AVS member that they are still deciding what to do about that. Here's the file:

 

SpyderTV_PRO_Reviewer's_Guide_Final.pdf 23.630859375k . file
post #85 of 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by stixx View Post

CalMAN appears to be a very good program, it just is becoming a bit frustrating for a "noob" like me. I was hoping Pro might be "hold your hand" a bit more than CalMAN does.

The big issue I am dealing with is getting my primary's "color balance" aligned within the "RGB Level Tracking" chart. Green is at approx 105%; Blue at 100%; Red at 94%. This is consistent across all gray levels. It would seem "obvious" to me to red a bit as an initial step. After doing this though, my graph looks like the rocky mountains.

Again, not unhappy with CalMAN, just frustrated.

Stixx - Go ahead and e-mail me either a PDF or your latest workbook, and let's see what we can do.

Bill
post #86 of 322
Thanks for the update. I sent them an email regarding the upgrade a few days ago, but I haven't heard from them. Hopefully more information will become available shortly.

Mark

Quote:
Originally Posted by mystery View Post

You're welcome Mark!

That's interesting about a possible problem with some RPTVs. I've had no problem with my Da-Lite High Power 2.8 gain screen but then again that's reflective and not a direct light shining at the colorimeter.

Here's a pdf of a page from a document that I have which stated that STV owners could upgrade to STVPRO for a certain fee. That may have been an early determination which has since been under review as they have told a fellow AVS member that they are still deciding what to do about that. Here's the file:
post #87 of 322
I contacted Colorvision not more than 3 weeks ago, and they responded there would be an upgrade for the SpyderTV users to SpyderTVPro (software only). They quoted $369.00 to me.
post #88 of 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Bailey View Post

I contacted Colorvision not more than 3 weeks ago, and they responded there would be an upgrade for the SpyderTV users to SpyderTVPro (software only). They quoted $369.00 to me.


This is the reply they sent me on the 14th of this month, with no price mentioned.


"Ticket ID: xxx-xxxxxx
Subject: Will there be a SpyderTV Pro ugrade?
Department: Digital Imaging - USA/Canada
Priority: Medium
Status: Open

John,

Presently we are working on an upgrade/update path to the new SpyderTVPRO package. We will have some info soon.

ColorVision USA Customer Support
1-800-554-8688"
post #89 of 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by muad'dib View Post

I will trying my spydertvpro with pioneer maybe this week.. At our store, we have the elite line (1080p model will be my first test),,

When loading the software for the spydertvpro, it does give an option for plasma displays, and everthing else on the market..

Hope this helps for now..

Just wondered if you had done the test that you mentioned with the pro and the pioneer 1920x1080p
Thanks
alwyn
post #90 of 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by alwynwilliams View Post

Hello,
After reading how good some of you had found this product,I looked it up here in the uk but found that it was not listed as being suitable for Plasmas
Listed were CRT LCD and Laptops only. I have tried in the past the Spyder tv and did not find that much good.The Plasma that I currently have is a 1920x1080p Pioneer have any of you tried this pro model with something like this?
Thanks
alwyn


Alwyn

I am getting the impression that you are confusing the Spyder2pro with SpyderTVpro???

Alvin
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