Revel Owners Thread - Page 60

It's a happy day for owners of the Ultima Salon series 1.. After many months of waiting, it seems the replacement midrange drivers are becoming available! I am most anxiously waiting for mine so I can get these babies up to full speed again..

I remain cautiously optimistic, although I wonder what these new units will make of all the much hyped "hand tuning" of crossovers and drivers that they were touting originally with these models.. I'm also not at all impressed with the replacement bass driver that was supplied recently. It was at best a pale imitation of the original unit as it wasn't a good visual match and the motor assembly was at best half sized of the original. By a stroke of good fortune, I was able to repair the original (don't ask how - got lucky) and continue to use it although I may need to use this "'replacement" if the problem pops up again.

In any case the new mids will almost have to be better than the midrange buzz that I've had for the past 8 months or so. I hope they are a good match because these speakers really did sound amazing before the driver issues.

I also have a quick question for you audio sages out there.. I recently "spiked" the Ultimas and was pretty impressed with the improvement. Not night and day, but it seemed like a definite increase in "clarity" and "depth" .. (impressive considering the other issues with these) Anyway.... What's the deal with the spikes? what benefits do they usually give? what are they doing that makes this improvement? isolation? coupling to floor by focusing weight? I didn't bother for a long time because I was fearful for my carpet, and I didn't really think it would matter that much - but I guess they don't include those things for nothing after all. If you have them - use them

wow .. nothing but tumbleweeds and chirping crickets around here these days I guess..

Hi Ecs,
I asked the same question some months ago about the spikes and I couldn't get a response either. I could find very little about the science behind it though I think I saw the word decoupling rather than coupling. I kinda' thought that spikes might be audio "voodoo" but you say you hear a difference and it's hard to believe that Revel and others would waste money on these beuatifully machined pieces of audio jewelry. I can't say I noticed any difference. Maybe another thread would be a better place to ask but if you find out anything, please let me know.
All the best,
gtrman

There is an article on Audioholics that discusses the effects of speaker spikes and cones here: http://www.audioholics.com/education...019s-the-point

The article does more go into the effect of spikes and cones on speakers resting on stands, but I thought it was an interesting read.

Thanks for the info and links! I'll do some reading... Like I said, I was skeptical myself, but did notice an improvement - not huge, but definitely noticable..

Well - new midrange drivers soldered in.. will give report when things settle down, odd stuff going on now, not sure what's up..

Mark,

Long time no hear!!! I need your help, I am currently thinking about upgrading my Primuses speakers and I am looking at Axiom????, Emos ERTs, and Swans all in the 1k to 1.5k. Also among those the Revel F12 for the fronts. Can you please help me if you have heard any comparisons of these with the Pimuses? email: woodsart@juno.com.

Thanks, for any help!
Rob

I love how you described the activity on this thread. We are all quietly enjoying our Revels I guess.

Iam listening yo Neil Young---Live at Massey Hall on my F52's (don't hear any birds chirpin') as I am reading this, nothing really needs to be said....................but; close to heaven!

Good call Alex I suspect you are probably right..
I plan on enjoying mine quite a bit more myself with the new midranges installed. I was concerned at first that there was something amiss, but upon listening again this evening I think all is well.. My amp (Simaudio Moon W5) seems to take a long time to get itself together again when it is shut down for an extended period, such as for driver removal and replacement.

Writing "I love my Revel's, they're the best speakers..." won't gain much traction nor help anyone. But if you would like to hear from this Revel owner ok. I love my Studio 2's!

So here's an interesting update from my midrange driver replacement saga.. Even though things got a bit better after the amp warmed up again fully, as I continued to listen - it became more apparent that things still weren't "right". There was tons of treble and bass, and tons of detail, but the mids still seemed oddly "recessed" or "distant" for lack of a better word. Music was still lacking in "body" and realism (you could hear every string plucked, but not the body of the guitar anymore..) odd.. unsatisfying..

I consulted Revel one more time about possible options to "rebalance" things and was politely informed that the new drivers were all within original spec, and that no other tuning was possible - or should be required.. So in as many words - this is as good as it's going to get..

I was fairly disheartend at that time as somthing was obviously wrong, but I had no idea what I could do about it. I came to the conclusion that unless the drivers were somehow faulty, the only other variable was the solder connection that my buddy and I made to the stock wire. It appeared to be secure at the time, so I felt that this was just grasping at straws. But - I was desperate, and since I couldn't think of anything else, I decided to try removing the drivers again, cleaning the terminals, and cutting back the internal wire a bit to get a good clean end and just taping it directly to the terminals to see if it made any difference....

Lo and behold.. problem solved!! All former glory had been returned, and everything sounded as it should again! It actually WAS the solder connection fouling things up for some reason... I was both ecstatic and admittedly a bit surprised. Amazing how such a small difference could impact the sound so much. Now that the issue has been resolved, I need to come up with a good permanent connection. Obviously solder works, as this is how the originals were attached, but I guess either my skills or materials are not up to the task. Any other suggestions? Shrink-tubing, decent quality spade connectors? Some kind of "magic" solder? (I used radioshack 4% silver solder last time)...

Entertaining all good ideas..

I'm looking for an upgrade for my current ADS L1290/2 speakers that I"ve been enjoying for the past 24 years.

So far my "want to audition" list includes Von Schweikert VR33, Salk HT2-TL, VMPS RM30, Usher Mini Dancer 2, and Revel F32.

Hopefully in the within the next couple weeks I will be able to audition the Usher Mini Dancer 2 and Revel F32 at a dealer about 1.5 hours from me. He also encouraged me to bring my current speakers for comparision.

It has been suggested to me by a speaker designer that the metal tweeters in the Revel F32 and Usher Mini Dancer 2 probably won't suit me since I'm use to the smooth high end of my ADS soft dome tweeters and that I would find them fatiguing after awhile. Is this true?

Any guidance or suggestions/comments are greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

Well Saturn94- It looks like you are entertaining an interesting selection of choices.. I have heard that said about metal tweeters as well, but I think that final implementation is probably the far more critical factor. Like anything else, some will suit you and some won't. I've heard metal domes sound horrid and also great in different speakers..

It's old and tired and not very useful advice, but I'm afraid the only way to really know will be to actually listen.. What some will find "smooth" others will see as overly dull, and what some consider "lively" some others might find fatiguing after a while.. I suspect it depends on a person's hearing at those upper frequencies as much as anything else. You'll have to listen as long as you can and let your ears be the judge, but with that set of contenders, it should be nice work

Thanks for the reply.

In the past I had heard some speakers with metal tweeters and did not like them. However, that was a long time ago and they were not in the price range I'm considering now.

Your are right about that "old and tired" advice. Everyone has different taste/hearing/preferences. A prime example is my recent audition of the Magnepan 1.7s. I've read nothing but great things about them so I made a couple trips to a couple dealers to audition them. They certainly are very nice speakers, but overall I prefered my ADSs over the Maggies.

The speakers I've listed are a result of reading these forums, reviews, and recomendations from owners and dealers. I'm finding that locating a place to audition these speakers is the biggest challenge.

By posting here I was hoping that I would find some Revel F32 owners here that can give me some feedback/advice. For instance, using your terms, are they "smooth" or "lively"?

Well.. I can only speak about my first gen Salons, but I feel that they give plenty of detail and "liveliness" without being at all grating or harsh. Some others have described them as "too polite".. So obviously no consensus there - even on the same speaker.. I'm sure there are some F32 owners out there that could chime in, but activity here has been a bit slow as of late.

Thanks.

I do not own the Performa F32, but I did some extensive auditioning a couple of years back. I would describe it as a "smooth" performer...well balanced but not at all boring in any way. I really liked the them for what they could do but found them to be lacking somewhat in the bottom end. The shop proprietor said that I needed to add the B15 subwoofer to round things out. That would have brought the total bill to $7k, which happens to be the price for the F52's.

I am hoping to audition the F52's soon (if I can find them somewhere!)

I have the F52 and can tell you that, even in an untreated (for now) 17' x 18' x 8' carpeted room, the highs are not at all harsh or fatiguing even after hours of music listening at ~90dBs. They are a little bright, but I think that's due to the lack of treatments and furniture and am in the process of procuring the materials to build some acoustic panels. They should be up in a few weeks.

I can also tell you that, for music set at full range, they will hit pretty deep and hard. Enough to shake the house. I also have the B15a sub, but it is not required for most 2 channel music. I listen to just about everything from classical to hard rock/R&B/Hip hop. Originally, I thought I was going to be split 50/50 between music and HT, but after listening to the F52s I am mostly listening to music with a movie thrown in here and there.

I live in SoCal and if you're in the area you can bring your music/movies and audition them for yourself. Well, once I'm done remodeling my house and finish my man cave that is.

Thank you for the feedback.

I'm not so concerned about the low bass as I have a quality sub (SVS 16-46PC+) for the low end. Sounds like it's certainly worth an audition. Hopefully that will happen soon.



Thank you for the feedback and the offer to audition them in your home.

Unfortunately, since I'm in southeast VA, I won't be able to take advantage of your generous offer.

However, there is a dealer about 1.5 hours from me that has the F32's available for auditioning. Hopefully I'll be able to do that next week. He also wants me to hear a pair of Usher Mini Dancer 2's which also has alot of fans. He also suggested I bring my current speakers (ADS L1290/2) so we can do a direct comparison, so I think I will so I can get a better idea how they compare even though it will be with different equipment in a different room. Would you suggest I listen to my own speakers in his room first so I can get an idea how they sound there before moving on to the other speakers?

My goal is to find a significant upgrade for my ADS speakers that I've been enjoying for 24 years, not something that's just as good or slightly better. I still really like my ADS's and will keep on enjoying them if I don't find something I think is enough of an upgrade to justify spending $3k-$4k.

I'm glad to hear they do well with a variety of music since we play all kinds of music in my home (although I could do without some of the music my partner plays). They will also be used for movies as a part of my 5.1 system. Sound levels will range from background music to loud music/reference level movies.

The only thing that concerns me in your post is the statement "They are a little bright...". I'm sure it may depend on the room (mine is about 14x25 with a cathedral ceiling open to an upstairs landing, carpeted floor, a couple of stuffed fabric chairs and a leather sofa). I'll guess I just have to hear for myself to see what I think (then again, at 47 I may have just enough high frequency hearing loss to smooth it out).

If you don't mind, I'm sending you a PM about prices (don't want to violate forum rules).

Thanks again.

Remember, my room is completed untreated with no furniture in it at the moment. No sofas, no tables, nada. Currently it's just four bare painted cement walls. One corner with a is partially brick with a freestanding metal fireplace and another has an 8' sliding glass door with no curtains yet either. I'm sure most, if not all, speakers will sound a little bright in that scenario. I'll have to report back once I get furniture and treatments up.

Thanks for the clarification. It sounds like my room with curtains and furniture would be a bit less "lively" than yours in it's current state.

As far as acoustic treatments, I really want to avoid that if possible (it would be difficult to do they way my room is shaped and set up, and another expense I'd like to avoid). I'm pretty confident that a great speaker should sound great in my room since my current speakers do very well in my room without any special treatments.

I know some speakers come with controls to make minor adjustments to tweeter output, etc (my ADS's have a switch to lower tweeter output by 1.5db if desired. I have it in the "flat" position.). Do the F32's have any such adjustments? If not, I guess it's not a big deal since my processor (Anthem AVM20) allows me to make such tweeks on each input that's independent of the tone controls (which I do not use, BTW).

Thank you again for your feedback and help.

Yes, I believe they do. They also have a "Contour" control knob to facilitate speaker proximity to the rear/side walls.

That's good to know. I didn't think about it, but the "Contour" adjustment may be very helpful since I'm restricted in how far the speakers can be from the wall behind them (2ft max from the front of the speaker to the wall behind them).

im a happy owner of the 52's, i thought i would add some other thoughts to the equation.

1. If you are integrating a music and movies system and you have not already purchased your electronics, you may want to consider a system that offers audyssey. Im using an integra pre-amp processor and have used the upgraded audyssey pro to calibrate my system. My roots as a so called "auphiophile" left me skeptical about this type of sound processing but the results were astounding. Frankly speaking the corrections made to the sound in two channel music listening were so significant that i would not consider listening to the system without it engaged. It is far more effective and easier to implement than sound attenuation product like tube traps and endless hours of moving speakers for optimum sound.

2. When I upgraded from my 20 year old speakers, Snell C3's i found the world of high end loudspeakers had changed in a big way. The best way i can summarize the change was in a new level of ultra detail. The new generation of speakers can deliver such incredible level of resolution that at first i found them sounding bright. After owning the ADS for as long as you have, which i was a big fan, I would not be surprised that most of the high end speakers you want to audition may be perceived as bright. After some time i was able to distinguish within my tastes which sounded accurate or true and which sounded harsh. A couple of other brands that i found to be pleasing that seemed to more romance the highs were the vienna acoustics and sonus faber.


3. The Revels will offer incredible sound for watching movies and can play at insanely high levels. They offer very high quality matching center channels and their ability to do both movies and music well was one of the big reasons i selected them. I almost purchased the usher dancers but at the time they did not have matching centers and was suspect at their ability to deliver the movie experience as well as Revel (their ability to deliver two channel was fantastic).

4. Finally as a huge snell fan i was won over with a similar sound created by the revels and the designer for both Kevin Voeks. Kevin/Revels approach to design, testing and engineering is state of the art.

good luck and i hope this rambling post can help. in the end its all about what sounds good to your ears. If you are interested in the Revels you can often find used or discounted 52s for $3500. They will get you the improved tweeter and more bottom end over the 32's

peter

The Sonus Faber Liuto is also on my list to audition. I need to decide if I want "romanced" highs vs. perhaps more resolution from the F52. Granted, I have never read a bad word about the F52.


In addition to the F52, I would also be looking to replace a complete 7.1 system. So what's it like to have a colony of speakers that cost as much as a good used car? Seriously, the folks at Harman said that my Lexicon RV-8 is a bit underpowered for the F52...tried to sell me on using the RV-8 as a pre-amp and getting an RX-7 power amp. It sounds like the F52 Revels will take whatever you can give them, so maybe an upgrade of at least the front channel amp would be worthwhile. But the RV-8 does seem to have endless power and stability with difficult speaker loads.


Any suggested venues other than Audiogon and eBay? Thanks.

AR

In addition to the F52, I would also be looking to replace a complete 7.1 system. So what's it like to have a colony of speakers that cost as much as a good used car?

heavenly!! Im running f52's, c52, m22's rear, 2- JL audio f113's. electronics, integra 9.8 pre-pro and sherbourn 200watt x 7 amp.

Seriously, the folks at Harman said that my Lexicon RV-8 is a bit underpowered for the F52...tried to sell me on using the RV-8 as a pre-amp and getting an RX-7 power amp. It sounds like the F52 Revels will take whatever you can give them, so maybe an upgrade of at least the front channel amp would be worthwhile. But the RV-8 does seem to have endless power and stability with difficult speaker loads.

hard to say depending on sound levels, room size and subwoofer output. Personally i never run anywhere near the limits of my system.


Any suggested venues other than Audiogon and eBay? Thanks.

http://www.audiophileliquidator.net/...sort=2a&page=2

peter

AR[/quote]

My electronics will not change for quite awhile. I just recently upgraded my amp (Parasound 5250) and I have no plans to change my processor anytime soon (Anthem AVM20; does not offer any room correction processing). When it comes time to upgrade my processor, there should be some great option by then that include room correction software. I was just thinking, is there such thing as a separate component that does room correction only?


I will have to do some extended listening to see what I think and make sure I distinguish between accurate extended highs and exaggerated/inaccurate highs. I think with enough time and listening to a wide variety of material I should be able to do just that.


I'm not as critical about HT as I am about music, so my existing center channel (NHT AudioCenter 2) may do well enough for me. As such I'm not that concerned about chooseing a speaker that has a matching center.


I appreciate the great feedback.

yes, go to:

http://www.audyssey.com/hometheater/soundeq.html

this technology is pretty impressive, developed at USC and headed by Thomlison Holman of THX lucasfilm fame.