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Revel Owners Thread - Page 92

post #2731 of 6805
Quote:
Originally Posted by howaboutthat41 View Post

Tough speakers to assess quickly, and the neutral (house?) sound might come off as austere to some.
This is a good way to put it. I hated the F30s I auditioned in 2000. I actually think the Revel designs after their first iteration (i.e. starting with Performa2, then Concerta, and then Ultima2) have become less "austere", but I am with you...to people who are used to a certain sound or coloration from their current equipment, the Revels can be quite "different" at first. It is after you have listened to them that one begins to realize...you can just keep listening & listening with no fatigue. I have not experienced this with any other speaker line. And I too would call it the "house" sound. What is amazing to me is that Revel's speakers all sound a certain way, and as you go up in the line, you just seem to get more of the same (but at the next level); its kind of like adding a layer of transparency with each jump.

I listened to F208s and F206s yesterday. The F208s were ridiculous (in a good way), and I came away thinking there might be legitimacy to the comments Kevin Voecks made that the F208s beat some other much higher priced speakers in Revel's own double-blind listening tests. When he first made that comment, I thought, "Well, he designed the speaker, what else is he going to say?" But really, I now think its actually possible its true.
post #2732 of 6805
My biggest disappointment regarding the new Performa line is they use the exact, unchanged metal dome tweeter that they have been using for quite some time now. Unless I am mistaken.....

I LOVE the sound of the Performa line but I just can't stand the bright and sometimes harsh metal dome tweeter. I wish I could stand it because I love the midrange on.

-Brian
post #2733 of 6805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bghead8che View Post

My biggest disappointment regarding the new Performa line is they use the exact, unchanged metal dome tweeter that they have been using for quite some time now. Unless I am mistaken.....

I LOVE the sound of the Performa line but I just can't stand the bright and sometimes harsh metal dome tweeter. I wish I could stand it because I love the midrange on.

-Brian

If that's true, I think that could be a problem. I preferred the tweeter on my old F12's to the tweeters on my old M22's and F32's. The M22's and F32's had a tendency to sound harsh to me.
post #2734 of 6805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bghead8che View Post

My biggest disappointment regarding the new Performa line is they use the exact, unchanged metal dome tweeter that they have been using for quite some time now. Unless I am mistaken.....

I LOVE the sound of the Performa line but I just can't stand the bright and sometimes harsh metal dome tweeter. I wish I could stand it because I love the midrange on.

-Brian

Bummer. It's too bad that you found the performa3 harsh. Which model did you listen to?

It seems like there are varying opinions depending on the model. The towers have gotten the favorable responses vs the bookshelves.
post #2735 of 6805
I don't think anyone first hand has said the F206 or F208 is harsh, more speculation from what I glean. Lets let those who have heard the new Performa3 give their impressions. Too much Revel bashing on own thread. Granted, honesty is good but from what I know about the Studio2s (awesome) and Kevin says the Performa3s are close, I want to know more about them. Just like when I had Kef XQ40s when Kef released the R series touted to be 80-90% of the Reference Line, I was taken back a bit. But they have been that so I am looking forward to real reviews and listener impressions of the new 3 series.
post #2736 of 6805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post

But the other comments about Revel's quality going "downhill", "cheapened" and somehow the cabinets have less rigidity(?!?)

For the record, I'm definitely in the camp that Revel improves with each new generation. I was just pointing out that there was definitely more than one poster who liked M20s more than M22s.

I'm just speculating here, but I think some of the comments about build quality were because the specs on the M20 & M22 show the M20s weighing significantly more than M22s, but there was also some speculation that was simply a typo and not true.
post #2737 of 6805
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlittlejeans View Post

If that's true, I think that could be a problem. I preferred the tweeter on my old F12's to the tweeters on my old M22's and F32's. The M22's and F32's had a tendency to sound harsh to me.

I think there have been some changes to the tweeter for sure. Just from reading the general information available on Revel's website:

"The F208 and F206 tweeter has been created around a newly-designed motor and dome assembly...The tweeter’s integrated acoustic lens waveguide is based on a breakthrough mathematical approach that accurately matches the tweeter’s dispersion to that of the midrange transducer in the crossover region."

So maybe they are using a similar material, but have changed other aspects of their implementation? The waveguide is definitely at least cosmetically different in the F208/F206 versus the F52/F32, explaining how it impacts the sound is way beyond me smile.gif
post #2738 of 6805
Can we have a show of hands as to who all bought or ordered the Performa3 F206/F208 speakers and what your impressions are of this updated line?

I want to see if it's similar to my impressions as I have auditioned the F206 and F208 along w/ the Ultima Studio for comparison sake.

I don't care about the M105/M106 bookshelves. If I get em down the line which I probably never will, they would be for surround duty.
post #2739 of 6805
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrand1 View Post

I think there have been some changes to the tweeter for sure. Just from reading the general information available on Revel's website:

"The F208 and F206 tweeter has been created around a newly-designed motor and dome assembly...The tweeter’s integrated acoustic lens waveguide is based on a breakthrough mathematical approach that accurately matches the tweeter’s dispersion to that of the midrange transducer in the crossover region."

So maybe they are using a similar material, but have changed other aspects of their implementation? The waveguide is definitely at least cosmetically different in the F208/F206 versus the F52/F32, explaining how it impacts the sound is way beyond me smile.gif
Yes, of course it's a different tweeter. To your point, it maybe the same material, but it's a different (or at minimum, tweaked) design. There's seems to be a lot of people in this thread who have looked at pictures and specs...but have no clue what they are talking about, and actually haven't heard them.
post #2740 of 6805
Quote:
Originally Posted by lsdec View Post

Can we have a show of hands as to who all bought or ordered the Performa3 F206/F208 speakers and what your impressions are of this updated line?.
wink.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by lsdec View Post

I want to see if it's similar to my impressions as I have auditioned the F206 and F208 along w/ the Ultima Studio for comparison sake.
Revel sucks, don't you know that? smile.gif Why feed the trolls. You heard em side by side, so did Dsonic...and we know whats really going on here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lsdec View Post

I don't care about the M105/M106 bookshelves. If I get em down the line which I probably never will, they would be for surround duty.
Look at you being all uppity. You arrogant Revel owner you. cool.giftongue.gif
post #2741 of 6805
^this kid doesn't give up
post #2742 of 6805
I will say that even though i did not like the imaging of the bookshelf models or the highs, i do believe that they beat the mids of the speakers that i did like in my price range. The mids on the performa3's were organic with just the right amount of body. Not to much and not to light. Unfortunately they had no depth to them. If the towers imaged differently and the tweeter was more energetic when needed then i would praise them in the highest regards.
Maybe the ultima series accomplishes that. I will have to listen to both.
The speakers that i did like were almost to clean and because of this i felt like they weren't exactly organic.
Wonder if a tube amp would fix that.
post #2743 of 6805
Quote:
Originally Posted by bthrb4u View Post

^this kid doesn't give up
Nah, just having some fun, cause god know some of you are taking this way too seriously. tongue.gif
Edited by Esox50 - 1/14/13 at 7:12pm
post #2744 of 6805
Quote:
Originally Posted by bthrb4u View Post

^this kid doesn't give up
Look who's talking tongue.gif

No Electra Glide I get your post.
You schooled me well.
Edited by Milt99 - 1/14/13 at 7:36pm
post #2745 of 6805
Look here's the drill.
Silk tweeters sound, wormy.
Soft dome tweeters sound, soft.
Metal dome tweeters sound, harsh.
Diamond dome tweeters sound, really f"ing expensive. Kind of champagney.
Ribbon tweeters sound, umm, ribbony.
Ceramic tweeters sound, pottery.
You really can tell the sound of a driver by the materai it is made from, as long as you know the material it is made from.

What else do you need to know?

IMO, tweeters, in isolation, contribute the least amount to the sound of of speaker, but they cost the most to do right all things considered.
Edited by Milt99 - 1/14/13 at 9:41pm
post #2746 of 6805
To be clear I heard/owned the older Performa line. I have NOT heard the newer line. As I stated, I did find the tweeter to be harsh on the older line. The waveguide and back changes will not, IMO, change the character of the tweeter. I think its an evolution of the tweeter, but definately not a 100% change. I really do hope they sound less bright/harsh because they are great speakers.

I'm a big fan. I just have some reservations about the tweeter.

-Brian
post #2747 of 6805
Honestly, if there was one thing I could fault about the original Salons, it was the tweeters(front and rear firing if I remember).
Very sensitive to the source gear and the music input.
I believe they had a tweeter dial though to boost or attenuate.
So far, I've had no issues with the Studio2s, just hooked up my Oppo-105, pre-amp and did a rough postioning of the speakers.
It's scary how with a good recording, speakers can do a disappearing act.
I haven't experimented with the dials on the back yet.

Listening to Relaxin' With The Mile Davis Quintet SACD.
The muted trumpet is a real tweeter test.
The sax and percussion\cymbals are very nice.

Bghead8che,
I would be very surprised and indeed others have stated that the new Performas have a different tweeter which would most likely be an incremental change and not a 100% change whatever that is.
AFAIK, waveguides are designed to help with off-axis dispersion. I wouldn't think they would change the inherent sound if you're sitting dead center.
post #2748 of 6805
I think it's safe to say we can let go any notions that the tweeter on the Performa3 is harsh. Especially if you haven't had the chance to audition them yet.

And what constitutes a 'new' tweeter, it really doesn't matter. It sounds extremely good. I'm not sure if it exceeds the AMAZING Kef's but it's still good nontheless.
post #2749 of 6805
As I stated earlier, I think the material alone doesn't mean anything. I mean, if you read a bit about the design goals, white papers, and thousand of pages of documentation about acoustics/speaker manufacturing etc. You will understand, that if the greatness of a speaker would only rely on the material, and the "few" basic things we "laymans" know about this science at all, everybody could manufacture a great speaker, which we all know is really not the case in this business... wink.gifbiggrin.gif
post #2750 of 6805
I am wondering would a pair of Infinity Beta 30s be alright for surround sound with Revel F12 fronts and Revel.C12 center?

Thanks again
post #2751 of 6805
Quote:
Originally Posted by supermoore1025 View Post

I am wondering would a pair of Infinity Beta 30s be alright for surround sound with Revel F12 fronts and Revel.C12 center?

Thanks again
Mostly depends on two things: If both have the same type of tweeters (Ti, etc) and the XO points are roughly the same for all drivers.

I can match my '70's design L212 to the much newer PT800 as they both have Ti tweeters and the two XO points, LF~mid~HF are very close between the 2 speakers.
post #2752 of 6805
Well folks, it appears like the Performa3 Series is on national backorder until 02/27. First, Revel delayed the actual release of the Performa3 series for nearly one year. Then they start shipping the units on 12/18, and now they are backordered. I was told that it appears like they just produced enough to satisfy the need for dealer demos.
post #2753 of 6805
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

Mostly depends on two things: If both have the same type of tweeters (Ti, etc) and the XO points are roughly the same for all drivers.

I can match my '70's design L212 to the much newer PT800 as they both have Ti tweeters and the two XO points, LF~mid~HF are very close between the 2 speakers.

I have actual heard that the Revel F12 sounds fairly close to the Beta series.
post #2754 of 6805
Quote:
Originally Posted by addictaudio View Post

Well folks, it appears like the Performa3 Series is on national backorder until 02/27. First, Revel delayed the actual release of the Performa3 series for nearly one year. Then they start shipping the units on 12/18, and now they are backordered. I was told that it appears like they just produced enough to satisfy the need for dealer demos.

Revel has halted sales of the Performa3. They are being recalled to correct the harsh tweeter. The replacement tweeters are from Bose premium line. smile.gifsmile.gif
post #2755 of 6805
Quote:
Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post

Revel has halted sales of the Performa3. They are being recalled to correct the harsh tweeter. The replacement tweeters are from Bose premium line. smile.gifsmile.gif

Surely, the "waveguide" technology will do wonders....LOL:D:p
post #2756 of 6805
I just got back from listening and comparing F208 to Ultima Salon2 for about an hour. My two CDs that I brought and played are Lynyrd Skynyrd Southern Surroundings: The Ultimate Skynyrd Collection and Stan Getz and Oscar Peterson Trio-Silver Collection.

The source was an Oppo SE universal player(not sure which one) connected via the stereo analog outputs to a Classe pre-amp of some sort, which connected to a huge set of Mark Levinson mono amps that looked like a pair of monoliths. The speaker cables were the big Nordost ones that are about two inches wide. Sorry I don't know all the exact specs on all this equipment. Since the cables had banana terminals on them, it was relatively easy to switch out. The room was a treated home theater setup, although they only had the 2 channel audio running. Unfortunately, they just had the speakers sitting directly on padded carpet, but it was the same for both.

I can confidently say that there is indeed quite a divergence in the overall sound between the two models:

First, the F208 are about 2 to 3dB more sensitive, as the volume had to be turned up after switching to the Salon 2s. Aside from that, the F208 definitely had more pronounced and punchier mid-bass than the Salon. It would be easy to get the first impression that the F208 has more bass than the Salon2, but we did not really play anything with true deep bass. The F208 sounded very good to me, with good sound stage and localization of instruments. The highs were OK, but contrary to what some have noted, seemed to be a bit laid back, compared to the Salon 2. I guess I would characterize the overall sound as what some have termed "tilted down". I think a lot of folks who listen to movies and rock and roll music might enjoy the F208s.

As to the Salon 2s, they clearly had more intricately detailed highs, so much so that you could hear even slight extraneous sounds in the recording. I would say the layout of instruments was more clearly defined, and I also noticed that piano and guitar seemed to have more dynamic nuance to them. As to bass, the Salons just didn't seem to have much, which is consistent with the last time I heard them as well. However, that may only mean that they are more accurate to the recording than the F208s, which I believe is the case. IMO, the Salon 2 would be great for people who listen to classical and jazz music.

I think the Revel sales pitch is going to be how much they have narrowed the gap between the new Perfomas and the Ultima 2. I am not sure that is going to work because, to me, they sound fairly different. As I told the salesman, the big question now is how the Performa 3 models compare to competition in their price range. Unfortunately, they no longer had the Focal W series on hand to be able to compare with.
post #2757 of 6805
Mudcat,

They have not stpped sales. They are just shipping them without tweeters.

Dennis
post #2758 of 6805
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtrot View Post

As to the Salon 2s, they clearly had more intricately detailed highs, so much so that you could hear even slight extraneous sounds in the recording. I would say the layout of instruments was more clearly defined, and I also noticed that piano and guitar seemed to have more dynamic nuance to them. As to bass, the Salons just didn't seem to have much, which is consistent with the last time I heard them as well. However, that may only mean that they are more accurate to the recording than the F208s, which I believe is the case. IMO, the Salon 2 would be great for people who listen to classical and jazz music.

The Salon 2 has excellent bass response. If you found it lacking it was either the source material, room placement or amplification (Salons need power).

http://www.stereophile.com/content/revel-ultima-salon2-loudspeaker-measurements
post #2759 of 6805
Since the OP said the source was an Oppo "SE" it very well could be the 83SE which, imo, is a fair bit behind the 95 and 105 and even the 93 and 103.
Anyway, nice write up mtrot. At least the one speaker didn't "turn off" when you moved your head.
You impression of the Salon2 mirrors my experience with the Salon2 & Studio2, uber-detail but still very "musical".

But enough about that. I have a serious question.

Has anyone removed the blasted doors that cover the speaker terminals?
I know I read somewhere about someone removing them but he provided no details about how he did it.
It would be very much appreciated if someone could impart their knowledge about this.
I'm using my brother's Furutech cables which are not very thick and I'm going to likely replace them with some Canare Star Quads which are much thicker and the damn doors just get in the way.
TIA
post #2760 of 6805
Quote:
Originally Posted by ehlarson View Post

The Salon 2 has excellent bass response. If you found it lacking it was either the source material, room placement or amplification (Salons need power).

http://www.stereophile.com/content/revel-ultima-salon2-loudspeaker-measurements

I hardly think the Salon 2s needed more power than two of these puppies! They are rated at 500 watts/channel into 8 ohms, and 1000 watts/channel into 4 ohms. Now, the F208s were positioned to the outside of the Salon 2s, so they were closer to the side walls. Again, I am just saying that I suspect the F208 has a slight mid-bass bump, which did initially give me the subjective impression that they had more bass than the Salon 2. And since I did not play any music with actual deep bass, that could also partially explain the perception.

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