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Revel Owners Thread - Page 93

post #2761 of 4151
Milt,

I removed these doors from my Studio2s. They flex just enough to pull the hinge balls out of their sockets. I did not have to use excessive force.

Dennis
post #2762 of 4151
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtrot View Post

I hardly think the Salon 2s needed more power than two of these puppies! They are rated at 500 watts/channel into 8 ohms, and 1000 watts/channel into 4 ohms. Now, the F208s were positioned to the outside of the Salon 2s, so they were closer to the side walls. Again, I am just saying that I suspect the F208 has a slight mid-bass bump, which did initially give me the subjective impression that they had more bass than the Salon 2. And since I did not play any music with actual deep bass, that could also partially explain the perception.

[

I agree. I don't think the electronics was the problem. I suspect room placement may have been sub-optimal, as you describe.
post #2763 of 4151
Mtrot,

Does the studio2 have more bass than the salon2?
post #2764 of 4151
Quote:
Originally Posted by lsdec View Post

Mtrot,

Does the studio2 have more bass than the salon2?

I have not heard the Studio2. But how would you expect Studio2 to have more bass?
post #2765 of 4151
Quote:
Originally Posted by lsdec View Post

Mtrot,

Does the studio2 have more bass than the salon2?

Of course NOT.

The Salon2 has MORE bass for sure.
post #2766 of 4151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post


Has anyone removed the blasted doors that cover the speaker terminals?

I use 10 gauge Kimber Kable with spades and there is plenty of room for cable on my Salon2. Unless your cable is larger than 1" diameter, there should be room if you use spades, instead of bananas.
post #2767 of 4151
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

I use 10 gauge Kimber Kable with spades and there is plenty of room for cable on my Salon2. Unless your cable is larger than 1" diameter, there should be room if you use spades, instead of bananas.

Andy, you are the king of all ballers bro:)tongue.gif
post #2768 of 4151
Wow. The Salon2 goes lower but for music I am guessing not much difference. I had the Studio2s for home audition and after a few hours break-in I had to reduce the bass boundary adjustment as it got boomy. However, in my 13' W x 16' D x 9' C room the Kef 205/2s had better bass response. I attributed that to the front vs bottom ports. The Studio2s has the better tweeter and I assumed given a bigger room the Studio2s would shine. I have got to hear the Salon2s vs B&W 802/800 vs Kef Blades. I can't imagine a more difficult task smile.gif
Edited by jima4a - 1/16/13 at 7:28pm
post #2769 of 4151
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtrot View Post

I have not heard the Studio2. But how would you expect Studio2 to have more bass?

I heard the F208 next to the Studio2 and the bass response was almost the same.

Since it was said that the F208s have more bass than the Salon2, I just wanted to double check.

smile.gif
post #2770 of 4151
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsonic View Post

Milt,

I removed these doors from my Studio2s. They flex just enough to pull the hinge balls out of their sockets. I did not have to use excessive force.

Dennis

Thanks Dennis. I'll give it a shot.
I'm using Furutech ohno cables(silver sheath) with angled spades and they're probably 3/8 or so thick and because I'm using the upper terminals as per the manual, the fit is a little tight in my application.

I don't know why I'm responding to the "more bass" question whatever that means, but I would think that the 3 woofers in the Salon2s combined with the bigger cabinet would fill a bigger room than the Studio2s.
The specs say that the Salon2s go 2hz deeper, 29 vs 31hz within the spec.
I've played some music that has some pretty pronounced bass and the Studio2s did fine.
I would think that the mid-woof and mid-range drivers in the Salon2s would make more of a difference for most music at sane levels.

My room is 20 x 19 and the Studio2s have no problem filling that space plus the adjacent dining room and kitchen.
Edited by Milt99 - 1/16/13 at 6:04pm
post #2771 of 4151
Quote:
Originally Posted by lsdec View Post

I heard the F208 next to the Studio2 and the bass response was almost the same.

Since it was said that the F208s have more bass than the Salon2, I just wanted to double check.

smile.gif

Hold on there. I said I felt like the F208s may have had a bit of a mid-bass bump in that room. I am not saying they have more deep bass capability than the Salon2.
post #2772 of 4151
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtrot View Post

Hold on there. I said I felt like the F208s may have had a bit of a mid-bass bump in that room. I am not saying they have more deep bass capability than the Salon2.

Thanks for the clarification. Its all good. I'll still most likely get the F208.
post #2773 of 4151
Quote:
Originally Posted by jima4a View Post

The Salon2 goes lower but for music I am guessing not much difference.

I agree. Salon2 has more bass, but for most music, I think people won't notice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by addictaudio View Post

Andy, you are the king of all ballers bro:)tongue.gif

Nope. Always bigger fish in the sea. The kings are the guys with Salon2 x 7 or 800D2 x 7 plus 4 giant subs & Krell or Mark Levinson monoblocks in a giant house. biggrin.gif
post #2774 of 4151
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

I agree. Salon2 has more bass, but for most music, I think people won't notice.
Nope. Always bigger fish in the sea. The kings are the guys with Salon2 x 7 or 800D2 x 7 plus 4 giant subs & Krell or Mark Levinson monoblocks in a giant house. biggrin.gif

The deeper bass is not always an advantage because it complicates room placement. The extra mid driver though - that is where the Salon's real advantage is.

If it weren't for that I'd always prefer the Studio 2 + subs.
post #2775 of 4151
Quote:
Originally Posted by ehlarson View Post

The deeper bass is not always an advantage because it complicates room placement. The extra mid driver though - that is where the Salon's real advantage is.

If it weren't for that I'd always prefer the Studio 2 + subs.

I agree 100%. I always prefer the bass from a dedicated sub.
post #2776 of 4151
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlittlejeans View Post

If that's true, I think that could be a problem. I preferred the tweeter on my old F12's to the tweeters on my old M22's and F32's. The M22's and F32's had a tendency to sound harsh to me.

I couldn't agree more. I recently got to borrow a pair of M22s for about a month or so, and I felt it's tweeter was definitely 'hotter' than the F12's/M12's. Some may like 'brighter' better, some may not.
post #2777 of 4151
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

I agree 100%. I always prefer the bass from a dedicated sub.

Ditto.
post #2778 of 4151
Quote:
Originally Posted by 65 Electra Glide View Post

I couldn't agree more. I recently got to borrow a pair of M22s for about a month or so, and I felt it's tweeter was definitely 'hotter' than the F12's/M12's. Some may like 'brighter' better, some may not.

were you running the m22s with a subwoofer? Just wondering if a lack of bass punch brought more attention to the treble range.

Should be the same tweeter, maybe it's crossed differently?
post #2779 of 4151
Quote:
Originally Posted by HaroldKumar View Post

were you running the m22s with a subwoofer? Just wondering if a lack of bass punch brought more attention to the treble range.

Should be the same tweeter, maybe it's crossed differently?


Not the same tweeter, but the M22 measures extremely flat (and has a tweeter control on the back, as well). Had never heard it described as "hot" or the like until very recently, so a bit of a head scratcher. Perhaps the M12 and F12 have more of an engineered roll-off at the top end?wink.gif
post #2780 of 4151
Quote:
Originally Posted by howaboutthat41 View Post

Not the same tweeter, but the M22 measures extremely flat (and has a tweeter control on the back, as well). Had never heard it described as "hot" or the like until very recently, so a bit of a head scratcher. Perhaps the M12 and F12 have more of an engineered roll-off at the top end?wink.gif

Roll-off for the Concerta F12 seems evident: http://www.hometheater.com/images/archivesart/1205revel.8.jpg
post #2781 of 4151
Quote:
Originally Posted by howaboutthat41 View Post

Roll-off for the Concerta F12 seems evident: http://www.hometheater.com/images/archivesart/1205revel.8.jpg

That particular set of measurements was actually originally from Ultimate AV, at the time a sister publication of Stereophile that leaned more toward surround sound instead of 2 channel.

Not apples to apples with the set you posted, but FWIW here is HTM's own measurements of the M22 (red trace), and you can clearly see a fairly steep spike at about 15 khz.. Not sure if this was measured with the tweeter level control jacked up as high as possible or what, but when I listened to them, I had it turned down as low as it would go, and still thought they were noticably 'hotter' up top than the F12s/M12s. YMMV
Edited by 65 Electra Glide - 1/18/13 at 12:30pm
post #2782 of 4151
Quote:
Originally Posted by 65 Electra Glide View Post

That particular set of measurements was actually originally from Ultimate AV, at the time a sister publication of Stereophile that leaned more toward surround sound instead of 2 channel.

Not apples to apples with the set you posted, but FWIW here is HTM's own measurements of the M22 (red trace), and you can clearly see a fairly steep spike at about 15 khz.. Not sure if this was measured with the tweeter level control jacked up as high as possible or what, but when I listened to them, I had it turned down as low as it would go, and still thought they were noticably 'hotter' up top than the F12s/M12s. YMMV

Touche, but we do not hear much up above 15 khz (and even less music hits anywhere near there, let alone with any appreciable volume). The Studio2 has roughly the same curve as the M22 in that range -- and is rarely described as "hot." That said, compared to the F52 and F12 (and presumably M12), both the M22 and Studio2 (Salon 2, I assume, as well) must seem a bit warm in the extremes. cool.gif
post #2783 of 4151
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by howaboutthat41 View Post

Touche, but we do not hear much up above 15 khz (and even less music hits anywhere near there, let alone with any appreciable volume). The Studio2 has roughly the same curve as the M22 in that range -- and is rarely described as "hot." That said, compared to the F52 and F12 (and presumably M12), both the M22 and Studio2 (Salon 2, I assume, as well) must seem a bit warm in the extremes. cool.gif

It's my opinion that the Studio 2 doesn't have a response curve anything like that. From personal experience; I've measured mine. In addition the Studio 2 comes with an individual response measurement from Harman that looks nothing like what Stereophile showed in these plots.

The Studio is specified to be +0 -3 db out to 45KHz.

Soundstage commissioned a measurement of the Salon 2 (same tweeter as the Studio 2) at the NRC and didn't find anything like this. I think I'll believe the NRC before almost anyone else.

http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/speakers/revel_ultima_salon2/

I would take these +15KHz measurements by Stereophile with a very large grain of salt.
post #2784 of 4151
Quote:
Originally Posted by ehlarson View Post

It's my opinion that the Studio 2 doesn't have a response curve anything like that. From personal experience; I've measured mine. In addition the Studio 2 comes with an individual response measurement from Harman that looks nothing like what Stereophile showed in these plots.

The Studio is specified to be +0 -3 db out to 45KHz.

Soundstage commissioned a measurement of the Salon 2 (same tweeter as the Studio 2) at the NRC and didn't find anything like this. I think I'll believe the NRC before almost anyone else.

http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/speakers/revel_ultima_salon2/

I would take these +15KHz measurements by Stereophile with a very large grain of salt.


Could be. This is the plot collected on a thread that also depicted the M22 plot: http://www.stereophile.com/images/archivesart/308Revfig5.jpg I am also sure that the M22 hardly goes ballistic at 16 kHz.
post #2785 of 4151
Quote:
Originally Posted by howaboutthat41 View Post

Touche, but we do not hear much up above 15 khz (and even less music hits anywhere near there, let alone with any appreciable volume). The Studio2 has roughly the same curve as the M22 in that range -- and is rarely described as "hot." That said, compared to the F52 and F12 (and presumably M12), both the M22 and Studio2 (Salon 2, I assume, as well) must seem a bit warm in the extremes. cool.gif
Please post a frequency response curve for the Studio2 or Salon2 to back up your post.
John Atkinson has thoroughly measured both of these speakers and they look nothing like the M-22 HTF measurements and neither do the F-52s from that article.
In fact both the Salon and Studios measure remarkably flat over the frequency range and while this one measurement doesn't tell the whole story, it doesn't lie either.

I have been as critical of certain aspects of Stereophile as anyone but the fact is I read the articles and I know who I trust from that publication and others.
Everyone can take these ratings with whatever grain of salt they want:
The Revel Studio2 is the least expensive speaker to consistently make Stereophile's A list.
the next speaker up in price is the KEF Reference\207 @ 4k more.
The Revel Salon2s have been garnered more praise and even at 22K are far cheaper than the lionshare of speakers in that stratosphere.
Whether you believe Stereophile or not, anyone considering spending this kind of coin would be a fool not to consider\compare\audition these speakers.
Edited by Milt99 - 1/18/13 at 7:16pm
post #2786 of 4151
Hey guys, my apologies if this has already been covered, but this is a fairly long thread to search through.

Are there any Canadian revel owners here?

I live in southern Ontario and am in the market for a pair of studio 2's (preferably used). The revel site only lists one distributor in Canada but they are in a different province. Was hoping some Canadian owners might be able to chime in on other possible dealers within Canada. I'd like to contact them and see if they possibly have any demos and or trade ins. It's a bit of a shot in the dark but figured it was at least worth the inquiry. I'm not against buying new either if the price is right.

Thanks
post #2787 of 4151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post

Please post a frequency response curve for the Studio2 or Salon2 to back up your post.
John Atkinson has thoroughly measured both of these speakers and they look nothing like the M-22 HTF measurements and neither do the F-52s from that article.
In fact both the Salon and Studios measure remarkably flat over the frequency range and while this one measurement doesn't tell the whole story, it doesn't lie either.

I have been as critical of certain aspects of Stereophile as anyone but the fact is I read the articles and I know who I trust from that publication and others.
Everyone can take these ratings with whatever grain of salt they want:
The Revel Studio2 is the least expensive speaker to consistently make Stereophile's A list.
the next speaker up in price is the KEF Reference\207 @ 4k more.
The Revel Salon2s have been garnered more praise and even at 22K are far cheaper than the lionshare of speakers in that stratosphere.
Whether you believe Stereophile or not, anyone considering spending this kind of coin would be a fool not to consider\compare\audition these speakers.

Graph came from here (post #20, illustrating favored speakers as opposed to poor measuring speakers that fueled the creation of the thread):

http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?229108-The-Worst-Speakers-Ever!-Shiny-Finishes-Good-Marketing-Terrible-Sound.

It's actually a great plot, just shows some lift at the essentially irrelevant upper reaches, like the M22. Plot was from the John Atkinson measurements in Stereophile, March 2008.
Edited by howaboutthat41 - 1/18/13 at 7:39pm
post #2788 of 4151
Robby,

Contact me at d_sonic1@yahoo.com

Dennis
post #2789 of 4151
Ok. You win.
Revels are big shiny speakers that suck.
post #2790 of 4151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post

Ok. You win.
Revels are big shiny speakers that suck.

Huh -- read much? I noted that the Revels were set out as exceptions to the poor performing speakers that prompted the thread. I also own some.
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