Revel Owners Thread - Page 95

When did you order? Last I heard from my dealer, it was a general "end of February" shipment from Revel which meant my dealer would get them first week of March. This was on 1/14/13, first thing in the morning when he put my and my friend's order in together. Earlier the week before, there was no wait, and then by 1/11/13 Walnut was up to a 1 week wait. So there seems to have been a spike in demand over the course of the week of 1/7. Revel didn't have enough product in the pipeline to keep up with initial orders.

Thanks Dennis. I was told that this 02/27 is the date that the warehouse is getting them in. I was told that they only have the black C208 in stock in the warehouse, and that all others are due on 02/27. I was told about two weeks ago though, and this was confirmed by one dealer and also by a distributor for Revel. Since there are made in Indonesia, I am sure that they come via port in a container by ship, and then is transported to the Revel warehouse, and then shipped out to dealers. What did you hear about the S206?

What are ones thoughts on break-in with Revels? I've got my M106s running now, I'm not feeling the love yet, but they are getting better. For example the initial sibilance is fading off. I can't crank them up yet and I still have to experiment with locations. How much run-in do you guys think you need on them?

Crank up AC\DC's Back in Black.
Those baby's will be broke in before Hells Bells is over, about 5 minutes

Looking forward to your impressions! Specially on how they image and if you also experience what bthrb4u mentioned that if you move your head 6 inches to the side you would loose a whole channel. I still think that one of the speakers where out of phase in that demo but no one had commented on the bookshelves since he tried them to confirm to the contrary

I happily owned a pair of Performa M22s for years and upgraded last year to the Ultima line. I found the M22s to be fantastic out of the box (I purchased them new). I spent a lot of time on my placement and location. Imaging was spot on and everything about the Performas sounded just right. I never experienced an "aha" moment with break-in. Others might be more sensitive to those nuances or it could be that over time you habituate to the new sound; regardless, if you're not feeling the love yet, poke around with placement more. One thing I had to do with speaker placement is have a fellow-audiophile come over and then tweak the placement of the speakers. Intuitively with the M22s, given seating, distance, etc one would think they would have needed to be in X location. However, after spending an hour tweaking placement, the optimal location ended up being a foot closer for the L and R speaker to be together. Once that happened, the bass and warmth kicked in and it was wonderful. So, I think some placement tweaking may give you results in spades. When you lock in a pair of Revels, the results are truly magical.

I'm having some wonderful moments with them now, cranking them up has gotten things moving

I will have more to say in a few days....

Please post some pictures!

See?

Do you have a very "live" room?

I would say my room is a little less lively than normal, I have treatments on sidewalls and bass traps on corners. The room is sort of in flux right now, I have a new diffuser panel that I will be playing with and I'm re-organizing and painting it this weekend. So it's going to take a while to evaluate the M106s. I'll do the re-organizing, listen to the Revels for a couple weeks, then put the Focals back in, and evaluate from there.

The reduction in pricing on the Performa3 line (relative to the Performa 2 lineup), the already criticized MTM orientation on one of the center channel speakers (see post # 2818, above), and some of the observations about the new monitors have me scratching my head a bit.
Edited by howaboutthat41 - 1/25/13 at 10:32am

Did Revel reduce the retail pricing for the Performa3 line? If so, what is the new retail list?

Apologies -- reduced (or set lower ) relative to the Performa2 line, which was unveiled a good many years ago. So clarified in my post above.

I see, that is true. There are certain areas that are noticeable where the costs were cut down.

PS: I was under the impression that they reduced the retail pricing of the newly released Perform3's

Such as?

MTM center would be a good start.

For one, I personally feel that the plastic bezel/waveguide that the speakers are mounted to look and feel quite cheap, and so do the screws/bolts that hold the speakers down to it. Furthermore, the tweeter as well could be more detailed/clearer and image better (more three dimensional). I am not sure if they could have adopted th tweeter technology from the Ultima series and keep the price at the same level or similar. The F206 is a great value at a retail of 3.5K, but with the F208 price range at 5K retail, there is a lot of strong competition at that price point.

I am no metallurgist, but the fact that the cones are all relatively simple aluminum (albeit "ribbed") struck me as somewhat odd, given that the organic ceramic composite construction (aluminum basis notwithstanding) of the Performa2 (non-tweeter) cones was both well received and celebrated, and presumably a more esoteric and costly material or process (same with Performa 1's magnesium alloy). Ultima2 is not aluminum, either, as I recall. Not conclusive of anything, just had me wonder in light of the pricing issue. Whither the Concerta line?

For starters, the Ultima2 series uses Be tweeters, top end all the way. Al can be good, but Ti is better and Be is better yet.
I would rather have Ti tweeters, having used both Al and Ti over the years. But each series and what materials are used is all about the intended price point.
If the Performa3 seems something less than the Performa2 its kinda like JBL's line. in the last 6.5 years I would say only one or two series, at the most, are better than the '06 Studio L series. The others that have come out during that time are all something less.
And Infinity has had nothing as good as the Prelude MTS in more than a decade.

The Focals I have now have a Beryllium tweeter. It will be interesting to see how the M106 compares, it will take me a while to get a good assessment. When I decided to try Revel I was initially looking at the Gem2 but those are too pricey for me now.

According to Greg Timbers, the JBL PT800 is a much better value than the Gem2. They are basically the same speaker, with the Gem2 being the upgrade, as opposed to the PT800 being the trickle down. The JBL was designed first.
I've had the PT800 for over 6 years and I've auditioned the Gem2...I would not pay the difference in price!

Driver cone material is immaterial, imo.
There are as many different cone materials as there are manufacturers.

The Ultimas had an aluminum tweeter, a soft dome tweeter and aluminum mid-woofer and woofers.
I don't recall anyone calling them "cheap".

When the Ultima2 line was introduced I remember some lamenting why the massive side slabs were gone and that the Ultimas2 were only offered in 2 finish options.
But after actually listening to the new speakers they are obviously superior to their predecessors.
IMO, the front baffles are works of art and perform a critical function.
But hey, if the previous line is made of more costly material you prefer there a lots of used Ultimas and Performas to buy as cheaply or cheaper than the Performa3s

I had some Dali speakers that had pulp mid-range and woofers, soft dome tweeter and an aluminum ribbon.
I have some Harbeth speakers with "plastic" cones and soft dome tweeters, some Salk speakers with magnesium mid-woofs and aluminum ribbons.
Quite frankly I don't GAF what the cone material is as long as it sounds good to me and all of these speakers sound very good indeed.

As far as the "plastic" wave guide.
Exactly what is "plastic" and would a titanium, berylium or perhaps diamond wave guide perform better?

Maybe they should build the cabinets from solid Brazilian rosewood rather than cheap mdf with 16th inch veneer.

The price of a driver is only partly based on the cone material as there are many other components in a driver.

I'm not saying that no one should be critiquing the Performa3 speakers but some of the criticism seems to have no relevance to how the speakers sound.
Maybe Revel did f-up and go cheap, if they did one would think that the end result would be sub-par speakers.

One observation I've made since getting my Studio2s recently.
I've always loved the Fleet Foxes Helplessness Blues cd but the vocals had a grainy quality which was out of context with everything else on the record.
In an almost identical system with the introduction of the Studio2 speakers, the vocal graininess is ... gone.
IMO, these are marvelous speakers that not only reveal the warts in a recording but also bring out the best.
Edited by Milt99 - 1/26/13 at 11:00am

^^^
Well said. The Studio2s are amazing and I am looking forward to Performa3 reviews. I would be surprised if they were a step back, just not likely.

Lots of conjectures about the Revel Performa 3 line. I too prefer an MTM speaker design--based on what I've read. However, at the same time, speakers are not just individual components. They are the sum of all their parts put together. While I haven't heard the Performa 3s, I joyously lived with the Performa2 line for almost 6 years. I want to keep an open mind that the folks at Revel have indeed taken things up a notch with the Performa 3. And with what I've read and seen in interviews, I believe it.

I'm very curious to see what, if anything, happens to the Concerta line. It seems to me that Revel is taking advantage of lower costs of manufacturing outside the USA and is passing that on. Who knows. While there are still people who love this hobby and have saved diligently, have disposable income, or making good salaries so that it doesn't matter, there are also people who love what they hear but just can't afford it. If Revel is indeed able to keep the performance at the level it has while also significantly reducing retail pricing for the end user, then that's a win-win.

I had a telling experience once with B&W 805s diamonds. I heard them in one HiFi Store and the music coming from those speakers was nothing short of amazing. At that same store, I also had the opportunity to sample the difference between Marantz, NAD, and Arcam receivers on a switcher. It was very eye-opening to instantly hear the differences on exactly the same speaker that receivers within a few hundred dollars of each other exhibited!

Then, I listened to those same B&W 805s models at another dealer and I was let down. The magic I had heard in the first store was no where to be heard. In fact, they were even run on arguably better equipment. Did they sound good? Yes. Did they image well? Yes. Was the timbre great? Yes. There was just something intangible missing that I couldn't recapture. I'm not saying that the B&Ws were suddenly terrible speakers--far from it. I learned that experience that you need to study and listen and wrestle with your setup and system.

And, from that experience forward, I've been very much aware that an audio system is the sum of its parts--just like speakers. The room, electronics, speakers, source, and yes your mood and demeanor--all play a role.

So, after a really long-winded post, I'm very much excited to see the Performa 3 series. There's some new technology, curves, designs, and options that, at least on paper, look like nice upgrades. I've long been a Revel fan and love the science and philosophy behind the designs and what they ultimately yield and hope that the new Performa series knocks it out of the park. The M22s did that for me and I've forever been thankful for that.

I listened to speakers with Al tweeters for 25 years ( they were the most expensive tweeter JBL ever made). But when I replaced them with Ti tweeters it was an improvement.

I never heard the original Salon, but I do like the looks of the Salon2 better, and I really love their sound. But that sound is not just b/c of the Ti mid, MB, bass drivers. Its also the inverted dome shape of those drivers. They project the sound differently from regular dome drivers.

Then you would end up with a lessor cabinet. MDF and HDF are superior to solid wood, as MDF is more inert than wood. Its more compact, denser. And adding veneer to the MDF/HDF board does not improve the sound, only the looks. Which is also important.

Conjecture, or stupidity?

Seems like lots of people who have yet to actually hear the speakers commenting on how they think it will sound.

Now, if people want to say they haven't heard them because they are not yet widely available...that's a whole other matter.

Nobody is going to dispute a MTM center is a compromise...any horizontal center is a compromise as well. You did see that Revel said they had no choice due to REAL WORLD demand to create a smaller center (AKA the C205) that fits in cabinets and to give people the option where a smaller center was needed? And you did see that to minimize the impact of such a compromise, they have it crossed over as low as possible, right? You actually went and heard a C205, right? So you could give us your expert opinion?

If you actually talked to Revel as I did, they would freely tell you all of this and advise you in their opinion to go with the C208 over the C205 if you could. They would however, not ridicule or judge you if you had to go with the smaller center as they understand some people will have no choice (due to wife, furniture, room size, etc)...and that's why the C205 is there. You see, Revel is releasing an entire line of speakers which they hope will fit as many situations and lifestyles as possible.

It's quite ludicrous to point to a MTM center channel as evidence that Revel has some how sold out or "cheaped out" on an entire line of speakers. It's also quite ludicrous to judge an entire line of speakers due to an aluminum tweeter, a line that I'm guessing you have not heard.

My friend had the opportunity to listen to the F208 next to the Studio2. He said, and I quote, "I felt like the F208 was Studio2 less maybe 10%, head to head performance." And just like you, my buddy has been listening to speakers for over 20years, many different designs. Cloth dome, metal dome of various materials, horn, etc. I'm not going to judge people who have Studio2 cause that's a personal decision. Some people may feel it's worth a 3x multiple in cost for 10% more performance vs. the F208. I think someday if I hit the Lottery...maybe I will get the Ultimas.

Lets look at two other centers, neither of which is a true (as in straight line) MTM the JBL LC1, LC2.
The LC2 is 12.5" tall having a midrange and two tweeters above.
The LC1 was developed for the same reasons you state the C205 was.
The need for fitting into small cabinets. The LC1 is only 7.5" tall, a full 5" shorter than the LC2.

But the difference between the LC1 and the C205 is the main tweeter of the LC1 is below the centerline of the mid-bass drivers. So I see no reason the C205's tweeter needs to be inline with the mid-bass drivers.

One thing I have already mentioned about the C205 is the WG being rotated 90* from the normal orientation.
As I have never auditioned speakers with the WG rotated I have no way of knowing the resulting sound. Maybe it some how changes the straight MTM typical off axis sound.

Hey guys, is it common to buy a pair of speakers, speaking of revel in particular I guess, and get 2 speakers that span a huge gap between serial numbers?