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post #2941 of 6792
Quote:
Originally Posted by duc135 View Post

Is you question about lack of customer support based on your quote or that you can't reach any dealers by phone? The lack of customer support you are getting is solely on the dealers. It has nothing to do with nor is it indicative of Harman Industries' practices. Just like you can't go to the grocery store, buy some Kellog's cereal then blame Kellog if the checkout clerk was rude to you. If you are referring to their response you quoted, I don't know the answer since you didn't tell us what your question to them was. I don't see anything wrong with their response if you were asking them what the prices of their speakers are. Since they don't sell direct, they are referring you to one of their dealers.

I have dealt with their CS to replace a broken driver (I physically damaged the cone) and the person on the phone was VERY professional and accommodating.


There is one guy there who is terrific -- hope he is still around. Much help with Revel, Lexicon, and JBL's premiere lines (Performance Series and Synthesis).
post #2942 of 6792
Quote:
Originally Posted by duc135 View Post

Is you question about lack of customer support based on your quote or that you can't reach any dealers by phone? The lack of customer support you are getting is solely on the dealers. It has nothing to do with nor is it indicative of Harman Industries' practices. Just like you can't go to the grocery store, buy some Kellog's cereal then blame Kellog if the checkout clerk was rude to you. If you are referring to their response you quoted, I don't know the answer since you didn't tell us what your question to them was. I don't see anything wrong with their response if you were asking them what the prices of their speakers are. Since they don't sell direct, they are referring you to one of their dealers.

I have dealt with their CS to replace a broken driver (I physically damaged the cone) and the person on the phone was VERY professional and accommodating.

Wow! Thanks for clarifying that duc135! I was very careful to try not to step on any toes when I wrote this post. Frankly, though I do believe CS could have easily provided an MSRP list.

Thank you howaboutthat41. I may give them a call and see if I can get the right person.Much appreciated.
post #2943 of 6792
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahdlokg View Post

Wow! Thanks for clarifying that duc135! I was very careful to try not to step on any toes when I wrote this post. Frankly, though I do believe CS could have easily provided an MSRP list.

Thank you howaboutthat41. I may give them a call and see if I can get the right person.Much appreciated.

This was more for replacement issues (speaker drivers, speaker base, brochure) than for retail-related information, but who knows. If you send me a PM, I will give you his contact information.
post #2944 of 6792
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahdlokg View Post

Hey Revel owners. I am in the process of upgrading my speakers and Revel is one of the 5 or 6 brands I'm considering. I had what seemed like a strange response from Harmon/Revel the other day. I've e-mailed several companies asking for a current MSRP price list. Most of those have responded pretty quickly and one company called to see what line I was most interested in.

The response I received from Harman/Revel was:
I did that, as well. After calling the first 3 dealers on the list in my area (I live in Houston btw), I got 2 no answers and one disconnected line. I like to take the approach that I've mentioned so I don't get several different dealers thinking they have a hot prospect, and it's much more efficient to have a list to refer to.

My question is this: Is the the type of CS response any of you have experienced? I'm very familiar with Revel and have been impressed whenever I've heard them over the years, so my complaint here is in no way meant to disparege the product. Revel is in the top 3 companies that I am leaning toward. Just curious if this is the CS support I can look forward to? Thanks.

I've only called Revel once and I got great response on the phone.
post #2945 of 6792
I had to deal directly with Revel CS for some first-gen Salon midrange driver replacement issues, and they were very helpful. Even knowing that I wasn't the original purchaser of the speakers, they stood behind their product, so I'm not sure I could have asked more than that. As for the individual dealers - I have no idea. My experiences with HiFi dealers in general has run the entire spectrum over the years, so I suppose that's to be expected (sadly) at this point.
post #2946 of 6792
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahdlokg View Post


My question is this: Is the the type of CS response any of you have experienced?


Remember Revel is part of Harman International. Large companies are a challenge to deal with at times. Find someone you can speak with and share your concern, I found this # (Toll-Free) 1-888-691-4171 on the Revel site. My experince with Harman CS was good. Just stay proactive.
post #2947 of 6792
Interesting re the CS. I agree with those who've posted...what your experiencing is a dealer issue, not Revel. They expect their dealer network to get you into the right product that fits you.

If you are continually unsuccessful with your local dealer(s), there are those around here who can help. All one needs to do is ask, privately.
post #2948 of 6792
Hi guys, add me to the list. I just bought a pair of F50's. I'm just waiting for them to be shipped. They are in great shape and I can't wait to try them out. Why can't I find any recommended power ratings for the Revels anywhere, including their own site?

Thanks,
John.
post #2949 of 6792
Hello fellow Revelers... Long time no post. I hate to distract from the discussion of all the exciting new product on the horizon, but I have a couple of questions I'd like to pose to anyone out there with knowledge about the crossover design of the first-gen Salons. (yeah I know they are all outdated and obsolete, ugly, etc., but I still think they generally sound pretty good) I've recently been able to reposition these beasts away from the walls of my room much more than before (about 5' from back to the wall now, more than that to sides, and about 9' between) so I've been playing around a bit with the crossover options (+,0,- for bass and tweets, rear tweet on/off etc) and I have a couple of questions I'd like to pose... I previously had them all set where I thought they were "supposed" to go, and didn't give it much thought. However after some more extended listening, these adjustments seem to have a pretty marked influence on the overall sound, and not only in the ways that I would have originally expected.

1) Since AFAIK there are no "active" components in there to boost anything once the signal leaves the amp, would it be fair to make the obvious assumption that the "wide-open" or "least altered" settings would be the +1 for the bass and front tweeter, and that the other reduced level settings are somehow attenuated in the crossover with a resistor or some such thing?

2) Does anyone know if activating the rear tweeter has any impact on the front tweeter phase/levels? If I had to guess from listening I'd say it does, but I could be fooling myself too...

3) What is the actual intended purpose of this rear tweeter? I see that several other very reputable manufacturers also use a rearward or upward firing tweeter, but I was always under the impression that it was better to minimize reflected sound. I will say that it has a larger than expected impact on the sound and that the soundstage seems to be larger/deeper with it on for some reason.. I'm not sure if this is entirely due to the rear tweeter though, or if the answer to #2 has anything to do with it.. Turning it on seems to have an impact that's more than the result of the sound that seems to come from it, which actually doesn't seem like that much sound...

Trying to determine the best settings has been a bit of an exercise in frustration as I try to trust my ears, but there are almost too many options for my feeble brain and audio memory, and different/more certainly isn't always better for every recording... I'm hoping that some good information might help my understanding here, so feel free to enlighten me. Sometimes too many options are as bad as not enough! wink.gif

Thanks.
post #2950 of 6792
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Hi guys, add me to the list. I just bought a pair of F50's. I'm just waiting for them to be shipped. They are in great shape and I can't wait to try them out. Why can't I find any recommended power ratings for the Revels anywhere, including their own site?

Thanks,
John.

You'll need a fair amount of power to push the F50s with their sensitivity and Ohms level -- probably a good, high-current,100 watt or 150 watt plus unit at a minimum. A 200 watt (at 8Ohms) unit would seem to be in order. Hard to overpower them at the other extreme.
post #2951 of 6792
Quote:
Originally Posted by howaboutthat41 View Post

You'll need a fair amount of power to push the F50s with their sensitivity and Ohms level -- probably a good, high-current,100 watt or 150 watt plus unit at a minimum. A 200 watt (at 8Ohms) unit would seem to be in order. Hard to overpower them at the other extreme.


Hi, I have a Sunfire 7 channel amp 200 wpc~8 ohms or 400 ~4 ohms. They're a pretty high current amp so I'm hoping for the best. I can't find anywhere online the recommended power for them. But I understand that they take quite a bit of power for them to sound good. Thanks for feedback.
post #2952 of 6792
Anyone else own the F50's and what they use to power them?
post #2953 of 6792
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Hi guys, add me to the list. I just bought a pair of F50's. I'm just waiting for them to be shipped. They are in great shape and I can't wait to try them out. Why can't I find any recommended power ratings for the Revels anywhere, including their own site?

Thanks,
John.

Quote:
Originally Posted by howaboutthat41 View Post

You'll need a fair amount of power to push the F50s with their sensitivity and Ohms level -- probably a good, high-current,100 watt or 150 watt plus unit at a minimum. A 200 watt (at 8Ohms) unit would seem to be in order. Hard to overpower them at the other extreme.

I'm not really sure what the power ratings are either, but I can agree with howaboutthat41 to a certain extent. It all depends how far you are from the speakers and how loud you play them. I have the F52 and can run them off my Denon AVR-4311. I think it does something like 140W/Ch in stereo. I'm ~9.5' from the speakers and can play them comfortably to about 90dBs. Above that the tweeters start to sound a little harsh. When I connected them to my Emotiva XPA-2 with 400W/Ch, the speakers sound the same with the exception of the harshness of the tweeters over 90dBs. I've played them to ~95dBs while connected to the Emotiva for extended periods with no problems. Anything above that and it gets too loud for me for extended listening. My usual listening level is about 85dBs constant.

In other words, YMMV. This is just my anecdotal experience. If you sit closer or don't listen as loud, you won't need as much power. They aren't the easiest speakers to drive, but not all that difficult either. If you already have a receiver, give it a shot. Worst thing that can happen is that you find out you need more power. Best case scenario, the receiver is good enough and you get to enjoy your new (to you) speakers right out of the box without spending additional money.
post #2954 of 6792
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Hi, I have a Sunfire 7 channel amp 200 wpc~8 ohms or 400 ~4 ohms. They're a pretty high current amp so I'm hoping for the best. I can't find anywhere online the recommended power for them. But I understand that they take quite a bit of power for them to sound good. Thanks for feedback.

I didn't find this to be true with my F52s at all. Then again, "quite a bit of power" is all relative. As I had mentioned above, my 140W/Ch receiver is able to power my F52s to the levels I need them to 95% of the time. It's the other 5% that I decided to get the Emotiva XPA-2. Although I must admit, I was able to upgrade to the Emotiva XPR-5 at no additional cost to me so I went for it. Uber overkill, but it was a no brainer. A new XPA-2 or XPR-5 for the same cost - $0. I'm guessing you all would support my decision on overkill in this situation.
post #2955 of 6792
Quote:
Originally Posted by duc135 View Post


I'm not really sure what the power ratings are either, but I can agree with howaboutthat41 to a certain extent. It all depends how far you are from the speakers and how loud you play them. I have the F52 and can run them off my Denon AVR-4311. I think it does something like 140W/Ch in stereo. I'm ~9.5' from the speakers and can play them comfortably to about 90dBs. Above that the tweeters start to sound a little harsh. When I connected them to my Emotiva XPA-2 with 400W/Ch, the speakers sound the same with the exception of the harshness of the tweeters over 90dBs. I've played them to ~95dBs while connected to the Emotiva for extended periods with no problems. Anything above that and it gets too loud for me for extended listening. My usual listening level is about 85dBs constant.

In other words, YMMV. This is just my anecdotal experience. If you sit closer or don't listen as loud, you won't need as much power. They aren't the easiest speakers to drive, but not all that difficult either. If you already have a receiver, give it a shot. Worst thing that can happen is that you find out you need more power. Best case scenario, the receiver is good enough and you get to enjoy your new (to you) speakers right out of the box without spending additional money.


It sounds like I'll have more than enough power then. My room is about 14x28 with lots of furnishings, hallways at either end, so yeah it's kind of an acoustical disaster. I'm hoping Audyssey can help me out with that. I know that your 52's look like the 50's I'll be getting, is that where the similarity stops? I'm assuming you have an updated box, drivers etc.
post #2956 of 6792
Quote:
Originally Posted by duc135 View Post

I didn't find this to be true with my F52s at all. Then again, "quite a bit of power" is all relative. As I had mentioned above, my 140W/Ch receiver is able to power my F52s to the levels I need them to 95% of the time. It's the other 5% that I decided to get the Emotiva XPA-2. Although I must admit, I was able to upgrade to the Emotiva XPR-5 at no additional cost to me so I went for it. Uber overkill, but it was a no brainer. A new XPA-2 or XPR-5 for the same cost - $0. I'm guessing you all would support my decision on overkill in this situation.


Seems everyone is liking their Emotiva products. They look great and their specs are up to par. I'm going to have to set mine up in two channel till I can find a center and surrounds that match up to it. Or scour audiogon for the matching pieces, which don't look cheap. I just purchased the Marantz av8801. Sunfire 200x7 for my amp, def tech supercube 1, PSB original golds for fronts, a JBL studio center (crap) and Pinnacle BD650's for surrounds. I'm just hoping the sub works with the 52's. I doubt the Pinnacles will match up as surrounds.
Edited by comfynumb - 1/30/13 at 6:26pm
post #2957 of 6792
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esox50 View Post

Interesting re the CS. I agree with those who've posted...what your experiencing is a dealer issue, not Revel. They expect their dealer network to get you into the right product that fits you.

If you are continually unsuccessful with your local dealer(s), there are those around here who can help. All one needs to do is ask, privately.
Read reviews is all I can say.
http://www.hometheater.com/content/revel-performa-f50-surround-speaker-system

It's not like having a nominal power rating is some kind of GPS on what amp to get.
How big is your room?
What type of music do you listen to?
How loud do you like to listen?
Not trying to be short but but these are basic questions and finding an amp that suits you and your situation is not a simple this\that\not this\that question.
The fun is getting there!
post #2958 of 6792
Madhlokg,

I am a Revel dealer in the Houston area. Contact me at 800-862-7998 or d_sonic1@yahoo.com. I will send you a complete price list.

Dennis
post #2959 of 6792
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post

Read reviews is all I can say.
http://www.hometheater.com/content/revel-performa-f50-surround-speaker-system

It's not like having a nominal power rating is some kind of GPS on what amp to get.
How big is your room?
What type of music do you listen to?
How loud do you like to listen?
Not trying to be short but but these are basic questions and finding an amp that suits you and your situation is not a simple this\that\not this\that question.
The fun is getting there!


Hi, that's one of the reviews that helped me decide, since I couldn't listen to the 50's. I'm thinking about bi amping them through the spare channels on the Sunfire. I have a fairly large room and I admit I like my music loud on occasions. I mostly listen to rock music ranging from classic, acoustic rock and I'll pop in my favorite DVD audio, the black album when I can turn it up.
post #2960 of 6792
Quote:
Originally Posted by K Shep View Post

Remember Revel is part of Harman International. Large companies are a challenge to deal with at times. Find someone you can speak with and share your concern, I found this # (Toll-Free) 1-888-691-4171 on the Revel site. My experince with Harman CS was good. Just stay proactive.

I've had to deal with both Revel and Lexicon on two unrelated issues spanning perhaps a 5 year lapse between issues. I simply cannot say enough good things about the experience. Customer service for the Revels was spectacular and five stars. With my Lexicon, I had a very odd issue, send audio files to them and it ended up being a very peculiar issue and not an issue with the unit itself. Yet, support stayed with me, helped with the debugging and escalated stuff and got feedback from the engineers.

Simply put, I've owned Anthem gear not only because of the sound but also because their support is top notch. Ditto with Revel and Lexicon and I recently had a good experience with B&W with a pair of B&W headphones where the left ear piece went bad.

These companies pride themselves on their name and their customer service is a good testament to that. It doesn't mean they will get it right 100% of the time, but as you've seen from the comments already, there's a difference.
post #2961 of 6792
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECS01 View Post

Hello fellow Revelers... Long time no post. I hate to distract from the discussion of all the exciting new product on the horizon, but I have a couple of questions I'd like to pose to anyone out there with knowledge about the crossover design of the first-gen Salons. (yeah I know they are all outdated and obsolete, ugly, etc., but I still think they generally sound pretty good) I've recently been able to reposition these beasts away from the walls of my room much more than before (about 5' from back to the wall now, more than that to sides, and about 9' between) so I've been playing around a bit with the crossover options (+,0,- for bass and tweets, rear tweet on/off etc) and I have a couple of questions I'd like to pose... I previously had them all set where I thought they were "supposed" to go, and didn't give it much thought. However after some more extended listening, these adjustments seem to have a pretty marked influence on the overall sound, and not only in the ways that I would have originally expected.

1) Since AFAIK there are no "active" components in there to boost anything once the signal leaves the amp, would it be fair to make the obvious assumption that the "wide-open" or "least altered" settings would be the +1 for the bass and front tweeter, and that the other reduced level settings are somehow attenuated in the crossover with a resistor or some such thing?

2) Does anyone know if activating the rear tweeter has any impact on the front tweeter phase/levels? If I had to guess from listening I'd say it does, but I could be fooling myself too...

3) What is the actual intended purpose of this rear tweeter? I see that several other very reputable manufacturers also use a rearward or upward firing tweeter, but I was always under the impression that it was better to minimize reflected sound. I will say that it has a larger than expected impact on the sound and that the soundstage seems to be larger/deeper with it on for some reason.. I'm not sure if this is entirely due to the rear tweeter though, or if the answer to #2 has anything to do with it.. Turning it on seems to have an impact that's more than the result of the sound that seems to come from it, which actually doesn't seem like that much sound...

Trying to determine the best settings has been a bit of an exercise in frustration as I try to trust my ears, but there are almost too many options for my feeble brain and audio memory, and different/more certainly isn't always better for every recording... I'm hoping that some good information might help my understanding here, so feel free to enlighten me. Sometimes too many options are as bad as not enough! wink.gif

Thanks.

To your point about the rear tweeter, I recall Kevin Voecks addressing it. Here's the article where he talks about it for the Ultima 1 series:
http://www.stereophile.com/interviews/608kev/index.html

Voecks: You recall that the Salon1 required a rear tweeter for it to deliver a uniform power response in the room. We were able to eliminate the rear tweeter in the Salon2 because of the increased power output of the new beryllium front tweeter, coupled with benefits from its new waveguide design and baffle shape, to deliver the same response on axis and 60° off axis. Why is that important? The 60–70° off-axis response constitutes the first reflection from sidewalls, which is demonstrably audible and psychoacoustically important.
post #2962 of 6792
That Stereophile article was the one I had alluded to previously in a post in response to the question about when will an Ultima3 Series be coming out. Kevin gives you some insight in this quote:


Kevin Voecks: In other words, why did it take so long? We didn't bring out a new Salon right away because we didn't have to. We listened to competitors' speakers, and the Salon1 still sounded better in our double-blind listening tests, so we resisted change for the sake of change. Second, it took more than three years of active development by our team to perfect the new beryllium tweeter you see in the Salon2. Third, Stereophile drops a product from "Recommended Components" after three years, even if the product leads the field in sound quality. That got us thinking at Revel about introducing a newer version of the Salon.


http://www.stereophile.com/interviews/608kev/index.html
post #2963 of 6792
And let me pull one other quote (I just had to re-read the article of course!). Kevin makes an interesting observation about the diminishing return of high end speakers and draws a line in the sand at the mid price point (though is that $5,000? $10,000?

Listening tests over the past 10 years have taught us one other thing. Above the midprice range of loudspeakers, there is no correlation between the sound quality and the loudspeaker's price. Although many high-priced loudspeakers do perform adequately in our listening tests, the most expensive speaker in a given double-blind listening test may be the least preferred by our listening panel.
post #2964 of 6792
Any tips on biamping the 50's from a 7 channel Sunfire amp? I don't have any experience with biamping and some of the articles I've read have stated they really come alive when you do. I've seen where you use a splitter coming off the pre/pro, but wouldn't lessen the signal to each channel of the amp and defeat the purpose? Couldn't I just use another channel on my 8801 and set it to multi channel? I want to use the XLR's if possible, I just like the way it sounds even though my amp and preamp sit side by side. Thanks.
post #2965 of 6792
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Any tips on biamping the 50's from a 7 channel Sunfire amp? I don't have any experience with biamping and some of the articles I've read have stated they really come alive when you do. I've seen where you use a splitter coming off the pre/pro, but wouldn't lessen the signal to each channel of the amp and defeat the purpose? Couldn't I just use another channel on my 8801 and set it to multi channel? I want to use the XLR's if possible, I just like the way it sounds even though my amp and preamp sit side by side. Thanks.

Search bi amping. The most knowledgeable claim any SQ improvement is a placebo.
post #2966 of 6792
Quote:
Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post

Search bi amping. The most knowledgeable claim any SQ improvement is a placebo.


Hi, so in your opinion there's little or no benefit? Thanks.
post #2967 of 6792
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Hi, so in your opinion there's little or no benefit? Thanks.

None.
post #2968 of 6792
Quote:
Originally Posted by duc135 View Post

None.


Maybe I should save my time and money. What about bi wiring, any benefits? I'm thinking I just opened up a can of worms lol.
post #2969 of 6792
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Maybe I should save my time and money. What about bi wiring, any benefits? I'm thinking I just opened up a can of worms lol.
Passive bi-amping IS bi-wiring. Running a good quality amp w/enough power is all you really need.
Get an amp like Parasound Halo and never look back.
The only way bi-amp really works is active bi-amp. That means using an external XO and removing the internal XO.
post #2970 of 6792
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Maybe I should save my time and money. What about bi wiring, any benefits? I'm thinking I just opened up a can of worms lol.

I never heard any benefit from biwire or biamp. If you want to hear a difference you likely will (initially).smile.gif

You were asking about Dynaudios. Why do you suppose a high end manufacturer like Dyn doesn't offer dual speaker terminals?
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