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Revel Owners Thread - Page 100

post #2971 of 6806
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Maybe I should save my time and money. What about bi wiring, any benefits? I'm thinking I just opened up a can of worms lol.

Theoretically from an engineering point of view, there is a benefit to both bi-wiring & passive bi-amping.

But in actual real life practice, those theoretical benefits seem totally insignificant for most of us.

You could try and see for yourself, but I bet you won't notice any difference at all with passive bi-amp & bi-wire.
post #2972 of 6806
Quote:
Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post

I never heard any benefit from biwire or biamp. If you want to hear a difference you likely will (initially).smile.gif

You were asking about Dynaudios. Why do you suppose a high end manufacturer like Dyn doesn't offer dual speaker terminals?

Both Dynaudio & Focal do not offer bi-wire & bi-amp because of the increased cost for high quality speaker posts with no added practical benefit. biggrin.gif
post #2973 of 6806
Quote:
Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post

I never heard any benefit from biwire or biamp. If you want to hear a difference you likely will (initially).smile.gif

You were asking about Dynaudios. Why do you suppose a high end manufacturer like Dyn doesn't offer dual speaker terminals?


Yes, I almost bought the Dyn's, but for the same price I think I got the better speaker. That makes sense, that Dyn doesn't include the extra connection on their speakers. I'm running a pretty good quality 10 gage wire to my PSB's now, and I'm sure that is overkill, but I got such a deal on 250' of it 7 years ago that I couldn't pass it up. So I'll just stick to a single wire setup. Thanks for the post.
post #2974 of 6806
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

Both Dynaudio & Focal do not offer bi-wire & bi-amp because of the increased cost for high quality speaker posts with no added practical benefit. biggrin.gif


Hi, I don't have the 50's in my possession yet, but according to Revel's manual they have two set of posts and come with shorting straps and are both bi wire and bi amp ready.
post #2975 of 6806
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

Theoretically from an engineering point of view, there is a benefit to both bi-wiring & passive bi-amping.

But in actual real life practice, those theoretical benefits seem totally insignificant for most of us.

You could try and see for yourself, but I bet you won't notice any difference at all with passive bi-amp & bi-wire.


I did bi wire my PSB's at one time, I actually thought they sounded better with a single wire. But I wanted to know what you guys thought about this with the Revel's. Thanks.
post #2976 of 6806
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

I did bi wire my PSB's at one time, I actually thought they sounded better with a single wire. But I wanted to know what you guys thought about this with the Revel's. Thanks.

Simple is best. Less room for errors. biggrin.gif

My Linkwitz Orion are actually quad-amp, but they only have a single Speakon connection. I kind of wish they had 4 pairs of speaker posts. biggrin.gif
Edited by AcuDefTechGuy - 1/31/13 at 9:31am
post #2977 of 6806
As I've said before, ALL Harman brand speakers with dual set binding posts is nothing more than a marketing gimmick.
Maybe in the case of the Everest II, with the dual 15" drivers, it might be a benefit, but to drive a Salon2 with only 8" drivers, I see no benefit to do so.
post #2978 of 6806
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

Simple is best. Less room for errors. biggrin.gif


Agreed.
post #2979 of 6806
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

As I've said before, ALL Harman brand speakers with dual set binding posts is nothing more than a marketing gimmick.
Maybe in the case of the Everest II, with the dual 15" drivers, it might be a benefit, but to drive a Salon2 with only 8" drivers, I see no benefit to do so.


Good to know, I'll save my money and put it into finding the correct center and surrounds for the 50's. The used ones I've seen are pretty pricey, but I'd like them to match the sycamore color.
post #2980 of 6806
In my oppinion, bi-amping makes sense, if you have a low power amp with 60-90 Watts, and this way you can pump the double of it into the speaker. But in our case, it doesnt make any sense, because if you own a Revel speaker, than you need proper amplification to get the most out of it, and in this case, you shouldn't have something with low power output.

I haven't seen any real pictures from the binding posts, with the XO, and the cableing, if I had I would be able to understand, how it could bring any improvement.

By the way, I wanted to ask, what is the opinion on the original Ultima Studio vs the Performa2 speakers? Are they equal, or better? I never heard any of them, just the F30/F12/Saloon2, so any experience would be helpful.
post #2981 of 6806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gugu_s View Post

In my oppinion, bi-amping makes sense, if you have a low power amp with 60-90 Watts, and this way you can pump the double of it into the speaker. But in our case, it doesnt make any sense, because if you own a Revel speaker, than you need proper amplification to get the most out of it, and in this case, you shouldn't have something with low power output.

I haven't seen any real pictures from the binding posts, with the XO, and the cableing, if I had I would be able to understand, how it could bring any improvement.

By the way, I wanted to ask, what is the opinion on the original Ultima Studio vs the Performa2 speakers? Are they equal, or better? I never heard any of them, just the F30/F12/Saloon2, so any experience would be helpful.


Hi, I should have that covered pretty well, my amp is a 200/wpc~8 ohms, double that at 4~ohms. Sunfire amps are definitely high voltage, I just hope the quality is good enough for the Revel's. It's always sounded great with my PSB's. some of the others on here can probably help with your questions.
post #2982 of 6806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gugu_s View Post

In my oppinion, bi-amping makes sense, if you have a low power amp with 60-90 Watts, and this way you can pump the double of it into the speaker. But in our case, it doesnt make any sense, because if you own a Revel speaker, than you need proper amplification to get the most out of it, and in this case, you shouldn't have something with low power output.

I haven't seen any real pictures from the binding posts, with the XO, and the cableing, if I had I would be able to understand, how it could bring any improvement.

By the way, I wanted to ask, what is the opinion on the original Ultima Studio vs the Performa2 speakers? Are they equal, or better? I never heard any of them, just the F30/F12/Saloon2, so any experience would be helpful.

You are not doubling the wattage if you bi-amp. Unless you use an amp with double the power you are still feeding the same 60-90 watts to the speakers.

The only way that I know to possibly double power is to use bridged amp channels. Most amps are not capable of this.
post #2983 of 6806
The ONLY time i felt i benefited from bi-wiring was because i was using 18g wire and when i doubled up, it was clear that the wire was restraining my speakers from getting proper signal. Isn't there a benefit from bi-amping such as reaching higher levels of volume?
post #2984 of 6806
Thxtheatre - Thanks for the response and the link.. That's about as much useful information as I've seen on the crossover of the Salon 1 (and from a good source!). The question certainly doesn't appear to be a popular topic for discussion here...
post #2985 of 6806
Quote:
Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post

You are not doubling the wattage if you bi-amp. Unless you use an amp with double the power you are still feeding the same 60-90 watts to the speakers.

The only way that I know to possibly double power is to use bridged amp channels. Most amps are not capable of this.

Most certainly true.
Getting a good 250~400 wpc amp is the way to go. I personally like Parasound amps, been using one for over a decade. I also have a '79 vintage HK Citation 19, which is a true doubling amp; 100w > 8Ω, 200w > 4Ω and 400w > 8Ω when bridged. And both run Class A at low output.
post #2986 of 6806
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

Most certainly true.
Getting a good 250~400 wpc amp is the way to go. I personally like Parasound amps, been using one for over a decade. I also have a '79 vintage HK Citation 19, which is a true doubling amp; 100w > 8Ω, 200w > 4Ω and 400w > 8Ω when bridged. And both run Class A at low output.


I have a parasound HCA1500 I haven't used in a few years, I guess I'll be experimenting to see if it sounds as good as the Sunfire. Just no XLR's on the Parasound, which I prefer.
Edited by comfynumb - 1/31/13 at 8:39am
post #2987 of 6806
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

I have a parasound HCA1500 I haven't used in a few years, I guess I'll be experimenting to see if it sounds as good as the Sunfire. Just no XLR's on the Parasound, which I prefer.
My HCA2205A only has RCA connections, sounds very good. Although I would not mind getting a Halo amp to go with my Halo P7 pre.
post #2988 of 6806
Does anyone have any experience with the M20's and would they handle my Sunfire's power? Would they match up to the 50's as surrounds?
post #2989 of 6806
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

As I've said before, ALL Harman brand speakers with dual set binding posts is nothing more than a marketing gimmick.
B&W Diamonds also have dual posts.

And all the KEF Reference speakers have 3 pairs of binding posts for tri-amp. biggrin.gif
post #2990 of 6806
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

B&W Diamonds also have dual posts.

And all the KEF Reference speakers have 3 pairs of binding posts for tri-amp. biggrin.gif

And its still a marketing gimmick, no matter what brand of speaker. I don't know which brand started all that.
post #2991 of 6806
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

B&W Diamonds also have dual posts.

And all the KEF Reference speakers have 3 pairs of binding posts for tri-amp. biggrin.gif


Lol! I also saw some of the Von schweikert's that looked like a router on the back.
post #2992 of 6806
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

My HCA2205A only has RCA connections, sounds very good. Although I would not mind getting a Halo amp to go with my Halo P7 pre.


It is always nice to have the matching set. At the very least I'll have fun trying a different amp with the 50's. if they ever get here, it's going to be nerve racking waiting. What speakers do you have?
post #2993 of 6806
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Does anyone have any experience with the M20's and would they handle my Sunfire's power? Would they match up to the 50's as surrounds?

Yep, the M20's would be the match to the F50's for surrounds...in my opinion, having surrounds in the same "product line" as the fronts is not as critical. I know quite a few people who even use different brands for their surrounds. Even a few people in this thread have matched Performa products with Concerta (I think someone might have had M22s with a C12 center?) with good results.

You have more than enough power for the M20's with either your Sunfire or Parasound amp, especially if you will have a subwoofer in the mix. Surround channels probably won't place as much of a demand on your amp as the fronts will, and if you are crossing over to a subwoofer that makes it even easier on the amp.

An oft-quoted link ( http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html ) can give you an idea of the approximate SPL at a listening position given the speaker sensitivity, amplifier wattage, and distance to listening position. At 87dB sensitive, 100w power, 8 feet to the listening position, you'll easily hit 100+ dB.
post #2994 of 6806
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrand1 View Post

Yep, the M20's would be the match to the F50's for surrounds...in my opinion, having surrounds in the same "product line" as the fronts is not as critical. I know quite a few people who even use different brands for their surrounds. Even a few people in this thread have matched Performa products with Concerta (I think someone might have had M22s with a C12 center?) with good results.

You have more than enough power for the M20's with either your Sunfire or Parasound amp, especially if you will have a subwoofer in the mix. Surround channels probably won't place as much of a demand on your amp as the fronts will, and if you are crossing over to a subwoofer that makes it even easier on the amp.

An oft-quoted link ( http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html ) can give you an idea of the approximate SPL at a listening position given the speaker sensitivity, amplifier wattage, and distance to listening position. At 87dB sensitive, 100w power, 8 feet to the listening position, you'll easily hit 100+ dB.


Hi, sounds like good advice thanks. Since you mentioned other speakers, I'm going to use a deaf tech supercube 1, at least for now. And I've have a great pair of pinnacle BD650's I use for surrounds. Your thoughts on how both of those would match up? The pinnacles are a good bookshelf speaker, 3 way and can take my amp no problem. I'm not as technically advanced as many of you on here, that said I'm reading into that link. I know some of you can probably look at the specs on the 50's and my pinnacles and see if they look like a match. I will find the right deal on Revel surrounds and a center, but for now I'm limited.
Edited by comfynumb - 1/31/13 at 11:09am
post #2995 of 6806
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

It is always nice to have the matching set. At the very least I'll have fun trying a different amp with the 50's. if they ever get here, it's going to be nerve racking waiting. What speakers do you have?

5 JBL PT800 (think Revel Gem2), two custom JBL L212, pair of Revel subs.
post #2996 of 6806
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

5 JBL PT800 (think Revel Gem2), two custom JBL L212, pair of Revel subs.


Nice, I"d love to hear those!
post #2997 of 6806
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Nice, I"d love to hear those!
The customs, I should not really call L212s, as the only things the same as original are the size of the boxes and the 112A mid-bass drivers.
The 052Ti tweeters replaced the 066 Al tweeters
The 2105 Pro midranges replaced the LE5-9 mids
The boxes are mirror imaged (better soundstage)
And last but not least, Biased crossover networks.
The components for the XOs cost more than some people want to spend on a pair of speakers.
For pure stereo playback, I prefer the customs to the PT800s. biggrin.gif
And the PT800s are better than any other speaker in the $3K range, imo.smile.gif
And having auditioned the Gem2, I would not pay the difference.

I would want to go up to at least the Salon2 on an upgrade.smile.gif
post #2998 of 6806
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

It is always nice to have the matching set. At the very least I'll have fun trying a different amp with the 50's. if they ever get here, it's going to be nerve racking waiting. What speakers do you have?

Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Hi, sounds like good advice thanks. Since you mentioned other speakers, I'm going to use a deaf tech supercube 1, at least for now. And I've have a great pair of pinnacle BD650's I use for surrounds. Your thoughts on how both of those would match up? The pinnacles are a good bookshelf speaker, 3 way and can take my amp no problem. I'm not as technically advanced as many of you on here, that said I'm reading into that link. I know some of you can probably look at the specs on the 50's and my pinnacles and see if they look like a match. I will find the right deal on Revel surrounds and a center, but for now I'm limited.

Your money is better spent on getting a better sub than playing amp roulette. Amps are basically created =, whereas subs are not.
post #2999 of 6806
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

The customs, I should not really call L212s, as the only things the same as original are the size of the boxes and the 112A mid-bass drivers.
The 052Ti tweeters replaced the 066 Al tweeters
The 2105 Pro midranges replaced the LE5-9 mids
The boxes are mirror imaged (better soundstage)
And last but not least, Biased crossover networks.
The components for the XOs cost more than some people want to spend on a pair of speakers.
For pure stereo playback, I prefer the customs to the PT800s. biggrin.gif
And the PT800s are better than any other speaker in the $3K range, imo.smile.gif
And having auditioned the Gem2, I would not pay the difference.

I would want to go up to at least the Salon2 on an upgrade.smile.gif


Awesome! If I remember right your L212's are almost like a big monitor? I think I remember adds for these in some of the magazines I used to read. Very expensive. The salon's look amazing but really I would have a hard time giving up what you have.
Edited by comfynumb - 1/31/13 at 3:29pm
post #3000 of 6806
Quote:
Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post


Your money is better spent on getting a better sub than playing amp roulette. Amps are basically created =, whereas subs are not.

So a Revel sub?
Edited by comfynumb - 1/31/13 at 3:34pm
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