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Revel Owners Thread - Page 116

post #3451 of 6799
Quote:
Originally Posted by lsdec View Post

Considering that you have the Salons, this is irrelevant to you.

But for someone who is considering btw F12s & F208s, this is valuable info especially if they can't A/B them.

The guy said he had BOTH pairs of speakers and while his opinion is one man's opinion, he is speaking from personal experience and must have just upgraded!

Have you heard the new F208s yet? And the F208s next to the F12s? His opinion is actually an opinion formed from ownership and testing vs. pure speculation.

I think it's silly to question someone who takes the time to share his experience.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with taking all opinions from EVERYONE with a grain of salt. Absolutely nothing wrong with being skeptical until actual measurements are done for comparison. Nothing wrong.

A valid single-blinded test comparing the F12 vs F206 would also be good; just take the bass out of the equation by using subs and level matching.

Revel (all Harman) speakers are made to be accurate and neutral, not colored. So they tend to be accurate in reproducing the original sound. The Salon2 may be +/-0.5dB per spec, and the F12 may be +/-1.0dB in spec. And unless the new F208 is COLORED in sound, it is not going to sound drastically DIFFERENT than the original sound. Deductive reasoning follows that the new F208's midrange and treble will not sound drastically and "multiples" different than the F12.

What is the F206/208's measurement spec from Revel anyway? Why don't they at least tell us if it is +/-1.0dB in-room response or something.

I wasn't born yesterday. I have auditioned so many speakers. And I see people from all walks say things like "so and so speakers sound so much better". Then when I do compare for myself, I see that it was way over exaggerated AS USUAL.

Okay, perhaps they are a little different. But not "multiples" and "night and day" different.

Nothing wrong with being skeptical. Absolutely nothing wrong.
post #3452 of 6799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adim X View Post

Oh yeah!





















Got some setup to play with.

CONGRATS!

They are very beautiful looking.
post #3453 of 6799
Nice to see Revel go with Walnut over Cherry.
post #3454 of 6799
The walnut looks nice in your setup
post #3455 of 6799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adim X View Post

Oh yeah! ................................... Got some setup to play with.

Congratulations! Nice looking set. I didn't realise the backs of the standmount models were flat, unlike the floorstanders.
post #3456 of 6799
Quote:
Originally Posted by denydog View Post

Congratulations! Nice looking set. I didn't realise the backs of the standmount models were flat, unlike the floorstanders.

It's the same for the Ultima2 as well. The Gem2 is not curved like the Studio2 and Salon2.
post #3457 of 6799
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

Multiple means more than one. So are you saying the F208 sounds "twice" as good as the F12, which is 100% better?

Or do you mean "20%" better?

Opinions of all sorts are everywhere. I take all opinions with a grain of salt.

Show me that the F208 objectively measures better than the F12 and maybe I will believe. I am skeptical in nature. biggrin.gif
I have a strong command of the english language, and know what "multiples" means. I am also good at math as I am a CFO and deal with billions of dollars. rolleyes.gif
post #3458 of 6799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esox50 View Post

I have a strong command of the english language, and know what "multiples" means. I am also good at math as I am a CFO and deal with billions of dollars. rolleyes.gif

I had no idea the word "multiples" has an unequivocal precise singular meaning. I'm sure 100% of all people know exactly what you meant by "multiples". eek.gif

Speaker A sounds "multiples" better than speaker B. Everyone knows for sure without question the comparison was done level matched and blinded to avoid bias. biggrin.gif

And all must believe the opinion without question as if it were the Ten Commandants brought down by Moses himself. biggrin.gif

Seriously, all I meant to ask was, "Did you mean the F208 sounded twice as good as the F12?"

Please take everything else I say with a grain of salt and pepper and very loosely. biggrin.gif
Edited by AcuDefTechGuy - 3/14/13 at 10:59am
post #3459 of 6799
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

There is absolutely nothing wrong with taking all opinions from EVERYONE with a grain of salt. Absolutely nothing wrong with being skeptical until actual measurements are done for comparison. Nothing wrong.
I guess if you say "nothing wrong" a few more times, you'll convince yourself? tongue.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

A valid single-blinded test comparing the F12 vs F206 would also be good; just take the bass out of the equation by using subs and level matching.

Revel (all Harman) speakers are made to be accurate and neutral, not colored. So they tend to be accurate in reproducing the original sound. The Salon2 may be +/-0.5dB per spec, and the F12 may be +/-1.0dB in spec. And unless the new F208 is COLORED in sound, it is not going to sound drastically DIFFERENT than the original sound. Deductive reasoning follows that the new F208's midrange and treble will not sound drastically and "multiples" different than the F12.

What is the F206/208's measurement spec from Revel anyway? Why don't they at least tell us if it is +/-1.0dB in-room response or something.

I wasn't born yesterday. I have auditioned so many speakers. And I see people from all walks say things like "so and so speakers sound so much better". Then when I do compare for myself, I see that it was way over exaggerated AS USUAL.

Okay, perhaps they are a little different. But not "multiples" and "night and day" different.

Nothing wrong with being skeptical. Absolutely nothing wrong.
I have auditioned many speakers as well. Now what? Doesn't make me or you any sort of authority or expert, even though by posting this you seem to imply that listening to many speaker makes your opinion worth more than someone else's. As lsdec posted, I am sitting looking at the F12 side by side to the F208 as I post this.

Why take the bass out of the equation? I am listening to the speaker as a whole. What's next? Lets take the midrange and treble out of the equation too? Then I agree...they will sound the same. wink.gifbiggrin.gif Maybe that's what these expert magazine reviewers mean when they say "the sound comes from nothingness". cool.gif

Hey, so answer me this? If "Revel (all Harman) speakers are made to be accurate and neutral, not colored. So they tend to be accurate in reproducing the original sound." as you say, then why didn't you get a pair of used Salon1 or F30s? They all are marketed as accurate and neutral...I guess this means you went for the Salon2 because they were "extra" accurate and neutral? LOL. wink.gif

Listening side by side, just some comments:
Dynamics - F208 trounces F12
Bass - F208 is much better F208
Imaging - F208 is way better than the F12 (unles you move your head 6" to the right biggrin.gif)
Mids/treble - I can only describe it as "less grainy". Note though that the F12s by themselves never struck me as "grainy"...but side by side to the F208...they do now sound "grainy".
Everything is tighter
Aesthetics is much better (though I understand this is PURELY a matter of opinion)

So, yes, taken a whole, I feel thee F208s are MULTIPLES better. Yes, I know what multiples means.

We get it, you're from the school of science and Revel hasn't published the measurements you want to see, so these F208s can't be that much better than the F12s. All amps sound the same too; it never has anything to do with how amps and speakers interact...all that matters are the manufacturers measurements in a controlled environment to suit their marketing. To each his own.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go back to listening. I can listen forever with these...
post #3460 of 6799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esox50 View Post

I guess if you say "nothing wrong" a few more times, you'll convince yourself? tongue.gif
I have auditioned many speakers as well. Now what? Doesn't make me or you any sort of authority or expert, even though by posting this you seem to imply that listening to many speaker makes your opinion worth more than someone else's. As lsdec posted, I am sitting looking at the F12 side by side to the F208 as I post this.

Why take the bass out of the equation? I am listening to the speaker as a whole. What's next? Lets take the midrange and treble out of the equation too? Then I agree...they will sound the same. wink.gifbiggrin.gif Maybe that's what these expert magazine reviewers mean when they say "the sound comes from nothingness". cool.gif

Hey, so answer me this? If "Revel (all Harman) speakers are made to be accurate and neutral, not colored. So they tend to be accurate in reproducing the original sound." as you say, then why didn't you get a pair of used Salon1 or F30s? They all are marketed as accurate and neutral...I guess this means you went for the Salon2 because they were "extra" accurate and neutral? LOL. wink.gif

Listening side by side, just some comments:
Dynamics - F208 trounces F12
Bass - F208 is much better F208
Imaging - F208 is way better than the F12 (unles you move your head 6" to the right biggrin.gif)
Mids/treble - I can only describe it as "less grainy". Note though that the F12s by themselves never struck me as "grainy"...but side by side to the F208...they do now sound "grainy".
Everything is tighter
Aesthetics is much better (though I understand this is PURELY a matter of opinion)

So, yes, taken a whole, I feel thee F208s are MULTIPLES better. Yes, I know what multiples means.

We get it, you're from the school of science and Revel hasn't published the measurements you want to see, so these F208s can't be that much better than the F12s. All amps sound the same too; it never has anything to do with how amps and speakers interact...all that matters are the manufacturers measurements in a controlled environment to suit their marketing. To each his own.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go back to listening. I can listen forever with these...

It's fine you love your new speakers. Totally expected. Congrats! We're happy for you. But please be kind and try not to make those who own F12, F32, F52 feel less than great. That's all I'm saying. biggrin.gif
Edited by AcuDefTechGuy - 3/14/13 at 11:13am
post #3461 of 6799
I feel great Mr ADTG lol, my 52's made audiophilereview.coms #16 greatest speakers of all time, and that was at any price. We can all take that with a grain of salt as it means nothing and only someone's opinion tongue.gif IMO it's all in the ear of the beholder. Would I give mine up for another speaker? Maybe for your Salons and that would be about it. The chief financial officer ought to know its all subjective.
post #3462 of 6799
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

It's fine you love your new speakers. Totally expected. Congrats! We're happy for you. But please be kind and try not to make those who own F12, F32, F52 feel less than great. That's all I'm saying. biggrin.gif
Clearly that was not my intent. I own the F12s too, and would put them up against any speaker in their price range, even now 7+ years after they were developed.

The F32 I would not buy, and in fact I passed on them to get the F12s instead. And I have nothing but the utmost regard for the F52. In late 2007, I was able to hear the F12, F32, and F52 all side by side. By the time my buy decision came, it was late 2008, and with the economy I couldn't justify the F52s and C52 (F52 x 4 + C52). I didn't feel the F32 was worth it over the F12.
post #3463 of 6799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esox50 View Post

...
Listening side by side, just some comments:
Dynamics - F208 trounces F12
Bass - F208 is much better F208
Imaging - F208 is way better than the F12 (unles you move your head 6" to the right biggrin.gif)
Mids/treble - I can only describe it as "less grainy". Note though that the F12s by themselves never struck me as "grainy"...but side by side to the F208...they do now sound "grainy".
Everything is tighter
Aesthetics is much better (though I understand this is PURELY a matter of opinion)
...

Huh? Hopefully you don't make mistakes like this on your balance sheets! tongue.gif
post #3464 of 6799
^^ Lmao!
post #3465 of 6799
Quote:
F208 bass > F208 bass

******** Doh********** biggrin.gif

For the record, I won't even say "My Salon2 trounces all over the F12 multiple times".

I will just say all the Revel speakers sound great. Period. wink.gif
post #3466 of 6799
Quote:
Originally Posted by beaveav View Post

Huh? Hopefully you don't make mistakes like this on your balance sheets! tongue.gif
Haha...yes, clearly meant F12 on the second one. smile.gif
post #3467 of 6799
Just a quick update on my Performa3's C205, M106, and M105s (as surrounds) SVS PC12 Plus Sub, Onkyo 805, HTPC as source for Bluray Rips. This is my first foray into non-big box store speakers. I ran a quick Audyssey setup last night. I am by no means a critical listener, I am still learning and reading in order to gain a better understanding of how to listen critically. When listening to music in stereo mode (L,R,Sub) the imaging is fantastic and the sweet spot is very wide. Being bookshelfs, the M106's sound great in a (direct or pure) listening mode, but they are sorely lacking on the low end for my tastes, hence the 800 watts of SVS. We watched the Hobbit last night after the Audyssey setup (THX Cinema), it was the first movie that I have never had to constantly jack with the center channel to hear the dialogue. My speakers are set to 80hz X over, and the sub is at 120hz. I am thoroughly impressed. I will try to report back in the near future with maybe a more technical explanation. For now, the sound stage is just fantastic, unlike anything I have ever heard.
post #3468 of 6799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adim X View Post

Just a quick update on my Performa3's C205, M106, and M105s (as surrounds) SVS PC12 Plus Sub, Onkyo 805, HTPC as source for Bluray Rips. This is my first foray into non-big box store speakers. I ran a quick Audyssey setup last night. I am by no means a critical listener, I am still learning and reading in order to gain a better understanding of how to listen critically. When listening to music in stereo mode (L,R,Sub) the imaging is fantastic and the sweet spot is very wide. Being bookshelfs, the M106's sound great in a (direct or pure) listening mode, but they are sorely lacking on the low end for my tastes, hence the 800 watts of SVS. We watched the Hobbit last night after the Audyssey setup (THX Cinema), it was the first movie that I have never had to constantly jack with the center channel to hear the dialogue. My speakers are set to 80hz X over, and the sub is at 120hz. I am thoroughly impressed. I will try to report back in the near future with maybe a more technical explanation. For now, the sound stage is just fantastic, unlike anything I have ever heard.



Hi, glad to hear that your enjoying your Revels, they are a great sounding speaker. I'm still playing with the toe in/out and crossover settings, distances and other variables. For me coming from a pair of PSB's, the Revel fronts are a total new experience in terms of imaging, soundstage and some things I can't quite put my finger on. So I think your just getting used to the sound and will make adjustments to suit your taste as time goes by. Each speaker has it's own characteristics, we just need to compliment them with our settings to get the best possible sound. Which will happen for all of us. I'm sure I'll be tinkering around for a long time smile.gif
post #3469 of 6799
I'm getting ahead of myself here but I thought I'd pose this question.
I have a dedicated theater\music room on the lower level of my house that is optimized for multi-channel playback.

Last fall I put together a 2-channel system for the living room on the main floor.
Due to various circumstances that system has rapidly evolved into an Oppo-105, Anthem D2, Studio2s and a very nice DIY power amp 100 watts per side.
BTW, I have a pair of monoblocks arriving tomorrow that have a lot more juice than the stereo amp listed above, but that's another posting.
My dream system would actually be a 3.0 one so I could play my multi-channel SACDs and DVD-As, minus the surrounds of course which I don't want to futz with in that room, period.
I fully understand that certain MCH recordings have a lot of info in the surrounds but the majority of them really only have ambient info with the main content in the L/C/R.

I can't afford to buy a single Studio2 to make the L/C/R speakers identical like my theater room BUT what about getting a F-208 for a center channel?
From the pic that Dennis posted the F-208 is almost identical in height and is identical in driver configuration to the Studio2s.
Would the timbre match be close enough between these 2 speakers to make my 3.0 system doable?

Any thoughts? Like have I lost my mind? Would I be better off just sticking to 2-channel and shut up?
I would especially be interested in Dennis' take on this as he has real world experience with both speakers but I certainly invite anyone else to chime in please.
post #3470 of 6799
Are you planning on buying another mono block for the F208, should you go with this option?

I personally think its a pretty crazy idea. If I had a pair of studios, I'd spend that F208 center money into buying a pair of Emotiva XPR-1s.

I'd think that'd make a much bigger overall impact.
post #3471 of 6799
lsdec, I appreciate your feedback even if you think I'm nuts.smile.gif

Yes, I'd be buying another monoblock for the center speaker.
The XPR-1's seem like overkill for my room plus they each require a 20 amp circuit.
Plus I really don't want gigantic amps in the living room.
If I felt I needed more power, I'd be looking at a digital\switching amp solution.
Which are exactly the opposite in terms of efficiency than the amps I'm testing.

The amps coming tomorrow are Emotiva XPA-1Ls.
30 watts Class A, then they switch to class A/B and are rated at 250 watts @ 8ohms.
If I remember correctly, the Studio2s are 6 ohms nominal and don't present a tough load for an amp.

This is nothing I would do right away as I first need to get the power amp situation squared away.
post #3472 of 6799
Milt,

I do not believe that a center peaker has to be identical to R&L fronts.

They generally handle only 5-15% of the total output of multichannel movies or concerts and this is generally dialog or a partial sound effect. Almost no drum twacks or triangle tings and tangs here. This makes differences very difficult to hear due to the overwhelming influence of the R&L fronts. You have probably guessed my answer to your question: Yes, the C208 would do a seamless job in filling in your center for the Studio2s. That is my present configuration.

I believe the same reasoning stands for the sides and rears. All of this assumes that the center and surrounds are of high audio quality. We have tested amplifers at full output at outdoor concert venues with ammeters on each channel with concerts and movies and noticed how little of the total current (amperes) is sent to the center and surrounds. This is with real sound and music, not continuous sine waves from a signal generator - that is a different story.

Dennis
post #3473 of 6799
I don't think you are nuts, just trying to get the best out of your system. The Studio2 needs a good powerful amp per the Revel dealer.

I listened to them being driven by a 500 watt / channel stereo amp and it sounded amazing. The F208s sound close, in fact pretty darn close with the same Revel house sound but the Studio2s are better. In fact if any fool tells you that the F208s sound better, they are either hard of hearing or stupid. cool.gif

I'm just happy that I got something close to the studio2s in my house. When I first heard them last year (studio2), I couldn't believe how amazing they were. I personally feel all your attention should be getting the most out of them within your budget. The sound i listened to were prolly near that level and based on your setup, I am not sure if u are getting that.

Maybe the XPR-2 then. It would be just one giant amp and you don't need a 20 amp circuit. I know someone who has 2 XPR-1s and an XPR-5 who has it plugged all in one 15amp circuit with no problems.

And there is no such thing as too much clean power. smile.gif
post #3474 of 6799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post

I'm getting ahead of myself here but I thought I'd pose this question.
I have a dedicated theater\music room on the lower level of my house that is optimized for multi-channel playback.

Last fall I put together a 2-channel system for the living room on the main floor.
Due to various circumstances that system has rapidly evolved into an Oppo-105, Anthem D2, Studio2s and a very nice DIY power amp 100 watts per side.
BTW, I have a pair of monoblocks arriving tomorrow that have a lot more juice than the stereo amp listed above, but that's another posting.
My dream system would actually be a 3.0 one so I could play my multi-channel SACDs and DVD-As, minus the surrounds of course which I don't want to futz with in that room, period.
I fully understand that certain MCH recordings have a lot of info in the surrounds but the majority of them really only have ambient info with the main content in the L/C/R.

I can't afford to buy a single Studio2 to make the L/C/R speakers identical like my theater room BUT what about getting a F-208 for a center channel?
From the pic that Dennis posted the F-208 is almost identical in height and is identical in driver configuration to the Studio2s.
Would the timbre match be close enough between these 2 speakers to make my 3.0 system doable?

Any thoughts? Like have I lost my mind? Would I be better off just sticking to 2-channel and shut up?
I would especially be interested in Dennis' take on this as he has real world experience with both speakers but I certainly invite anyone else to chime in please.

I probably would stick with two-channel, and add a very musical sub or two down the road. If not, you may wish to pick up a JBL PC600, as its midrange drivers effectively match those of the Ultima2 line, and it is relatively cheap (though not a full-range speaker). Perhaps comfynumb can weigh in on the speaker, itself?
post #3475 of 6799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post

I can't afford to buy a single Studio2 to make the L/C/R speakers identical like my theater room BUT what about getting a F-208 for a center channel?

Just save up and contact some dealers out of state for a single Studio2 @ 25% off.
post #3476 of 6799
Nice. Good advice knowing that Revel frequents this forum. frown.gif
post #3477 of 6799
Thanks for the advice but there's no way I would buy a single Studio2 even at 25% off.
I'd buy a new projector first.
The 3.0 system is not a big deal, just thinking out loud.
I still think that a single F208 would match close enough though. smile.gif
post #3478 of 6799
Would you buy 3 F208s and sell the Studio2s? Just thinking out loud as well. You would probably have cash in hand too afterwards. wink.gif
post #3479 of 6799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post

Thanks for the advice but there's no way I would buy a single Studio2 even at 25% off.
I'd buy a new projector first.
The 3.0 system is not a big deal, just thinking out loud.
I still think that a single F208 would match close enough though. smile.gif

What about a single Gem2?
post #3480 of 6799
There are a bunch of different ways you can go Milt. My JBL center works really well, I can't tell it's a different speaker than my fronts biggrin.gif
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