Revel Owners Thread - Page 15

How do you guys deal with light reflection from the top cabinet of the center speaker? I have my C32 in cherry under my projection screen and the reflection is pretty annoying. Any solution?

I haven't built my HT yet, but I assume you mean light reflections? Maybe lay a piece of black felt on top of the speaker?

Yes, I mean light reflection. It would be a shame to put a piece of cloth in such a nice looking speaker.

Do you have cherry or maple?

Cherry.

OK, thanks, I'll keep this issue in mind when I come to pick a color, which I had thought might be mahogany (Ultima2 line) rather than black. Both are glossy, which might also be an issue.

I tilt the Voice2, within its cradle that is attached to the pedestal, upward towards the listening position. This leaves approximately 1" of reflective high gloss surface during viewing which is tolerable. Then I slouch in my sofa to make that 1” of glare completely disappear.

I ordered a pair of new Studio2 today. The Voice2 looks abnormally large when paired with the Gem2 as fronts, so I will shrink the Voice2 by flanking it with the Studio2’s. I do like the fact that the Gem2 & Studio2 are near identical height. I really like the look of the Gem2s though, so hopefully I’m not shooting myself in the foot by supersizing.

Since the Performa line I believe is matte rather than glossy, do you mean that the speaker surface itself is a visible distraction when viewing, or do you mean that reflections of light from the speaker surface hit the screen and cause noticable light contamination?

Is your Voice2 black or mahogany?

^^^^ Yeah, that.

My Voice2 is mahogany (as shown below), which seems more like light cherry to me. I do wish it was a darker finish, but I didn't want all black, so mahogany was still the better of the two choices.

As the bass response of the Studio2's is more extended, you may run into some trouble with the right speaker being close to the corner (based on your pic above). Any way you could slide your entire sytem to the left a couple of feet? You may also need to pull the speakers out from the front wall a foot or two.

I plan on setting all speakers to SMALL and crossover to 80Hz, as this is the THX standard. I expect to have the right Studio2 one foot from each wall. I don't want to slide the setup to the left at all because it's perfectly centered to the sofa and I like to allow equal/ample walking room from both sides. I suppose I could move the setup a few more inches away from the wall, but I prefer not to.

Considering my preferences, am I making a mistake going with Studio2's for fronts? Seems like the Gem2s are made to be close to a wall, as I am using the "contour" setting on the front dial and I don't notice any placement/imaging related issues.

With your placement constraints, you may be better off with the Gem's. A good sub can fill in the bottom end.

The whole situation with proper placement becomes more complicated with floorstanding speakers because you have to take into account the distance of each of the multiple bass drivers to the floor and nearby walls.

For instance, if the bottom bass driver is 1.5 feet from the floor (which it is on the Studio2), 1.5 feet from the side wall and 1.5 feet from the rear wall you are selectively reinforcing the bass frequency whos 1/4 wavelength equals 1.5 feet (about 210Hz).

The golden rule for speaker placement is that none of the bass or midrange drivers should be equal distances from any surface (floor, side and front walls).

Ideally, the Studio2's should be 3-4 feet from the side and front walls, or you take the risk of ending up with a peak in the upper bass.

Unless you plan to run the Studio2's full range or you like to listen to your movies / music at very loud levels, I see no need to go with them over the Gem2's + sub. If you move the sound system to a bigger room with more set-up flexibility, the Studio2's + sub could be a very impressive combination, but in your current situation, the Gem2's + sub is a better option.

I read a comment once that while placing speakers near the front wall has problems, placing 2-3 feet out from the front wall is even worse, because you get nulls at certain bass frequencies, and you can't do anything about nulls.

Any comments?

Too many variables to make a broad claim like that. Depends on the room, the speaker, and the listening position. 2-3 feet MAY be worse, MAY be better. The only way to know is to try different positions and listen to music that you are familiar with, or even better, use an RTA (like the freeware program "Romm EQ Wizard") to measure the response at each postion. The later takes a lot of the guess work out of the equation.

Agree 100% on all points...

Speaker placement guidelines are just that...guidelines. It's a great place to start, but may not be the end point depending on any number of factors. My best results come from having the speakers out about 2 ft from the front wall. Go figure...

And using something like REW makes life much, much easier for the budding tweak-o-phile. Try plotting 20Hz-200Hz manually in Excel every time you make a placement adjustment and you'll be using a RTA in no time.


Scott

Forgive my lack of experience, but I have one of my ML Descent subs just inches from the side walls (in a nook beside the fireplace) and behind that right sofa. So the this sub is essentially boxed in on 3 sides, and it sounds great to me, although this could be a colossal placement boo boo for all I know. Very deep & tight bass and I only need to turn the output to 30% on this sub.



Also, there is a seller on Audigon that appears to place his Revel Studio2's approximately 1' from the wall as shown here and he seems to know what he's doing (unlike me).

Quote from this Studio2 owner:
I have a pair of this speaker’s smaller sibling, the Studio2, in my reference system right now (shown in pictures below). I am testing them with a Krell Evo 402 power amp, Krell Evo 202 pre amp and my reference $6,000 Bel Canto transport. They sound absolutely incredible. The news ones sound incredibly better, no fatigue at all, I am using them for both 2 channel music CD and SACD and also for movies.

So, could I make these Studio2's work in my room without drastically rearranging my setup? I would be willing to move them out to be flush with the Voice2 if need be, but beyond that is undesirable. In light of my personal setup restrictions, would the sound be better with four Gem2's + Voice2 instead of Studio2/Voice2/Gem2? I really would like the Studio'2 for listening to stereo music as they seem like the better performer when compared to Gem2's in stereo, but again, home theater use takes precedence.

The room for this setup is > 7000 cubic feet: 21' x 16' x 21.25'

However, the open space to fill with heating/cooling/sound is actually larger than these dimensions because of the open stairway (800 cubic feet), 2nd floor walkway, the open foyer, another small opening to other rooms, and large entry to kitchen. I suppose the more accurate estimate would be 8000 cubic feet for this open room. Perhaps this variable justifies the Studio2 as fronts over the Gem2s? Otherwise, I need to contact my dealer pronto to try and change my order to another pair of Gem2s. I've already paid for the Studio2s and I'm pretty sure they already ordered, but perhaps Revel hasn't shipped yet.

Thanks in advance for the priceless help you guys are providing.

Neo -Geo,

First, forget most of what I said in my first post. I neglected to take into account that your AV Receiver has room EQ functionality. Setting up and engauging the room EQ on your Pionee AVR will help minimize the effects of your speaker placement. It is still best to start with a good foundation for the EQ by properly placing the speakers and the sub, so see what you can do to get that right speaker out of the corner, but even with your current placement, the EQ should minimize any gross errors in the bass response.

Knowing this now and also considering that you have a massive room to fill, it would be OK to go with the Studio2's. Now you may not NEED them, because it looks like you sit rather close to your set-up, but it shoulldn't hurt either. I bet you are glad to hear that.

Now you mentioned that you have your sub close to a wall, and you wondered if that was OK. For subwoofers, yes, near wall placement can work and work quite well. When you place a sub near a wall or in a corner, it boosts all of the frequencies in the sub's range equally, which gives your sub an easier job to do. I won't bore you with the specifics, so just trust me on that one. However, where you place the sub in the room can have a great affect on how smooth the response of the sub is. But, it sounds like you got lucky, as you said you are happy with the sound.

So there ya go. Problem solved and you are in the clear to get some really sweet new speakers.

If you run into any trouble with the set-up, or if you start to notice that something doesn't sound quite right (it can take some time to get a sense of a new sound system), you know where to come. Pay particular attention to the upper bass and lower midrange (bass guitar and male vocals).

BTW - If I were you, I would take some time to read through the section of the Pioneer manual on the "MCACC" room EQ functionality of your AVR. You may need to tweak the settings to fine-tune the sound in the future, so best get to learning how to use it now.

Cheers.

- Tim

Nonetheless, I would certainly consider acoustical treatment. In the few pix, I see a hardwood floor and almost bare walls. That, along with the very close positioning of the speakers to the walls/boundaries, reflection and mode problems that will make tough sledding for any electronic EQ system.

Agreed, but he seems happy with the results he's getting so far, so I tried to work within his frame of mind. Not everyone is as critical as I am and I assume you are about sound quality, and / or they are new at the hobby and have yet to discover all the things that are wrong with the sound. With due time, due time . . . .

Thanks hifisponge and others. I decided to keep my order for the Studio2. I do use the automatic MCACC setup on my Pioneer receiver by placing the included mic in the exact listening position, so it's reassuring to know that this feature can help compensate for my subpar speaker placement skills. Besides, I'd probably be oblivious to the sonic imperfections that you guys would easily perceive.

I'm definitely not enough of an audio nut to add acoustical treatments (no offense to those that are).

Also, a friend of mine told me that the larger Salon2 could actually sound worse than the Studio2 because the overwhelming sound waves would cancel or overlap one another, either killing the bass or causing too much interference. Golly, so much to consider. Fingers are crossed. I'll share my experiences when I finally get the new gear.

Wow! Not enough of an audio nut to hear the sonic imperfections or to deal with them but willing to spend >>$10K on new speakers. Does anyone else see this as strange?


Simplistic analysis.

You are "enough on an audio nut" to spend $30K on loudspeakers so it seems a bit odd that you are not interested in optimizing them. Oh well, to each his own.

Yes, and no. How many well-to-do people own exotic sports cars capable of reaching speeds of over 120 MPH, yet they never take them up past 65 MPH? How many people have SUV's that only drive them to the grocery store, work and school? How many people have massive homes, only to use a fraction of the living space?

People buy nice sh*t for many reasons other than their practical or intended use.

Welcome to the land of excess.

Of course. But this guy is making the mistake of asking us about his, admittedly, very personal choices.

Hank at Revel would have a heart attack to hear the words "Pioneer receiver" and "Studio2" in the same sentence. I just got chided a little for wanting to use the NAD Masters M3 dual mono integrated!
True, but if you're using a Japanese receiver with debatable compensation, bad set up and no room treatment, it probably makes sense to not spend the extra $6K.

We'd tell them that it was kinda silly if they bothered to ask us, but they usually don't.

It would help you to move the system to the right and, barring that, move the equipment to the corner. The front of a speaker should be 2.5' or greater from any wall for best performance. Even if you have them a little closer than you'd like. Putting a speaker near a side wall actually doesn't increase the image size, once it's about 2-3' away or closer, the image size stays the same, but gets lower in fidelity as you get closer.

Also, mounting the LCD would help, or go to a projector - better sound and imaging.