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Revel Owners Thread - Page 141

post #4201 of 6788
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwally View Post

Just ordered some walnut F208s from DSONIC for my 2ch vinyl system. I never thought I'd buy speakers with metal dome tweeters or aluminum mids since I've heard too much ringing distortion from that recipe in my lifetime, but if Harman can't get them right then nobody can. No audition. Didn't feel the need. cool.gif



Congrats and let us know what you think smile.gif
post #4202 of 6788
Quote:
Originally Posted by 65 Electra Glide View Post

Congrats! I'm envious, but I recently made a major speaker purchase of my own and will have to hold off of Performa 3s for now.

Thank you. What did you get?

It took me months to land on the Revels. I came close to getting a pair of Legacy Focus SEs on Audiogon but the seller was a flake, then I got bit hard by a pair of Magnepan 3.7s. Not enough slam for my rock moods though, but more dynamic than I remember the 3.6s being. Tyler Acoustics was in the running along with Salk, Philharmonic, Pioneer/TAD, and KEF, but I think I made the right choice for my preferences. It would have been nice to have RAAL ribbons involved, but once I watched the Revel video on the engineering of the Performa3 I was hooked. Mark Glazer and the team are as good as it gets.
post #4203 of 6788
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prosoft7 View Post

Ordered my F208s and C208. Will run these using Parasound 5250 v.2 & alternately using Sunfire TGA-5200. Excitedly waiting for these arrive!!!
Will share more about my experience once I get them



Congrats! We need pics too smile.gif
post #4204 of 6788
My affection for Revel speakers started with the M20s in Rosewood so whenever a new model comes out i give it a listen and did so with the Performa 3s. Short answer, didn't like them, went online and bought a mint C52 and F52s. C52 and F52 owners, do you also think the same?
post #4205 of 6788
My affection for Revel speakers started with the M20s in Rosewood so whenever a new model comes out i give it a listen and did so with the Performa 3s. Short answer, didn't like them, went online and bought a mint C52 and F52s. C52 and F52 owners, do you also think the same?
post #4206 of 6788
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orbitron View Post

My affection for Revel speakers started with the M20s in Rosewood so whenever a new model comes out i give it a listen and did so with the Performa 3s. Short answer, didn't like them, went online and bought a mint C52 and F52s. C52 and F52 owners, do you also think the same?



That's kind of surprising, although I haven't heard the Performa3 line by all accounts they sound amazing. I have quite a few questions I hope you don't mind. Where did you hear them? We're they set up correctly? What kind of amp and power rating were going into them? What didn't you like about them? I have the F52's but opted not to pay the price for the C52, I bought a JBL PC600 instead.
post #4207 of 6788
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwally View Post

Thank you. What did you get?

A dual sub complete NHT Xd system, if not the last one they had, certainly one of the last sets.

FWIW, here is what a former dealer of both Revel and NHT had to say about comparing them to Revel Ultima 2s here on this thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

As an aside, they are a bit more forward than NHT's Xd and Xd still can do a few things as well, possibly marginally better, but the Xd can't do from 50-250hz like the Studios, nor is the treble as good on Xd. Xds have a slightly wider sweetspot and can throw a bigger soundstage while being closer together. On the other hand, the Revels can work well with a wider stance than Xd which helps with HT. Xds go a bit deeper and are better in the area where the Revels would have assist from a sub. The Revels have an even sharper edge on stuff like guitar and other stringed or brass instruments. Acoustic guitar is ridiculously good. The Revels are very similar to JMLab Electra/Utopia speakers in many ways, but have more integrated treble, more resolution, bigger soundstage, more pinpoint imaging and way more kickass bass. Arguably, the Revels are on the big side of what i need for this room, but i don't know that the Gems would necessarily be better either, maybe just less imposing looking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

Also, keep in mind that Ultima is a prestige product as much as a performance product. If you want to sell a 5-figure speaker, it *has* to have prestige as well. Otherwise, it won't compete in sales with a B&W or Focal, even if it's better. That's what hampered us with NHT Xd. The performance was up there with Ultima in many, if not most, ways, but it was 'too cheap', 'too small', 'it says NHT on it' etc, etc, etc. And if everyone can afford it, well, why buy it? This is why Revel has Performa. And why VW has Audi. It makes no sense to dilute Ultima to make more accessible.


But you never know, maybe a 4th line will come about to fill in this gap or maybe Performa will just be more on the level of Ultima in a few years. I like the fact that Revel isn't making too many models. There's no reason for all this price point engineering from all these companies. Obviousy, $8000 is a lot for a center by anyone's imagination, but on the other hand, it *is* a Studio2, so how could it not be $8k?


I'll tell you this, Ultimas make a lot of very popular high-end speaker seem pretty overpriced. At least these guys walk the walk!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post


I only got a little sibilance in the first few hours - very slight, but it went away quickly. The main thing is that a lot of my rock CDs had too much lower treble, kind of a hashy, noisy sound that is normally either buried or not happening with poly drivers or even some different metal driver designs. With a lot of the little things I've done and time, much of that has gone away or is well reduced - at first, I was listening NAD's tilt control shifting the tonal balance by 2dB, but am now listening flat more often. The tweeter on the Revels is fortunately adjustable and I very much prefer the -1dB setting regardless. I'd even suggested maybe that should be the 0dB setting. I was being fatigued by them early on and sometimes they just didn't sound right on some CDs, but either they're warming up to me or the opposite. The are, without a doubt, the most truly revealing speakers I've heard in that I can more clearly hear lyrics on spanish CDs I have, even compared to Xd.


When I'd heard the 1037s, they were supposedly broken in and I felt the same as what you mentioned - there was too much going on and i could barely hear the midrange over the tweeter. To be fair, if I'd heard the Revels in the same way broken in, I might have been more pessimistic. Bass was a bit over the top almost, now it's more integrated too. I'm not totally willing to let the Revels off the hook yet and want to try some experiments with the waveguide. I'm used to my Xds which I can CRANK and they never fatigue or sound untoward. But I've noticed more ability to enjoy the Revels lately and i think I can further address the issues. The interesting thing is that both the Xds and the Revels are crossed over at 2kHz, but whereas I can hear a lot of voice in the Revel's tweeter, it's hardly there on the Xds, probably because of the 110dB/octave slope. I'm also not quite sure I like the sound of Be, to be honest. That is the commonality between the Revels and the Focals with much the same reaction in both cases. The sound similarity is quite striking between them, though I heard them in a different place. I do recall more sibilance from the Focals, where that isn't really the issue here.

That 1st sentence in the 2nd paragraph in the 2nd quote about the next Performa line being more on the level of Ultima in a few years was pretty prophetic, huh?

I hinted at getting the NHT Xd system recently in this post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 65 Electra Glide View Post

However, I did finally hear the NHT Xd system not too long ago in the same room with Revel's flagships, and I feel they are definitely at least on par with Revel Ultimas, even besting the Ultimas in at least some aspects. Last I looked, NHT still had a few Xd sets on their website for $3000 with free shipping IIRC, and I'm thinking seriously about pulling the trigger as I don't believe $3K could possibly buy any better sound. Throw in the fact that the amps, stands, speaker wire & sub cables are included in that price, and it seems like a no-brainer.

... and when they were recently an additional 20% off of that along with free shipping of 7 big boxes, I just had to pull the trigger.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwally View Post

... but I think I made the right choice for my preferences.

You did!
Edited by 65 Electra Glide - 6/10/13 at 2:21pm
post #4208 of 6788
I would especially agree with Alimental's first paragraph about the Studios.
I heard the xD and read about it when it first came out.
Impressive system and a true speaker system.
While I'm sure his comments about why his shop couldn't sell them is accurate, I don't think the main reason why these weren't huge hits is because the price\performance factor was too high.

To me there were 3 things about the Xd's that would make buyers wary.
1. While it seems silly today, the concept was too new for a lot of buyers back then.
IME, most audiophiles are very wary of new technologies that are outside their comfort zone.
2. Esthetics. To me the system was not visually appealing. Yes I know it's sound that matters but to most buyers looks are right up there. The set I heard were like burgundy and yellowish\parchment. Not appealing to me.
3. AFAIR, you had to buy the whole system amp and everything and the amps were digital which goes back to whole audiophile acceptance thing.

I remember the Xds sounding very good but perhaps wishing they had used a larger mid-woof. I don't remember the size but they seemed a bit small.
See, there's the nit-picks of accepting something "new".

A question I would have moving forward with these is what kind of support for drivers etc., is there?
post #4209 of 6788
Quote:
Originally Posted by 65 Electra Glide View Post


A dual sub complete NHT Xd system, if not the last one they had, certainly one of the last sets.

Cool. I love the way those look and they certainly impressed Stereophile. Nice pick.
post #4210 of 6788
I have had my M106 speakers for about two months and love them. Incredible performance for their size. I am driving them with a Conrad Johnson Classic 2 SE preamp and McCormack DNA 125 amp, along with a REL R305 sub . This system sounds so good I am at a point where I am afraid to make any further changes. I can finally enjoy the music and stop being analytical about the hardware. These speakers sound life-like and natural and are amazingly clear. The fit and finish is top notch, I have them in walnut and they are beautiful. pictures do not do them justice. If you are looking for small speakers these are a MUST audition.
post #4211 of 6788
Congrats Steve.
Enjoying the music is what it's all about.
Nice system ya got there.
post #4212 of 6788
Just to let you guys know I was the system engineer for the Performa3 line and I do read this thread. Our loudspeaker engineering team at Harman is among the best in the business!.


,
post #4213 of 6788
Quote:
Originally Posted by revelman View Post

Just to let you guys know I was the system engineer for the Performa3 line and I do read this thread. Our loudspeaker engineering team at Harman is among the best in the business!.


,



Glad to hear your on this thread smile.gif
We're here because we feel you ARE the best in the business biggrin.gif
post #4214 of 6788
Nice to meet you revelman. Maybe you would answer a question?

With the Revel F208's tweeter sitting at a fairly high 44" above my floor, and my ears, when seated in my favorite chair, are at only 35", I have to ask, what is the optimum listening height in the opinion of the Performa3's system engineer?

Note: I'm not hearing a lot of change in sound when try different height.
post #4215 of 6788
Quote:
Originally Posted by revelman View Post

Just to let you guys know I was the system engineer for the Performa3 line and I do read this thread. Our loudspeaker engineering team at Harman is among the best in the business!

So if Kevin Voecks is the chief engineer, what is your function as the system engineer?

And yes, if I were to do it all over again, I would just get five Salon2 and not buy any other speakers. biggrin.gif
post #4216 of 6788
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by revelman View Post

Just to let you guys know I was the system engineer for the Performa3 line and I do read this thread. Our loudspeaker engineering team at Harman is among the best in the business!

So if Kevin Voecks is the chief engineer, what is your function as the system engineer?

I saw this just recently: http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?12290-Revel-Ultima2-Series&p=193295#post193295
It was posted by Greg Timbers, Chief Development Engineer at Harman.

Quote:

"Revel product, specifically the Ultima original and current new models are and always have been designed by Mark Glazer. He began life with Infinity and moved to Revel shortly after it started up. Kevin is Director of Marketing and is involved with final voicing decisions and many other aspects of the product definition, but the acoustic engineering is done solely by Mark."

Thanks for checking in on us, revelman. Seems you knocked another one out of the park. smile.gif
Edited by bigwally - 6/12/13 at 1:12pm
post #4217 of 6788
Harri009 got this RF of the F208 from Revel, so I thought I'd pass it along:

post #4218 of 6788
In case anyone is looking for a killer deal on some Halo amps.Check out videogon and click on amps.
post #4219 of 6788
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

Harri009 got this RF of the F208 from Revel, so I thought I'd pass it along:

Thank you, looks great. It looks like 40-45Hz might be a good point to start rolling in my subwoofers.
post #4220 of 6788
Quote:
Originally Posted by denydog View Post

Nice to meet you revelman. Maybe you would answer a question?

With the Revel F208's tweeter sitting at a fairly high 44" above my floor, and my ears, when seated in my favorite chair, are at only 35", I have to ask, what is the optimum listening height in the opinion of the Performa3's system engineer?

Note: I'm not hearing a lot of change in sound when try different height.

If you are at least 6 feet away from the F208's, you are well within the optimum listening window.
post #4221 of 6788
ok revelman,
a friendly question.
The Performa3s have been touted as Ultima2 killers.
What say you?
post #4222 of 6788
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post

I would especially agree with Alimental's first paragraph about the Studios.
I heard the xD and read about it when it first came out.
Impressive system and a true speaker system.
While I'm sure his comments about why his shop couldn't sell them is accurate, I don't think the main reason why these weren't huge hits is because the price\performance factor was too high.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you wrote here as them being priced too high for the performance they offered, but I interpreted what he wrote as saying the exact opposite of that - that they were priced too low.
Quote:
To me there were 3 things about the Xd's that would make buyers wary.
1. While it seems silly today, the concept was too new for a lot of buyers back then.
IME, most audiophiles are very wary of new technologies that are outside their comfort zone.
2. Esthetics. To me the system was not visually appealing. Yes I know it's sound that matters but to most buyers looks are right up there. The set I heard were like burgundy and yellowish\parchment. Not appealing to me.
3. AFAIR, you had to buy the whole system amp and everything and the amps were digital which goes back to whole audiophile acceptance thing.

I remember the Xds sounding very good but perhaps wishing they had used a larger mid-woof. I don't remember the size but they seemed a bit small.
See, there's the nit-picks of accepting something "new".

A question I would have moving forward with these is what kind of support for drivers etc., is there?

5 year warranty on the speakers themselves, 3 years on electronics IIRC.
post #4223 of 6788
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwally View Post

Cool. I love the way those look and they certainly impressed Stereophile. Nice pick.

Thanks. I liked they way they look too after I actually saw them in person. At first, I thought they were ugly just based on the pics, but I think their two-tone maple & burgundy finish is absolutely gorgeous.

I couldn't understand a few years ago why Revel discontinued the two-tone maple & black finish they had on the M22s. C32, etc. It was beautiful IMO.
post #4224 of 6788
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

That's kind of surprising, although I haven't heard the Performa3 line by all accounts they sound amazing. I have quite a few questions I hope you don't mind. Where did you hear them? We're they set up correctly? What kind of amp and power rating were going into them? What didn't you like about them? I have the F52's but opted not to pay the price for the C52, I bought a JBL PC600 instead.

You arguably got a better center speaker than the C52 with the PC600, but how do they match tonally with the F52s? I'm guessing they match pretty good?
post #4225 of 6788
Quote:
Originally Posted by 65 Electra Glide View Post

Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you wrote here as them being priced too high for the performance they offered, but I interpreted what he wrote as saying the exact opposite of that - that they were priced too low.
5 year warranty on the speakers themselves, 3 years on electronics IIRC.
I agree, they were not priced high as Alimental stated, I disagree with his take that people didn't buy them simply because they were priced too low.
I'm not saying he is wrong because I'm sure he knows what went on in his shop.
I'm saying that comments from people I knew and myself and from the shop-owner who carried them told a different story.
post #4226 of 6788
Quote:
Originally Posted by 65 Electra Glide View Post

You arguably got a better center speaker than the C52 with the PC600, but how do they match tonally with the F52s? I'm guessing they match pretty good?



I think it matches really well. The different tweeter bothered me when I was looking. The JBL shares it's 4" speaker with the Salon2, and that's what sold me on it. That and a fellow AVS member and it was only a year old and $445 off of eBay. I just upgraded my pre/pro also and my HT budget was getting a little thin biggrin.gif
post #4227 of 6788
All good reasons comfy.
My opinion only, but a non-matching tweet is not nearly as important as the mid for getting a coherent sound.
Sounds to me like you got a steal.
post #4228 of 6788
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post

All good reasons comfy.
My opinion only, but a non-matching tweet is not nearly as important as the mid for getting a coherent sound.
Sounds to me like you got a steal.



Thanks Milt, I was very worried the center wouldn't match but a fellow AVS member told me he has both the JBL performance series and Revel's in his setup and advised me to get it and don't look back. It is a great center and my SACD's and movies have never sounded so good. And the black ash finish matches my 52's perfectly. The grill cover is a little off though.
post #4229 of 6788
Tracking says my F208s are currently tearing through Missouri in a Fedex truck on their way to me. Can anyone tell me if they accept banana connectors? The manual doesn't say and I can't tell for sure from the photos. I bought some fat carpet boas recently for appearance sake and I need to get cracking if I need to re-terminate them.

I'm surprised they're being delivered in one week all the way from CA to OH. I guess Harman is caught up. If anyone is on the fence about these over price, Google up D-Sonic and send an email to Dennis. He builds amplifiers and stuff but is an authorized Revel dealer as well. Once I saw his prices I couldn't shovel my money through the internet fast enough. No affiliation, I just saw him mentioned several pages back in this thread and called because I don't have a Revel dealer in my town. I actually wondered a little if this was too good to be true, but it's happening. Tracking says it's 175 pounds of sweet Revelness.
post #4230 of 6788
I don't have F208s but I would be stunned if terminals don't take banana plugs.
My Studio2s do and they're an older model.
Edited by Milt99 - 6/14/13 at 6:58pm
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