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Revel Owners Thread - Page 144

post #4291 of 6805
Picked up a C12 for $250 and a pair of S12's for $300 (plus taxes and shipping)... Brand new! Looking forward to pairing them with my Infinity Primus P363's (cannot afford the F12's yet). I think I did well, considering this stuff is HARD to find in Canada.
post #4292 of 6805
I noticed the Concerta's are rated as 6 ohm speakers as well, will my Denon AVR-891 be good enough for them? Separates is a distant dream right now frown.gif
post #4293 of 6805
Quote:
Originally Posted by skinnydoggy View Post

I noticed the Concerta's are rated as 6 ohm speakers as well, will my Denon AVR-891 be good enough for them? Separates is a distant dream right now frown.gif



I ran an older Denon AVR for awhile with my PSB gold and they were rated at 4 ohms. I doubt you'll have a problem. Keep an eye on the temperature AVR's run warmer IMO.
post #4294 of 6805
Quote:
Originally Posted by lsdec View Post

Are you running those dual SVS subs w your F208's? If so, how do you have it crossed over? And which model is it?

Isdec,
Just sharing my Sub related plan and info and of course will be interested to hear from Bigwally..

I am going to use Submersive and I will set the cross over to 80 hz, which seems to me to be a sort of more conventional practice.
post #4295 of 6805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gugu_s View Post

Great pics BW, this F208 looks like a Monster, too wide to my taste.., smile.gif I hope you will enjoy it.

Prosoft, please post your opinion when you receive them,on how the F52 compare to the F206, because I'm torn between these two speakers, and another opinion would help to make a decision.

Thanks in advance,

Sure I will Guru_s. Waiting for the big guys to arrive and knock my door:).
I have a change of mind and will not reschedule to receive the speakers, will allow to deliver those on 25th June. Decided to work from home to sign and accept the consignment, just for the heck of it ...
Edited by Prosoft7 - 6/24/13 at 1:32pm
post #4296 of 6805
Quote:
Originally Posted by lsdec View Post

Are you running those dual SVS subs w your F208's? If so, how do you have it crossed over? And which model is it?

The subs are SVS SB12-NSDs and they're in stereo off the preamp. The Revels are running full range and at the moment the sub crossovers are set at 45Hz just to assist the bottom octave. I haven't taken any measurements and will probably mess around with it more later, but for now as long as it sounds good I'm not worried.
post #4297 of 6805
I have the PB-12 NSD, love it! Best purchase so far!
post #4298 of 6805
Quote:
Originally Posted by skinnydoggy View Post

I have the PB-12 NSD, love it! Best purchase so far!

Those guys make good stuff. I have two of their early 16-46 CS subs in my HT system and they're going strong after what must be thirteen or fourteen years now. Tom "The Subhuman" Vodhanel isn't there anymore though. Someone must have made him an offer he couldn't refuse.
post #4299 of 6805
Quote:
Originally Posted by skinnydoggy View Post

I noticed the Concerta's are rated as 6 ohm speakers as well, will my Denon AVR-891 be good enough for them? Separates is a distant dream right now frown.gif

I run F12/C12/M12 crossed over at 80Hz to the subwoofer off of an Integra DTR-7.8 (a.k.a. Onkyo TX-SR805), never had a problem. If you are running your speakers crossed over to a sub, that's even less of a load on your receiver. As comfynumb said, just check the AVR from time to time and see if it's running too warm...but I doubt as well that you'll have any problems.
post #4300 of 6805
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwally View Post

The subs are SVS SB12-NSDs and they're in stereo off the preamp. The Revels are running full range and at the moment the sub crossovers are set at 45Hz just to assist the bottom octave. I haven't taken any measurements and will probably mess around with it more later, but for now as long as it sounds good I'm not worried.

That sounds good and yes their subs are nice. I have one SVS SB13-plus and crossed it over at 80 hz - low pass from the pre amp / DAC. Then the high pass from the sub is at 31 hz.

I do like it much better with the sub helping the bottom octave that the F208s cannot reproduce.
post #4301 of 6805
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwally View Post

Those guys make good stuff. I have two of their early 16-46 CS subs in my HT system and they're going strong after what must be thirteen or fourteen years now. Tom "The Subhuman" Vodhanel isn't there anymore though. Someone must have made him an offer he couldn't refuse.

I think he went to form his own company - Power Sound Audio - after the non-compete period expired. The non-compete period is just my guess but there was some time that passed after SVS and before Power Sound Audio formed.

They look like great subs but I need balanced connectors and only the top of the line Triax offers that.
post #4302 of 6805
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwally View Post

I never thought I could live with an aluminum dome tweeter so I always went with silk domes, or my favorite, dual concentric ring silk tweeters. Turns out I can love an aluminum dome tweeter. The waveguide is the difference from what I can tell. No strident and beamy dome tip distortion audible and I've pushed them fairly hard. I'm running the tweeter at +0.5. I noticed this Revel waveguide difference when I A/B'ed a pair of Nautilus 802s against a pair of Revels fifteen years ago, when I couldn't dream of affording either.

My understanding is that dome tweeters when pushed hard expand from the pressure and the tip starts moving in the opposite direction from the rest of the dome, which can sound harsh. Silk domes do this as well, but since the material is soft the resultant sound is more euphonic. My best guess is that Revel's waveguide blocks dome tip distortion and moves it to peripheral inaudibility while splaying clean tweeter output to match the midrange driver's dispersion pattern.

That's my layman view, but I'm open to a better explanation of why I like these metal dome tweeters so much. It's certainly not that they're merely stepped down.

Here's an excellent article on edge diffraction and the function of a wave guide:
http://www.salksound.com/wp/?p=160
post #4303 of 6805
Quote:
Originally Posted by lsdec View Post

I think he went to form his own company - Power Sound Audio - after the non-compete period expired. The non-compete period is just my guess but there was some time that passed after SVS and before Power Sound Audio formed.

They look like great subs but I need balanced connectors and only the top of the line Triax offers that.



I was going to go with a set of passive subs but I'm looking into a pair of the PSA's. Their dual 15" sub looks pretty interesting.
post #4304 of 6805
bigwally, gugu_s, I am in limbo - high and dry! My F208s arrived via UPS, but the boxes were severely damaged, almost destroyed!!!
Speaker were damaged/dinged of course ...
I wasn't home while they delivered - another family member was. Now, in the process of sending those back and talking with another dealer to get a pair asap.
But the experience isn't pretty, high stress, high involvement of physical work (unboxing and now again reboxing of almost 90 Ibs speakers in shredded boxes), money is blocked with the seller for over 3 weeks!
Hoping to get over and soon get those in good health.
post #4305 of 6805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prosoft7 View Post

bigwally, gugu_s, I am in limbo - high and dry! My F208s arrived via UPS, but the boxes were severely damaged, almost destroyed!!!
Speaker were damaged/dinged of course ...
I wasn't home while they delivered - another family member was. Now, in the process of sending those back and talking with another dealer to get a pair asap.
But the experience isn't pretty, high stress, high involvement of physical work (unboxing and now again reboxing of almost 90 Ibs speakers in shredded boxes), money is blocked with the seller for over 3 weeks!
Hoping to get over and soon get those in good health.

Very sorry to hear that. When my pair arrived via Fedex one of the boxes had been penetrated completely by what was probably a forklift, however the speaker inside miraculously escaped damage by the narrowest margin. You could actually see a mark on the thin foam which wraps the speaker inside the box, but the walnut veneer underneath was completely unharmed.

If I may ask, why are you talking to a second dealer rather than letting the original dealer correct the problem?
post #4306 of 6805
Prosoft,

I too would ask why the original dealer is not replacing these for you. I can tell you from personal experience that these replacement units are prioritized by Harman for same or next day shippig and have averaged 4 days shipping time. Did you purchase from a private party?

I have been told that Harman is currently in the process of beefing up their internal packaging for the Performa3 series. The external boxes are good, double wall, high quality board, They are currently strapping the pairs of boxed speakers to a single pallet, sleeving both boxes with additional double wall board and then heavy duty shrink wrapping the whole assembly, including pallet. I received a single F208 yesterday that was packaged the same way. All of the recent orders (last 6 weeks) have been protected in this manner with no damage at all, not even to the external shrink wrap. Attached is a photo of the packaged F208.

I would caution anyone currently buying from a private party to pass these concerns on to the seller. I believe the most labor/cost effective way to ship the individual boxes is to put them into another high quality, double wall box and shim them so they do not move around loosely inside the external boxes. I deal with FEDEX and UPS almost every day and believe from experience that shipping boxes of this size is their weakest operational procedure. The forklift drivers think they are matadors and your speaker box is the bull. Any shipping damage requires that the damage claim be initially filed by the receiver, you. Take photos of any damage starting with the exterior before you open the boxes. If you can see internal damage to the speaker from the outside, do not bother unpacking that box. UPS or FEDEX will come to pick them up after the claim is filed, usually within a few business days. Remember to add $160 (cost plus shipping) for a pair of new boxes if necessary. In some cases, they will allow the claim to be transferred to the seller/shipper. In this case, you can stop payment and let the seller settle the claim. Both UPS and FEDEX are generally quite fair in their settlements.

I hope you can get this settled soon.

PS: The image attachment is not working for me right now. I will send photos later when possible.
post #4307 of 6805
Had a similar issue, narrow misses... boxes had a bunch of holes, but the goods were okay. Lucky I guess. I hope everything works out for you.
post #4308 of 6805
Prosoft, I'm so sorry to hear about your troubles, I can imagine what you felt, when seeing them damaged for the first time. I hope your problems will be resolved quickly!
post #4309 of 6805
It sounds like UPS and FedEx need to cut done on their forklift incidents. Send the drivers to the optimist.
post #4310 of 6805
All of these forklift anecdotes make me wonder if John Holmes is working in the Harmon warehouse. Could somebody check on that?

Edit: I've just been informed that John Holmes passed away in 1988.
post #4311 of 6805
I'm sure exactly how to take that bw biggrin.gif but lmao!
post #4312 of 6805
Thanks to all for sharing thoughts and providing helpful tips for future ....
I waited to come back to post update since the UPS was scheduled to pick up my Speakers. I had to call them on Friday and discuss the situation. The UPS rep wanted to have pictures first for investigation. When I told him that I have already sent the picture to the seller, he proposed to send someone to inspect the damage. I hold my ground and told him the only acceptable option for me is to return these items, and I had a conversation to that regard with the seller anyway.
Long story short, they came today at 3.45pm and picked up. I left the boxes in front of my door. It was packed in the same shattered boxes. I intentionally didn't put any tape so they can see the extent of the damage.
The boxes wasn't looking pretty:(
However, I bought these from a Reseller, not a direct Dealer. The seller told me he doesn't have the speakers in stock/warehouse. I am guessing it's possible, since he orders these from Dealer(s).
I am in press for time and a bit impatient at this point of time. So, looked up another seller who is a authorize Dealer. He voluntarily propose to send the Speakers in crate instead of lightweight boxes. Planning to place the order tomorrow and hope to receive around Friday or next Monday.
Keeping my fingers crossed. etching to play these guys using my newly acquired Parasound 5250 amp. Ordered Kimber Kable 8VS speaker cables to replace Audioquest custom X2 14AWG cables. I know I might not see a dramatic difference by using 9AWG, but little things might add up. I am also replacing Audioquest Banana plug with Audioquest Silver Spade for all terminals (all speakers including Surrounds and Amp).

Will come back with my experience/comparison of driving these F208s using Parasound and Sunfire.
post #4313 of 6805
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwally View Post

Very sorry to hear that. When my pair arrived via Fedex one of the boxes had been penetrated completely by what was probably a forklift, however the speaker inside miraculously escaped damage by the narrowest margin. You could actually see a mark on the thin foam which wraps the speaker inside the box, but the walnut veneer underneath was completely unharmed.

If I may ask, why are you talking to a second dealer rather than letting the original dealer correct the problem?
Bigwally, it is primarily a timing issue, since this seller said he doesn't have F208s in stock and not sure how long it will take for him to get those. I simply can't wait indefinitely. Beside, the new seller is an authorized dealer, the previous one was a reseller.
post #4314 of 6805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prosoft7 View Post

Bigwally, it is primarily a timing issue, since this seller said he doesn't have F208s in stock and not sure how long it will take for him to get those. I simply can't wait indefinitely. Beside, the new seller is an authorized dealer, the previous one was a reseller.

What a bummer. Good luck, I hope things work out and sooner than later.

The pallet and shrink wrap mine were delivered on was a good thing, but I do hope all the boxes get the makeover dsonic talked about. The single boxes and inner styrofoam mine came in had no tensile strength and had they been dropped outside of the pallet and wrap, they'd have exploded in pieces like yours. One of my boxes was damaged from the forklift so I figured I'd just tape it up so I could store them in the basement in case of a future move, but they tore so easily I ended up just ripping them to pieces with my hands and putting them in my giant garbage can, so now I don't have boxes.

On the flip side, the Emotiva gear I've purchased comes in strong boxes inside of strong boxes with polyfoam inserts. It's packaging that'll last for a dozen moves or a dozen internet resales. Outlaw is the same way. The box my ancient Outlaw 750 HT amp came in has easily survived three cross-country moves and will outlive me, and both of those companies sell bargain gear.
post #4315 of 6805
So BW, how do you feel about your 208's after living with them for a bit?
Has the "new car smell" worn off? Or are you getting a better appreciation for them.
post #4316 of 6805
The F208s are great, Milt. Really, they're everything I hoped they'd be. I wasn't sure they'd top my Peerless/Vifa Frankenspeakers but they do, and by a good margin. Not sure I could have come closer on my own even if I did have an anechoic chamber with a Harmon-style rotisserie spinning my speakers like gyro meat or one of those Land Of Tomorrow speaker shuffler systems. They're invisible. Like listening to big Maggies you don't hear the speakers as much as you hear a holographic presentation of music in the room. All that, and with phenomenal cone and dome dynamics. When you get to be my age you start playing bull$h!t bingo when you read loudspeaker reviews because they all use the same language, even for speakers that I've found to be pedestrian at best, but that's how I see them.

I hauled my test discs around for so many months leading up to this to hear Magnepan, Martin Logan, KEF, Goldenear, Aerial, Focal, Vandersteen, I was a busy boy, but I took the chance on the F208s based upon reputation and how they looked on paper, and I'm done shopping for good. Not sure what I'm going to say if I run into my local audio salon owner who doesn't sell Revel. I'll probably just drop and fake a seizure. The only speakers I liked as much were two or three times as expensive. Bet you never heard that in a speaker review either, right?? Nevertheless, folks really should hear these if they're looking at cone and dome designs, even if the other apple of their eye costs a lot more.

One particular highlight was a recent evening where I fed them nothing but my most notable female vocal torture tracks at moderately high volume. That was a thing to behold. As an example, Joss Stone's voice on "All The King's Horses" gets ugly when pushed hard through more speakers I've heard than not, but it's just no big deal with these and they don't do it with recessed or veiled mids. It's all there, lively, present, and flat in response, but with every possibility of resonance perfectly controlled. I have a basement recording studio where I play drums and engineer recordings for a few local singer/songwriters, and these are going to come in handy for testing my work. I master with headphones, but these will be an excellent final judge of my work, for better or for worse.

I've always listened to music for an hour or three most days while reading, kind of switching back and forth, so it's nice to be going through my whole music collection again with a fresh angle. Seems like every day I hear something they do better than what I had, like a floor tom with more punch than I remembered or a vocal harmony wider than I thought possible. I mentioned something in an earlier post about being highly entertained by how they occasionally image to the sides of their physical placement, something I haven't heard too many speakers do in a compelling way, and I had some fun with that just earlier today. I was listening to an old Bread recording (for science purposes only of course) with my eyes closed and I started pointing to where some of the voices were coming from. At times the singer doing the harmony vocal is standing five or six feet to the left of the left speaker. I don't know why the F208s can do that when my old speakers couldn't, but it's a cool parlor trick and very addictive.
Edited by bigwally - 7/4/13 at 7:19am
post #4317 of 6805
Great to hear BW.
I've had my Revels for about 6 months and I am pleased as well.
To me, what sets these speakers apart is that they reveal what is upstream in my system and the recording.
Many speakers i've heard over the last years have what I call a ruthless quality about them.
On the really good recordings they sound fine but on many recordings they seem to portray more of the bad than the good.
I would describe Revel speakers as honest.
post #4318 of 6805
The Revels are honest but they're not jerks about it. Instead of, "Hey, you need to lose some weight" they're more like, "You look healthy, will you show me some recipes?" I'm no fan of harsh, forward, strident speakers and as I mentioned before, the metal dome tweeters struck fear in my heart, but I think they nailed the balance between accurate and comfortably euphonic. My worst recordings sound as good as they can without excessive bite and the best ones are extracted with aplomb.
post #4319 of 6805
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwally View Post

The Revels are honest but they're not jerks about it. Instead of, "Hey, you need to lose some weight" they're more like, "You look healthy, will you show me some recipes?" I'm no fan of harsh, forward, strident speakers and as I mentioned before, the metal dome tweeters struck fear in my heart, but I think they nailed the balance between accurate and comfortably euphonic. My worst recordings sound as good as they can without excessive bite and the best ones are extracted with aplomb.
Nicely stated.
In the process of going through some long unlistened to discs, I've been blown away by some old recordings\discs that sound sooo real.
FWIW, my 2 channel system is Oppo-105, Anthem D2, Emotive XPA-1Ls, Studio2s, Liberty Ohno xlr interconnects, Bluejeans 9 AWG bare-ass speaker cables.
Edited by Milt99 - 7/3/13 at 9:16pm
post #4320 of 6805
I like those Emotiva monoblocks you're using. Seems I'm becoming a bigger fan of Emotiva stuff by the minute. I already had a XPA-2 amp but I added an XSP-1 stereo preamp yesterday and that thing's amazing. I'm not one to find meaningful differences in sound between competently designed SS components, particularly compared to who engineered and produced the music I'm hearing, what mikes they used and so forth, but the functionality of this thing is amazing and the sound is as the impressive specs would suggest. The HF and LF trim feature makes up for non-linear cartridges in my collection and helps with sketchy pressings well enough for me to ditch the clunky EQ I'd been using for vinyl, and the stereo subwoofer outputs w/bass management are just what the doctor ordered. At the risk of sounding even more heretical I don't see too big a deal with balanced architecture outside of a studio where 50 ft runs are common, but it's nice to see nonetheless.

I met Dan Laufman many years ago through an industry friend when Emotiva was going through tough growing pains, but he's really hit his stride. Super nice guy, the kind you want to see do well for himself and his team.
Edited by bigwally - 7/4/13 at 5:00am
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