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Revel Owners Thread - Page 145

post #4321 of 6919
Perfect description of the Revel's Milt and BW, honest but not jerks about it, nice smile.gif
I didn't realize you only had your Studios around 6 months Milt. What speakers were you using before them?
post #4322 of 6919
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwally View Post

I like those Emotiva monoblocks you're using. Seems I'm becoming a bigger fan of Emotiva stuff by the minute. I already had a XPA-2 amp but I added an XSP-1 stereo preamp yesterday and that thing's amazing. I'm not one to find meaningful differences in sound between competently designed SS components, particularly compared to who engineered and produced the music I'm hearing, what mikes they used and so forth, but the functionality of this thing is amazing and the sound is as the impressive specs would suggest. The HF and LF trim feature makes up for non-linear cartridges in my collection and helps with sketchy pressings well enough for me to ditch the clunky EQ I'd been using for vinyl, and the stereo subwoofer outputs w/bass management are just what the doctor ordered. At the risk of sounding even more heretical I don't see too big a deal with balanced architecture outside of a studio where 50 ft runs are common, but it's nice to see nonetheless.

I met Dan Laufman many years ago through an industry friend when Emotiva was going through tough growing pains, but he's really hit his stride. Super nice guy, the kind you want to see do well for himself and his team.

I'm going to a friend's place this weekend who just switched out an all Halo electronics set for an all Emotiva set.
3 XPR-1s, the new XPA-2 and an XSP-1, yee Gods I hope it doesn't melt the romex.
He has both digital and TT sources.

That's not heretical at all. I know I can't tell any sonic difference between RCA and XLR. I went with XLR for a couple reasons.
All my gear has balanced in\outs, I got those really nice interconnects for dirt cheap and I'm placing my Oppo and Anthem in one part of the room with the amps near the speakers.
Long interconnects, short speaker cables and nothing in between the speakers. Voila smile.gif

Comfy, I had a pair of Dali Helicon 800s I bought from a friend.
Had 'em for less than 3 months before the whole system was ripped-off.
God bless replacement cost insurance.
post #4323 of 6919
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post

I'm going to a friend's place this weekend who just switched out an all Halo electronics set for an all Emotiva set.
3 XPR-1s, the new XPA-2 and an XSP-1, yee Gods I hope it doesn't melt the romex.
He has both digital and TT sources.

That's not heretical at all. I know I can't tell any sonic difference between RCA and XLR. I went with XLR for a couple reasons.
All my gear has balanced in\outs, I got those really nice interconnects for dirt cheap and I'm placing my Oppo and Anthem in one part of the room with the amps near the speakers.
Long interconnects, short speaker cables and nothing in between the speakers. Voila smile.gif

Comfy, I had a pair of Dali Helicon 800s I bought from a friend.
Had 'em for less than 3 months before the whole system was ripped-off.
God bless replacement cost insurance.



I'm interested in your friends thoughts after his amp changes. I remember you saying your system was ripped off but I didn't realize it was so recent. Nothing worse than a thief. Those Dali's are a great looking speaker. Do I see two tweeters on them, possibly a ribbon?
Edited by comfynumb - 7/4/13 at 11:53am
post #4324 of 6919
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post

I'm going to a friend's place this weekend who just switched out an all Halo electronics set for an all Emotiva set.

And when you're there, tell your friend there's a guy on AVS who wants to know why on earth would anybody want to change from Parasound Halo to Emotiva? eek.gif
post #4325 of 6919
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

I'm interested in your friends thoughts after his amp changes. I remember you saying your system was ripped off but I didn't realize it was so recent. Nothing worse than a thief. Those Dali's are a great looking speaker. Do I see two tweeters on them, possibly a ribbon?
The Helicons have a hybrid soft dome and ribbon tweeter configuration.
They are\were really nice speakers but I like the Studio2s better but the Revels are a lot more money.
post #4326 of 6919
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

And when you're there, tell your friend there's a guy on AVS who wants to know why on earth would anybody want to change from Parasound Halo to Emotiva? eek.gif
Hey ADTG, aren't you the one that's always talking about how it's a waste of money to buy uber expensive amps?
Yes you are the very same wink.gif
The guy had 2 JC-1s and the A31 plus the top end pre-amp.
I heard that system as well. Very nice.

I think Emotiva amps are a steal. So far very happy with mine.
If I hadn't wanted the smaller form factor I probably would have gone with one of their monster 2 channel like the XPA-2, which was just refreshed.
I don't think the design has changed, they just upgraded the parts.
I don't think my little monoblocs are really lacking in the power category though.
post #4327 of 6919
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post

Hey ADTG, aren't you the one that's always talking about how it's a waste of money to buy uber expensive amps?

No. I think they all sound great. But if I ALREADY own HALO, there's no way in heck I would get RID of them to buy EMO. eek.gif
post #4328 of 6919
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post

Great to hear BW.
I've had my Revels for about 6 months and I am pleased as well.
To me, what sets these speakers apart is that they reveal what is upstream in my system and the recording.
Many speakers i've heard over the last years have what I call a ruthless quality about them.
On the really good recordings they sound fine but on many recordings they seem to portray more of the bad than the good.
I would describe Revel speakers as honest.
I would concur. I felt the Studio2s were a bit more forgiving than the 205/2s but if the recording is not good save it for the IPod or another system.
post #4329 of 6919
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

No. I think they all sound great. But if I ALREADY own HALO, there's no way in heck I would get RID of them to buy EMO. eek.gif
That's fine.
But believe me this guy knows what he's doing.
I'll definitely post my impressions after I visit.
Of course there's no way to do an A\B with the previous gear but I'll be able to relate how the current system sounds and I'm pretty sure it will be impressive to say the least.
post #4330 of 6919
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post

That's fine.
But believe me this guy knows what he's doing.
I'll definitely post my impressions after I visit.
Of course there's no way to do an A\B with the previous gear but I'll be able to relate how the current system sounds and I'm pretty sure it will be impressive to say the least.

Sure sounds like it. He is going with monster monoblocks across his front three while its on sale for less than $3900. I am surprised he didn't go with the XPR-2 for the surrounds though. But I would take that setup anyday.
post #4331 of 6919
The XPA-2 is just for the surrounds.
Certainly overkill in any book.
According to people in the know, the XPA series or at least some of them have gotten a parts refresh with higher quality parts and a new fascia\case.
I could be wrong but i'm pretty certain the refreshed units have not gone on retail sale yet.
I'm guessing the XPA will more closely resemble the XPR amps but I won't know until Sunday.
post #4332 of 6919
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post

The XPA-2 is just for the surrounds.
Certainly overkill in any book.
According to people in the know, the XPA series or at least some of them have gotten a parts refresh with higher quality parts and a new fascia\case.
I could be wrong but i'm pretty certain the refreshed units have not gone on retail sale yet.
I'm guessing the XPA will more closely resemble the XPR amps but I won't know until Sunday.



It will be a good time and certainly there won't be any alcohol related beverages involved biggrin.gif
Have a good time Milt.
post #4333 of 6919
Has anyone ever ran into unmatched sets of revel's? In my case I have Studio 2's purchased on Audiogon with serial numbers ending in 27 and 30, all preceding numbers being the same. When I inquired about this the seller told me that because they tweak each speaker to a single reference that having a sequential pair doesn't matter. I have never seen this before and it seems fishy to me. Any input appreciated. Thanks!
post #4334 of 6919
Why does this make you suspicious?
Mine are not sequential.
I bought them from an authorized dealer.
What the seller said is true and well-known in that the speakers are tested against a reference unit and not to sequential pairs to each other.
I'm not sure anyone would do that anyway.
I'm not trying to dismiss your concerns but what do you think the seller did, find one speaker in Florida and another one in Anchorage?
If you are concerned you could call Revel customer support and ask them directly about their policies regarding how they allocate speaker pairs when shipped.
Edited by Milt99 - 7/5/13 at 6:42pm
post #4335 of 6919
Quote:
Originally Posted by nile49 View Post

Has anyone ever ran into unmatched sets of revel's? In my case I have Studio 2's purchased on Audiogon with serial numbers ending in 27 and 30, all preceding numbers being the same. When I inquired about this the seller told me that because they tweak each speaker to a single reference that having a sequential pair doesn't matter. I have never seen this before and it seems fishy to me. Any input appreciated. Thanks!

I have new M106 and they are serial number 00001 and 00029, so as long as they do match to their reference that's OK.
post #4336 of 6919
Thanks for the input and I did end up finding some more discussion about this about 2000 comments back. I am glad to hear that this is not unusual (for Revel). Out of general interest I will probably follow up with Revel about their policies as well and will post what I find out. My concerns stem from the fact that I do not recall ever seeing unmatched sets of high end speakers previously in my 5 years or so in this hobby. For instance typically if a tweeter is damaged in one speaker of a stereo pair they both end up getting replaced because many believe in having matched sets of drivers. Also the reviews I have read regarding the Ultima's have been of sequential pairs of speakers. All in all I was just looking for reassurance that a matched set is not needed, because for many brands I think it is an important aspect. Being that Revel moved their production to Mexico I thought that maybe this was a detail overlooked at the current facility or that an anomalous mix up may have occurred.

Thanks again!
post #4337 of 6919
The only reason I'd have for concern over a non-sequential pair is if the veneers were bookmatched. Otherwise it wouldn't blip my radar.
post #4338 of 6919
good point....my PSB Platinums were bookmatched and seq. serialed
post #4339 of 6919
Any chance one of the folks on the design team, or anyone with the secret speaker designer handshake, might explain why the aluminum dome tweeter on the Performa3 sounds detailed, yet sweet? I made a layman guess on this post earlier in the thread but I have no actual idea what I'm talking about.

Once I experienced the dual concentric ring fabric tweeters I've been using for years I swore I'd have no other, but I like these metal domes even more for their added airiness sans harshness, despite having found even the best metal dome tweeters a tough long term proposition in the past.

I think the Revel waveguide has something to do with it, but I also suspect that's more for adding to the dispersion properties that make the Performa3s throw hard-panned L/R images outside of the boxes on well engineered recordings.

Thanks in advance.
post #4340 of 6919
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwally View Post

Any chance one of the folks on the design team, or anyone with the secret speaker designer handshake, might explain why the aluminum dome tweeter on the Performa3 sounds detailed, yet sweet? I made a layman guess on this post earlier in the thread but I have no actual idea what I'm talking about.

Once I experienced the dual concentric ring fabric tweeters I've been using for years I swore I'd have no other, but I like these metal domes even more for their added airiness sans harshness, despite having found even the best metal dome tweeters a tough long term proposition in the past.

I think the Revel waveguide has something to do with it, but I also suspect that's more for adding to the dispersion properties that make the Performa3s throw hard-panned L/R images outside of the boxes on well engineered recordings.

Thanks in advance.



It's all in the waveguide wink.gif and although have not heard any other Revels except my own I suspect part of the "Revel sound" is just throwing a huge soundstage and the increased highs. I have to admit the highs are pretty spectacular on my 52's, I was so used to my PSB golds that when I switched myself and my gf were like there is way too much in the treble department, now I just think wow.
Edited by comfynumb - 7/7/13 at 9:32am
post #4341 of 6919
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post

The XPA-2 is just for the surrounds.
Certainly overkill in any book.
According to people in the know, the XPA series or at least some of them have gotten a parts refresh with higher quality parts and a new fascia\case.
I could be wrong but i'm pretty certain the refreshed units have not gone on retail sale yet.
I'm guessing the XPA will more closely resemble the XPR amps but I won't know until Sunday.

The overhaul of the XPA amps seems to be 29dB gain vs the present 32dB gain, a different case with rolled over top and bottom pieces on the edges, a higher threshold of class "A" operation, a different fascia with black swappable end pieces standard while silver ones will be included with each unit, and stronger Tiffany style RCA jacks on the back. Not a bad upgrade, but nothing that should make a present XPA owner feel neglected, IMO.
post #4342 of 6919
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

It's all in the waveguide wink.gif and although have not heard any other Revels except my own I suspect part of the "Revel sound" is just throwing a huge soundstage and the increases highs. I have to admit the highs are pretty spectacular on my 52's, I was so used to my PSB golds that when I switched myself and my gf were like there is way too much in the treble department, now I just think wow.

The waveguide may be unholy sorcery. Employing a midrange driver without the decency of a proper phase plug, using an aluminum dome tweeter... who even does that anymore? These speakers have been a strong lesson in that it's not what you use, it's how you use it. I hope my girlfriend sees this.
post #4343 of 6919
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwally View Post

The overhaul of the XPA amps seems to be 29dB gain vs the present 32dB gain, a different case with rolled over top and bottom pieces on the edges, a higher threshold of class "A" operation, a different fascia with black swappable end pieces standard while silver ones will be included with each unit, and stronger Tiffany style RCA jacks on the back. Not a bad upgrade, but nothing that should make a present XPA owner feel neglected, IMO.
Positive moves! The RCA connectors were not the greatest and gain move is good also. More class A bias should be good, wonder how much and heat load changes due to that.
post #4344 of 6919
Quote:
Originally Posted by nile49 View Post

*** For instance typically if a tweeter is damaged in one speaker of a stereo pair they both end up getting replaced because many believe in having matched sets of drivers.***

That's a slightly different issue. Well, two issues.

The first is that dealers/mfg's convincing customers to buy tweeters in pairs streamlines their parts orders, because they're accustomed to selling speakers in pairs. smile.gif
(Related, the price for factory replacement parts is often very high. I know of one case where a bog standard part number from a Scandinavian driver maker was 3x higher as an OEM driver, compared to from Madisound. Revel presumably has also pricing power because their market for replacement parts is exclusive. I'd be surprised if the Sinar Baja cone drivers in the Performas are off-the-peg parts. I don't know or particularly care who made the tweeter in them, but I suspect it has a Revel-specific part number too.)

The second issue is that parts may have running changes over time, so the "OEM replacement" may in fact be different in some way from the originally-included part. (Degradation is often cited here, but for competently designed drivers should be not an issue unless they're decades old.)
post #4345 of 6919
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwally View Post

The overhaul of the XPA amps seems to be 29dB gain vs the present 32dB gain, a different case with rolled over top and bottom pieces on the edges, a higher threshold of class "A" operation, a different fascia with black swappable end pieces standard while silver ones will be included with each unit, and stronger Tiffany style RCA jacks on the back. Not a bad upgrade, but nothing that should make a present XPA owner feel neglected, IMO.

Is there somewhere where we can read more about these changes ?

- Rich
post #4346 of 6919
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwally View Post

The waveguide may be unholy sorcery. Employing a midrange driver without the decency of a proper phase plug, using an aluminum dome tweeter... who even does that anymore? These speakers have been a strong lesson in that it's not what you use, it's how you use it. I hope my girlfriend sees this.



And you can't argue with the sound quality. Is the reason for cost effectiveness? At the 5-7k range you would think that if they thought a "better" tweeter would help that they would use it. I think the waveguide coupled with a high quality dome tweeter is not easy to beat. That's what the Ultima line is for biggrin.gif
I read about the waveguide and its proven technology not just a 50 cent piece of plastic. MyJBL PC600 center uses the exact same waveguide on an titanium domed tweeter.
Edited by comfynumb - 7/7/13 at 10:26am
post #4347 of 6919
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Quote:

Is there somewhere where we can read more about these changes ?

- Rich

I got that from the Emotiva forums.
post #4348 of 6919
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwally View Post

I got that from the Emotiva forums.

Thanks, perhaps I will wander over wink.gif

- Rich
post #4349 of 6919
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwally View Post

What a bummer. Good luck, I hope things work out and sooner than later.

The pallet and shrink wrap mine were delivered on was a good thing, but I do hope all the boxes get the makeover dsonic talked about. The single boxes and inner styrofoam mine came in had no tensile strength and had they been dropped outside of the pallet and wrap, they'd have exploded in pieces like yours. One of my boxes was damaged from the forklift so I figured I'd just tape it up so I could store them in the basement in case of a future move, but they tore so easily I ended up just ripping them to pieces with my hands and putting them in my giant garbage can, so now I don't have boxes.

On the flip side, the Emotiva gear I've purchased comes in strong boxes inside of strong boxes with polyfoam inserts. It's packaging that'll last for a dozen moves or a dozen internet resales. Outlaw is the same way. The box my ancient Outlaw 750 HT amp came in has easily survived three cross-country moves and will outlive me, and both of those companies sell bargain gear.
Quote:
FWIW, my Ultima Salon type one then type two were all overboxed by Revel, and delivered LTL. No damaga to either.
I sold the type ones and shipped them to washington state, (from florida) again, LTL, with no damage.
My recommendation is to consider a trucking outfit over Fed Ex or UPS. The handling is much better.
Walt
post #4350 of 6919
Quote:
Originally Posted by yacht422 View Post

Quote:
FWIW, my Ultima Salon type one then type two were all overboxed by Revel, and delivered LTL. No damaga to either.
I sold the type ones and shipped them to washington state, (from florida) again, LTL, with no damage.
My recommendation is to consider a trucking outfit over Fed Ex or UPS. The handling is much better.
Walt

When Revel uses Fedex and UPS they use their LTL (less than truckload) freight services rather than their parcel services.
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