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Revel Owners Thread - Page 169

post #5041 of 6806
I was thinking about mounting my center channel speaker on the wall, my only concern is that it would be approximately 2' from the front of my 52's. Probably not normally a concern and Audyssey would correct the distance perfect I'm sure, my only concern is the way the speaker is designed and I'm thinking I might get a greater reflection off the Revels. Am I worrying too much?




Edited by comfynumb - 10/5/13 at 5:42am
post #5042 of 6806
Quote:
Originally Posted by duc135 View Post

Take a listen to a good pair of headphones. You think the bass on those headphones are not punchy and tight?

Absolutely NOT.

There's NO bass from any headphones for me to consider punchy and tight.

As I've said, it depends on your DEFINITION of punchy and tight.

There is no UNIVERSAL definition.

To me, there is NO BASS from any headphone to begin with.

If it can't shake and rattle my walls and my bones like a rag doll, then it's NO bass at all in my book. biggrin.gif
post #5043 of 6806
^^^
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with either if you, I'm just lmao at your rag doll statement. Wait a minute! How did this go from tight and punchy bass to getting the s*** kicked out of you?
post #5044 of 6806
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlittlejeans View Post

Good points duc135. I've never understood why so much focus on AVS rests on sheer output of a subwoofer rather than on the sound quality of said subwoofer. As if the sub that can hit the highest SPL with some predetermined amount of THD is the best one out at the moment.

It's the same way with speakers.

As if the speakers that measure the best are the best?

So we can say the speakers that SOUND the best are the best even if they measure +/- 12dB from 200Hz-10kHz?

I'm fine with that either way.

But some people want some kind of "standard" for both speakers and subs.
Edited by AcuDefTechGuy - 10/5/13 at 7:20am
post #5045 of 6806
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

^^^
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with either if you, I'm just lmao at your rag doll statement. Wait a minute! How did this go from tight and punchy bass to getting the s*** kicked out of you?

I make a lot of people laugh too when I say that "rag doll" thing. biggrin.gif

Everyone has his own definition of "punchy". biggrin.gif

To me, "punchy" is like beating the crap out of that kick drum. eek.gif

And "tight" is just when the second you stop beating that kick drum senseless, the sound is dead silent.

So "tight" doesn't have anything to do with SPL. But "Punchy" is all about SPL.

To me "Punchy" is bass that scares the living daylights out of you and hits you like a sledgehammer and freight train from hell. eek.gif

And to me all so-called "bass" from the most expensive headphones is like girly wimpy "mid-bass" for soft classical music and elevator music, not punchy.
post #5046 of 6806
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

I make a lot of people laugh too when I say that "rag doll" thing. biggrin.gif

Everyone has his own definition of "punchy". biggrin.gif

To me, "punchy" is like beating the crap out of that kick drum. eek.gif

And "tight" is just when the second you stop beating that kick drum senseless, the sound is dead silent.

So "tight" doesn't have anything to do with SPL. But "Punchy" is all about SPL.

To me "Punchy" is bass that scares the living daylights out of you and hits you like a sledgehammer and freight train from hell. eek.gif

And to me all so-called "bass" from the most expensive headphones is like girly wimpy "mid-bass" for soft classical music and elevator music, not punchy.



Now I understand your definition. Personally I take pride in scaring the crap out of unsuspecting people, like cranking war of the worlds up to like -8 or higher and watching their reaction. I did this to my GF's son the other night, and I can't wait to add another sub and have him back over biggrin.gif
post #5047 of 6806
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Now I understand your definition. Personally I take pride in scaring the crap out of unsuspecting people, like cranking war of the worlds up to like -8 or higher and watching their reaction. I did this to my GF's son the other night, and I can't wait to add another sub and have him back over biggrin.gif

I'm the same way.

I want all my guests frightened and shaken like a rag doll. eek.gifbiggrin.gif

It starts out very girly and soft. Everything calm. Then BAM! eek.gif

That is DYNAMIC!
post #5048 of 6806
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

I'm the same way.

I want all my guests frightened and shaken like a rag doll. eek.gifbiggrin.gif

It starts out very girly and soft. Everything calm. Then BAM! eek.gif

That is DYNAMIC!



Priceless!
post #5049 of 6806
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Now I understand your definition. Personally I take pride in scaring the crap out of unsuspecting people, like cranking war of the worlds up to like -8 or higher and watching their reaction. I did this to my GF's son the other night, and I can't wait to add another sub and have him back over biggrin.gif

My reference for bass is the Creaking Pipes scene in The Haunting. I get deep bass from WOW but I would not call it tight or punchy. IMO that would not be accurate for the scenes that have deep bass. The sources or those sounds would be deep and low.
post #5050 of 6806
Quote:
Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post

My reference for bass is the Creaking Pipes scene in The Haunting. I get deep bass from WOW but I would not call it tight or punchy. IMO that would not be accurate for the scenes that have deep bass. The sources or those sounds would be deep and low.



There are a lot of good ones, I'll have to check that one out smile.gif
post #5051 of 6806
Agree with ADTG on this tight and punchy deal. To me both words imply how the system behaves when driven with transients with a high dynamic range in the freq band of interest....in this case 20 - 80Hz, roughly.

I would want its output to be linear with no compression, and I would want there to be no delay or ringing in the response, at any of those freqs. I'm not sure that harmonic distortion would contribute to a lack of punchiness and tightness, as it is not a time domain characteristic.
post #5052 of 6806
Okay, so I just got to listen to a ~$70K Wisdom Audio system ($50K in the front three wisdom). Very nice.!!! My friend is also a Harmon dealer and he has just got all the Performa3 series. Got to see a F208 but not listen. He was busy adding M105s as surrounds and surround backs to the Wisdom Audio with Lab Gruppen amps for the Revels. If you are in the Mobile, Pensacola, Fort Walton area you can PM me or just contact Revel if you would like to audition.. If so, I will try to listen also before they disappear. biggrin.gif
post #5053 of 6806
^^^

Great, please post your Impressions.

I will be visiting Natural Sound in the near future with my brother-in-law to listen to the F206, 208's, and the new B&Ws.
I'm going to try to setup a session with a BDP-105 directly connected to an amp. This is his setup.
The next best thing to home.

- Rich
post #5054 of 6806
Quote:
Originally Posted by jima4a View Post

Okay, so I just got to listen to a ~$70K Wisdom Audio system ($50K in the front three wisdom). Very nice.!!! My friend is also a Harmon dealer and he has just got all the Performa3 series. Got to see a F208 but not listen. He was busy adding M105s as surrounds and surround backs to the Wisdom Audio with Lab Gruppen amps for the Revels. If you are in the Mobile, Pensacola, Fort Walton area you can PM me or just contact Revel if you would like to audition.. If so, I will try to listen also before they disappear. biggrin.gif

A friend of mine is a dealer and he carries all these speakers, electronics, and more. And he was not impressed at all with the Wisdom speakers.

So everyone's perception is different. biggrin.gif
post #5055 of 6806
Speaking of expensive speakers.
The KEF Moons are amazing looking.


http://www.homechunk.com/3310/2012/09/04/most-expensive-speakers-for-uber-rich-audiophiles/
post #5056 of 6806
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

A friend of mine is a dealer and he carries all these speakers, electronics, and more. And he was not impressed at all with the Wisdom speakers.

So everyone's perception is different. biggrin.gif
To be honest I just had a listen to them, did not "audition" them. He picked the bulk of the tracks. I have specific music I use if that is my goal. Because of the planers, you could go right up to the speakers and not be blasted even though it was relatively loud. Almost anywhere was pretty close to the sweet spot. They were also free standing which is the least recommended mounting: in wall > on wall > free standing. Again, wasn't trying to do a critical review but if you were setting up a home theater for multiple seating and have lots of money, appears to be something to consider.
post #5057 of 6806
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscCollector View Post

Why didn't REVEL make a proper "C206" center speaker?

A "matching" center is just marketing nonsense. There is only one true matching center: the same speaker, at the same height, in the same orientation.

And since anything less than identical speaker in the identical orientation at the identical height is a compromise, anyway, the differences between things like x bass driver vs. y bass driver are de minimis in the hands of competent engineers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SyntheticShrimp View Post

I wouldn't write off the m105. I recently heard them at my local dealer and was astonished at how good they were. I have seen the measurements of them and they are superb. Needless to say I had to get a pair.

I compared them to the m106s while I was there. I preferred the m105s. In retrospect this isn't too suprising as they use the 5.25" driver for the rest of the performa3 range, excluding the c208. It probably matches the tweeter's dispersion better.

I suspect you're onto something there. Perhaps it's similar to the KEF Q100 and Q300, where the midrange quality of the smaller one is clearly better in most rooms due to superior pattern matching at the crossover. Speaking of KEF, your avatar is the LS50, so I'm curious how you would compare an obviously "voiced" speaker like the LS50 to the obviously "neutral" M105. Have you listened to them back-to-back?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlittlejeans View Post

Good points duc135. I've never understood why so much focus on AVS rests on sheer output of a subwoofer rather than on the sound quality of said subwoofer. As if the sub that can hit the highest SPL with some predetermined amount of THD is the best one out at the moment.

Mostly because the differences between subs is swamped by differences in calibration and placement. Yes, there are some crude subs with big output that sound like crap. Most of them use very simplistic drive-units with very long voicecoils and no inductance control. But anything from say a Peerless XLS12 or XXLS12 (as used in the SVS SB12-NSD now, and the Genelec sub in the "Way Down Deep" comparison) to the Aurasound NS18-992-4A (used in the new multikilobuck Magico subs, and my personal reference driver for years now) will sound basically the same so long as one has enough of them to randomize room modes, and enough volume displacement to meet one's SPL goals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by duc135 View Post

Take a listen to a good pair of headphones. You think the bass on those headphones are not punchy and tight?

Absolutely NOT.

There's NO bass from any headphones for me to consider punchy and tight.

As I've said, it depends on your DEFINITION of punchy and tight.

There is no UNIVERSAL definition.

To me, there is NO BASS from any headphone to begin with.

If it can't shake and rattle my walls and my bones like a rag doll, then it's NO bass at all in my book. biggrin.gif

Try the Denon D2000, and presumably D5000 and D7000, as well as the current variant thereof (sold under the brand of the OEM, Fostex). They can seriously shake one's ears and neck. I've never experienced another set of headphones that can move more air cleanly than those cans.
post #5058 of 6806
Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

I suspect you're onto something there. Perhaps it's similar to the KEF Q100 and Q300, where the midrange quality of the smaller one is clearly better in most rooms due to superior pattern matching at the crossover. Speaking of KEF, your avatar is the LS50, so I'm curious how you would compare an obviously "voiced" speaker like the LS50 to the obviously "neutral" M105. Have you listened to them back-to-back?

That's a good question, and it's one I've also thought about a lot. I haven't been able to compare them back to back yet since one of my M105s unfortunately arrived defective. I can tell you that I spent about a month with the quite neutral KEF 201/2. I compared the LS50 with it many times.

I did like the 201/2 better. But the voicing on the LS50 wasn't offensive. Without referring to the 201/2, it's very hard for me to hear the LS50 as anything but neutral. It's also worth noting that if I try to "de-voice" the LS50s using Anthem's ARC, they seem to sound dull and generally worse.
post #5059 of 6806
The 201/2 also has other compelling advantages over the LS50, such as greater cabinet volume and a dedicated bass driver. (It's also 4x the price.)

But the Revel M105 and LS50 seem like an especially interesting comparison. They are similar in size and volume displacement (though the Revel has a slight edge), but the LS50 is "voiced" and the M105 (per measurements in the SECRETS review) could scarcely be less editorial.
post #5060 of 6806
Yeah I agree. I am definitely looking forward to doing the comparison.

I have seen the Harman spin-o-rama's of the M105. They are indeed very neutral.
Edited by SyntheticShrimp - 10/10/13 at 7:46am
post #5061 of 6806
Ok. I finally got my M105s and spent some time comparing them with the LS50s. I wasn't blind so take the comparison for what it's worth. I shifted the speakers into the same positions quickly and used banana plugs to hasten the switch.

I have a vested interest in the LS50s (I own five) so I hate to say it, but on the whole I prefer the M105. I like the way the LS50s sound, but the M105s sound just that bit more believable. The LS50s are slightly brighter and more lively, but the M105s sound just right.

Spatially, they seem broadly similar. I don't note either one as having more apparent source width. Although the LS50s are a bit more forward.
post #5062 of 6806
Is there any hint yet of when, and if, Revel will release a new Concerta2 series?
post #5063 of 6806
Figure 8-10 year product cycles. I personally found the pricing of the performa 3s interesting g and I was wondering of the concerts was going to be phased out. If production has been moved offshore then there's a possibility of a real value coming in for a future concerta line. All speculation that uninformed forum guys can pontificate about smile.gif
post #5064 of 6806
Quote:
Originally Posted by SyntheticShrimp View Post

Yeah I agree. I am definitely looking forward to doing the comparison.

I have seen the Harman spin-o-rama's of the M105. They are indeed very neutral.

Care to post the Harman measurements if you can? I'm quite interested in comparisons to other speakers in the Harman line, particularly around 80 hz and above (I would use them with subs).
post #5065 of 6806
I would love to, but I haven't yet got permission from Harman.
post #5066 of 6806
Quote:
Originally Posted by SyntheticShrimp View Post

Ok. I finally got my M105s and spent some time comparing them with the LS50s. I wasn't blind so take the comparison for what it's worth. I shifted the speakers into the same positions quickly and used banana plugs to hasten the switch.

I have a vested interest in the LS50s (I own five) so I hate to say it, but on the whole I prefer the M105. I like the way the LS50s sound, but the M105s sound just that bit more believable. The LS50s are slightly brighter and more lively, but the M105s sound just right.

Spatially, they seem broadly similar. I don't note either one as having more apparent source width. Although the LS50s are a bit more forward.

You just want new speakers with grilles, don't you? biggrin.gif

IMO, Revel and KEF are almost like twins. You can't go wrong with either. biggrin.gif

If you're lucky, you'll probably end up with both of them. wink.gif
post #5067 of 6806
Saw the F206's in person today. Having seen several pictures of them, I thought they were nice looking. After seeing them in person, I changed my mind. They're not just nice looking, they're gorgeous. wink.gif

Although I do prefer them with the grilles on. The bare drivers look fine, but they're not as nice-looking as some other speakers..

I've always liked Revel speakers but never cared for their looks. They weren't ugly, just boring or so-so. This new Performa series changes that for me. I could envision the F206s in my room. smile.gif

I didn't get to listen to them, because they weren't set up and other customers wanted to hear other things. But I'm not a big believer in making proclamations about a speakers' sound quality based on a quick demo in a dealer room anyway.
post #5068 of 6806
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

IMO, Revel and KEF are almost like twins.***

In this case, they are not. The LS50 is very distinctively voiced. If you've heard them, you'll know what I mean. Obviously it's a voicing that many people seem to like. (Dare I add "at least for now"...)

The new baby Revel, according to the third-party measurements I've seen (and linked, supra) is not voiced at all.

Those are two very different-sounding approaches. In a same/different test (with matching either at a given frequency or in an average band) they will be easily differentiable. Preference may, of course, go either way.
post #5069 of 6806
Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

In this case, they are not. The LS50 is very distinctively voiced. If you've heard them, you'll know what I mean. Obviously it's a voicing that many people seem to like. (Dare I add "at least for now"...)

The new baby Revel, according to the third-party measurements I've seen (and linked, supra) is not voiced at all.

Those are two very different-sounding approaches. In a same/different test (with matching either at a given frequency or in an average band) they will be easily differentiable. Preference may, of course, go either way.



Hi, I'm not familiar with the KEF's so would you please explain voiced to me?
post #5070 of 6806
Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

In this case, they are not. The LS50 is very distinctively voiced. If you've heard them, you'll know what I mean. Obviously it's a voicing that many people seem to like. (Dare I add "at least for now"...)

The new baby Revel, according to the third-party measurements I've seen (and linked, supra) is not voiced at all.

Those are two very different-sounding approaches. In a same/different test (with matching either at a given frequency or in an average band) they will be easily differentiable. Preference may, of course, go either way.

I believe that you truly FEEL that way. But it's a matter of opinion. It's not black and white like the hissing noise through drivers caused by amps. biggrin.gif

Anyway, I have 3 fellow audiophile friends who ave auditioned the LS50. They all tell me the LS50 is 100% neutral and does not have a distinct "voice".
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