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Revel Owners Thread - Page 202

post #6031 of 6837
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

It's from the JBL performance series, PC600 center speaker, but it has the exact same midrange driver as the Salon2. A fellow member found this on eBay for me, and this guy bought it a little over a year ago. I can't find one mark on it anywhere or the grill. What a steal for 75% off it's original cost. Thanks to him I lucked out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post


BTW, I'm curious not questioning, where did you read that you're new JBL center uses the same mid-driver as the Salon2?

Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

review of the JBL, they mentioned it shared the mid driver with the Salon2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtimbers View Post

In a word, NONE. Different drivers, different design engineers, different intended Markets. Don't let the appearance of some of the drivers fool you. They are not the same. In addition, the design philosophies of the two companies is considerably different. It is mostly accidental when a JBL and Revel sound similar. We are basically going after perfection coming from two different directions.

Some of the in-wall speakers are, in fact the same units with slightly different voicings, but that doesn't apply to the big boys.

I knew it!
post #6032 of 6837
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post




I knew it!



Now I'm wondering if I would benefit much from the matching center speaker, I'm just not paying 2 grand for it. I really do like the JBL but maybe gtimbers would comment.
post #6033 of 6837
Hey comfy, you've been happy all along with it, right?
I wouldn't bother
post #6034 of 6837
Milt, yeah I've been happy with it and I'll be darned if it sounds out of place to me, plus with all the settings on a modern day AVP or AVR I can blend it into the mains nicely. Within a couple of years I'm hoping to move to the Ultima line or the 208's so I'll worry about matching it then.
post #6035 of 6837
I also think good speakers sound more alike then different.
post #6036 of 6837
The midrange appears the same, but the JBL uses a thicker diaphragm which is less prone to breakup. The frequency response and distortion characteristics of the two drivers are different. The motor assembly is common between the two. Don't let appearance fool you.
post #6037 of 6837
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtimbers View Post

The midrange appears the same, but the JBL uses a thicker diaphragm which is less prone to breakup. The frequency response and distortion characteristics of the two drivers are different. The motor assembly is common between the two. Don't let appearance fool you.



I'll just come right and ask you, if I may. Is the JBL PC600 center speaker a decent match for any Revel speakers in your opinion? I'm not looking to put you on the spot but I've been using one with my F52's for the better part of a year and to me it sounds good.
post #6038 of 6837
The new Harman speakers that were shown at CES, the JBL studio 2 and Infinity reference, look like they could be very good.
post #6039 of 6837

Hi All,

 

I am seeking some advise from Revel speakers owner in this thread.I bought a pair Ultima2 Studio for past 3 month and been searching for the new pair of speaker cable to pair with the new speaker. 

 

I had tried Kimber Kable Monocle X and it sound to bright and the sound stage is smaller the my previous set of old speaker cable (made in china speaker cable). If someone can share so of their expereince is very helpful. 

 

Oh...yes, my equipement, Marantz CD 6005 - CD Player, NAD M51 (DAC), Ayre KX-5MP xe (Pre-Amp), Mark Levinson No436 (mono block amp).

 

I mainly use this setup for listening to music....

 

 

Thanks ...

post #6040 of 6837
Quote:
Originally Posted by HifiApe View Post

Hi All,

I am seeking some advise from Revel speakers owner in this thread.I bought a pair Ultima2 Studio for past 3 month and been searching for the new pair of speaker cable to pair with the new speaker. 

I had tried Kimber Kable Monocle X and it sound to bright and the sound stage is smaller the my previous set of old speaker cable (made in china speaker cable). If someone can share so of their expereince is very helpful. 

Oh...yes, my equipement, Marantz CD 6005 - CD Player, NAD M51 (DAC), Ayre KX-5MP xe (Pre-Amp), Mark Levinson No436 (mono block amp).

I mainly use this setup for listening to music....


Thanks ...



Hi, in your Revel manual there should be a recommendation chart it coincides with the amount of feet you need the wire, it doesn't say to use any special speaker cables so I'm using regular speaker wire although it is 10 gage and it works very well, YMMV.
post #6041 of 6837
Quote:
Originally Posted by HifiApe View Post

Hi All,
I am seeking some advise from Revel speakers owner in this thread.I bought a pair Ultima2 Studio for past 3 month and been searching for the new pair of speaker cable to pair with the new speaker. 

Belden 5000UP is a good choice, from a company that actually manufactures the cables. I use it for my Salon2.
post #6042 of 6837
Quote:
Originally Posted by HifiApe View Post

Hi All,

I am seeking some advise from Revel speakers owner in this thread.I bought a pair Ultima2 Studio for past 3 month and been searching for the new pair of speaker cable to pair with the new speaker. 

I had tried Kimber Kable Monocle X and it sound to bright and the sound stage is smaller the my previous set of old speaker cable (made in china speaker cable). If someone can share so of their expereince is very helpful. 

Oh...yes, my equipement, Marantz CD 6005 - CD Player, NAD M51 (DAC), Ayre KX-5MP xe (Pre-Amp), Mark Levinson No436 (mono block amp).

I mainly use this setup for listening to music....


Thanks ...

I buy 10AWG speaker in bulk spools. So long as they are of sufficient size, speaker wire is speaker wire. You can use old, solid, electrical grade wire if you want and it won't make a difference in sound quality. My current 18" cables cost me all of $10 at most. Only about $1.50 of that was for the actual wire itself. The rest was for spade connectors, boots and wire sleeves.

post #6043 of 6837
Quote:
Originally Posted by HifiApe View Post

Hi All,

I am seeking some advise from Revel speakers owner in this thread.I bought a pair Ultima2 Studio for past 3 month and been searching for the new pair of speaker cable to pair with the new speaker. 

I had tried Kimber Kable Monocle X and it sound to bright and the sound stage is smaller the my previous set of old speaker cable (made in china speaker cable). If someone can share so of their expereince is very helpful. 

Oh...yes, my equipement, Marantz CD 6005 - CD Player, NAD M51 (DAC), Ayre KX-5MP xe (Pre-Amp), Mark Levinson No436 (mono block amp).

I mainly use this setup for listening to music....


Thanks ...

I'd second going with a 10 or 11 gauge wire. I use audio quest 4x14 and use the quad cables for my Salons. I don't shotgun. Instead, I combine 2 pairs of wire together. I then have Audioquest banana connectors on the amp end and bare wire on the speaker end.
post #6044 of 6837
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Now I'm wondering if I would benefit much from the matching center speaker, I'm just not paying 2 grand for it. I really do like the JBL but maybe gtimbers would comment.

Although it is "conventional wisdom" to use identical speakers across the front, one can mix, if its done right.

I have 5 PT800s for center/surrounds. But I use my Custom212s for my mains. I consider the PT800s the newer upgrades to the '77 L212s. But my Custom212s are better than the PT800s for stereo playback...mirror imaged, the new 052Ti tweeters (replacing the 066 al tweeters), 2105 midrange (replacing the LE5-9), Biased XOs.

What makes the Custom212 and PT800 work well together are their common links...3-way, wide, but shallow boxes, XO points that are very close, same size drivers (within 1"). Very good MC sound.
But its stereo playback, the huge wide, deep complex soundstage, where the Custom212s shine.
Edited by 4DHD - 1/13/14 at 3:42pm
post #6045 of 6837
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutralguy View Post

Belden 5000UP is a good choice, from a company that actually manufactures the cables. I use it for my Salon2.
The price difference per foot between the 5000 series(12awg) and the 5T00(10awg) is 34 cents.

Whether or not it makes any difference whatsoever, considering what I've got invested in my system an extra $7.20 for 2 ten foot runs is nothing.
post #6046 of 6837
Quote:
Originally Posted by HifiApe View Post

Hi All,

I am seeking some advise from Revel speakers owner in this thread.I bought a pair Ultima2 Studio for past 3 month and been searching for the new pair of speaker cable to pair with the new speaker. 

I had tried Kimber Kable Monocle X and it sound to bright and the sound stage is smaller the my previous set of old speaker cable (made in china speaker cable). If someone can share so of their expereince is very helpful. 

Oh...yes, my equipement, Marantz CD 6005 - CD Player, NAD M51 (DAC), Ayre KX-5MP xe (Pre-Amp), Mark Levinson No436 (mono block amp).

I mainly use this setup for listening to music....


Thanks ...

Yeah, wires don't do anything to the sound.

I use Kimber 8TC for my Salon2 because Kimber cables cool. But they sure don't do anything to the sound.
post #6047 of 6837
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

Yeah, wires don't do anything to the sound.

I use Kimber 8TC for my Salon2 because Kimber cables cool. But they sure don't do anything to the sound.

And most likely do not sound any better than BJC 12ga, which is what I use.
post #6048 of 6837
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtimbers View Post

***I am particularly bothered by the blatant WRONG information being stated over and over again regarding the Revel design engineer(s). For the most part, my designs have been properly attributed to me, whether liked or not. Unfortunately, the Revel speakers have not been properly assigned. The FACTS are as follows: *** Mark Glazer is the ONLY Revel designer from the first model (Gem) to the current day. *** Exclusively! Anything published to the contrary is simply NOT CORRECT. Kevin Voecks is a Marketing guy. ***

Mr. Timbers, considering you're there one assumes you write the truth.

My question is simply, why has this published attribution continued, from the beginning of Revel? I first heard of Revel through a review by Peter Aczel in The Audio Critic. Without putting too fine a point on it, TAC seems a bit more concerned with reality than most of its peers.

Here are the first two sentences of Peter Azcel's review of the ur-Salon, in part:

"This is a tough one. Kevin Voecks, Snell's former ace and now chief designer of Harman International's ultra- high-end Revel division, had told me***"

Source.
post #6049 of 6837
I don't know why the myth has been kept alive for so long, nor am I in a position to comment about how these things get started. As a fellow designer (to Mark) I am disappointed when proper credit is not given. All I can do is try to set things straight from what I know to be true.
post #6050 of 6837
I wonder if Sydney Harman had anything to do with that? Maybe his thinking was that Kevin's name was better known than Mark's, thus give a jump start to his new high end company.

In any case, the speakers Greg and Mark have designed over the years are second to none, imo.
post #6051 of 6837
Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtimbers View Post

***I am particularly bothered by the blatant WRONG information being stated over and over again regarding the Revel design engineer(s). For the most part, my designs have been properly attributed to me, whether liked or not. Unfortunately, the Revel speakers have not been properly assigned. The FACTS are as follows: *** Mark Glazer is the ONLY Revel designer from the first model (Gem) to the current day. *** Exclusively! Anything published to the contrary is simply NOT CORRECT. Kevin Voecks is a Marketing guy. ***

Mr. Timbers, considering you're there one assumes you write the truth.

My question is simply, why has this published attribution continued, from the beginning of Revel? I first heard of Revel through a review by Peter Aczel in The Audio Critic. Without putting too fine a point on it, TAC seems a bit more concerned with reality than most of its peers.

Here are the first two sentences of Peter Azcel's review of the ur-Salon, in part:

"This is a tough one. Kevin Voecks, Snell's former ace and now chief designer of Harman International's ultra- high-end Revel division, had told me***"

Source.

But there may be an English<-> Businessese translation missing.

When a company gets large enough, the chief designer's position can become more administrative, sales and political. I've definitely worked for chief engineers that had only MBAs and didn't know a dyne from a dime. ;-) However, you can't judge people by their slide rules or degrees. I've seen OJT-only engineers with degrees in Psychology who were hands-on with the best.
post #6052 of 6837
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

And most likely do not sound any better than BJC 12ga, which is what I use.

Which won't sound any better than Monoprice either.

Good wire is good wire. The biggest difference is in aesthetic and price.
post #6053 of 6837
Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

Mr. Timbers, considering you're there one assumes you write the truth.

My question is simply, why has this published attribution continued, from the beginning of Revel? I first heard of Revel through a review by Peter Aczel in The Audio Critic. Without putting too fine a point on it, TAC seems a bit more concerned with reality than most of its peers.

Here are the first two sentences of Peter Azcel's review of the ur-Salon, in part:

"This is a tough one. Kevin Voecks, Snell's former ace and now chief designer of Harman International's ultra- high-end Revel division, had told me***"

Source.

I wonder if Stereophile, Soundstage, S&V Magazine, and other publications know that Electrical Engineer Mark Glazer is the REAL Revel designer? Probably not. biggrin.gif

Next time John Atkinson responses to any post, someone needs to tell him. biggrin.gif
post #6054 of 6837
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

Mr. Timbers, considering you're there one assumes you write the truth.

My question is simply, why has this published attribution continued, from the beginning of Revel? I first heard of Revel through a review by Peter Aczel in The Audio Critic. Without putting too fine a point on it, TAC seems a bit more concerned with reality than most of its peers.

Here are the first two sentences of Peter Azcel's review of the ur-Salon, in part:

"This is a tough one. Kevin Voecks, Snell's former ace and now chief designer of Harman International's ultra- high-end Revel division, had told me***"

Source.

I wonder if Stereophile, Soundstage, S&V Magazine, and other publications know that Electrical Engineer Mark Glazer is the REAL Revel designer? Probably not. biggrin.gif

Next time John Atkinson responses to any post, someone needs to tell him. biggrin.gif
i would be very surprised if he didn't know the truth. Stereophiles is mostly about marketing but so are the rest.
post #6055 of 6837
Perhaps Kevin's title enables him to be the face and spokesman for Revel a role that the designers don't want.
It would be nice if the people who do the real work were recognized in print but that rarely happens and perhaps they don't want the attention which could entail being the subject of a bunch of dumbass questions asking them to explain their work.
Look at the majority of industry people who post on internet forums.
They're subject to every anonymous nutjob who has some esoteric bone to pick with their products.
Thanks to Greg for setting the record straight and I thought I remembered the Revel designer posting here in times past.
Take comfort in the fact that the speakers they produce are one version of the state of the art and that you appreciate their labor.
post #6056 of 6837
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutralguy View Post

Belden 5000UP is a good choice, from a company that actually manufactures the cables. I use it for my Salon2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post

The price difference per foot between the 5000 series(12awg) and the 5T00(10awg) is 34 cents.

Whether or not it makes any difference whatsoever, considering what I've got invested in my system an extra $7.20 for 2 ten foot runs is nothing.


I use the 10 awg Belden (gray) as well with Salon2's. I purchased the cable plus locking banana plugs from BJC. Two ten foot cables plus the locking bananas are around $35. Revel's manuals say that 10 gauge wire is good for up to 33 foot runs. Revel seems to want about .07 ohms or less cable resistance. To me, the Belden cable has a solid, quality feeling to it. The banana plugs are nice as well. Connectors that lock are a real plus.
post #6057 of 6837
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigguyca View Post


I use the 10 awg Belden (gray) as well with Salon2's. I purchased the cable plus locking banana plugs from BJC. Two ten foot cables plus the locking bananas are around $35. Revel's manuals say that 10 gauge wire is good for up to 33 foot runs. Revel seems to want about .07 ohms or less cable resistance. To me, the Belden cable has a solid, quality feeling to it. The banana plugs are nice as well. Connectors that lock are a real plus.


BJC's locking banana plugs will work on the AVR in also I'm assuming? Will they except 10 AWG wire?
post #6058 of 6837
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

BJC's locking banana plugs will work on the AVR in also I'm assuming? Will they except 10 AWG wire?

Although I like most of what BJC sells, I am not a fan of those locking banana plugs.
I ordered speaker wires for my LCRs w/locking plugs. I was not all that thrilled with how they tightened and eventually the tongs on one plugs broke off, making it totally unusable. And those cables/plugs are not inexpensive.
post #6059 of 6837
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

Although I like most of what BJC sells, I am not a fan of those locking banana plugs.
I ordered speaker wires for my LCRs w/locking plugs. I was not all that thrilled with how they tightened and eventually the tongs on one plugs broke off, making it totally unusable. And those cables/plugs are not inexpensive.



I gotcha. I'm noticing my rocket fish ones on my Sunfire amp are wiggling their way out once in awhile, I'm assuming this is bass related from my one sub which isn't far from there. One thing I'm going to try is Sorbothane pads under the feet of my two racks and under the feet of my gear. I just ordered a vintage B&O turntable and I'm going to try to isolate it better with those pads. Yes I'm going the analog music route after 20 years of digital, at least partially.
post #6060 of 6837
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

I gotcha. I'm noticing my rocket fish ones on my Sunfire amp are wiggling their way out once in awhile, I'm assuming this is bass related from my one sub which isn't far from there. One thing I'm going to try is Sorbothane pads under the feet of my two racks and under the feet of my gear. I just ordered a vintage B&O turntable and I'm going to try to isolate it better with those pads. Yes I'm going the analog music route after 20 years of digital, at least partially.

I like it all...but a combo of a quality TT and phono stage (in my case Parasound P7) is sweet.
I can not remember who the reviewer was, but he made the statement, "even though CDs measure better in every way...LPs just sound better."
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