or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Other Areas of Interest › Movies, Concerts, and Music Discussion › The BEST Movies Nobody Has Heard Of?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The BEST Movies Nobody Has Heard Of? - Page 10

post #271 of 601
Some great little known sci-fi and horror.

Hardware
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyY_iX9UCE8

Death machine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUVGxfyEPV8

I come in peace/dark angel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8F92p1ept0

The slayer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBWTDqnimFI

Last house on dead end street
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8A4iE...eature=related

Screams of a winter night
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEo2qQJSoMU

Possession
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40R0c...eature=related

Noroi-the curse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7A5VNsEeAMY
post #272 of 601
Battleground(1949)- Band Of Brothers' historical fiction grandfather
The Keep(1983)- horror film in WW2 eastern Europe - strange supernatural
Big Night(1996)- saving a restaurant sort of
Anything by Akira Kurosawa, but I am sure U new this.
Thanks for all the recc's. I am no longer bored with the movies.
post #273 of 601
Wag the Dog fur sure. This film just works on so many levels. Purchase is suggested as it stands up to repeated viewings.

The Silent Partner was mentioned above. Good Canadian fare hit to the moon by Celine Lomez ... that voice, that accent!

Glad to see this thread out and about again.
post #274 of 601
Romeo is Bleeding. Starring Gary Oldman, Lena Olin, Roy Scheider. About a crooked cop involved with the mafia.
post #275 of 601
Enchanted April, a great, overlooked, and little-known film, was released today on DVD if anyone, other than me, is interested.

SMK
post #276 of 601
"Cathy Tippel", a 1975 Paul Verhoeven film I saw in a theater back then.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0073233/
post #277 of 601
I don't know about "best" or "nobody", but...

NORTHFORK: like TIDELAND and PAN'S LABYRINTH, it's about the disturbing nature of childhood fantasies. As a film it looks like David Lynch without the ghastliness.

CASHBACK: romantic comedy for men. There's a thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1101106

RANCHO DELUXE: offbeat modern western, great cast, quotable.

BRICK: high school drug dealers where everyone talks in Chandler-speak.

CQ: trying to make a Barbarella-style film in Paris around 1970. (Well, it was a good concept...)

Ken Russell's ELGAR: a short biopic, strangely poignant.

DARBY O'GILL AND THE LITTLE PEOPLE: the strangest thing I've seen recently. I laughed until I cried. It helps to be a celt.

THE DAY THE EARTH CAUGHT FIRE: exceptional classic SF.

HARD TIMES (1975): Walter Hill's first film, depression-era tough-guy story with Charles Bronson and James Coburn. (Warning: an earlier DVD was widescreen, the rerelease is P&S).

MEN IN WAR: Anthony Mann Korean war pic with Robert Ryan.

GREAT ST LOUIS BANK ROBBERY: no-budget heist film with young Steve McQueen; very gritty

WILDERNESS SURVIVAL FOR GIRLS: the setup is like a slasher film, but it goes in a different direction. No blood or terror-rama, it's scary in a different way.

-Bill
post #278 of 601
American Splendor.

Watch it and thank me later.
post #279 of 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordcloud View Post

American Splendor.

Watch it and thank me later.

meh. -1 (and I like oddball sleepers - but this lay there like a dead fish IMO)

unless you're a fan of Harvey Pekar.
post #280 of 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by doccoffin View Post

One of the funniest movies I ever saw was David Mamet`s "State and Main" (I may be the only one who saw it) followed by "America`s Sweethearts", "Ready To Wear" and Ang Lee`s "The Wedding Banquet".
One of the darkest is "Bad Company" and "The Last Seduction" can only be described as delicious.

How can you go wrong with David Mamet AND William Macy AND Philip Seymour Hoffman?
post #281 of 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by PATSY View Post

Battleground(1949)- Band Of Brothers' historical fiction grandfather
The Keep(1983)- horror film in WW2 eastern Europe - strange supernatural
Big Night(1996)- saving a restaurant sort of
Anything by Akira Kurosawa, but I am sure U new this.
Thanks for all the recc's. I am no longer bored with the movies.

I'll second "Big Night" (1996)!
post #282 of 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdc View Post

meh. -1 (and I like oddball sleepers - but this lay there like a dead fish IMO)

unless you're a fan of Harvey Pekar.

Not a fan of Harvey Pekar and I still loved this movie. I loved how the soundtrack was very effective in creating a mood and feel.
post #283 of 601
Mentioned once in this thread, Miller's Crossing is the best movie no one I know has heard of.

For an original entry not yet mentioned here, I'd say Spirited Away is next on my Awesome List of Virtual Unknown Films (ALVUFs). It's the all-time #1 grossing film in Japan, but despite being released in theaters by Disney here in the U.S., no one I know has heard of it.

Lastly, whoever mentioned The Cube is on the money.
post #284 of 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdc View Post

How can you go wrong with David Mamet AND William Macy AND Philip Seymour Hoffman?

Absolutely !
post #285 of 601
How about "84 Charlie Mopic" ? This is a Vietnam war film shot from the first person perspective of the camera-man from start to finish. Mostly hand-held (or at least it looks that way) footage shot by a soldier whose assignment is to film the activities of his squad. This is a really cool movie and I was very impressed by it. I recorded it from a laserdisc back in the eighties, I think. You dont get to see the camera-man at all through the whole film if I remember correctly. Anybody else seen this one? I have it archived on 8mm tape but my deck is broken otherwise I'd watch it again right now.
post #286 of 601
I didn't see any of these listed..........maybe they aren't that obscure but here they are:

House of Games---David Mamet con game film. Joe Mantegna, Lindsay Crouse

Go--Crime, Comedy, Thriller........Similar to Pulp Fiction in the way the story is setup. Katie Holmes, Sara Polley

Freeway--Comedy, Crime. Resse Witherspoon in one of her early movies. Also stars Keifer Sutherland.

Emperor's Club---Drama. Kevin Kline as a prep school Professor. The story holds true about values & getting ahead.

King of California--Comedy. Michael Douglas, Evan Rachel Wood. Probably not that obscure but it doesn't seem to be talked about a lot.
post #287 of 601
La Vie En Rose.

I had never heard of this movie before seeing it, even though the lead actress won an oscar for the role. It is a longer movie, but in my opinion, extremely well acted and a very good film. Don't know how well known it is around these parts.
post #288 of 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordcloud View Post

La Vie En Rose.

I had never heard of this movie before seeing it, even though the lead actress won an oscar for the role. It is a longer movie, but in my opinion, extremely well acted and a very good film. Don't know how well known it is around these parts.


+1 Absolutely amazing movie and a fantastic performance by Marion Cotillard!

Well deserved Oscar win for Marion Cotillard as 'Edith Piaf', France's greatest popular singer, in "La môme" (La vie en rose USA title)."

See my thread on 'La môme' (The Little Sparrow) here.
post #289 of 601
The Visitor
post #290 of 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by chirpie View Post

I adored Yi Yi. (2000)

I think Criterion just released a redone version. (Or is it still coming?)

EDIT:

Yup, it's out.


http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/read.php?ID=22650

rented that a few year ago - pretty good movie (Taiwan?)

..........

loved "Color of Paradise" (originally "Color of God") Iranian (by the same guy that did "Children of Heaven"). but its well known in the "foreign film circle" so I didn't mention it as an overlooked film like The Visitor.

.......


"Arranged" is another over looked film.
post #291 of 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by jandawil View Post

I know it is somewhat known in these forums, but very few have seen or heard of Memento and it got very little play if any at the theaters. A very unique movie with a great performance by Guy Pearce. Definitely one to watch twice.

Memento was pretty mainstream - made what's his name a household name (like El Marichi did for Rodregez(sp) - "Following" was "whats his name" earlier work and BETTER than Memento. In fact Memento is a REMAKE/COPY of "whats his name (guy who did all the recent batman movies)" Following.


Following is a better work than Memento BTW.

try renting it if you can find it (Black and white movie BTW).
post #292 of 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdlehman View Post

Cut Throat Island
The Postman
Mom & Dad Save the World
The Shadow

Stace

The Postman was one of the greats. Another mentioned Matewain(sp) - this is a cult classic and as such does get its deserved due (First time I ever saw Strathcarn - he was great in Deloras Clayburn).

Sadly, The Postman as of to date still does not get recognition as one of the best films ever ;-(.
post #293 of 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by gaffo View Post

Memento was pretty mainstream - made what's his name a household name (like El Marichi did for Rodregez(sp) - "Following" was "whats his name" earlier work and BETTER than Memento. In fact Memento is a REMAKE/COPY of "whats his name (guy who did all the recent batman movies)" Following.


Following is a better work than Memento BTW.

try renting it if you can find it (Black and white movie BTW).

What's his name is 'Christopher Nolan' and IYHO 'Following' may be a better work than 'Memento' but IMHO 'Memento' is just a hair better than 'Following'.

Both are great films but I prefer 'Memento' over 'Following'

BTW, 'Memento' is NOT a remake/copy of 'Following', it is adapted from his brother Jonathan's short story "Memento Mori."

"Memento Mori" is a short story written by Jonathan Nolan.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Spoiler  
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
In the story, a man named Earl has anterograde amnesia, a condition in which his brain cannot make new memories. Because of his inability to remember things for more than a few minutes, he uses notes and tattoos to keep track of information. Earl received his condition after he and his wife were attacked by an unknown assailant. His wife was killed and Earl suffered severe head injuries, resulting in his amnesia. He is now confined to a mental institution. Eventually, through notes written to himself, he convinces himself to escape and hunt for the man who killed his wife. Earl succeeds in murdering the man.

Nolan got the idea for the story from his general psychology class at Georgetown University. Nolan pitched the idea to his brother Christopher during a cross-country road trip from Chicago to Los Angeles. His brother responded to the idea, and encouraged him to write a first draft. After Jonathan returned to Washington, D.C. to finish college, he sent his brother a draft two months later, and Christopher set to work on a screenplay, while Jonathan began finishing the short story. Christopher eventually made the feature film Memento, starring Guy Pearce, which was inspired from Jonathan's story, although radically different. Jonathan's short story was eventually published in Esquire Magazine, although it can also be found in James Mottram's making-of book about the film, The Making of Memento, and as a hidden special feature on the film's special edition DVD.


Although 'Memento' and 'Following' are similar in their non-linear plot structure they are completely different movies.

Plot for 'Following':
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Spoiler  
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
A struggling young writer takes to following strangers around the streets of London, ostensibly to find inspiration for his new novel.

Initially, he sets strict rules for himself regarding whom he should follow and for how long, but soon discards them as he focuses on a well-manicured man in a dark suit. The man in the suit quickly confronts the young man and introduces himself as "Cobb". Cobb reveals that he is a professional thief and invites the young man to accompany him on various burglaries. The material gains from these crimes seem to be of secondary importance to Cobb, who takes pleasure in rifling through the personal items in his targets' flats. He explains that his true passion is using the shock of robbery to make his victims re-examine their lives.

The young man is thrilled by Cobb's lifestyle and begins to emulate him, cutting his hair short and wearing a dark suit. He attempts break-ins of his own, as Cobb encourages and guides him. The young man also begins to follow a blonde woman, who claims to be the girlfriend of a local gangster. He makes unsuccessful advances on her, and later breaks into her flat. Afterwards, the blonde confides that the gangster is blackmailing her with incriminating photographs. The young man breaks into the gangster's safe, but finds only modeling photos and cash. After confronting the blonde, he learns that she and Cobb have been manipulating him into mimicking Cobb's behavior to frame him for Cobb's recent murder charge.

The young man leaves to turn himself in to the police. The blonde reports her success to Cobb, who then reveals that he actually works for the gangster and has a plan of his own. In order to stop the blonde from blackmailing the gangster with evidence from a recent murder, Cobb kills her. Once the young man finishes his story to the police, he learns that he has been framed for the blonde's murder, which was Cobb's plan for him all along. As the young man is arrested, Cobb disappears into a crowd."


Plot for 'Memento':
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Spoiler  
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Before the movie began, Leonard Shelby, an insurance claims investigator, was attacked in his home by two masked assailants. Leonard managed to kill the man who was raping and suffocating his wife but was brutally injured by the second man, who escaped. His wife did not survive the attack and Leonard was left brain damaged, losing his short term memory. The second attacker also manipulated the crime scene to make it seem as if the only attacker was the man Leonard had killed, forcing the police to drop the investigation. With nothing left, Leonard had set out on his own investigation to search for the other man, who is known only as "John G. or James G.".

Note: The story is told backwards, showing the ending first and the beginning last. Every next scene is an event Leonard has forgotten.
The movie is interspersed with scenes of Leonard in his motel room explaining his condition to an unknown caller. He also explains the story of Sammy Jankis, a man Leonard investigated for insurance fraud. Sammy apparently lost his short term memory, but after several tests his condition was defined as psychological instead of physical. In an attempt to snap him out of his state, Sammy's distraught wife had him inject her with her prescribed daily insulin shot every 20 minutes. She thought he would remember something this important, but each time, Sammy forgot that he'd already done it. His wife went into a coma and died, and he was institutionalized. Leonard soon realizes that he's forgotten who it is he is talking to and hangs up, refusing to answer again. A note is slipped under his door containing a photo of Leonard, smiling and covered in blood.

At the movie's start Leonard is shown to have taken the picture of a man he has just shot and killed in a derelict building. Shortly beforehand, Leonard and his soon to be victim Teddy, an apparent friend, leave Leonard's motel and head out to the derelict building. While they search the inside, Leonard finds a picture of Teddy in his pocket. The back of the picture reads "DON'T BELIEVE HIS LIES. HE IS THE ONE. KILL HIM." With this Leonard attacks Teddy, thinking he has finally caught John G. Teddy however ridicules Leonard's ignorance, claiming Teddy is not his real name and that there is something in the basement Leonard should see that will provide the truth to what Leonard has become. Leonard, however, cannot control his anger and kills Teddy.

Before Teddy arrived to pick him up, Leonard was in a restaurant bathroom washing his hands. He finds two tattoos on hand and wrist that read "REMEMBER SAMMY JANKIS" and "THE FACTS...". When he leaves the restroom a waiter gives him his belongings, one being an envelope. Leonard goes back to his motel and opens the package, given to him by a woman named Natalie. Inside is the apparent identity of John G. by way of a license number. The number belongs to Teddy and he writes the note on the picture to kill him. As Leonard prepares to leave, he is shown to have numerous informative tattoos (most of which are facts about John G.) all over his body. One such is on his chest, "JOHN G. RAPED AND MURDERED MY WIFE". In the motel lobby, Leonard discusses his condition with the clerk before Teddy arrives.

Before this Leonard arrives at the restaurant and meets with Natalie, who gives him the information on John G. and the two discuss Leonard's wife. Natalie has apparently helped Leonard because he had helped her before. The note on the back of her picture reads that she will help him out of pity and she has also lost someone. On his way to meet with Natalie, Teddy invites him for lunch and they discuss their search for John G. and also Leonard's disciplined documentation of new events to replace memory. Teddy shows his optimism toward helping Leonard.

Leonard wakes up lying next to Natalie in her home. The two share a brief kiss in an intimate moment. She tells him that she will have the man with the registered license plate number in a little while. The night before, Leonard arrived at Natalie's door angrily inquiring about a man named Dodd. Natalie claims Leonard offered to help her get rid of Dodd and that he was out to get her. Leonard calms down and it is revealed that Natalie's boyfriend, Jimmy, has disappeared when he went to meet a man named "Teddy". When lying in bed with Natalie, Leonard emotionally divulges his feelings toward the loss of his wife mixed with the confusion of his condition.

Prior to going to Natalie's house, Leonard wakes up in a motel room different from his. In the closet he finds the man known as Dodd, severely beaten with tape over his mouth. Teddy arrives, saying Leonard called asking for help. Dodd claims Leonard was the one who did this to him. Leonard and Teddy decide to make Dodd leave town, threatening to kill him. Leonard then goes to Natalie's looking for answers.

Before this, Leonard is in a bathroom holding a wine bottle for some reason. He decides to take a shower. Dodd then enters and he and Leonard fight. Leonard incapacitates Dodd and ties him up. He then calls Teddy asking for help. The reason Leonard was in the hotel room is then shown: Leonard is running frantically for some reason. He realizes Dodd is chasing and shooting at him, and escapes in his car. A note in his pocket provides Dodd's address and Leonard breaks into his motel room, grabs a wine bottle as a weapon and waits in the bathroom. Dodd was originally following Leonard and then attacked him head on, forcing Leonard to run away.

That same morning before the encounter with Dodd, Leonard had arrived at a desolate location and burned many of his wife's belongings, in a failed attempt to forget her and move on. A few hours before Leonard had hired a prostitute to lay around those same belongings in his motel room, sleep next to him, and then go to the bathroom as a brief simulation of a night with his wife.

The day before, Leonard encounters Teddy after leaving Natalie's house. He claims that Natalie is conning Leonard into helping her and that he can't trust her. Knowing from his picture reading "DON'T BELIEVE HIS LIES" that he can't trust Teddy, he ignores him. Inside Natalie's house, Leonard was frantically searching for a pen before she arrives beaten. She claims Dodd beat her and begs Leonard to help her. He agrees and is given information on Dodd. It is revealed however that before this, Natalie entered unscathed and told Leonard about Dodd and demanded that he kill him for her. When he refuses, she viciously berates him, his condition and his wife. In his anger, Leonard attacks Natalie, who then exits the house long enough for Leonard to forget what happened and then enters and manipulates him.

Before this, Leonard is shown arriving at the bar where Natalie works, where she treats him harshly on behalf of the suit he is wearing and the car he drives. When asked if he knows Jimmy Grants, some cop, or a guy named Teddy he says no, remembering. After explaining his condition and his wife's death, Natalie shows sympathy towards him and allows him to stay at her place for awhile.

Before he arrived at Natalie's bar, Leonard stopped to tattoo John G.'s license plate on his body. Teddy arrived and told Leonard that he should leave town because a crooked cop is out to get him. Leonard again regards Teddy's photo and ignores him.

Finally Leonard finds out the one calling him was a cop who claims to have found John G. The cop turns out to be Teddy and tells him that the murderer is a drug dealer, and that he can be found at an abandoned building outside of town. Leonard goes to the building and ambushes a man named Jimmy Grantz, Natalie's boyfriend, who recognizes Leonard. Leonard forces Jimmy to take off his clothes before killing him. He then puts on Jimmy's clothes so that he can dispose of his own bloody ones.

A few minutes later, Teddy (Joe Pantoliano) arrives at the abandoned building, and Leonard discovers he has been tricked. Jimmy Grantz was a local drug dealer and was not involved in his wife's murder. After Teddy exclaims "So you lie to yourself to be happy. Nothing wrong with that. We all do it.", he reveals the truth: Leonard conditioned himself to integrate the Sammy Jankis story (who was actually a fraud with no wife) with his story (Leonard's wife survived the attack, had diabetes and died when she made Leonard give her an insulin overdose). Teddy is revealed to be the detective that took pity on him and helped Leonard hunt down and kill the real John G. over a year ago. To Teddy's surprise, Leonard forgot and continued his search. Teddy admits that he manipulated Leonard into killing Jimmy and set up a fake drug deal to steal Jimmy's money and split it with him. Attempting to convince Leonard, Teddy reveals that they have been tracking different "John G."'s in various towns for months and that Teddy himself is also a "John G.", his real being John E. Gammell.

Leonard is at first distraught, but soon realizes that revenge was his only reason to live and so provides himself a new John G. to kill: Teddy. Leonard burns the photo evidence of the real John G. and Jimmy Grants' deaths and instead writes the "DON'T BELIEVE HIS LIES" note on the back of Teddy's photo. He also writes down Teddy's license plate number, all to set up Teddy's murder. Leonard leaves in Jimmy's car and ponders whether or not what he is doing is fair. He convinces himself it is before stopping at the tattoo parlor. Leonard has already forgotten what he has done.


Reading the plot summaries it is obvious that 'Memento' is based off of 'Memento Moir' and that 'Following' is a completely different movie.

Both are excellent films!
post #294 of 601
thanks for the details on the films. Nolan - yes thats the guy. my memory is ****** (its poor esp WRT names).

with respect, I really do feel that Memento was just a remake of Following (which i do think is the better film).

Both employ the non-linear timeline (was Nolan the first? I ask because I've found that others tend to do thing earlier and their methods are lost to time). and in truth that is the only novelty both films employ.

if you undo that quality and rearrange them in a linear timeline both movies are average.

just my opinion on the matter.

;-/.
post #295 of 601
as an example of copying other's works (off topic I appologize) "runs silent run deep" - great movie BTW, was copied by the Star Trek episode where the Enterprise encouters the Romans for the first time (I forget the name of that episode) - but it is a total copy of the movie. out of respect for the great movie I'm sure, but still a copy.
post #296 of 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by gaffo View Post

thanks for the details on the films. Nolan - yes thats the guy. my memory is ****** (its poor esp WRT names).

So does mine; I have to depend on 'Google' and 'IMDB' as well as other resources to "refresh" my memory.
post #297 of 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by gaffo View Post

as an example of copying other's works (off topic I appologize) "runs silent run deep" - great movie BTW, was copied by the Star Trek episode where the Enterprise encouters the Romans for the first time (I forget the name of that episode) - but it is a total copy of the movie. out of respect for the great movie I'm sure, but still a copy.

Sorry this is OT.

gaffo is this the Star Trek episode?

Season 2, Episode 25 - Bread and Circuses

Synopsis:
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Spoiler  
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

The Enterprise encounters a planet whose culture is patterned on ancient Rome... and holds gladiatorial games that Kirk, Spock, and McCoy must fight in.
Full Recap
Stardate 4040.7: The Enterprise is tracking down a missing ship, the Beagle, and find its wreckage but no crew. They follow the trail to a nearby planet where they pick up primitive television transmissions, talking about rebelling slaves and gladiatorial combat. A barbarian is killed in the games and Spock identifies the person as a crewmember on the missing ship.

Kirk, Spock, and McCoy beam down outside a large city, where they are ambushed by a group of runaway slaves led by the elderly Septimus and ex-gladiator Flavius, all of who worship the Sun. Kirk convinces them they're from a distant land and they agree to send Flavius with them so they can look for the missing crew. Kirk mentions the captain of the missing ship, Captain R.M. Merik, who the slaves identify as Merikus, First Citizen. They still agree to help the Enterprise party but they are captured as they head for the city and the soldiers quickly recognize Spock as a barbarian.

The trio is imprisoned with Flavius, who is led off to the games. They make a break for it but they are quickly recaptured and they meet Captain Merik, now a First Citizen under the proconsul, Claudius Marcus. They have a private meeting and Marcus reveals that he knows who they are and what the Federation is, compliments of Merik. Merik reveals they beamed down to repair their ship and met Marcus, who convinced Merik that their planet shouldn't be contaminated. Merik beamed down the rest of his crew, who were sentenced to fight in the arena. Marcus expects Kirk to beam down his crew as well and the captain refuses. Marcus threatens Spock and McCoy if Kirk doesn't call down a new landing party. Armed guards show up and Kirk gives Scotty a standby order. Kirk can't beam down an armed party or attack from orbit without breaking the Prime Directive, which Marcus well knows. Kirk reestablishes contact and gives Scotty a Condition Green message, and an angry Marcus has them taken to the arena.

In orbit, Scotty knows the Condition Green means they're in trouble but he's prohibited from taking action. Scotty orders Chekov to pinpoint the city's power sources.

Spock and McCoy are taken into the arena for the televised event while Kirk is forced to watch with Marcus and Merik. McCoy is forced to fight Flavius while Spock spars with another opponent. McCoy isn't doing well and Marcus notes that Spock can't help him. Kirk settles back and bluffs Marcus into believing he's unconcerned. When Flavius gets the upper hand on McCoy, Spock quickly drops his opponent and then takes down Flavius. The referee asks for Marcus to settle the matter and the proconsul decides to keep them alive for the threat of a more painful death later.

Spock and McCoy are taken back to their cell while Kirk is taken to Marcus' quarters where he finds a willing slave girl. She's there as his slave girl for the night. In the cell, Spock ceaselessly tries to get out of the cell and McCoy tries to apologize to him. Spock dismisses his attempt and McCoy points out that Spock is more willing to die rather then let his human half slip out. Finally McCoy admits he's concerned about Kirk.

Kirk spends the night with the slave girl, Drusilla, and later in the afternoon she leaves and Marcus greets him and notes one of their communicators are missing. Merik searches Kirk and doesn't find it, and Marcus dismisses him. He then notes he wanted to give Kirk one last night as a man before dying in the arena, with a quick clean kill. The Master of the Arena prepares to kill Kirk but Flavius bursts in. The guards gun him down and Kirk grabs a gun and Scotty cuts the power generators from orbit. Kirk makes his way to the cells and frees Spock and McCoy but guards come at them from both side. Marcus orders them to go to swords to avoid a crossfire and he tells Merik to watch and see how men die. The Enterprise crew manage to hold them off but the guards close in and Merik uses the stolen communicator to signal Scotty for beam up. Marcus stabs him in the back but Merik tosses Kirk the communicator and the landing party beam out as the guards open fire.

Kirk gives Scotty a commendation for his quick thinking and they consider the slaves' sun-worshipping belief. Uhura reveals that the Sun the slaves worship is the Son of God. The crew realize that just as on Earth, the Roman Empire will fall to a new more peaceful way.
post #298 of 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by gaffo View Post

Both employ the non-linear timeline (was Nolan the first? I ask because I've found that others tend to do thing earlier and their methods are lost to time). and in truth that is the only novelty both films employ.

The backwards timeline structure in Memento was first used in the 1983 film Betrayal, written by Harold Pinter. That film was also parodied by the famous "backwards episode" of Seinfeld (called "The Betrayal"), which aired in 1997.

Neither Memento nor Betrayal are "non-linear". Both are perfectly linear, they just progress backwards. Each scene leads directly to the events that happened immediately before it, in a straight line.

A true non-linear story will have scenes jumbled around, completely out of chronological order (whether forwards or backwards). Pulp Fiction is a non-linear film.

Non-linear storytelling is hardly a new thing. It goes all the way back to the early days of cinema, and was especially popular in the '60s.

Even if its structural conceit isn't completely original, I consider Memento to be one of the best-written films ever made. Originality is not the only criteria for a good screenplay. How well its ideas are executed is more important.
post #299 of 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

Neither Memento nor Betrayal are "non-linear". Both are perfectly linear, they just progress backwards. Each scene leads directly to the events that happened immediately before it, in a straight line.

Well I guess that depends on what who you're talking to and your definition of non-linear:

Quote from William Arnold the movie critic of the 'Seattle Post-Intelligencer' in his review of March 30, 2001 in his review titled:

"Memento' is new, original, possibly even great."

Amazingly, 29-year-old writer-director Nolan ("Following") not only makes "Memento" work as a non-linear puzzle film, but as a tense, atmospheric thriller and a first-rate vehicle for Pearce ("Priscilla, Queen of the Desert," "L.A. Confidential"), who has never seemed more appealing, or commanding.

Full review here.

From Wikipedia:

"Memento premiered on September 5, 2000 at the Venice Film Festival to critical acclaim and received a similar response when it was released in theaters on December 15, 2000. Critics especially praised its unique, nonlinear narrative structure and themes of memory, perception, grief, self-deception, and revenge."

Also from Wikipedia:

Nonlinear narrative
Nonlinear narrative or disrupted narrative is a narrative technique, sometimes used in literature, film and other narratives, wherein events are portrayed out of chronological order. It is often used to mimic the structure and recall of human memory but has been applied for other reasons as well. The term has a slightly different meaning in the context of video games, where it refers to the possibility of narrating different stories depending on the player's actions in the game.

Literature
Beginning a narrative in medias res (Latin: "into the middle of things") began in ancient times as an oral tradition and was established as a convention of epic poetry with Homer's Iliad in the 8th century BC. The technique of narrating most the story in flashback also dates back to the Indian epic, the Mahabharata, around the 5th century BC. Several medieval Arabian Nights tales such as "Sinbad the Sailor", "The City of Brass" and "The Three Apples" also had nonlinear narratives employing the in medias res and flashback techniques.

From the late 1800s and early 1900s, modernist novelists Joseph Conrad, Virginia Woolf, Ford Madox Ford, Marcel Proust, and William Faulkner experimented with narrative chronology and abandoning linear order.

Examples of nonlinear novels are: Laurence Sterne's The Life and Opinions of Tristram Shandy, Gentleman (1759-67), Thomas Carlyle's Sartor Resartus (ca. 1833), Emily Brontë's Wuthering Heights (1847), James Joyce's Ulysses (1922) and Finnegans Wake (1939), William S. Burroughs' Naked Lunch (1959), Joseph Heller's Catch-22 (1961), Kurt Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse-Five (1969), Milorad Pavić's Dictionary of the Khazars (1988), Irvine Welsh's Trainspotting (1993) and Carole Maso's Ava: a novel (1993).

Film
Defining nonlinear structure in film is, at times, difficult. Films may use extensive flashbacks or flashforwards within a linear storyline, while nonlinear films often contain linear sequences. Orson Welles' Citizen Kane (1941), influenced structurally by The Power and the Glory (1933), and Akira Kurosawa's Rashomon (1950) use a non-chronological flashback narrative that is often labeled nonlinear.

Silent and early era
Experimentation with nonlinear structure in film dates back to the silent film era, including D.W. Griffith's Intolerance (1916) and Abel Gance's Napoléon (1927). Nonlinear film emerged from the French avant-garde in 1929 with Luis Buñuel and Salvador Dali's Un Chien Andalou (English: An Andalusian Dog). The surrealist film jumps into fantasy and juxtaposes images, granting the filmmakers an ability to create statements about the Church, art, and society that are left open to interpretation.[6] Buñuel and Dali's L'Âge d'or (1930) (English: The Golden Age) also uses nonlinear concepts. The revolutionary Russian filmmakers Sergei Eisenstein, Vsevolod Pudovkin, and Alexander Dovzhenko also experimented with the possibilities of nonlinearity. Eisenstein's Strike (1925) and Dovzhenko's Earth (1930) hint at a nonlinear experience.[7] English director Humphrey Jennings used a nonlinear approach in his World War II documentary Listen to Britain (1942).

Post-war
Jean-Luc Godard's work since 1959 was also important in the evolution of nonlinear film. Godard famously stated, "I agree that a film should have a beginning, a middle and an end but not necessarily in that order". Godard's Week End (French: Le weekend) (1968), as well as Andy Warhol's Chelsea Girls (1966), defy linear structure in exchange for a chronology of events that is seemingly random. Alain Resnais experimented with narrative and time in his films Hiroshima Mon Amour (1959), Last Year at Marienbad (1961), and Muriel (1963). Federico Fellini defined his own nonlinear cinema with the films La strada (1954), La dolce vita (1960), 8½ (1963), Satyricon (1969), and Roma (1972). Nicolas Roeg's films, including Performance (1968), Walkabout (1971), Don't Look Now (1973), The Man Who Fell to Earth (1976), and Bad Timing (1980) are characterized by a nonlinear approach. Other experimental nonlinear filmmakers include Michelangelo Antonioni, Peter Greenaway, Chris Marker, Agnès Varda, and Raúl Ruiz.

In the United States, Robert Altman carried the nonlinear motif in his films, including McCabe & Mrs. Miller (1971), Nashville (1975), The Player (1992), Short Cuts (1993), and Gosford Park (2001). Woody Allen embraced the experimental nature of nonlinear narrative in Annie Hall (1977), Interiors (1978), and Stardust Memories (1980).

1990s and 2000s
In the 1990s, Quentin Tarantino influenced a tremendous growth in nonlinear films with Pulp Fiction (1994).[6] Other important nonlinear films include Atom Egoyan's Exotica (1994), Terrence Malick's The Thin Red Line (1998), Paul Thomas Anderson's Magnolia (1999), and Karen and Jill Sprecher's Thirteen Conversations About One Thing (2001). David Lynch experimented with nonlinear narrative and surrealism in Lost Highway (1997), Mulholland Dr. (2001), and Inland Empire (2006).

Into the 2000s, some filmmakers have returned to the use of nonlinear narrative repeatedly. Steven Soderbergh in Schizopolis (1996), Out of Sight (1998), The Limey (1999), Full Frontal (2002), Solaris (2002), and Che (2008). Christopher Nolan in Following (1998), Memento (2001), and The Prestige (2006). Memento, with its fragmentation and reverse chronology, has been described as characteristic of moving towards postmodernism in contemporary cinema. Richard Linklater used nonlinear narrative in Slacker (1991), Waking Life (2001), and A Scanner Darkly (2006); Gus Van Sant in Elephant (2003), Last Days (2005), and Paranoid Park (2007). Hong Kong auteur Wong Kar-wai explored nonlinear storylines in the films Days of Being Wild (1991), Ashes of Time (1994), Chungking Express (1994), In the Mood for Love (2000), and 2046 (2004). Takashi Shimizu's Japanese horror series, Ju-on, brought to America as The Grudge, is also nonlinear in its storytelling.
post #300 of 601
I still don't buy it, and I think all those reference to Memento are using the term "non-linear" incorrectly. The storyline in Memento follows a straight line. The line is backwards, but it's linear. YMMV.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
AVS › AVS Forum › Other Areas of Interest › Movies, Concerts, and Music Discussion › The BEST Movies Nobody Has Heard Of?