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New DVDO iScan VP50 - Page 18

post #511 of 6314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh@dvdo View Post

I am not quite sure how we "slipped" to the end of the month, when the release date of the VP50 has always been September 06.

Eh...??

Ah...
post #512 of 6314
Well, that answers that.
post #513 of 6314
Thread Starter 
I think the September (20)06 was misinterpreted to mean the 6th of September.
post #514 of 6314
Well Josh, it is going to be September 10th on Sunday. So next week is considered mid September. So after next week we are going on the end of September. So that is why people are guessing the end of this month. Are you saying they will be out before then?
post #515 of 6314
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Well Josh, it is going to be September 10th on Sunday. So next week is considered mid September. So after next week we are going on the end of September. So that is why people are guessing the end of this month. Are you saying they will be out before then?

Actually we have "late" September before we go on to "end" of September.

Or did I hear it was going to be "Summer" 06, which puts us up to around the 22nd.

Come on, Josh. You've got to throw us a bone here.
post #516 of 6314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh@dvdo View Post

I think the September (20)06 was misinterpreted to mean the 6th of September.

When it really means the 20th of September '06.

- Collin
post #517 of 6314
It will be released when it's released.
post #518 of 6314
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

It will be released when it's released.

Are you sure? Do you have any details? Can you be more specific?...
post #519 of 6314
Thanks aaronwt we did not know that.
post #520 of 6314
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Well Josh, it is going to be September 10th on Sunday. So next week is considered mid September. So after next week we are going on the end of September. So that is why people are guessing the end of this month. Are you saying they will be out before then?

Actually, by my book "early September" is from the 1st to the 29th, "mid September" is from the 2nd to the 29th, and "late September" is the 30th to the 45th.
post #521 of 6314
I just picked up the new HR 20 DVR DirecTV and am very happy it has native resolution as a setting. Should go good with the VP50... Soon?
post #522 of 6314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh@dvdo View Post

Actually, by my book "early September" is from the 1st to the 29th, "mid September" is from the 2nd to the 29th, and "late September" is the 30th to the 45th.

Spoken like a true marketing guy!
post #523 of 6314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh@dvdo View Post

Actually, by my book "early September" is from the 1st to the 29th, "mid September" is from the 2nd to the 29th, and "late September" is the 30th to the 45th.

Josh--you've got too much time on your hands!

[But I have mine on order from AVS-- so the sooner the better!]
post #524 of 6314
OK Josh....so on Sept. 46th, can I write a bitchy post about DVDO here at AVS?
post #525 of 6314
"Oh do I remember the days in September when ...."

Josh. Quit dancing.

Do you remember that song?
post #526 of 6314
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I just picked up the new HR 20 DVR DirecTV and am very happy it has native resolution as a setting. Should go good with the VP50... Soon?

That is great news. I was getting so sick of having to change resolution on the HR 10 every time I switched from SD to HD. I will be getting the HR 20 as soon as it is available in my market. Hopefully I will get it around the same time as my VP50. Gettin both on the same day would be bliss.
post #527 of 6314
Quote:
Originally Posted by lorelevitt View Post

Josh--you've got too much time on your hands!

[But I have mine on order from AVS-- so the sooner the better!]


Of course he has to much time on his hands, his months are 45 days long.
"45 days has September, April, June, and November"
post #528 of 6314
Josh. Can you answer the question re any future plans for seperately adjustable sat and hue for each of R, G, and B. Also any plans for improving the already good scaling? Also 11 step gray scale adjustment?


All the rest have 46 except for February which has 43 (leap years 44). The real question is how many hours in each day?
post #529 of 6314
By adjustable hue do you mean that in the final processing stages the red content should be able to be bled slightly into the green and blue outputs, the green content should be able to be bled slightly into the red and blue outputs, etc?

For example if objects that are pure red signal looks orange-ish on the screen you want to be able to tweak things (the tint) towards purple to compensate? And tweak each color independently of each other color?

I suppose this could be done but it would require several additional menu settings which translate to dozens if not hundreds of permutations that an ISF expert would have to tweak using trial and error.

You would need something like 79 days in every month to get through a calibration.

As far as I know, separate red, green, and blue saturation controls are the existing red gain, green gain, and blue gain controls.
post #530 of 6314
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Josh. Can you answer the question re any future plans for seperately adjustable sat and hue for each of R, G, and B. Also any plans for improving the already good scaling? Also 11 step gray scale adjustment?

What you really want is the ability to control R,G,B gains at multiple points across the grayscale. This will allow you to converge the guns to create a sensible grayscale. Traditional sets give you RGB (sometimes just RB) gains (hi) & cuts (lo) and this is sufficient to balance a grayscale, but the more points the better the calibration.

Then what you want is the ability to restrict the color gamut to a standard within the native color gamut of your set. The primary choices of projector and display manufacturers is often quite divergent from the standards. Samsung DLPs (my current display of choice) and a few others allow you to enter the xyY coordinates for the set's native primaries and then the coordinates for your desired gamut (709 HD or 601 SD for instance). The set will then create psuedo primaries that exactly match the standards. It's awesome. With a good calibration you can achieve perfect colorimetry. It would be great to see an iScan do something like this.

Similarly one thing the DVDO scalars do not yet do is compensate for primary differences in the sources. SD and HD have different color gamuts and it would be super cool if the VP50 could twist SD to the HD gamut. It sounds like the Lumagen boxes can do this. It's a very minor difference admittedly, but eventually it will be demanded by us videophile sorts, particularly as more things get mastered in the HD gamut (much HD is still mastered in the SD gamut).

Finally, I am all for more calibration options in the video processors, but if the processors are asked to do too much we end up harming the image due to only having 8 to 10 bits per channel going to the set. Say you need to lower the B component of an 8 bit RGB signal by half, you've reduced the possible steps in that channel from 255 to 128. This is likely to produce unavoidable false contoring affects and other problems. Folks are speculating that it won't be until we get 14 bits or greater per channel that we'll really be able to do serious calibration in an outboard device.

- Collin
post #531 of 6314
Great post. Thanks
post #532 of 6314
To illustrate what I'm talking about with primary calibration, I dug up a ColorFacts CIE graph from one of the times I calibrated my set. The outer white triangle with the colored points shows the native color gamut of my Samsung HLP. The inner black triangle is the ideal 601 SD gamut. The grayish points on the 601 triangle are the measured primaries and secondaries of my set after calibration using Samsung's pseudo primary technology (CCA).

You will notice, that the native red and blue are off a bit from the standard (pretty close to the HD standard actually), but look at how far out the native green is from the standard. This makes grass on a football field look cool and sells TVs, but it's hardly accurate.

Also notice how close to the standard the calibrated gray/white dots are. This sort of gamut constriction technology would rock in a processor since most people's sets cannot be calibrated to this level.

- Collin
LL
post #533 of 6314
Quote:
Originally Posted by collinp View Post

Similarly one thing the DVDO scalars do not yet do is compensate for primary differences in the sources. SD and HD have different color gamuts and it would be super cool if the VP50 could twist SD to the HD gamut. It sounds like the Lumagen boxes can do this. It's a very minor difference admittedly, but eventually it will be demanded by us videophile sorts, particularly as more things get mastered in the HD gamut (much HD is still mastered in the SD gamut).

I may be wrong about the Lumagen's ability to do this. If I understand their materials correctly (they're not 100% clear) they do not twist between SD & HD primaries, but they do support assigning the analog YPbPr input to be either 601 or 709 encoded. This is another difference in the HD & SD specs that involves how RGB is converted to YPbPr. This is important because some upconverting sources output HD resolutions incorrectly encoded as SD YPbPr. If this signal is then interpreted as HD YPbPr the colors can get slightly but noticeably messed up (green depression mainly). Correcting for this would be another nice feature, thought probably not that important since most people would be using the iScan for upconversion and not need to correct for buggy upconverted sources.

- Collin
post #534 of 6314
Quote:
Originally Posted by collinp View Post

What you really want is the ability to control R,G,B gains at multiple points across the grayscale. This will allow you to converge the guns to create a sensible grayscale. Traditional sets give you RGB (sometimes just RB) gains (hi) & cuts (lo) and this is sufficient to balance a grayscale, but the more points the better the calibration.

The Lumagens do this over an 11-point scale -- and have a neat trick where they report the IRE of the center of the screen, for when you have the DVE DVD's black screen with grayscale boxes in the center. Each one of their 11 steps is from 0 IRE through 100 IRE, and you adjust RGB so that IRE on screen is same as source.

Crystalio 2 does the same thing over a 20-point scale.

Another neat color feature on Lumagens is hue & saturation correction for red & green push -- and the simple way it works by simply removing color channels when configuring, removes the need for colored filters to peep through.

DVDO are moving in this direction with their independent gammas for Red, Green and Blue -- but multiple point parametric grayscale and color push fix would be awesome addition to functionality.

Saying that, DVDO's approach is probably the best for 99% of users -- and sounds really easy to configure.

StooMonster
post #535 of 6314
Ordered my VP50 Today.....Whooya!

I was told the VP50's will ship at the end of September, so we all have to sit tight. Anybody ordering SDI??

Jaime
post #536 of 6314
Quote:
Originally Posted by StooMonster View Post

DVDO are moving in this direction with their independent gammas for Red, Green and Blue -- but multiple point parametric grayscale and color push fix would be awesome addition to functionality.

Saying that, DVDO's approach is probably the best for 99% of users -- and sounds really easy to configure.

StooMonster

DVDO, is also including 1024 point (10 bit) RGB correction in the VP50

Output Controls -
Output Resolution, Sync Type, Colorspace (RGB or YPbPr/YCbCr), Frame Lock, Gamma (R/G/B and up to 1024 point Gamma individual RGB correction), Display Profiles (10)
post #537 of 6314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmartin View Post

Anybody ordering SDI??

I guess most with SDI sources already had an older iScan with SDI. So we can rip the SDI card out of the old iScan and move it over to the VP50.
post #538 of 6314
Yes for SDI. I also have an SDI to HDMI converter.
post #539 of 6314
I just hope the end of September does not turn into mid October...
post #540 of 6314
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I just hope the end of September does not turn into mid October...

or November...
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