Focal 1007 Be or B&W 803S? - Page 2

So is Rotel, they are all owned by B&W.

Cheers,

i have posted this before re importance of matching speakers:


for your info (from dominic baker, the design engineer of utopia series):

"if your front speakers have 24db/octave slopes to get the sound clean, and your center channel has an 18db/octave slop (because it looks like a d'appolito on its side, and everyone knows 18db works best in d'appolito configurations), and your rear channels have a first-order crossover (most do because it costs less, and companies know that no-one wants to pay much for surround channels because they don't do much), the result is that you end up with a fundamental phase problem that guarantees the system will never "work" no matter how carefully you position the speakers or play around with your receiver's controls.

and you will find that we say you should not mix speakers from the cobalt range with those from the chorus range in the same system and expect a good result. but if you mix speakers from within one of our ranges, you will be amazed. put any five chorus models in a system and it will work straight away. why? because all chorus models have the same tweeter, the same midrange, the same crossover point and the same filter slopes."

I distinctly believe this is untrue, unless it it was purchased recently. Last I checked, Rotel and B&W have mutual distribution rights and act as a team, but it is a partnership, not an ownership.

Also, being owned by the same company doesn't make anything a better match for the other unless there are unique design attributes specifically for that purpose. No one went around saying Classe was good for B&W (except maybe me) until B&W bought them and "suddenly" Classe was "made for B&W" or whatever

Besides, since some B&Ws are warm and some are bright, which speaker is the Classe designed to sound good on? Can't be all of them!

You really have very little faith in people to make up their own mind. At best, all anyone is doing is informing and I think there's a lot of agreement all the way around about the plusses and minuses of each choice and a lot of good info.

To be honest, I'd be back and forth between systems because, while I like the snappy detailed sound of the JMlabs, the B&W system's obvious warmth may be a whole lot more palatable for HT. There. I said it. B&W makes good HT speakers

same reasoning as mark levinson and revel both under harman group do not claim synergy

[quote=CriPPleR_HD

Some more info that might help:

Whatever speakers I do end up with will be powered by a $2,500 amp. If something for a slightly higher price sounds much better, I might be able to convince my wife that we need to spend $3,000. The only thing I know of in that price range is Adcom GFR 700, Arcam 700, Newcastle, and I think Rotel. I know this is not the right forum for amps so I will save my questions about those brands for the amp section.

Sub budget is a firm $2,100 and I don't know what type of sub to look for. My dealer said I need to get something musical for the 1027be but I won't be using the sub for 2ch stereo if I get the 1027be or 803D. Should I be looking into subs made by the same company as the speaker manufacture? (B&W, Focal, NHT) or should I be looking at subs like SVS or Velodyne?

Thanks![/QUOTE]
Given those choices I think that Arcam followed by Rotel is what I would look at. As far a sub goes, The JM Electra sub 1000Be will be more than that budget. If you will NOT use it for music and only HT I would suggest looking at HSU, SVS, and Velodyne. Also ACI speakers might be an option.
http://www.audioc.com/speakers1/spea...#acisubwoofers

For 150 more dollars then your budget you could get the new Maestro. It should be killer. Or you could spend $1100-$2200 and get one or two Titan XL's.

Yeah, B&W, ROTEL, and Classe are all distributed in the US by the same company Equity International. Thats about it.

Classe is owned by B&W , but Rotel is just part of the shared distrobution org, but they do lend each other massive amounts of equipment for voicing etc, and they share engineering info and resources as well.

One of the reasons we rely on Forums , is that there are many instances where "You" can not audition the equipment you are looking for, and therefore have to rely on those that you have somehow come to trust on the Forums you frequent.

The Focal Pro line, is one of those instances where it is extremely difficult to find the speakers, they are meant for the custom install market, as well as the Movie/recording studio market. As such they are extremely precise, marketed for near field listening, but I have seen them installed for just HT applications , which I have as well.

If you can't audition them before you buy , I would you recommend you limit your choices to those you can have first hand experiance with, or buy several sets for simultanious in-home comparisons.


Truth is, they recommend based on their ears, opinions, biases, brains, wallets, eyes,and attitudes. and are incredibly good at convincing themselves that everything they say is based soley on a perfect ear and SQ. - o.k., I WAS BEING ABSURD TO DRIVE THE POINT HOME, but never-the-less, you owe it to yourself to audition comparitively.

I have to agree that listening for yourself is a must. You can ask questions. And we can answer them as best as we can without letting our own preference get in the way. But just because I like JM Labs or Monitor Audio or anything else does not mean that you will. Your best bet is to use this as a guide. Not hard fast rules. There is plenty of gear that I would like to consider at times but unless I could audition what ever it is, what ever it was would not make it on my short list.

Hi Crippler,

who is the dealer for Focal you are visiting. I am wondering what are the prices these guys are offering for the focal 1000 BE. Mind sharing those details. And btw, how abt NHT Ultimate XD pricing.. cheers.

Honestly, I would save up until you have enough for one of the first two speakers. I currently own the 802Ds, but I know the Focals are excellent sounding speakers as well. I don't think you would be unhappy with either one, but I wouldn't get a lesser speaker at this point. It is worth waiting for the better speakers IMO. In the scheme of things, e.g. building your own house, decorating the house, and buying new furniture, spending a little extra on the speakers, or saving to do so really is a drop in the bucket compared to the other expenses. If you must, go without something else in the house and get the better speakers, or else you will regret it later on... I hope that helps.

Thankfully even though I bought B&W 703s, 705s and an HTM7, despite liking the 802Ds better, my dealer was kind enough to let me trade them in at no loss for the 802Ds a few months later.

Again, I would buy one of the front speakers you listed (or even higher, like perhaps an 802D or the equivalent Focal if your space allows for it - or at least demo it, the marlin head and diamond tweeter combo is hot) and save up for the surround speakers later... You can't go wrong by buying the best left and right channel speakers that are not too large for your space (likewise, make sure that whatever you buy isn't too small for your space either!)

As far as B&W vs. Focal, it is really up to you. I wouldn't let anyone make that decision for you. I love my 802Ds, but you might not like the sound as much as another brand's sound at an equivalent price level. Don't let anyone tell you what sound you like better. Though, do be wary that if you pick a speaker that adds a lot of its own flavor to the music signal, that you are picking it with the knowledge that you don't mind the integrity of the signal being compromised for your enjoyment.

I'm not sure about matching with the Focals, but I am using the Bryston 9B SST currently for my B&W 802Ds and it sounds excellent. Next week I'll be receiving my Ayre MX-R monoblocks, the rest of my gear is Ayre, and so far I love their equipment in my setup.

BTW, there is no HTM3D, so you would have to get the HTM2D or HTM1D to match your front speakers the best. If you go with the HTM2D it is built to match the 803D. The HTM1D is built to match the 802D and up.

To power my JM's I am using Bryston amps. A 4b-ST and a 5b-ST and I have had great results. I have heard JM's with BAT and was pleased with the sound as well.

I don't know if they took Heterodyne into account when they considered the inaudible range as not being useful, but I would hope they did.

For the record, there is nothing wrong with the midrange on my B&W 802D.

The NHT "Ultimate" 6.3 system with matching surround preamp, 15 channels and 3300W of amplification, 6 SHARC processors, cables, stands, etc would be $20,800. You can do 7-channel, but because of the system configuration, it's much more cost effective to do 2, 4 or 6 channels.

I noticed on the first page you wanted speakers that are good for music and movies. IMHO the JM 1027's are great for both. Movie soundtracks can sound great. And music also is very well reproduced.
Here is what I briefly said in another thread
Well the bass is very very good. It can go insanely low in my room(with a tweak ). But it is clean. Second vocals seem very natural to me. It is great on acoustic and electric music. From jazz to blues to hard rock I always have a smile on my face. Even though my room is not set up for 2ch only, they image very well. But the ultimate is those highs. There are just soooo good. Very natural. Never harsh or fatiguing.

I had the 927's and there is no contest. Not even broken in I could tell that these were on another level. They just simply give you what is on the disk. And on Hi-Rez audio, they are just insane. I have a buddy guy SACD. When I put it on I almost fell out of my chair. Are you using a pair of them for surrounds as well? If so, why not check out the Electra Be surround? I think it is the SR1000Be. I have not heard them, but I have seen documentation on them and they look incredible.

Any speakers that are great with two channel material are going to be even better for HT. The more speakers you have the better the sound is when compared to listening to just one speaker (less audible distortion because of how the sound waves interact, if I am remembering it correctly from reading David Moulton's Total Recording.) So speakers built specifically for HT can cut corners on the assumption that you will be using 5 or more speakers that will cancel out some of the weaknesses of the speakers. If you switch to two channel with those speakers they might not sound as good as speakers built specifically for two channel listening in the a similar price range.

I apologize if I am a little off on the material from David Moulton's book, it has been almost a year since I read it...

I'll remember that the next time you go on an ancillary upgrade path because your speakers are so revealing of the source gear

With three, no four provisos, however.

1. In HT, it's important to truly match all the speakers (drivers, dispersion, FR, phase, etc) and some products/brands make that difficult or impossible.
2. In HT, it's important that the speakers blend well with a sub and most products are designed for use *without* a sub.
3. In HT, it's more important to have massive dynamic range and maintain low distortion during loud passages.
4. In HT, it's important to have wide dispersion in order to have a convincing blend between all the speakers and a wide sweetspot.

I've heard many systems that sound great on music and fall flat on movies because they aren't well matched. I've heard many systems that sound great on movies, but not on music because they are matched but aren't terribly accurate.

I would go on audiogon and look for Revel Ultima Sub 30 or the Revel B15. You could get a new or used one of the B15 or Sub 30 at a reasonable price (though a little higher than the exact price you are looking to pay). I'm currently using two of the sub 30s (in stereo hookup) with my 802Ds. They have built in parametric equalization and come with a simple to use computer program to help you set up the sub and find the right parameters for equalization. My signal is almost flat all the way from 20Hz to the crossover (and even further than that!) thanks to the built in parametric EQ. Huge bass bumps that were in the frequency response before hand in the subwoofer's range are now gone.

You could probably find a B15 (make sure it is one of the newer ones) used in the budget range you are looking to spend - or a new one if you are willing to spend a little bit over your range. You also might be able to find a custom sub 30 (without the unnecessary panels on the sides, etc) for a little over the range you are looking in. It is worth the extra money IMO since the sub is highly musical and the parametric EQ allows you to integrate it well with any other speakers you are using (they also have a switch for film and music - so you can set it up optimally in music mode, and when you want to watch films you switch over to film mode where it accentuates the lower bass region more). These two subs are what the acoustical engineer who designed my room recommended, and he was right on spot with how well they work in my system.

I thought they were quite mediocre, though some people are *very* passionate about them. They cost almost $10K, but I thought they sounded more like $2500, $5K max, and that was on movies. They would be decent for an all movie system in a very large room though.

Thankfully I don't need to. Kal Rubinson (on Audiogon) saved me from doing so endlessly when he recommended that I fix the room itself. I hired Rives Audio and have done a good amount of room treatment and speaker positioning adjustments. My room isn't finished yet, but my speakers now sound better than the Wilson Watt Puppy 7s I once coveted, IMO. The room treatments (703 Owens Corning) and speaker positioning made an unbelievable difference. Any speaker would have sounded bad in my room the way I had it set up previously.

What are the dimensions of your listening room, length x width x height (approx.)?