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CD/DVD-A/SACD players

post #1 of 89
8/19/06 at 12:33pm
Thread Starter 
Could someone provide a recommendation for a good "universal" player for redbook CD, DVD-A, and SACD under $1000? Taking into account video is not important...

Thanks in advance!
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post #2 of 89
8/19/06 at 12:59pm
oppo 970hd 149.00
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post #3 of 89
8/19/06 at 3:05pm
For around a hundred (plus twenty to thirty) - Pioneer 588A. For under a thousand? Just about any.
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post #4 of 89
8/19/06 at 3:09pm
Thread Starter 
Think the audio is as good as denon 1920/2910 or pioneer 59AVi?
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post #5 of 89
8/19/06 at 3:26pm
The 588A is fine for me. Really depends on how well you can tell the difference. The Denon's get great reviews & recommendations from others in the forum, priced higher though. Pioneer gets good reviews and recommendations.
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post #6 of 89
8/19/06 at 6:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rakster View Post

Think the audio is as good as denon 1920/2910 or pioneer 59AVi?

did you even bother to look at the audio reviews on the oppo? might open your eyes and ears
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post #7 of 89
8/19/06 at 8:48pm
Thread Starter 
Monsteraudio, if you're talking Oppo 970, please point me in the direction of a great review. I've not seen one. Seems like the 971 is the better product, minus SACD.

Anyway, don't you have the Denon??

Check this out on the 2930:

http://www.hometheaterblog.com/homet...dvd2930ci.html
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post #8 of 89
8/19/06 at 10:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rakster View Post

Could someone provide a recommendation for a good "universal" player for redbook CD, DVD-A, and SACD under $1000? Taking into account video is not important...

Thanks in advance!

Entry level player contain inferior parts, inferior design as well as inferior power supplie stage and in case of SACD lack a dedicated DSD chip. Spend more and get more. The main issue at lower price is SACD in particular lesser players dont offer either bass management on SACD or time delay.


You definitely should look at Denon 2910, 3910 both currently being phased out and the latter has full bass management for both SACD and DVD-A plus time delay so its worth the price over 2910. Top of the line MArantz is also good. Or you could get two players instead of one. For example I chose for SACD/CD the Sony NS999ES used for less than $500 cheap because it does not have HDMI (its a sonic deadringer to current 9100es retailing for $1300 with HDMI). Build quality on Sony is excellent as is SACD playback (Sony does SACD better than most if not all). All Sony ES models do SACD quite well so you could couple with another excellent DVD-A player in the Rotel RDV 1050 or 1060 for example for a killer combo.
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post #9 of 89
8/19/06 at 11:03pm
http://www.audaud.com/article.php?Ar...970HDDVDp3.php, not saying its the best but for 149.00, hell I would have just sold you my 2910 it went for 415.00 on fleabay, soundwise I can't compare the 2(all different components now)there just never materialized the media I thought would come out on SACD, picture to me is better on the oppo to me, LISTEN TO APODACA he seems to be into the sacd"s more, sorry if I came off harsh
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post #10 of 89
8/21/06 at 1:13am
The Pioneer 59AVi gets my recommendation.
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post #11 of 89
8/21/06 at 8:33am
The Onkyo DV-SP1000 is a very good example of a player with high-quality audio in all of the supported formats (cd, dvd-audio, sacd). While it generally lists for more than your budgeted amount, you can sometimes find it for ~$1400 or so new.
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post #12 of 89
8/22/06 at 8:41pm
I've got the Pioneer 79avi, and even though it's an awesome DVD player, I use it almost exclusively for DVD-A and SACD.

You can find it pretty cheap these days too, just look around the forums.

Just my 2 cents...
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post #13 of 89
9/3/06 at 8:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by apodaca View Post

Entry level player contain inferior parts, inferior design as well as inferior power supplie stage and in case of SACD lack a dedicated DSD chip. Spend more and get more. The main issue at lower price is SACD in particular lesser players dont offer either bass management on SACD or time delay.


You definitely should look at Denon 2910, 3910 both currently being phased out and the latter has full bass management for both SACD and DVD-A plus time delay so its worth the price over 2910. Top of the line MArantz is also good. Or you could get two players instead of one. For example I chose for SACD/CD the Sony NS999ES used for less than $500 cheap because it does not have HDMI (its a sonic deadringer to current 9100es retailing for $1300 with HDMI). Build quality on Sony is excellent as is SACD playback (Sony does SACD better than most if not all). All Sony ES models do SACD quite well so you could couple with another excellent DVD-A player in the Rotel RDV 1050 or 1060 for example for a killer combo.


Do any of the above players do DSD bass management and time delay, without converting to PCM?

Thanks
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post #14 of 89
9/4/06 at 12:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by locomo View Post

Do any of the above players do DSD bass management and time delay, without converting to PCM?

Thanks


I know the Sony ES series players do for sure. You would need to check on the Denon 3910 player.
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post #15 of 89
9/4/06 at 10:29pm
I don't know any player that do time aligment in DSD domain.I wonder if Sony ever presented a white paper on this.
The DEnon 3910 will convert to PCM if the BM and TA features are engaged, same goes for the 5900, 5910, 2910, 2930,3930.
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post #16 of 89
9/5/06 at 9:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehun View Post

I don't know any player that do time aligment in DSD domain.I wonder if Sony ever presented a white paper on this.
The DEnon 3910 will convert to PCM if the BM and TA features are engaged, same goes for the 5900, 5910, 2910, 2930,3930.


In the technical paper for the DVP-NC555ES which is one generation old DVD player it mentions a dedicated chip (CXD9722) 'a one bit digital signal processor LSI' - if its one bit it must be in the DSD domain.

ES tech paper
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post #17 of 89
9/6/06 at 1:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by apodaca View Post

In the technical paper for the DVP-NC555ES which is one generation old DVD player it mentions a dedicated chip (CXD9722) 'a one bit digital signal processor LSI' - if its one bit it must be in the DSD domain.

ES tech paper

That's the same chip pretty much everyone uses, and certainly by Denon too, however it seems implementation varries on some users.
There is a mention of that chip on this page.
Look under " difficulties in processing".

http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/...d-a/index.html
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post #18 of 89
9/7/06 at 11:08pm
That particular model is two generations old. In the 999ES which follows it there is time delay alongside bass management and again based on the technical paper it is clear they refer to the chip as a 1 bit DSP. At any rate, not many people do SACD like Sony and certainly not at their same price level.

All of their lesser player now offer bass management and time delay but they lack the 1 bit DSP chip as well the dedicated DSD decoding chip. It is these lesser players that convert the signal to PCM and then post process.
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post #19 of 89
9/8/06 at 8:06am
1,That's not a technical paper per se, but a "consumer brochure"
2,The plyer is unimportant, it uses the same chip you referenced.
3,All high end Denon, and Marantz players use that chip, which in many case called "second generation" by them. Sony simply haven't been interested on SACD for a while, but won't let anyone else have a patent either.
4, Denon use a separate DSP chip for BM and TA because it gives a much more flexibabilty, and versatile options, but it works in a much more DSP friendly PCM domain, so it will requires conversion.
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post #20 of 89
9/8/06 at 11:40am
Oppo? Pioneer 588?

You guys are deluded if you think that the analog output of either of those players is as good as the players in the $1k+ range....because it's not.

EVERY player that's not a Sony converts DSD to PCM for processing. I doubt the conversion in a decent player has much of an effect on sound quality....certainly less of an effect than not using delay or bass management!

By all accounts, the Denon, Marantz, Onkyo, and Pioneer players in that price range are all excellent sources for DVD-A/SACD. Hell, my 3-year old Denon 2900 has excellent sound and can be picked up for $400.
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post #21 of 89
9/8/06 at 12:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rynberg View Post

Oppo? Pioneer 588?

You guys are deluded if you think that the analog output of either of those players is as good as the players in the $1k+ range....because it's not.

EVERY player that's not a Sony converts DSD to PCM for processing. I doubt the conversion in a decent player has much of an effect on sound quality....certainly less of an effect than not using delay or bass management!

You are comparing $150.00 players to $1K players? For the difference in price, the $1K players better be much improved over the lower cost players.

As for DSD to PCM conversions, I've read that both Samsung and Toshiba are "true DSD" machines with no such conversion.
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post #22 of 89
9/8/06 at 1:19pm
Cambridge Audio
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post #23 of 89
9/8/06 at 7:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ematcion View Post

You are comparing $150.00 players to $1K players? For the difference in price, the $1K players better be much improved over the lower cost players.

The OP asked for good players with a $1k budget. Several people jumped in with the Oppo and Pio 588 recommendations. I pointed out the silliness of those recommendations. Thanks for agreeing with me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ematcion View Post

As for DSD to PCM conversions, I've read that both Samsung and Toshiba are "true DSD" machines with no such conversion.

Nope. They may output "true DSD", but once bass management is used, they convert it to PCM. Just like EVERY other non-Sony player.
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post #24 of 89
9/9/06 at 8:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rynberg View Post

Oppo? Pioneer 588?

You guys are deluded if you think that the analog output of either of those players is as good as the players in the $1k+ range....because it's not.

In reality, price is more a yardstick for determining value than quality. Consumers generally associate certain brands with quality and willingly play into the pricing order established by those brands. Luckily, there are testers out there who actually determine quality without prejudice to price or brand.

DVD Benchmark

Unless someone can prove these testers are fake or paid off, one has to conlcude that OPPO makes some fine DVD players and for very little money. Would I pay hundreds more just to get a name brand? Not likely.
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post #25 of 89
9/9/06 at 9:06am
I'm pretty happy with the Yamaha S657 I picked up yesterday. Seems like a solid, no-frills player. Haven't played many SACD's yet, but the two I played sounded really good to my ears.
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post #26 of 89
9/9/06 at 11:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by isomdh View Post

In reality, price is more a yardstick for determining value than quality.

To some extent, yes. I am certainly not in the camp that believes "if it costs more, it must be better". However, it is not inexpensive to design a quality analog output and if you think the Oppo and Pio 588 players have as good an analog audio output section as the better players in the $1k range, well, you are deluded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by isomdh View Post

DVD Benchmark

Unless someone can prove these testers are fake or paid off, one has to conlcude that OPPO makes some fine DVD players and for very little money. Would I pay hundreds more just to get a name brand? Not likely.

The DVD Benchmark is for VIDEO. What is this thread about? ANALOG AUDIO. Besides, Kris Deering never meant for the DVD Benchmark single number rating to encompass the entire performance of a player. Kris has repeatedly stated that the best images he has seen are from the Onkyo/Denon players at 2k+. Guess what Kris's reference player is? Hint, it's not an Oppo.

The Oppo is a fantastic VALUE, but there are better players and they do cost more.
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post #27 of 89
9/9/06 at 11:53am
Initially I thought the $1000 may have been a typo. Apparently not. Sorry I even brought up the 588A.
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post #28 of 89
9/9/06 at 4:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rynberg View Post

To some extent, yes. I am certainly not in the camp that believes "if it costs more, it must be better". However, it is not inexpensive to design a quality analog output and if you think the Oppo and Pio 588 players have as good an analog audio output section as the better players in the $1k range, well, you are deluded.

While no one has claimed OPPO is better than more expensive players, reviews do suggest OPPO players might in fact be better than some. To me, that is very significant because the object of research like this is precisely to find the equipment with best performance/price ratio. OPPO costs around $150. Do I get a machine that is 6 times better by spending 6 times as much? I doubt that.
Quote:


The DVD Benchmark is for VIDEO. What is this thread about? ANALOG AUDIO. Besides, Kris Deering never meant for the DVDBenchmark single number rating to encompass the entire performance of a player. Kris has repeatedly stated that the best images he has seen are from the Onkyo/Denon players at 2k+. Guess what Kris's reference player is? Hint, it's not an Oppo.

The Oppo is a fantastic VALUE, but there are better players and they do cost more.

Maybe it's just me, but to think "ANALOG AUDIO" is the overriding factor in deciding on a DVD player is just outright silly. The rating for OPPO only suggests that it is a well-rounded player with few faults. If those $2k+ models were so good, why did they not have the same top ratings? And OPPO's rating also suggests its image is not 12 times worse than the expensive Onkyo/Denon players. One could say OPPO is close but no cigar. For $150, I'd have plenty leftover to buy me some real Cubans.
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post #29 of 89
9/9/06 at 6:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rynberg View Post

Oppo? Pioneer 588?

You guys are deluded if you think that the analog output of either of those players is as good as the players in the $1k+ range....because it's not.

EVERY player that's not a Sony converts DSD to PCM for processing. I doubt the conversion in a decent player has much of an effect on sound quality....certainly less of an effect than not using delay or bass management!

By all accounts, the Denon, Marantz, Onkyo, and Pioneer players in that price range are all excellent sources for DVD-A/SACD. Hell, my 3-year old Denon 2900 has excellent sound and can be picked up for $400.

My Oppo,970 sound very close if not identical to the Denon 2900, which I also own. The 2900 supposedly didn't convert DSD to PCM according to Denon at the time. Denon cost 6 times as much when it was new in 2003. Go figure!
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post #30 of 89
9/9/06 at 6:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by isomdh View Post

Maybe it's just me, but to think "ANALOG AUDIO" is the overriding factor in deciding on a DVD player is just outright silly.

Gee, maybe you should reread the OP's first post....

Quote:


Could someone provide a recommendation for a good "universal" player for redbook CD, DVD-A, and SACD under $1000? Taking into account video is not important...
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