The Official Yamaha RX-V1700/RX-V2700 Thread - Page 111

No, it doesn't, but you can still play them. You just need a player that does the decoding and passes PCM through HDMI. Then you can still listen to the new HD formats. The PS3 will do this fine. So now you have go get a HD Player instead of the 1800.

Chris

Right! and the 1800 loses the USB input. I noticed that the older 659 uses Burr-Brown DAC's, the 2700 does not, the 1800 does. Do you know if BB makes a big difference in sound quality? Audioholics review of the 659 seemed to nod in this direction. But of course the 659 has not HDMI.

Can someone tell me, with the 2700, can you set the HDMI output to be pass thru without doing any conversion'? I already have 2 HDMI inputs on my 1080p TV and so do my sources (they put out 1080p too). And if I didn't for some reason, want to connect my AVR's video output to the TV, can I do all of the setups using just the display on the AVR?

Yes, you can set her up to pass through.

The 2700 has Burr-Browns, and much more, quote from review:

"RX-V2700 employs the Digital ToP-ART concept and High Current Amplification to maximize sound quality. Custom-made 18000uF block capacitors, low-jitter PLL circuitry, Burr-Brown 192kHz/24bit DACs and Schottky barrier diodes are examples of the top quality parts used in RX-V2700. Pure Direct mode on both models can be activated to prevent unnecessary noise interference from internal components, including display circuitry, when pure sound listening is required."
http://uk.gizmodo.com/2006/08/09/yam...v1700_hdm.html

Don't you try to drag my baby down in the dirt, she aint no floozie, she a lady

Oh, and SACD and 7.1 TrueHD (Daddy's Little Girls) decoded in the PS3 and transmitted in 48kHz 7.1 MPCM sounds fabulous via HDMI. Who cares where the decoding, no signal degradation in the all-or-nuttin' bit stream.

Regardless of which AVR you go with, go ahead and blame me!

I think we covered this, no? I'm guessing you would need HDMI 1.3 to get the newer HD audio fomats. The 2700 is only at 1.2.

What two "sources" do you have both puting out 1080P? I thought you were waiting out the HD/Bluray war? *confused*

Yes, the OSM allows you to turn on or off upconversion and/or deinterlacing.

Few things to remember about the upconverting and deinterlacing.

1. HDMI inputs are ALL passthrough to HDMI, no video processing
2. the video processing in the 2700 is mediocre at best
3. 1080p passthrough may or may not work. There are posted issues of problems with 1080p passthrough in this 2700 forum

I'm not aware of doing advanced menu ops without a video hookup. If you are not going to connect to a TV then you need an AR not an AVR. There are three video outs on the 2700 (HDMI, Component, S-Video). For setup purposes you could temporarily hook up a simple computer monitor via S-Video.

One other thing to keep in mind. Using a unit like a 2700 as your audio/video HUB makes things very convenient. i.e. sending one HDMI cable to your tv for all audio/video needs. But when you do this you now must have your 2700 on WHENEVER you wish to watch tv. Let's face it, most of us are mostly still watching analog cable feeds. Do we really need to power up a 140Wx7 unit to watch re-runs of Mork & Mindy?

My point is, no matter what AVR you get, you may still want to run a second AV feed to your tv bypassing the AVR.

Thanks for all the info and hand holding. To correct some of my statements, I do not have anything that puts out native 1080p. I have a MITS65 1080p TV, DTV HR20-700 and a Tosh DR-400 upconverting DVD-R.

About HDMI, I am confused. I read that all current HD players do their own decoding, so you don't need the new codecs on the receiver. Can someone tell me if this is true, do you need an HDMI cable at all to send the Dolby True HD/DTS HD to the receiver? Does this have to go down an HDMI 1.2A or will an optical cable do the job?

If that's the case I would just get an old 659 which has the same audio quality I believe as the 2700. Whenever I get an HD player, I would use the Optical out to get the uncompressed HD sound? BOBPAULE: Yamaha's site does not mention the BB DAC's for the 2700, they do for the 659 and the 1800 (perhaps oversight).

If I get the 659, I would have to switch to the S-video input to do the menus or have a small monitor.

If I get the 2700, I would have all the conveniences of cabling you mentioned and I don't have to switch inputs to see the menu if I route my video processors outputs to HDMI inputs? Right? But then I wouldn't want to do any processing of the video in the 2700. I would prefer to have it just passthru.

I'd check on the optical out doing HD audio processing. I thought such HD audio was limited to only HDMI. I think you would get audio out via optical, but I believe it will downconvert the audio to PCM or DTS. Maybe others in here will know for sure.

You keep mentioning "HDMI video processing". The 2700 does not, in any way, process or alter any HDMI video input. All HDMI video input is passthrough to HDMI video out only.

Any of the four video outs (HDMI, Composite, Component, S-Video) will render the 2700's OSM. If you wish to not use the HDMI in/out you could simply run a seperate composite or component or S-Video cable to your TV as an additional TV input. Then you will have full OSM access whenever you needed it by simply selecting a different input source from your TV's remote.

Toby: I read on some site that what might happen is that the HD player mfrers, in order to lower their prices might leave out the decoder so you'd be forced to buy a receiver than can handle it. I somehow don't think that will happen because people (like me) have only recently started migrating to HiDef and I would want to be back compatible as much as I can.

I also read through the 2700 manual and cleared up my confusion about HDMI in (the passthru).

Can I ask what AVR you had before the 2700? And did you check out any of the Onkyo's?

Again, I'm not the best to ask regarding HD video or audio as I have no experience with it. But here is what makes sense to me: ex1: Yes the HD player will decode the TrueHD audio, but if your AVR does not have codecs for TrueHD audio, then I'm guessing the AVR will decode it to something it can handle. The end result is you are NOT getting the benefits of TrueHD audio. ex2: I'm going to assume your tv is probably HDMI 1.2, you feed it an HD/Bluray video source that has all the "future" video enhancements available with HDMI 1.3. Will your HDMI 1.2 tv render an HD image? Sure. Will your HDMI 1.2 tv render all of the HDMI 1.3 video enhancements? No, it can't.

Another way to look at it: If I'm playing a DVD with Dolby ProLogic into a receiver that only has standard Dolby, will I hear surround? Sure. Will I hear the benefits of ProLogic surround? No, the receiver is not capable of understanding the ProLigic codec.

It's like listening to FM radio on a single speaker portable radio. Will you hear the output? Sure. Will it be in FM stereo? Of course not.

The 2700 is my third Yamaha receiver. I've only ever had Yamaha, no experience with Onkyo. My previous Yamaha was an RX-V730.

I think you don't need the HD decoding on the receiver end, as long as the source has it. You'll need HDMI (possibly 1.2a) to receive it. HDMI 1.3 supposedly fixes the lip sync problems that you might have noticed with some sources and also provides the enhanced 'deep color'.I spent hours looking at TV's before I finally selected the MITS DLP set because it was the best bang for the buck. When I'm in a B.buy and look at the Bravias etc. yes they seem brighter and better than the MITS but when I get home and am watching some HD programming I am absolutely satisfied with the pic. Anyway, I've got to pick either the 659 or the 2700. I like the presence speakers (they used to call them 'effects'). My room is wired with 2 Polk monitors in the ceiling corners (they have a right angle so fit well) and on the floor I have a couple of SDA-2's closer in than the effects.

Here's a link I found that might be of some use http://www.avtruths.com/uncompressed.html

http://www.dtsonline.com/dts-hd/dtsh...g-receiver.php

This site states that if you have DTS-HD audio decoder on your player, you can use the HDMI on a Y2700 or the multichannel input (yes more cables) on a Y659 and enjoy sound identical to the original. Any comments?

Very simple, decoding can occur in the source player or in the receiver (1800/3800). You can maintain the signal in the digital realm if your receiver accepts decoded 7.1 PCM like the 1700/2700. There is no difference in sound quality period unless the signal gets compressed after decoding.

Either way the principle of staying digital all the way to the D/A converters in the receiver is followed.

And you don't need to send 7.1 PCM down HDMI, but can use the analog multichannel inputs? That's what the dts link says. How is the average person supposed to keep up with all of this. I hope the format wars get settled soon.

And that is the INSANITY of the audio-video world! I miss the old days when buying a tv was three simple questions:

- color or B&W
- stereo or mono
- cable ready or not

But then I'd miss the HD. So there are trade offs to the insanity.

What I don't follow (cuz I don't understand this stuff) with your idea of simply plugging everything into your analog inputs is....

1. if it's that simple, why do we have/need all of the audio digital processing and digital inputs at the AVR?
2. why are you even looking into upgrading your AVR if you can simply plug all these audio signals into your analog inputs?

*shrug*

Hey bobpaule.

Speaking of HDMI or optical or analog, I'm just now setting up a new DVD player and I'm confused as hell about the DVD players audio outputs.

Should I be running different audio outs for each audio type? i.e. surround (DTS & Dolby), SACD, DVD-Audio?

My audio out options are HDMI, optical, coax, 7.1 analog out.

If I'm understanding the manual correctly, it seems to indicate that the HDMI will suffice for all audio formats if going into an AVR. I just find it hard to believe it is this simple.

Or am I overcomplicating this and the single HDMI will cover all the bases?

Well I suppose HDMI is the single cable digital solution and a fatter pipe. However eventually the DAC's in your receiver will convert them to analog before they go to the speakers.With the multichannel inputs (available on 659 and 2700) I guess each channel is being sent thro' a separate cable. The DTS link maintains that the sound quality is the same either way. I'm upgrading because my Y DSP-A1000 dates back to 1991. Pre-Dolby Digital days. It does have Dolby Pro-Logic which is a digital rendition of the analog signal I believe. 7 separate amplifiers! A 55 lb beast it is still considered a classic I believe. The volume knob is motorized. You turn up the volume from the remote and the knob rotates. I can't believe I paid $2500 for it (listed at $2900). Google E-bay and you will see at least one for sale.

Good mornin' my Mitsu friend.

That's my point. There is reason / need for an AVR with audio processing & digital inputs. Especially for us non-audiophiles who don't have the ears or equipment to really render any noticeable difference in audio quality.

To a true audiophile, your old AV unit is desirable (tubes & switches) over micro chips & processors.

I'm loving the single cable solution, though I only have two HDMI devices. But as you can see from my recent post, I'm also confused by it.

Speaking about analog out, there will be some signal loss, but you can still get decent results.

I remember the day i got rid of the jungle of cables when i sold my Anthem D1, it was getting 5.1 analog ins from my Blu-Ray, HDDVD, and SACD players. I still have a bagful of connectors, Y splitters, gender benders, and whatnot required to do that.

About HDMI 1.3, the only addition to 1.2 is colorspace, but please correct me if i am wrong.

Coffee is on! bobpaule & Mitsu take cream & sugar?

I think HDMI 1.3 is also needed for the yet to be available audio formats like TrueHD etc... if you want to use HDMI for audio.

But as discussed earlier, unless you are a serious gamer, few will get any real benefit out of HDMI 1.3 for years to come.

OK, took the plunge and just ordered a Y-2700 from AMZ. It's actually from 6th ave (authorized dealer it says-full factory warr.).

Looking forward to talking to you guys if I run into any problems. I think I'm going to have to struggle with Setup and YPAO. I hear the 2700 sometimes incorrectly signals incorrect phase on center speaker and shuts down. I am also looking for a good UPS/Surge protector. I need to put my DTV receiver, my TV (which is a DLP and runs a cooling fan for a minute or two when you turn off) and of course the new Y on UPS. The rest (DVD player, recorder) can go on surge. Any recommendations?

Boy do I have a jungle behind my TV. 1.3 adds 'deep color' which the TV also has to have and fixes lip sync (with HDMI, the audio can lead/lag - don't remember which - the pic).

Congrats!

Though, if you read the fine print of this forum, all forum support & help STOPS when you place your order.

I did YPAO on my 2700 with a friend who is a true audiophile. He was quite impressed with the 2700's YPAO and PEQ thingies. Though, he also pointed out it's weakneses. Like others in here he found the YPAO was a great starting point but then required some additional tweaking.

This friend of mine LOVED the receiver manager software to really help dial in all the frequencies. I'll gladly send you a copy of the receiver manager software if you want to play with it. You can run it in standalone mode (not hooked up to the 2700) so you can fiddle & get used to it's interface.

Also I just tried listening to a few songs I put onto a USB memory stick to try some of the different formats. MP3Pro played fine. I could not get the 2700 to play the WMA lossless. But before you freak out I've never before ever ripped to or listened to WMA lossless, so it is VERY possible I screwed up the rip. Do you know of any site that has a free WMA lossless audio file I could DL and try out for you? I can't find any.

Surge protection, I use Furman. I have a rack mount unit for all the AV units. I also put one each of the small Furman units behind my two plasmas. These are small Furman surge protectors made specifically for flat panel wall mounted displays.

You're kidding about support, right? What's receiver mgr? by Yamaha? I believe I do remember reading that WMA Lossless not supported. As long as it just skips over it, that's fine, I plan on using USB only occasionally. I have another room where I do my listening in stereo (apart from an MP3 player)

Yes I'm kidding about the forum help. LOL

Receiver Manager is a software package put out by Yamaha for professional installers. It basically takes every function on a 2700 and makes them accessible through a simple windows interface and in real time via a simple RS232 null modem cable.

i.e. If you alter any of the frequency settings in the software you hear the changes take effect immediately in real time.

Every single function, setting, adjustment, change that you can make by the 2700 remote and/or front panel is completely accessible in real time through the receiver manager software.

It REALLY comes in handy to mess with the PEQ settings as you have all of your speakers and each respective speakers frequency settings on one single screen. Adjustments are made by simple drop downs (frequencies) and simple sliders (increase/decrease settings, gains, etc...).

Heck, try it out just to play & fiddle prior to you even receiving your 2700.

You really will send me a copy? I would be very much indebted. What do I do? My e-mail is rdg9504xxxx @xxxxcomporium.net. (ignore xx's).

Sent. Just dbl click the zip file. It is self extracting. Choose "async" mode (standalone, not connected to the 2700).

Enjoy.

If, with your new 2700 purchase, you are going to be ordering/buying any cables, get a std. RS232 9 pin null modem cable (watch your m or f pinouts, depending on your RS232 port on your computer). Hopefully you have a laptop with an RS232 port so you can sit on your couch and tweak to your hearts content. You can use a USB/RS232 converter cable if you are without an RS232 port on your laptop.

Monoprice.com (highly recommended cable supplier) has these null modem cables. I think I paid like $ 1.60 for a 6 foot.

No of course not, wasn't thinking. I'll look into a PCMCIA or a USB to Serial. I bought an HDMI cable from Mono, so I'm familiar. Thanks again.

They already have. Experts anticipate the released spectrum will yield at least $10 Billion (yup, with a "B"). That's a lot of change. That may keep things moving along.

You can always add my name to pass along the blame. My previous AV Receiver was quite a bit less expensive. I managed to get a great price on my unit. But talk about a difference in the sound quality! It blows me away!!! On the video side, I have an upscaling DVD player hooked to it via HDMI. I have a CD/DVD changer connected via component. I even have an old VCR connected via composite. On the audio site, I have the CD side of that changer, the USB port for audio, a cassette deck, a minidisc player, an iPod dock and even a turntable. The 2700 handles all this brilliantly.

For the few times you would bother with the receiver manager software (initial setup mostly) maybe just get an extra long null modem cable or null modem + std RS232 cable from your desktop. I'm running a total of 40 feet (null + std RS232) without issue.

Hate to see you buying extra gear for a single & seldom used application.