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The Official Yamaha RX-V1700/RX-V2700 Thread - Page 21

post #601 of 5350
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmgodfrey View Post

Since this is a separate subject from my last post -

Is there anyway to take a 480p signal and down convert it to 480i? My DVR's component output is 480p - my display is not. (yea, I'm working on that one.....) I just dropped $4k on all of this equipment - it would not be a good idea for my health and safety to purchase a larger TV at this time (angry wife).


Thanks,


Phil

You could use S-vid or composite out of your DVR it would be 480i. Can't help with the angry wife though....sorry!!

Regards,

RTROSE
post #602 of 5350
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfyncsu7 View Post

Just got my 2700 delivered today. I've read through the manual, but I'm not really understanding the difference between 'Straight' mode and 'Pure Direct'. Aren't they both just doing as little processing as possible? I'm sure there's a bigger difference, I'm just not 'getting it'. Can anyone put this in layman's terms for me?

I see you've got a few response to this question, and while they have the general idea I might be able to shed even more light on this.

"Straight" mode basically takes the digital input signal and applies bass management (x-over & sub integration) and whatever YPAO settings you've chosen to the signal and decodes the signal in its' original format ie; dts, dolby digital etc, and does not apply any other post processing (like PLIIx or Neo:6).

With an analog input signal it first converts the signal to digital (ADC) then follows the above steps minus the decoding which was already done in the player.

"Pure Direct" analog input bypasses all signal processing except volume control and at the same time shuts down all unecassary circuits that might induce noise. I think digital signals are decoded and converted to analog (DAC) and then follow the above path.
post #603 of 5350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay_WJ View Post

I'm interested in these new receivers. I have a question. I heard that the RX-V2600/1600 uses Burr Brown DACs and op-amps. I assume that the new 2700/1700 uses the same ones. Does anyone know how high-grade op-amps the 1700/2700 uses for the buffer amplifiers of the DACs? Do they use the same one as the Denon 3806 uses? Anyone knows?

My another question is about 2-ch Pure Direct mode. The new 2700/1700 does not provide subwoofer out in 2-ch Pure Direct mode like the 2600/1600, does it?

I got an answer to my own question. Most of $1k (or above) receivers from Yamaha, Denon, PE, etc use the Burr-Brown OPA2134 op-amps as buffer amplifiers for their DACs. This sells at $1.10 per unit (w/ 2 channels), and represents superior audio quality op-amps. Although not as high-end as the Burr-Brown OPA627 (w/ only 1 channel; costs $24.50 for 2; 10 times more expensive!), it is a much better and higher grade part than found in cheap AVRs, CDPs, and DVD players.

-Jay
post #604 of 5350
Another question.

Does anyone use the RX-V1700/2700 with the Oppo DV-970HD via HDMI connection? If so, have any problems playing DD, DTS, stereo PCM, and multi-ch PCM via this connection?

And someone else can answer my question above about subwoofer output in the 2-ch Pure Direct mode?
post #605 of 5350
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnrgagne View Post

I see you've got a few response to this question, and while they have the general idea I might be able to shed even more light on this.

"Straight" mode basically takes the digital input signal and applies bass management (x-over & sub integration) and whatever YPAO settings you've chosen to the signal and decodes the signal in its' original format ie; dts, dolby digital etc, and does not apply any other post processing (like PLIIx or Neo:6).

With an analog input signal it first converts the signal to digital (ADC) then follows the above steps minus the decoding which was already done in the player.

"Pure Direct" analog input bypasses all signal processing except volume control and at the same time shuts down all unecassary circuits that might induce noise. I think digital signals are decoded and converted to analog (DAC) and then follow the above path.

So when would I use one over the other for best results?

Do I use 'Straight' when I'm watching a movie/ playing a game that needs to be decoded in the receiver to DTS/Dolby Digital and I don't want any of the crazy DSP modes like 'Movie' or 'Concert Hall'... etc...

.... and do I use 'Pure Direct' when I'm watching a movie/ playing a game/listening to a SACD that has already been decoded to PCM by the player????
post #606 of 5350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay_WJ View Post

I heard that the RX-V2600/1600 uses Burr Brown DACs and op-amps. I assume that the new 2700/1700 uses the same ones.

yeah, from what I understand (communicating with Yamaha by e-mail) the RX-V2700/RX-V1700 use a similiar pre-amp/DAC, amplifier, power-supply configuration as the RX-V2600/RX-1600 family, respectiviely. Which includes the use of Burr Brown DAC's, Op-amps, Schottky Barrier Rectifier Diode's, etc.,...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay_WJ View Post

Does anyone know how high-grade op-amps the 1700/2700 uses for the buffer amplifiers of the

yes, Burr Brown Op-amps are used down-stream of the DAC's as buffer's (as you know).

Check out these Yamaha links for more details:
http://www.yamaha.co.jp/english/prod.../story/01.html
http://www.yamaha.co.jp/english/prod...fo/rxv2600.pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay_WJ View Post

My another question is about 2-ch Pure Direct mode. The new 2700/1700 does not provide subwoofer out in 2-ch Pure Direct mode like the 2600/1600, does it?

Guess the other guys were able to answer these pretty good. However here are definitions from Yamaha site:
http://www.yamaha.co.jp/english/prod...q/hsq1.html#01

STRAIGHT- Straight outputs the original analog or digital signal without any post-processing.

2-Channel Stereo- processes the multichannel signal and outputs it via two channels, for use with a two-speaker system.

PURE- Pure Direct is a special listening mode that provides the highest possible signal purity. It can be used for both analog and digital sources, with two-channel or multi-channel inputs. When it is selected, the signal follows the most direct path and power to the video circuit is shut down. Certain functions are not operational and even the display is turned off, lighting for only a few seconds when a function is used. All EQ, and Tone, functions are disabled.
post #607 of 5350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay_WJ View Post

And someone else can answer my question above about subwoofer output in the 2-ch Pure Direct mode?

In "2ch Stereo" mode, multi-channel sources are mixed-down to 2-channel. Also, a sub-woofer [can] be used (bass managament is enabled). Just have to be sure to set Bass Out for "SWFR" (pg. 53 in manual).
post #608 of 5350
I just bought this unit and am very happy with it.
But does anyone know if it's possible to get sound from BOTH Front Presences speakers and Surround Back speakers? What I've seen in the manual says that it's one or the other. Are there any ways to do it? Or should I just split the wire and try to create dual LR front speakers?

Thanks!
post #609 of 5350
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfyncsu7 View Post

Do I use 'Straight' when I'm watching a movie/ playing a game that needs to be decoded in the receiver to DTS/Dolby Digital and I don't want any of the crazy DSP modes like 'Movie' or 'Concert Hall'... etc...

I typically use STRAIGHT mode's for listening to music myself, especially DTS or DolbyDigital tracks from a DVD-A, or CD, music source. Also, I sometimes listen to PCM Stereo sources using STRAIGHT (when I want EQ function added). I usually don't like extra "effects" for music listening myself, unless you specifically want to invoke some particular simulation for your particular purpose.

However, you can use STRAIGHT for watching DVD-movies (DolbyDigital, or DTS), and cable TV broadcasts as well, it's really up to your "tastes".

Otherwise I, typically, use MOVIE STANDARD Pro Logic (DolbyDigital or DTS), or MOVIE STANDARD PL II (DolbyDigital or DTS), for most DVD-movies, and cable TV movies. The sound-field list is endless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfyncsu7 View Post

.... and do I use 'Pure Direct' when I'm watching a movie/ playing a game/listening to a SACD that has already been decoded to PCM by the player????

I would say PURE mode is intended, primarily, for listening to music tracks with zero effects - ie. no DSP, tone controls, EQ, or video switching. Just by the nature that PURE mode disables video circuitry implies that it's intended for "listening", and not "watching". I use PURE mode 95% of the time when listening to music. And I listen to music probably 85%, and watch video probably 15%.

Moreover, I use PURE when listening to regular CD's, and SACD's (MULTI-CHANNEL INP).

There are sound-fields specifically for gaming- ie. PL II Game and PL IIx Game. Basically you have to play around with the various modes and sound-fields.
post #610 of 5350
Quote:
Originally Posted by koblenza View Post

I just bought this unit and am very happy with it.
But does anyone know if it's possible to get sound from BOTH Front Presences speakers and Surround Back speakers? What I've seen in the manual says that it's one or the other. Are there any ways to do it?

It can't be done, because the 2700 only has 7 amplifier channels, and to do that it would require it to have 9 amplifier channels. The only Yamaha receiver that can operate the presence channels and the back surrounds at the same time is the RX-Z9, because it has two additional dedicated 50wpc amp channels that are just for the presence speaker output alone.


Quote:
Originally Posted by koblenza View Post

Or should I just split the wire and try to create dual LR front speakers?

Not recommended, because that very well could be too much of a load for the front L&R amplifier channels, and it may cause it to go into a self protect shutdown. Also it would not function in the same way as the presence channel option does.
post #611 of 5350
Thanks for the input. Forgive me, I'm new at this, but would it be possible for me to just connect a new 2-channel amplifier to the pre-out for presence speakers from the receiver and then just connect the speakers to that amp. would it be able to process the presence speakers AND the surround back?
post #612 of 5350
Quote:
Originally Posted by koblenza View Post

Thanks for the input. Forgive me, I'm new at this, but would it be possible for me to just connect a new 2-channel amplifier to the pre-out for presence speakers from the receiver and then just connect the speakers to that amp. would it be able to process the presence speakers AND the surround back?

I also have the 2700, and had thought of the same thing.
Unfortunately, that won't work either.

Jack
post #613 of 5350
[quote=WestCoastD]I would say PURE mode is intended, primarily, for listening to music tracks with zero effects - ie. no DSP, tone controls, EQ, or video switching. Just by the nature that PURE mode disables video circuitry implies that it's intended for "listening", and not "watching". QUOTE]

WestCoastD,

I haven't tried this yet, since my projector has been sent off to be cailbrated, but according to the 2700 User's manual (p. 52):

"When the component connected to the HDMI IN jacks is selected as the input source and Audio input jack is set to "AUTO" or "HDMI", this unit does not turn off the video circuitry in the Pure Direct mode"

This makes it seem like if I'm watching a Blu-ray movie or playing a PS3 game with Lossless PCM connected by HDMI, I should be able to use the Pure Direct mode and the audio AND video will still come through untouched.

However, 'rmrgagne' made it seem like in this mode, any YPAO settings (speaker distance/size, bass management... etc) will not be utilized. Seems like a tradeoff and I'm not sure it would be worth it.... guess I have some testing to do.
post #614 of 5350
Just out of curiosity, Jack, do you know why the pre-out to external amp option won't work? will it overload the system or something?
post #615 of 5350
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwclark View Post

I noticed in the Sony 5200 thread that it is possible to combine differing inputs for video and audio into one output, as say Video 1.
One can assign HDMI 1 (cable STB video) and audio from analog input CD to video 1 and then be able to watch TV and listen to a CD!

Can either the 2700 or 1700 do that?


One more time.....

Perhaps the answer is obvious?
post #616 of 5350
Quote:
Originally Posted by koblenza View Post

Just out of curiosity, Jack, do you know why the pre-out to external amp option won't work? will it overload the system or something?

No overload, the unit just doesn't output a signal to both at the same time. You can connect both rear surrounds and presence speakers, but you just can't get a signal to both.
Would be nice if Yamaha would implement this though.
post #617 of 5350
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfyncsu7 View Post

WestCoastD,
according to the 2700 User's manual (p. 52):

"When the component connected to the HDMI IN jacks is selected as the input source and Audio input jack is set to "AUTO" or "HDMI", this unit does not turn off the video circuitry in the Pure Direct mode"

I should be able to use the Pure Direct mode and the audio AND video will still come through untouched.

your absolutely correct. This is definitely new for, both, the RX-V2700/RX-V1700 models. However, RX-V2600/RX-V1600 family disables all video circuitry functions, period (this is what I've been used to). The whole point of this mode is (or was) to provide the most direct line from the pre-amp to the amplifiers, and minimize any potential interference or noise, to provide the highest possible signal purity. Was intially intended as a hi-fidelity "listening" mode.

I guess this could be a good thing for watching particular video material where you prefer to have the best fidelity for the audio track, for example on a "live" music DVD, etc.,...Or, like myself, you could listen to some music (in PURE mode) and play a video for background, or sports from cable TV broadcasts. Only thing, I just realized, all DSP should be disabled, so that would probably eliminate running DolbyDigital or DTS audio sources? Also, I wonder if [enabling] the video circuitry "contaminates" the PURE mode?

Otherwise, I use PURE exclusively for most any music source, where possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfyncsu7 View Post

However, 'rmrgagne' made it seem like in this mode, any YPAO settings (speaker distance/size, bass management... etc) will not be utilized. Seems like a tradeoff and I'm not sure it would be worth it.... guess I have some testing to do.

yeah, all EQ functions, including PEQ (Parametric Equalizer) which YPAO uses, are disabled. Guess you [do] have to experiment with it.
post #618 of 5350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacksmyname View Post

No overload, the unit just doesn't output a signal to both at the same time. You can connect both rear surrounds and presence speakers, but you just can't get a signal to both.
Would be nice if Yamaha would implement this though.


I am thinking of getting this receiver. I take it then by what your saying here is that it does no good to have the presence speakers if you want to use the rear surrounds ? I allready have a 7.1 speaker setup and was trying to figure out how I was going to fish wires through the walls to add the presence speakers, but maybe I won't have to worry about it ??
post #619 of 5350
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfyncsu7 View Post

So when would I use one over the other for best results?

Do I use 'Straight' when I'm watching a movie/ playing a game that needs to be decoded in the receiver to DTS/Dolby Digital and I don't want any of the crazy DSP modes like 'Movie' or 'Concert Hall'... etc...

.... and do I use 'Pure Direct' when I'm watching a movie/ playing a game/listening to a SACD that has already been decoded to PCM by the player????


I think it boils down to your tastes and the quality of your room acoustics.
If you've got a really good 2 channel set up which doesn't need any room EQ or bass management Pure Direct would likely be the best bet.

I think for any multi-channel application that the benefits of bass management, level setting and sub intergration would far outweigh those of the Pure Direct mode because dvd players generally don't have as advanced capabilities in those areas as the Yamahas do.

I also find that I much prefer the use of a sub even in 2 channel so I rarely use the Pure Direct. I think most DVD players won't allow for the use of a sub unless there's an LFE signal in the mix.
post #620 of 5350
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSearfoss View Post

I am thinking of getting this receiver. I take it then by what your saying here is that it does no good to have the presence speakers if you want to use the rear surrounds ? I allready have a 7.1 speaker setup and was trying to figure out how I was going to fish wires through the walls to add the presence speakers, but maybe I won't have to worry about it ??

Yep that's right. Either presence or surround back - but not both.

It's really too bad they didn't have a pre-out for the presence/ SB so yould could have the option of using an external amp.
post #621 of 5350
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnrgagne View Post

Yep that's right. Either presence or surround back - but not both.

It's really too bad they didn't have a pre-out for the presence/ SB so yould could have the option of using an external amp.

Sorry, but a newbie, and haven't been involved with this for many years. I have a 7.1 speaker arrangement. Two fronts, a center, a SW, two surround backs and then two side surrounds.

The Yamaha is a 7.1 system, but you are saying the side surrounds don't function?
Is that because the input source is only 5.1? Via HD-DVD, etc.?

When listening to music there is a 7 channel stereo...correct.

post #622 of 5350
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwclark View Post

Sorry, but a newbie, and haven't been involved with this for many years. I have a 7.1 speaker arrangement. Two fronts, a center, a SW, two surround backs and then two side surrounds.

The Yamaha is a 7.1 system, but you are saying the side surrounds don't function?
Is that because the input source is only 5.1? Via HD-DVD, etc.?

When listening to music there is a 7 channel stereo...correct.


The side surrounds are stereo, the rear surround channel is mono (you really only need one speaker for the rear).
With Yamaha, you can add what they call presence speakers at the front; usually above and a bit behind the mains. They add what would typically be reflected sound, from the front, in a live performance. They can help to create a deeper soundstage, or reproduce sounds in a movie soundtrack meant to be "further back" (hope I've explained this ok.....it's what I remember from owning one of the first standalone DSP units Yamaha made back in the late '80's).
post #623 of 5350
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSearfoss View Post

I am thinking of getting this receiver. I take it then by what your saying here is that it does no good to have the presence speakers if you want to use the rear surrounds ? I allready have a 7.1 speaker setup and was trying to figure out how I was going to fish wires through the walls to add the presence speakers, but maybe I won't have to worry about it ??

Well, you can use the presence speakers if you don't mind going into the menu when you want to change from rear surrounds to presence.
I think the presence speakers are probably more useful for music than movies.
Years ago I had a Yamaha standalone DSP unit. It was connected to the tape monitor jacks on my integrated amp. It had a bunch of different soundfields (like receivers do now), and was meant to be used with two surround speakers and two front presence speakers. It was pretty cool; helped with creating the illusion of "being there" at a live music performance.
I'm building a new house, and while I'll have about 4-5 feet behind my sofa for rear surrounds, I'm reconsidering and may go with the front presence speakers instead.
Or maybe I'll go with both.

Jack
post #624 of 5350
Hi guys, I must first say thank you for all your help. I began reading from page 1 and finished in about 2 days. A lot of useful info here. I ordered the receiver yesterday and should have it by next week. I want to make sure I have all the necessary cables and connectors. I have a unique setup in my house where I have complete suround sound throughout my house wired into the walls. How it works is there are speakers in the walls of every room and individual volume controls in each room. On the volume controls is an IR relay back to the reciever, this obviosly allows me to control the unit from any room. The way this is currently hooked up is there is a unit in the wall behind my current reviever. On this unit there are two RCA jacks and 4 IR outputs. The RCA jacks go into any source on the reciever, ie Phono because it is not used. Then there are IR wires plugged into the ports and they run to the front of the reciever and to the CD player. They stick on the glass in front of the componets so that the IR hits the remote imput button on each unit. I am wondering what better connections the Yamaha will give me. Is there a way to Hard wire the IR's into the back.

Also when you setup the remote to control the CD player and the TV do you need to aim the remote at the TV and the CD player for them to work or just aiming the remote at the reciever does the job. How about the IPOD? When the ipod screen shows up on my plasma will I have to aim the remote at the TV to switch songs or at the IPOD or at the receiver?

This last one might be a bit tougher but I will give it a shot. I have the same IR/Volume control with speakers on my roof. I don't like the fact that you can't see whats playing. The whole house, as well as these Volume controls in the walls are all CAD-5 wired. Is there any way with the network function or using another zone for my roof to be able to place a monitor up there so I can see the on screen functions the Yamaha has?

Thanks
post #625 of 5350
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwclark View Post

I noticed in the Sony 5200 thread that it is possible to combine differing inputs for video and audio into one output, as say Video 1.
One can assign HDMI 1 (cable STB video) and audio from analog input CD to video 1 and then be able to watch TV and listen to a CD!

Can either the 2700 or 1700 do that?

Yes. From the manual (page 45):
Quote:


You can combine a video image from a video source with
sound from an audio source. For example, you can enjoy
listening to classical music while viewing beautiful
scenery from the video source on the video monitor.
post #626 of 5350
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr00w View Post

Yes. From the manual (page 45):

Ah, thank you!

I take it that applies to both the 1700 and 2700.
post #627 of 5350
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwclark View Post

Ah, thank you!

I take it that applies to both the 1700 and 2700.

Hmm...not sure about that, i have the 2700. You should download the 1700's manual to be sure.
post #628 of 5350
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr00w View Post

Hmm...not sure about that, i have the 2700. You should download the 1700's manual to be sure.

And the answer is................. yes!
post #629 of 5350
Well, I've just installed my new 2700 two days ago.

Previous setup:

Receiver: Sony STR-DB870
DVD: Toshiba SD-2800
PVR: Scientific-Atlanta 8300HD
Projector: Sony HS-50

Current setup:

Receiver: Yamaha RX-V2700
DVD: Samsung HD960
PVR: Scientific-Atlanta 8300HD
Projector: Sony HS-50

Installation:

The panel behind the speakers' terminals is very thin (cheap). While trying to push in the banana plugs it felt like plastic (bent a little). I had to use bare wires cause my plugs were too large for the holes. Since this part of the back panel is very crowded this was more difficult than necessary. This is the reason Yamaha is supplying this little plastic wrench so don't loose it. Anyway this is a one time task... I'm using HDMI for everything so hooking up the DVD, PVR and projector was a snap.

First thing i did after plugging the components was to pop "Cars" in the DVD. Well i was not impressed by the sound. Sure it was better than the Sony but not what I expected. Time to run "Auto setup".

The first time I ran it, YPAO found that all front speakers (LRC) were out of phase which is strange since my speaker cables have a blue line for the + side and they were correctly plugged... Well, no way i wanted to mess with the speaker terminals on the Yamaha so I made the correction on the speakers I ran auto setup a second time and it didn't found my sub. After checking cables and everything I finally found that I had plug the sub in the 6.1 multi-channel input! I desperately need new batteries for my flashlight! I ran setup for a third time without problems.

So, exited setup to watch a DVD and then no picture or sound, only snow... After switching cables (other HDMI, components) I discover that bringing the Yamaha menu up while watching a DVD on the Samsung causes a HDCP error. I had to swich off the dvd player or the receiver to get a proper handshake. The problem comes from the Samsung player cause it works with the PVR.

Then I plugged the network cable and installed Media connect 2.0. I had some problems to see the receiver as a device but after messing with firewall settings and powering on and off the receiver it worked. BTY, I downloaded Media player 11 which includes a new version of media connect and it works fine. I definitively need to build playlists cause scrolling by artist is kind of slow. Too bad Yamaha didn't go with iTunes which is my day to day MP3 player...

Movie sound:

So yesterday I had time too watch a couple of DVD to hear what this receiver is capable of. Wow! Thought I had a surround receiver before! The difference from the Sony is incredible. In "The Last Samourai" in the raining scenes you can hear the very subtle sounds from the rain while thunder strikes, battle scenes are enveloping with cannons firing, gun shots moving from front to back. In "Constantine" in the scene where the phones are ringing in different places you just hear the sound moving left and right, back and forth not from the speakers themselves. YPAO is doing a great job cause my speaker setup is far from optimal, using a disparate system where LR, Center, back and sub are from different companies. This is the next upgrade I plan to do.

Conclusion:

I didn't have time to do some 2ch music test at this point so I'll post my impressions later on, but so far I'm very happy with this purchase (not so about the HD960 though).
post #630 of 5350
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr00w View Post

Well, I've just installed my new 2700 two days ago.

I didn't have time to do some 2ch music test at this point so I'll post my impressions later on, but so far I'm very happy with this purchase (not so about the HD960 though).

cool!
yeah, I'm curious to see your input on sound quality (2-channel music, etc.,...).

Which speaker set are you using?
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