The Official Yamaha RX-V1700/RX-V2700 Thread - Page 24

Thanks. I was just about to ask the same question about whether or not "THX Certification Select 2" or whatever was any big deal or not.

One more question: Going by the first post in my sig link, are these level 6 receivers or just level 5's? Thanks!

I'm suspecting it might be 6 but I'm not 100 percent sure.



^^ Are those the only real differences between the 1700 and the 2700? A USB connection, an extra HDMI input, and 10 more watts per channel?

Actually you are wrong about that....

It's more than just a logo that is missing, there are also other things left out without THX certification. Because without the certification they also are not allowed to use/offer you any of the THX post processing option and features. Now as for if those things are important to people or not, is only something that they can decide for themselves. Because there are many people that simply do not even care and or do not even use those features. But yet there also other people that do, and that do not want to give them up.

YPAO Automatic System Calibration

The 2700 allows multiple YPAO optimizations but the 1700 only 1.
This was posted in this thread somewhere.

That's exactly my concern. I'm not really wowed by the cinema DSP's that are provided. I might not have been wowed by THX Cinema either, but who knows, it would be one more option to try out.

Has anyone heard THX Cinema on another model? I'm really curious as to how it compares to Yamaha's DSP's. I know it differs with the room, but just generally...

Thanks!

Does anyone know if the 2700 is a level 6 receiver? Obviously it's a 5 for sure.

I am not aware of this classification system. What does it mean?

Click on the thread in my sig. It's the sticky at the top of this forum. Look at the first post.

Sorry, I should have indicated that.

Yes, you are right about the surround algorythms, but I assumed that was obvious. And their surround post-processing is not really special in any way that I could discern, PLIIx and L7 are better IMO. And with all the other DSP modes that the Yamaha has, that becomes even less relevant.

And as far as meeting THX power requirements, THD tolerances or whatever other criteria they require for certification there's no reason to automatically assume that the unit won't meet them because they don't have the sticker.

A quick question please. Does the RX-V1700 allow you to set a max. volume setting like the RX-V2700? I read through the manual online twice but can't see anything.

Thanks.

THX certification for power handling consists of a set of dynamic load tests. They do not consider the ratings reported by normal consumer electronics. THX is also a quality control organization that tests a multitude of parameters in a product to see if its performance is acceptable.

Like I said earlier I had the THX Ultra 2 on my Z9, and really, I rarely used its' surround modes; for multi-channel music I preferred the "straight" mode and for two channel upconversion I preferred the PLIIx (or L7 when I had an HK and that by far was my favorite) I also preferred the Yamaha's Cinema DSP modes to upconvert 5.1 to 7.1 or 9.1 over the THX.

Thanks for the more in depth explanation. I knew that, but that doesn't change the fact that a non-certified unit could meet the criteria but not go through the certification process and cost. This what the OP's concern was, and why Yamaha didn't go for certification on these two models I have no idea. I just don't think its' just automatically a negative not to have it.

Neither do I, but it is not necessarily a positive either. Some of the THX processing features like boundary gain compensation and subwoofer level limits can be very handy can be though.

What a boggling amount of information...

I do have a few questions
As far as I know my 2600 does this to HDMI...then again its not a specific option that I can remember and my Yamaha 950 DVD player already scales it.

My head is spinning after reading all of this stuff. I want to upgrade to a 2700 but have a few questions that I might have missed answers to.

1. I have a large SACD/DVD-A collection which is very important to me. My 2600 passes multi channel out unaffected. Someone mentioned in here that even the multi channel can be passed via the DSP. Can anyone confirm this? This would make the purchase worth it if it did analog bass management since I can sell my ICBM which are going for a good dollar since Outlaw no longer makes them and I can eliminate 6 cables from the system.

2. HD Audio...I still do not understand how HD audio works...I mean connectivity wise. Assuming there is a future HD DVD lossless format for music like DVD-A how will it pass? HDMI only? Will it have bass management? I thought HDMI did not accept DTS which for backward compatability would be a problem. I know the HD DVD players have 6/8 channel analog outputs but unfortunetly I have those taken up my my DVD-A/SACD setup...will there be a purely digital pass through for HD Audio of any kind?

I'll be running 4 devices total. 1 will be my Dish 622 DVR which will continue to run component because the HDMI output sucks, my D950 DVD player for DVD-A and SACD(unless someone does a combo HD DVD/SACD/DVD-A), an Xbox 360, and some HD DVD player in the near future.

I'm running all this into my Samsung 61" 1080p DLP.

I have been incredibly happy with my 2600 which has given me 100 percent completely flawless use for the year I've owned it. I bought it because it upconverted and handled HDMI and component switching and does so very well.

I am looking at a 2700 for 2 reasons. 1 is picking up the extra HDMI input, and second is the network option. I will archive all my CD's on some lossless format on a NAS and no longer have to swap CD's.

How is the network feature, is the interface decent?

Someone also mentioned multizone video...any hopes for that multizone video to include HD out?

I have a 622 DVR and we want to get a second HD TV for the bedroom but we want to be able to use the same DVR for one common place to have video. It sends SD to a second TV but if I could use the 2700 to push HD to a second TV I'd be at the store tomorrow. It is very very rare if ever that we are watching something on both TV's at once so if I could pipe the output somewhere else it would be perfect.

Thanks

One more thing, I think the 1700 lacks the 2700's Anchor Bay Technology's ABT1010 video scaling chip that turns all your imputs (except HDMI w/c is a pass-thru) to 1080i/p. The 1700 reportedly only employ the latest Oplus de-interlacer to convert 480i to 480p (same as the 2700's).

The ABT is reportedly the latest and superior to the ageing Faraudja's DCDi, and this is where my interest on the 2700 lies in. Otherwise I just go with the cheaper 1700 if i'm still gonna be using my Oppo DVD player to do the 1080i scaler via HDMI out.

I can't find any review that compares both PQ/performances of DCDi and ABT1010.

BTW, the ABT1010 is the same chip used by Arcam DV137 that cost 2 grand+ and the ABT1018 is the same chip used by Teac Esoteric's P-03 Universal SA-CD/CD/DVD Player that cost an arm and a leg! Also, ABT were used on DVDO video scalers with nauseating prices! ABT must be good and buying it on a Yammy that cost a grand is indeed a bargain... but only if it is really that good (also against the DCDi) and I'm waiting for other owners out their that says indeed it is! So please keep it comin guys!

HD DVD offers similar sound capabilities to DVD-Audio - Dolby TrueHD is basically MLP with a few tweaks, and the other formats are just higher-bitrate lossy codecs or different lossless ones. Extra channels is the only real difference from the end user's view. The connectivity issues are the same; the formats won't fit across S/PDIF - you just need HDMI 1.1, i.Link or similar, or multichannel analogue connections.

HDMI 1.0 will pass DD, DTS and MPEG - all the same bitstreams as S/PDIF, no problem. The simplest audio connection method for HD DVD is HDMI. The only likely potential problem is if the receiver doesn't get the LFE level right - the RX2700 may well suffer from this.

Thanks.

I'd have to say at this point I'm pretty locked in on the 2700 as my first choice but I'm going to be doing some more research.

It's pretty sad when I already feel buyer's guilt and I haven't even bought anything yet.

Looks like the LFE is missing on RX-V1700 via the HDMI connection when playing hi-def discs (blu-ray and HD DVD). I picked up this unit last night and everything was working great until I started viewing Ice Age 2. I noticed a lack of bass and sure enough, while on that input, I ran the test tones and got nothing from my sub. Am I doing something wrong here? When I switched to my regular dvd input, I ran the test tones again but this time had bass output.

Aha, m@rkus, looks like you might be able to help me figure out whether the Yamahas have the LFE bug or not. It sounds like they do...

You say you're getting "nothing" from the sub. Do you really mean nothing, or just low? If low, how low? Which test tones are you using? Which players?

If you tell your player to output PCM all the time over HDMI, rather than its "auto" setting, you should be able to replicate the problem on SD discs, so you can use any SD calibration discs you have.

It doesn't look like the Yamaha has anything in its menu to address this; there is the "LFE LEVEL" setting, but the manual specifically says that only affects its internal DD/DTS decode. Might be worth checking it anyway.

I feel like I'm seeing this issue just about everywhere I turn.

At that rate, is it really safe to buy any receiver right now as far as any HD applications go?

When I was testing for LFE via HDMI, I was listening at lower levels as my daughter was sleeping (maybe 60 to 65 dbs). I was watching Ice Age 2 on my PS3 and just ran the internal Yamaha test tones (which worked fine when I ran setup earlier) and sure enough, no output from my sub, no matter how high I adjusted the Spl level. It may be a case that I was listening at too low a volume level for me to actually detect output from the sub, but I could hear the other speakers with no problem. I then switched inputs to my sd dvd player (sony ES changer) and repeated the test but this time, there was sub output. Either I am doing something very wrong or there is indeed an LFE problem with the Yamaha's HDMI inputs.

Hope that makes things clear.

For laughs, what are your crossover settings and speaker settings? (Large, small, etc.?) I have a PS3 so I'm very interested to see how it does with these Yamahas, since I'm considering buying one.

Thanks!

Q of BanditZ - don't know the answer to that one. I've heard that the Denon receivers do not suffer from this problem so I plan to read up on the 2807 but I'm hoping that its more "user" error on my part and not the actual receiver.

I did read that the Yamaha 1600 and 2600 suffered from the same problem so maybe it is the 1700 afterall.

Speakers are set as small with 60 Hz crossover point.

^^ Be interested to see how this turns out.

If people have the ability to do so, setting speakers to Large "gets around" this issue, does it not?

Hang on, you were using the Yamaha receiver's internal test tones? Those should be independent of any source selection or type. Sounds like there's another bug there on top of what you're seeing with your player. That's just going to confuse us even more. You really need to look at test signals generated by your player, or from a disc.

Like I said - hope its user error. Will unhook and re-try everything again this evening and report back.

Setting speakers to "large" allows a form of work-around, in that you can then turn your subwoofer up 10dB without mangling redirected bass. If you then set the "LFE LEVEL" to -10dB for the internal DD/DTS decoder, I suppose it would all work out consistent.

I wouldn't have thought this workaround would be terribly attractive to most people.

A work-around with less impact is to adjust levels in your player, if it offers trims for HDMI output; turn all the other channels down 10dB and everything will be back in balance. Just remember to lower your master volume before switching away from that input though...

Don't think you can adjust anything on the players when you output the signals via HDMI (for the PS3 and the HD-A1).

As for setting my speakers to large, I have low sensitivity speakers (85 db) and as such, don't want to strain my amps - hence setting them to small and letting the Sunfire sub take the brunt of effort.

Q,

Does the PS3 allow you to adjust the "trims" as KMO is suggesting?

P.S. I was just reading Dolby's website concerning TrueHD. This is only an issue for people with 7.1 or greater setups. It does not effect those of us that have 5.1 setups.

Frank