The Official Yamaha RX-V1700/RX-V2700 Thread - Page 25

That's great news for me since I'm sticking with 5.1 for a while, but let me go check about this HDMI trims question you asked me.

Confused? How is TrueHD only an issue for 7.1? Don't people with 5.1 systems want to ejoy uncompressed audio as well?

No trim settings on the PS3 whatsoever.

Who knows? Maybe someday they can add those kinds of features via firmware, but not as is.

What did you read on Dolby's site, Frank? I think you may have grasped the wrong end of the stick. Multichannel discrete connection over HDMI is required either for more than 5.1 discrete channels, or the better quality found on DVD-Audio, Super Audio CD, HD DVD & Blu-ray.

To be honest, I'd kind of rather players didn't provide any trims on HDMI outputs. It's just another thing for users to screw up. You don't see balance or level trims on the optical output of a CD player, do you? No, you just get raw digital data. HDMI PCM should be just the same.

TrueHD - S/PDIF Connection
If your A/V receiver or processor has neither multichannel analog or digital inputs, but is equipped with 5.1-channel Dolby® Digital decoding and playback, you will still be able to enjoy 5.1-channel performance from next-generation optical players. Included within 7.1-channel multichannel Dolby Digital Plus and Dolby TrueHD streams is a core 5.1 mix prepared by the content maker that is used when the player is set for 5.1-channel mode. After playback audio signals have been mixed in the player, the PCM signal can be encoded to a Dolby Digital signal and output from the player via S/PDIF (optical or coaxial) to your connected Dolby Digital A/V receiver or processor.

In many instances, the audio quality you will experience from this connection may be better than what you would experience during playback of standard-definition DVD-Video discs, especially if the native signal on the disc is Dolby TrueHD or high-bit-rate Dolby Digital Plus. This is a direct result of a higher-quality source signal feeding a Dolby Digital encoder running at 640 kbpshigher than the maximum bit rate on DVD-Video.

I do not have a 7.1 setup so, the 7.1 HDMI input does nothing for me at this time.

Frank

Frank - here is where things get tricky. It all comes down to the word "core". Basically, a S/PDIF connection is bandwidth limited and cannot pass full uncompressed audio. Dolby TrueHD is uncompressed audio. Built within this signal is a "core" dolby digital compressed audio stream that CAN be passed via S/PDIF - this was a requirement of the new audio formats so that they could be backwards compatible with older receivers etc. What IS true is that while this signal is indeed compressed, it is at a higher bitrate than what is found on sd-dvds thanks to greater disc storage capacity.

To listen to the uncompressed TrueHD signal, you need either 5.1 analog inputs or HDMI, both of which have the bandwidth necessary to carry the audio stream. If you compare the "core" stream with the uncompressed stream, you will definitely notice that the later has far more clarity, impact, depth and subtlety. It has nothing to do with having a 5.1 audio system as opposed to 7.1 - it has to do with bandwidth, connector type and audio compression.

FYI I called Yamaha today to ask some questions about the 2700.

It does not do any processing what so ever on the multi channel inputs as suggested in an earlier post.

You will still need external bass management for SACD/DVD-A.

To the problem above. If you have multichannel outs on HD DVD which I think the Toshiba has, couldn't you run it via an ICBM to fix the low LFE?

My ICBM has a 10db gain for the LFE that I can use to compensate.

Anyone have a 6 channel analog switcher

I'll bet you my sanity that the guy you spoke to at Yamaha got confused with Pure Direct.

AFAIK, all bass management and YPAO settings work with the multi-channel inputs unless you select "pure direct" on the multi channel input. I'm at the office right now but when I get home I'll confirm that. I don't think you can apply the any of the DSP soundfields over top of the signal though - I'll try to confirm that as well.

Can you feed the V2700 a 1080P signal via component video inputs and output the same 1080P signal over HDMI?

We talked at length and he read from the owners manual that when selecting Multi Channel Input all DSP processing is eliminated and the signal is passed directly through.

He said only the Z9 is capable of analog bass management and even then its not how an ICBM works.

The guy seemed pretty sharp and from my conversation seemed to understand exactly what I was talking about.

The only reason the Z9, Denon, and a few others do it is because they use iLink so the signal is totally digital until after the DSP.

If it did it I'd love it because with the going rate for 2600's, plus selling my ICBM, I could get a 2700 for a moderate upgrade charge.

Please, no flaming. I really like Yamaha for receivers, but I really need to replace my old RX-930. I loved reading this thread and it certainly helped me understand the many strengths of the 2700 and a few of the weaknesses. My question is this, is the 2700 still the right purchase if I'm going to purchase in the next few months, or is there something on the horizon that looks more promising, either from Yamaha or someone else? The lack of upscaling to 1080p and the elusive HDMI 1.3 come to mind, but I don't want to get stuck in analysis parallysis either.

Here's my current config:

• Sony KDL-46XBR2 that accepts 1080p via HDMI (3 total).

• Motorola DCT-6200 cable box that outputs 1080i HD via DVI or component

• Older Panasonic DVR, no HD

• Older Sony high end single CD player, optical output

• XBOX360 that outputs 1080p via VGA cable which the XBR2 has (no HDMI output on the 360)

I'm considering the following changes soon also:

• Remove DVR and upgrade to a cable set top box with HD DVR built in. Not sure, but think this would give HDMI out.

• Replace Sony CD player with something new, like a combo DVD and CD player, with progressive scan and upconvert built in. If the whole HD-DVD vs BlueRay standar battle was more clear I'd probably go with one of those HD DVD formats.

Appreciate any thoughts before I pull the trigger on the V2700. As you can see from how long I've had my last receiver, I plan to live with it for years to come and want to make sure I do the best I can now, but not keep waiting for the next incremental technology.

~bill

You're beautiful. I'm right here with you.

I'm annoyed (mostly at myself if you want to be honest) at the idea that I've only owned my current receiver for barely two years and I'm even tempted to do something like this.

Right, it doesn't have A/D converters on the multichannel inputs so all it can do is pass them through. You can set the volume trims but nothing else.

yes, definitely. you have to jump in at some point. I think you'll be set for a while with this receiver. Essentially, you'll have excellent audio capability, for, both, multi-channel and stereo music sources; excellent DSP for DVD-Movies and music sources; excellent video-processing w/HDMI (with 1080p and HD audio capability); etherNET/PC connectivity and more.


there's always something, on the horizon, that looks promising (the RX-V2700 was just that only a few months back). But by the time that next big "more promising" thing comes around there will be some new "bigger promising" thing, combined with it's own set of reasons, to wait for.

Happened to be browsing around for a place to buy a RX-V2700. Heard Tweeter might have them a little cheaper this week, but decided to check Amazon. They were reasonable, but noticed their supplier was Etronics. Googled to their site, and seem to have stumbled on to a very sweet deal there.

~bill

billprew,

I would just make sure that you have an understanding that 1700 / 2700 models have the LFE -10db low problem just like a lot of other receivers (when you are bring LPCM into the receiver through HDMI). However, there are three receivers that do not have the LFE issue because of ajustments that can be made.

Frank

No offense or flame, but I would'nt be overly concerned about this issue. And I would still prefer this [Yamaha] model over the Pioneer Elite VSX-82TXS (or even the VSX-84TXSi for that matter).

WestCoastD,

Why wouldn't someone want to be overly concerned about this. When you play a HD-DVD or Blu-Ray movie and connect the player to the receiver via analouge / HDMI the LFE level is going to be about -10db. It is a difference that everyone can clearly hear. As all of the PS3 owners whether or not this an issue to them.

Frank

Some good info being debated here. After buying a Samsung HL-S5687w 1080p TV I am looking to upgrade my RX-V2400 to either the RX-V2700 or the VSX-84TXSi. I miss letting the receiver do all the switching. It made life a lot less complicated. I now have my Comcast HD-PVR (yuck) plugged into the first HDMI port and my Oppo 970 plugged into the second. Now I have no more ports left to plug in my HTPC or any other new goodies I buy in the future. I've always had yammie receivers and have been quite happy with there performance. I found the lack of THX in the new 2700 a little unsettling at first but I can probably live without it, although I rather have the THX and let Yamaha cut back on their ridiculous amount of soundfields they offer. (Does anyone actually use all these?)
I am a little concerned over this LFE bug however. Will either Yamaha or Pioneer offer firmware upgrades to fix this in the future? Since it seems so prevelant I just may live with what I have for another year. (if I can hold out that long )

Is there a thread that summarizes this problem well, and it's effects and implications? I'd like to understand it better. I did a few quick searches and gather this relates to the low freq channel, but don't know what the symptoms are, etc.

~bill

Check out this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6&page=1&pp=30

and this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=748147

Frank

You better take a closer look at some of that feedback.

I, for one, am incredibly discouraged by the lack of competitive pricing out there right now from anything above black and gray market.

In general, I'm seeing all the authorized online dealers for just about all the major manufacterers sticking to a hard MSRP or close to it. Getting a nice deal on Yamaha products seems impossible with any authorized dealers.

That's ridiculous. Do they WANT us to go gray market?

Hey westcoastd,

I will be receiving a 2700 here shortly along with aperion 7.1 surround. SVS nsd 12 sub. Any suggestions that would get me off and running without ruining everything. Thanks.

keep looking, I found the 60XBR2 for $2600 11/09/06 non-grey market and plan on doing the same for the 2700. On the 2700, I have until the first week of Feb. to make the buy.

Tony

If you find something, let me know.

you chose the SVS sub, have you looked at the Cambridge subs or any others before making your decision? I'm looking as well...

Tony

I'm thinking $1000/$1100 plus shipping. Maybe wishful thinking...

I looked at quite a few. Although I didn't look at the Cambridge. I've heard good things about the new HSU. I will see how the svs does, but almost wish I went with the new HSU.

That's not wishful thinking. You can have 5 yr warranty included with that price