HELP: Denon 4306 vs Pioneer VSX-84-TXSI

They just installed the 4306 in my office, that's one impressive piece of equipment, it blows the pioneer away. One advice the 4306 is a little complicated to set up and can be intimidating, otherwise this is one hell of a system, If you wanna save some bling I would opt for the 2807 and use the rest towards a bigger screen. If you have the extra bling get the 4306 hands down and I would get the extended warantee and buy it with a credit card that extends your warantee (some american express and master cards doubles manufacturers warantee).

I haven't heard either, but for the most part the Pioneer has a better feature set.

So you have had direct experience with both pieces in the same environment?

I have and I won't say one blows the other away
They are both very nice units.
I just feel the 84 is a little nicer
Why?
I like MCACC over Audyssey
I like 4 HDMI 1.2 inputs over 3 HDMI 1.1
I like THX Select2 over NO THX
I like iLink over DenonLink because I prefer Pioneer DVD players to Denon.


dc

I wouldn't bet on that...

I have the Pioneer, and aside from a couple of operational quirks, it's one of the best AVRs I've ever owned. However, I could only imagine that the Denon has better quality DACs and processing. If the price of the Denon is the same to you as the Pioneer (the Denon does have a MSRP of $500 more), and you don't mind the fewer features of the Denon, you may want to go with the 4306. The scaler in the Pioneer isn't anything special, so don't let that be the basis of your decision.

The scaler in the 84 may not be anything special but at least it's there for those who can utilize it.
As far as the DACs and processing being better in the 4306
if so (I think NOT), they don't transfer to better AQ, imho

dc

I see that the Denon uses high quality Burr Brown DACs. I thought otherwise before, but the DACs of my PC sound card seem to be better than the Pioneer's. For instance, a multichannel analog connection from my PC's sound card generates much less hiss noise than when using a digital connection to the Pioneer. Also, my sound card sounds better for some sources than when letting the Pioneer handle them digitally. If anyone could tell me otherwise about the Denon, that would be great.

And yes, the quality of the DACs matter a whole lot in how a component transfers sound. Digital-to-analog conversion is the most sensitive part of the process.

Both are real nice receivers. You would probably be happy with either one. The only way you can decide for sure is to try them both out and determine which one YOU prefer!

I just purchased the Pioneer VSX-82 model 2 weeks ago and I am very happy with it. I Listened to several Denon models and 2 Pioneer models at my nearest Magnolia home there. They went through 3 sets of different price range speakers with all these receivers and I was really impressed with the Pioneer, although had almost made up my mind about Denon. From what I was told is that Pioneer is recommended more for movie stuff vs Denon for music. If you have a chance to listen to both, I suggest that you do. I guess it's personal preference. Good luck.

Interesting...
I have the SqueezeBox by SlimDevices which has internal BurrBrown DACs which sound very nice, but after months of switching the 84 between analog input or digital input (using the 84s DACs) I slightly prefer the 84 DACs.
They just sound a little cleaner, sweeter and more refined.
Different strokes for different folks

dc

Well there are different models of DACs by Burr-Brown. I believe the Squeezebox uses their 20-bit 1748 DAC, while the Denon has multiple 24-bit Burr-Brown 1791 DACs. The Pioneer 74 used the 1791 DACs as well, but I think they opted for something else for the 84, as Pioneer is tight-lipped this time around. It would be great to know what DACs the 84 actually uses.

I hope I didn't come off as discounting the sound quality of the Pioneer, because it produces great sound quality. I was just suggesting that the Denon probably has a better sound overall. But that could be entirely subjective. I've heard a few of their receivers and own one in my media room, but it is not the 4306, so my input is mostly theoretical. But it is somewhat practical in the sense that I really like the sound of the old AVR-2802 that I have in my non-home theater environment.

I chose the Pioneer 84 for a reason, and that's because it has an incredible feature-set and it is no slouch in the audio quality department. For $1,500, I personally couldn't do any better in my opinion.

Yes, for $1500 it's hard to imagine something better... at this point in time anyway.
My main squabble with the 4306, or any present Denon receiver for that matter, stems from Audyssey and it's negative effect (rolling off low bass frequencies, dulling the overall sound (dry sounding) and inconsistent auto setup results)
not to mention lack of eq result customizing options and so on.
I must have attempted (with 5805, 4306 & 3806) a hundred times to get Audyssey to sound better or at least as good as the uneq'd sound quality...
no luck.
It's pretty sad when you switch off the EQ system and you prefer that sound quality to the EQ'd

dc

I have a 74TXVi and before that had a 3806. I decided to return the 3806 for the 74 for features and after many in store demos found I liked the SQ of the Pioneer. To say the 4306 "blows the Pioneer away" to me is not accurate. I found the 3806 and the 74 to be both excellent receivers but preferred the 74. Another deciding factor could be that the 4306 is about $500.00 more than the 84. The best thing to do is to demo both units to see which one you prefer.

Bill

I've had the 4306 for a couple of weeks now, I did not perform a direct comparison against the Pioneer. These two receivers were in the final running, I ended up going with the Denon because I liked the feature set, in particular the Ethernet connectivity, USB port, and I wanted to give Audyssey a shot. I figured if I wasn't happy I could always return the Denon for the Pioneer within 30 days of purchase. I paid about $1500 for the 4306 from an authorized dealer

I ended up being very pleased with the 4306, it replaced a Yam 2095 receiver I'd had for the past seven years. The setup for the 4306 is not trivial as it has settings for a variety of listening scenarios (Direct/Stereo/Multichannel/etc.).

For my room with my speakers, Audyssey worked very well, as a matter of fact it equalized the bass as well as the BFD I had been using with my Yam 2095. Additionally, if you're not happy with Audyssey, you still have the option of using the nine band/channel graphic equalizer, which I believe offers the same frequency type adjustments as the Pioneer MCACC system.

Below is an excerpt from a post I made about my experience with Audysssey, if you search this and other forums you will find users who love Audyssey, and those who are unhappy with it. I'm sure if you search you will also find users who prefer their MCACC turned off. Bottom line, I think you'll be happy with either receiver, be sure to buy from someone who will at least let you exchange for a different model if you're unhappy with your purchase.

You can only play audio via the Ethernet connection, choices are MP3, WMA, and WAV. I believe that you can play Video back through the IPOD interface. Internet radio does not sound great, but it is interesting for background music, incredible variety of selections.

That sounds about right. 0 is not the maximum volume. The unit will go above 0. It is the volume that movies are mastered to. Meaning you're supposed to play them back at 0 to get the effect the sound mixer wanted. Most movie theaters are set around 0.

I'm interested to see what you find out....I'm debating between these two, or wait for the Yamaha RX-V2700 next month.

let me know how the 4306 compared to the 84tsxi

That story sounds suspect. Even if they were made at the same factory, what's that mean?

In my system there was NO comparison,
the 84 by a landslide
But you'll also get a lot of 4306 supporters.
Both are excellent units and fantastic values, imo of course.

dc

could you be more specific?

for example, did you like MCACC over Auddessey, and if so why? what part of the sound was better? the soundstaging, the depth perception, what?

the more details the better

At first I was attracted to the 84 for it's feature set,
4 HDMI 1.2 inputs
THX Select2 certification
iLink
Advanced MCACC with Phase Control and Standing Wave compensation (which really works... for me)
Faroudja DCDi HD Video Scaler with 1080P compatibility

I wasn't happy at all with the 4306 Audyssey system, rolling off bass frequencies and high frequencies, leading to a dull sound.
With the 4306 in my system it sounded much better with Audyssey defeated.

Now the combination of the 84 with MCACC active, everything is as it should be.
Crisp, clean sounding with strong powerful bass


dc

hi I'm also very keen on the 4306/84 comparism. Can some one give me some advice on:
1) HDMI 1.2 and 1.1: what real benefit does it have ? Neither pass TrueHD/DTS-HD so all will get PCM anyway isn't it ?
2) Scaler: both do 480i/p -> 480p/720p/1080i right ? i.e. both do deinterlacing and scaling correct ? Is there any reason one is better than the other ?
3) MCACC/Audessy: Is the MCACC same/different in the 59txi ? And the Audessy, is it the same in the 4806 ?
4) how abt the transformer section/ real power rating ?

I have a 59txi now. Although I'm perfectly happy with it, I want a HDMI avr to mate with the HD-A1 for TrueHD. I dun know whether this is a worthwhile "downgrade".

excellent questions!

I'm also interested in this, and dont care about the Power output, as I will be using it as a pre/pro

I had the impression that I was supposed to stay away from the Faroudja chip because of macroblocking issues. Why do you find this to be an asset given the macroblocking issue?

Macroblocking does not occur on all monitors.
And most macroblocking can be adjusted out with proper calibration.
I guess I'm one of the lucky ones as I haven't had macroblocking issues associated with Faroudja processing.

dc

Can anyone answer that one? I still don't quite understand the new audio formats and which device is doing what.