Hitachi FLICKER Issue...Good/Bad News - Page 10

Well Jason, given the recent developments, I think we're all more anxious than ever to hear from you. I'm not that interested in a fix anymore, as I think its going to take something pretty major to undo what they set out to do. To me, I'm not going to hang a Plasma on my wall and tolerate it while the manufacturer tries to make it better at my expense. But I know a lot of these guys need a solution. Go get 'em.

CD

Anyone heard from Jason recently? Looks like he hasn't posted in a few days. I, along with everyone else, am anxious to hear if he has an update from his Engineer contact.

CD

Guys, I was actually watching my set last night...you know, them DVD things...not tinkering, as I've likely made the decision to switch sets. But as I was sitting there, annoyed by my flicker as always, I decided that maybe, in the short run, I'll try that 100% Contrast thing. After all, who cares if I burn out the panels, the set is going back soon anyway. And you know what, on my set, it STILL didn't resolve the issue.

CD

Well, I've said it before Delphi, but I think what makes the set jump out like that is the resolution. Now trust me, that's no small thing; resolution is significant IMO and I love the fact that this set is 1080i. It makes it look GREAT with STB that output at 1080i and I'm really curious how DVDs look upconverted to it (I might have to try it, even though I'm 99% ready to return this set).

However, the color decoder has proven in tests to be pretty inaccurate. Now, I agree, you trust your eyes and not specs, but I will say that, unfortunately, this set does have a pretty small "sweet spot". For example, I think we all agree that Color Temps other than STD are horrendous. And you have to be careful comparing Black Levels. I think you said you couldn't really get at the controls of the 42HDS69, so you don't know if the store had any Black Enhancement on. If so, yes, the blacks may have looked as dark as the Panny, but the real issue is not how dark it will go, but how dark it will go and still retain Black detail.

I agree with you that it is really a well-made and overall good-looking set, minus its one big flaw. That's why I don't have a hard time believing that the "flicker" issue is some sort of trade-off; otherwise, we'd have the best 42" set on the market...or at the very least, the best bang for the buck.

CD

Jason, I guess you have caught up on the thread and read my latest e-mails. I really am not trying to kill everyone's hopes, and I have nothing but the highest regard for all the work you are putting in to help resolve this issue (I myself have worked hard on it as well, albeit in a different way), but I have to say my gut tells me this "Engineer" is just giving us lip service.

First of all, in all due respect, how sure can we be he's an "Engineer" and how, even though you're a calibrator, did you get through to him? I mean Hitachi wouldn't even let me speak to their Service Technician Support (they practically yelled at me for even having the number) and I always know more than ANYBODY I talk to at Hitachi, because I live with the problem 24/7 and have spent hours fettering it out.

I mean, what you say about having to start with the dumb stuff, like making sure everyone has the latest firmware, I understand; believe me, I'm in IT and that's always where we start too. But at the same time, being in IT, I know that's usually a CYA too...and we pray to god that it fixes an issue if we have no other reason to explain why it's not working in the first place.

I'm more confused than ever because I just don't understand you guys who say "I see it on this" or "I've seen it twice"; either I have the worst luck in the world and have gotten the two worst 42HDS69s Hitachi ever built, or I have just gotten to be such an expert at spotting this thing that I could have ANY ONE of you over, bring ANY dvd you like, and I will show you this thing adjust it's Contrast up and down at will.

That's why I'm bailing. I just can't see this whole source, title, chapter, input, etc. I mean, I see it in EVERYTHING. I did that very detailed test for my own piece of mind, to make sure there was no acceptable combination of settings to eliminate the adjustment; and I shared with the thread to whatever benefit it might have been to them. But I see this "issue" on every dvd, every scene were there is low light, I've tried all inputs, 2 different DVD players, etc.

Whoever suggested it is right: there is no way this "Engineer" can offer a fix until he really knows what we're talking about. And short of him coming to someone's house, that's just not going to happen. He's going to take all this info, compile it, suggest EVERYONE get updated firmware, and for those of us who really know what we're looking for, it won't change one damn thing. By that time, anyone who had a chance to exchange their set, will be out of time and SOL.

Again Jason, this is not to minimize your efforts, but I think any owner with this issue (and god bless the few of you who say you don't have it) has got to make a decision right now: can you LIVE with this, because the good features of these sets make it worth the trade-off, or do you need to bail?

CD

Well, I just watched War of the Worlds on HBOHD. I was anxious to see it, because the STB isn't usually hooked up to the 42HDS69; we keep it in the bedroom, as I was planning on a CableCard for the plasma. I have drug it downstairs once or twice, for football and such, and it's usually been harder to see "flicker" with the STB. So here I had a movie, on HD, that I could watch on the STB and...a whole lotta flicker going on.

Jason, you've heard me describe on many occasions how my set adjusts it's own Contrast; the black screen with white pause test (or, you can do it with a black screen and change your Day/Night settings, as that puts light into a black screen for a few seconds and then disappears too). Can you, or anyone else, honestly say your set doesn't shift its own Contrast down when it senses light leaving a dark scene? I mean, it happens so naturally with both my sets, it just HAS to be on purpose; it is MEASURED steps down in darkness, as bright light leaves a dark (or solidly black) screen.

And as far as the "flicker" goes, like if you have an image paused and you see it "pulsing" lighter and darker, to me, that is the set stuck in a particular scene where it is confused about whether to step up one level of Contrast or Brightness or step down one level...because, as I have written, the PMHD III processor is trying to anticipate and optimize each frame for the best possible setting. Sometimes you pause a movie and it doesn't pulse-flicker; that's because you paused at a scene where the PMHD III wasn't stuck between deciding up or down, so it holds its settings steady.

But I must be the crazy one. TS fixed his with an upgrade (even though NO ONE else has been able to) and my set was made in AUGUST and already has V0115.0001; and Jason doesn't see it much. Maybe I should be asking this: how are you guys LOOKING? I mean, are you just turning on the game, or dark scenes, and watching? Sometimes action happens to fast (unless you know exactly what you're looking for...I can pick it out every time); is anyone actually pausing, trying my step-down test, anything?

Yeah, this has got to stop. I don't know what to do anymore. Like I said, I must have gotten the 2 worst sets Hitachi pumped out; with 2 different production dates, with 2 different versions of firmware, from 2 different Circuit Cities, in 2 different states (!). My bad luck I guess.

Well, maybe I'll do this; maybe I'll go ahead and have a Tech come to my house (even though I've already had someone from Hitachi tell me the set is supposed to do this and that if its that noticeable to me, I should just go with a different model). I have to be able to show SOMEONE what this thing does. And maybe I'll ask him to post, just so you guys don't think I'm CRAZY.

I swear, my friend has a Panasonic Pro-HD video camera; if I had the time and inclination, I'd have him shoot a little demo reel and post it here in this thread. Before you get your hopes up, like I said: I don't have either the time, or especially the inclination. This set has already been more trouble than anyone should have to go through. I'm almost considering pulling the damn wall-mount down from over the fireplace and buying a 61" DLP set instead.

CD

I think its a good thought Meyecul. Let me tell you of my own experience: when I got my first 42HDS69, I opened it up, and played a few things briefly, just to get a sense of my new toy. I think I played like Ice Age and Finding Nemo, you know, Pixar is great for showing off PQ. I've also since found, it's very hard to detect flicker with those titles. So I didn't notice anything (not that I knew what to look for at that point) and then I didn't do any critical viewing until the set had run a solid 100 hours with the break-in DVD.

Now, when I got my replacement set, I started watching right away. I knew I wasn't keeping it, if the same issue cropped up again, so I wasn't that worried about burn-in or anything. Now of course it was doing the flicker/adjustment thing, but another thing I noticed is that it looked AWFUL, in a way I never noticed before. Based on that, it is my contention that this set needs a good break-in period to perform its best.

Now, while that might just sound like the Plasma mantra, I think some sets are probably better "out of the box" than others and this one, at least this second sample, did not do well.

If this issue does go away, or decrease over time, then I don't understand Hitachi not being aware of it, not addressing it in a manual or service announcement...nothing. As you guys can probably tell, I'm really reeling from it. This was a tough enough decision to make in the first place and now its even tougher to know if you're settling or if help is on the way. I just wanna watch TV!!

CD