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Adjusting the AE900's convergence - Page 2

post #31 of 105
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by frank456 View Post

scenaria: Your unit must be the rotten apple in the basket to see your display description from over 16' away. My previous units with a 1 pixel misconvergence could not be seen further than 3 feet away. I feel for you. But take heart that yours is a 'rare' exception.

I'm the second rare exception ...
I can see the red fringes on top and to the left of all white bands (with the associated bluish green at opposite edges) from my seated position which is 14 feet away. This is on all subtitles or text in a movie as well as shirt collars as scenaria mentions --- watching the US Open last weekend of course put the white borders on the court in a new "light"

I've got a month of warranty left on mine ... I'll follow scenaria's lead and send it out this weekend to Heartland.
post #32 of 105
Reading the manuel, it tells you to cut the 4 LCD panel installation spindles with snippers. These are the spindles that each LCD is glued to. Then it says to use the base plate, panel attachment, and panel adjuster to reattach the LCD panel to the optical block. This is all well and good, but where are these three parts? They certainly do not come with any of the AE900U's that I or anyone else at Heartland have worked on. The manuel doesn't even have a part number for these three parts. If anyone knows how to get a hold of these parts, or what the part number is, please let me know. Thanks.
post #33 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by scenaria View Post

welp...I just got a delivery confirmation from fedex that the 900 has been received by heartland.

<-- crossing fingers that it comes back better than it left.


We just about got yesterday's inbound units completed today. I'll keep an eye out for yours tomorrow and see what I can do
post #34 of 105
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFent View Post

Reading the manuel, it tells you to cut the 4 LCD panel installation spindles with snippers. These are the spindles that each LCD is glued to. Then it says to use the base plate, panel attachment, and panel adjuster to reattach the LCD panel to the optical block. This is all well and good, but where are these three parts? They certainly do not come with any of the AE900U's that I or anyone else at Heartland have worked on. The manuel doesn't even have a part number for these three parts. If anyone knows how to get a hold of these parts, or what the part number is, please let me know. Thanks.

How do you adjust the convergence at Heartland? I know that scenaria has sent in his unit (and I will be sending mine too later this week), so if the conv is off, what steps are taken?

Thx!
post #35 of 105
Mrfent: I have seen many projector models previously in the past which had 'different' methods in which the internal components were secured. I had 2 OPTOMA H81 projectors last year ( just to get off topic temporarily ) which did not even resemble internally what the service manuals stated. I have seen mid year production revisions on a lot of different manufacturer products.


This is why service techs lose there minds.

In all serious cases I just throw the book out the window and tackle the problems from previous experience. Boy do I hate this job sometimes.

TVTED's description of the internal layout has been seen on the previous 3 units I have had dismantled. But there are and 'will be' exceptions no doubt about it so welcome to the club and the ever debateable forum.
post #36 of 105
Does anyone have the software listed in the Service manual thus that even if the cables were bought, what software is to be used to edit the values?
post #37 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFent View Post

We just about got yesterday's inbound units completed today. I'll keep an eye out for yours tomorrow and see what I can do


it came from "oviedo florida" under the name Steve Yost

I'd really appreaciate it
post #38 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFent View Post

Reading the manuel, it tells you to cut the 4 LCD panel installation spindles with snippers. These are the spindles that each LCD is glued to. Then it says to use the base plate, panel attachment, and panel adjuster to reattach the LCD panel to the optical block. This is all well and good, but where are these three parts? They certainly do not come with any of the AE900U's that I or anyone else at Heartland have worked on. The manuel doesn't even have a part number for these three parts. If anyone knows how to get a hold of these parts, or what the part number is, please let me know. Thanks.

Ok, now I understand what you mean by "glue". It isn't glue, its a plastic post (or spindle as it is referred to in the 700 manual) and cutting this is not required for MC adjustment, as far as I can tell. The Panel Adjuster locking screws can still be loosened and the panel moved per the instructions in section 7.4 of the 700 service manual.

I would imagine the LCD block (which is removed from the chassis by removing two screws according to the manual) was created as a unit assembly to simplify manufacturing, but for field servicing where only 1 panel might need replacing, these spindles must be cut. What might be confusing is that the service manual describes the Convergence alignment procedure in light of panel replacement which makes sense from a servicing point of view.

Again this is is only necessary if there is a requirement for panel replacement which it is not per the original topic of this thread. So the need for these parts is precluded.

Would I personally advise someone to undertake this? Not unless they've some expertise with sticking sharp metal objects into boxes which have a voltage potential across several wires and the warranty has waned. However, the information you are providing does not specifically address the issue and at best only serves to confuse.

ted
post #39 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankar View Post

How do you adjust the convergence at Heartland? I know that scenaria has sent in his unit (and I will be sending mine too later this week), so if the conv is off, what steps are taken?

Thx!

It depends on the model. There are certain models (like the LC56,75,80, PTL735, 780, & 785) where you can adjust the convergence by loosening screws and adjusting the panels by hand. There are other models (Like the LB10,20,30,50 60, and the PTAE700 and 900s that you can not adjust the convergence. If your convergence is off bad enough (by ours and Panasonic's standards, sorry to say.. not yours), the only option is to replace the optical block with one who's convergence is hopefully much improved. I will say however, that out of the many many optical blocks I have replaced on the 700s and 900s, I have never come across a brand new block that had perfect convergence.
post #40 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvted View Post

...I would imagine the LCD block (which is removed from the chassis by removing two screws according to the manual) was created as a unit assembly to simplify manufacturing, but for field servicing where only 1 panel might need replacing, these spindles must be cut. What might be confusing is that the service manual describes the Convergence alignment procedure in light of panel replacement which makes sense from a servicing point of view.

Lets not keep debating this issue, tvted, open up your projector, take out the optical block, and look for yourself. You'll see what I mean. Let me know what you find. Thanks.
post #41 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFent View Post

If your convergence is off bad enough (by ours and Panasonic's standards, sorry to say.. not yours), the only option is to replace the optical block with one who's convergence is hopefully much improved. I will say however, that out of the many many optical blocks I have replaced on the 700s and 900s, I have never come across a brand new block that had perfect convergence.

So, just curious - how bad must the convergence on a AE900 be for Panny/Heartland to agree to fix it? The convergence on my 900 has always been off enough to bother me, but I'm hesitant to send it in only to be told it's "within tolerances".

-Sean
post #42 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnsean View Post

So, just curious - how bad must the convergence on a AE900 be for Panny/Heartland to agree to fix it? The convergence on my 900 has always been off enough to bother me, but I'm hesitant to send it in only to be told it's "within tolerances".

-Sean

It varies with each model. Some of it depends on which LCD is out of place, and by how far. If it's really noticible while watching video, I'd generally say it needs to be fixed. Some people send in their units and are very picky. The say the can only see the problem on a still picture from 2-3 feet away. When they back up to a normal viewing distance, they cannot see it. This type of problem I don't consider to be bad enough to replace the whole optical block, because most new blocks are out of convergence slightly.
post #43 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFent View Post

Lets not keep debating this issue, tvted, open up your projector, take out the optical block, and look for yourself. You'll see what I mean. Let me know what you find. Thanks.

I see what you *mean*, I also disagree with your interpretation. It is evident you are unwilling to directly address the comments I've made with respect to the LCD block configuration, so yes we are done.

ted
post #44 of 105
Hi
This what MrFent writes, looks very unbelievably.
What claims the obvious, public way is conflicting from service manual.

The good question is why He does this?

Did he even try never maybe to regulate, because he simply does not know this to do?

We should however regulate one's projectors according to me. In spite of hints MrFent.
post #45 of 105
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marek301 View Post

Hi
This what MrFent writes, looks very unbelievably.
What claims the obvious, public way is conflicting from service manual.

The good question is why He does this?

Did he even try never maybe to regulate, because he simply does not know this to do?

We should however regulate one's projectors according to me. In spite of hints MrFent.

now, now ... be nice ... let's just agree to disagree. In all fairness, Mr. Fent is probably the one person amongst us who makes a living fixing these projectors and if he says that this is what his experience has shown him, we should respect that till we have conclusive evidence to the contrary. I for one have not looked inside my projector and am drawing all my conclusions poring over a service manual over and over again in the fervent hope that some new illumination will magically appear in my head!
post #46 of 105
Hi

Maybe MrFent has in 100% rights.

Does he want maybe to warn us from the sincere heart?

The time will show.
That is why I apologize MrFent.
post #47 of 105
Hi

I needs your help very much!

I have the possibility of the order bulp for Panny AE900, in the price $60 for

the unit.

One problem is however.
I have necessarily to know what there is the voltage of the current on which the

lamp works? Is this the current AC or DC ?

Can someone help and give information what there is the voltage?

Maybe different users of Panny AE900 will be also interested this lamps.
post #48 of 105
Scenaria,

Please let us know how you make out .

Thanks,Matt
post #49 of 105
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdeco View Post

Scenaria,

Please let us know how you make out .

Thanks,Matt

Yes, indeed!

My AE900U is on its way to Heartland ... Fedex tells me that it will be delivered on Wednesday ...
post #50 of 105
This topic has caught my attention and caused me to spend *way* too much time getting this post put together. I can only hope that one of you will spend a moment to examine these pictures and give me an opinion on the cause of some anomalies I'm seeing.

http://mysite.verizon.net/stephenrjr/index.htm

I'd appreciate any thoughts on:
  • Am I seeing MC or CA?
  • What is happening at solid color boundaries?
  • Have others experienced this, too?

Thanks,
-Stephen
post #51 of 105
I have been lurking on this forum for awhile and have struggled with the convergence on my month-old AE900. I finally sent it in the other day to Heartland and decided to post a before and after picture.

I'll post the "after" when I get my rig back in 1-2 weeks. Here's hoping the picture is vastly improved.
LL
post #52 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrawl View Post

I have been lurking on this forum for awhile and have struggled with the convergence on my month-old AE900. I finally sent it in the other day to Heartland and decided to post a before and after picture.

I'll post the "after" when I get my rig back in 1-2 weeks. Here's hoping the picture is vastly improved.


I'm a first-time projector owner and have been trying to figure out if the picture I've been seeing is what you should expect or it can/should be better.

As soon as I have made my 5 initial posts, I'll provide a link to some detailed photos that demonstrate what I am seeing in several situations.

-Stephen
post #53 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephenrjr View Post

This topic has caught my attention and caused me to spend *way* too much time getting this post put together. I can only hope that one of you will spend a moment to examine these pictures and give me an opinion on the cause of some anomalies I'm seeing.

http://mysite.verizon.net/stephenrjr/index.htm

I'd appreciate any thoughts on:
  • Am I seeing MC or CA?
  • What is happening at solid color boundaries?
  • Have others experienced this, too?

Link to pictures now available - thanks for your help,
-Stephen
post #54 of 105
Seems as though your pictures show some red misconvergence. In my opinion, CA has a more subtle effect.

It is unclear to me how much MC Panasonic finds to be acceptable. I guess I'll find out after my unit is returned.

I believe the hump effect is the result of edge enhancement and normal.
post #55 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephenrjr View Post

Link to pictures now available - thanks for your help,
-Stephen

I purchased the AE900 a few weeks ago. Your pictures from the projector menu look nearly identical to mine. Red vertical lines are about the same width as white lines when looking at letters in the menu. I haven't decided if I'm going to send it in for repair.
post #56 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephenrjr View Post

Link to pictures now available - thanks for your help,
-Stephen

Stephen (if I may call you that),

I'll give it a try.

In my opinion you are seeing primarily MC. I would say Red shifted left and up for about a pixel. It can be non-uniform across the image if the panel is also rotated slightly. I also believe ther is a slight mis-convergence between the Grn and Blue as well.

CA is a subtler artifact that is wavelength dependent, occurring because each light wavelength bends differently as it passes through different mediums (diffraction) and would be most apparent at extremes of lens shift and outer portions of the frame.
See here.

In the colour bars pix the differences in the transitions is likely caused by the RED channel being OFF (well at least as well as LCD can be OFF ). For example in Image 9: In the Cyan and Green bars, Red should be effectively OFF which would mean that it would not introduce and colour fringing whereby in the Magenta to Green transition it would be affecting the Green. I also believe that one of the other channel is sub-pixel shifted as well, since the Green to Cyan transition is also slightly blended.

With image 11 (Blue to Red) the Green channel should be effectively OFF which would account for the black line as there is no Red (it is shifted) or Green (it is OFF) or Blue (it is one pixel away from the Red).

I also believe you've got some sharpening artifacts which are particularly apparent in Image 3 and Image 12. I've SHARPENING turned OFF for all my sources yet my 700 still exhibits some of this type of processing.

So for what its worth, those are my impressions. I'm quite willing to change them at a moments notice should someone point out the errors in my thinking.

ted
post #57 of 105
wow!

I'd kill to have my proj look like stephens.... my three colors actually are three lines.... very bad conv.

im really hoping the projector comes back looking better than when it left. :\\
post #58 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by scenaria View Post

wow!

I'd kill to have my proj look like stephens.... my three colors actually are three lines.... very bad conv.

im really hoping the projector comes back looking better than when it left. :\\

When I looked at your projector, I agree, your convergence was pretty bad. I replaced the optical block with one that I hope you will be happy with.
post #59 of 105
thanks a bunch

im out of town right now but when I get back home Im going to be itching to have a look at it. I had a feeling it would be easier to put in another block.
post #60 of 105
MrFent, please keep an eye out for my projector as well. Looks like it will be in the Heartland facility on Monday. Already in withdrawal. - Scrawl
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