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Ready to Buy another Toy - Which Plasma?  

post #1 of 100
9/9/06 at 11:01am
Thread Starter 
Okiedokie...............

These are my options:

- I can buy *right now* if I go Panny TH-50PH9UK, pay all in cash.

- Wait one week and I can buy Pioneer Pro FHD-1 ($3k down and charge the rest).



Which one should I get????? ya know... it's been driving me nuts cause I can't decide.



Something tells me that the 9UK will have better black levels and punchness. I know the color on the FHD-1 will be nice and the obvious increase in resolutions.

I've heard that the 9UK is one bad mutha. I've heard that the *red* has improved and 30% increase in black levels.

I donno man.. I donno......

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post #2 of 100
9/9/06 at 11:15am
Pioneer FHD. Let's see all the resolution! Just don't wax it ok?
post #3 of 100
9/9/06 at 11:59am
I would go with the 9UK. I think it will give you just as a good of a picture as the Pioneer with hundreds of dollars left in your pocket. I think you already have an older commercial panny and you've been happy with it, so i'm sure the 9UK will be a great step up without having to break out the credit card and owe money. But hey, whatever floats your boat.........it's your money.
post #4 of 100
9/9/06 at 12:07pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by orbital517 View Post

I would go with the 9UK. I think it will give you just as a good of a picture as the Pioneer with hundreds of dollars left in your pocket. I think you already have an older commercial panny and you've been happy with it, so i'm sure the 9UK will be a great step up without having to break out the credit card and owe money. But hey, whatever floats your boat.........it's your money.

I like the sound of your reasoning. I was kind of hoping to hear that. I too, think something tells me that the 9UK may even perform better than the FHD-1 in certain things. I do respect the Pioneer products and all mightie FHD-1 for true high def, but what bothers me is that as you and a lot of us know, the newer and better TVs from other manufacturers will come soon. I see this pattern, obviously. Wouldn't you agree?



assJack, my laptop LCD screen is waxed with a car wax too, as I type.
post #5 of 100
9/9/06 at 12:10pm
As you are comparing $7000 plus display with a $2500 display. It shows how great a value the Panny is that you would even consider it with the Pioneer. I am a Panny fan but have seen some new Sonys (among others) that give great images, lovely colors. I believe LCD and Plasma are neck and neck now and LDC make have a better shot of improvement in the future. These Sonys are 1080p as you know. $7000 is much too much to pay (for me) at this stage of the 1080p game. I only consider it a step upward in quality not a giant step by any means. Remember 480i and 480p debates? When we move onto 1440p or 2160i that will probably be a giant step in resolution. Of course, other technowlogies may take over by then. These 1080p sets will drop sharply in price the next 2 years and the 1080i/720p sets will become real bargains. Anyone for a Panny 50 inch display for $1500?
post #6 of 100
9/9/06 at 12:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by orbital517 View Post

I would go with the 9UK. I think it will give you just as a good of a picture as the Pioneer with hundreds of dollars left in your pocket.

I fail to understand the logic behind this. The additional resolution will do amazing wonders to PQ. Saying that the Panny will do as good is plain silly.
post #7 of 100
9/9/06 at 12:28pm
Thread Starter 
assJack, not really... from what we've heard from well experienced forum members who have actually seen/tested the FHD-1 saw very small increase in PQ in high def. It is still better, due to native 1080p physical display panel, and the color accuracy is superb, but there are still somethings that are not as good as the 768p plasma(Panny and Pio). The more and more I read on the subject, the more it is convincing that the Panny 9UK's will outdo FHD-1 in black levels and punchness. The color on the 9UK has also improved, the red rendering especially..... But I thank you for your comments and posting.
post #8 of 100
9/9/06 at 1:06pm
I have taken several complete days to check out all new displays. The 1080p sets over the 1080i is a step upward..nothing more ..nothing less. The main thing that will give you a quality picture on either display is the quality of the images sent thru them. Remember the differences between 480i and 480p? And, being new to the scene, these 1080p displays are priced too high. Wait for 2nd and third generation in them. they will be the norm in a couple of years. The value (and a good quality picture) lies with the new generation of 720p/1080i sets. The Panny 50 inch commercial (mid-2000) is the way to go for a great picture and very good value.
post #9 of 100
9/9/06 at 1:30pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks Richard, your logic sounds very reasonable. I too think that the person is pay too much for one step upward. The resoltuions are important but many of the viewers(including Rich H.) there are obviously the other things are critically involved when determining final PQ, such as color rendition, contrast and black levels(essentially they are highly releated to each other). Punchiness is one of the things I require. It's like you're in plasma heaven when you watch movies, feels like you are in the scene.


Anyone else want to add about anything that I should know with the display, the Panny and Pio FHD-1? I still have time to make the final decision because it's Saturday.....
post #10 of 100
9/9/06 at 1:38pm
the 800 pound gorilla in the room is lack of significant 1080P content..
heck, once i saw an HD broadcast, i can barely stand watching standard cable on my 50" panny. The only problem is the lack of HD broadcasting....

the panny has a mighty fine image, and at current prices, is an excellent value.

get the panny now, and if you have buyers regret...well do like my sig says..get both (except wait a year, and the price on the 1080P plasma will drop so much, you'll end up getting the panny for free)
post #11 of 100
9/9/06 at 1:48pm
Don't you consider a 50" kind of Puny for HT? Especially at 1080P? Samsung, Sharp, and Sony 52" are here within weeks - Samsung can be had for $3699. Samsung has a 57" that can be had for $7K and next year (first half) Samsung sends a 70" 1080P LCD at 120Hz into production.

Doesn't the 65" Panny 1080P make more sense than the Pio at $7500?
post #12 of 100
9/9/06 at 1:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by IamAnoobieCheez View Post

assJack, not really... from what we've heard from well experienced forum members who have actually seen/tested the FHD-1 saw very small increase in PQ in high def. It is still better, due to native 1080p physical display panel, and the color accuracy is superb, but there are still somethings that are not as good as the 768p plasma(Panny and Pio). The more and more I read on the subject, the more it is convincing that the Panny 9UK's will outdo FHD-1 in black levels and punchness. The color on the 9UK has also improved, the red rendering especially..... But I thank you for your comments and posting.

Go with your gut feel...but before you do...let me toss my hat as a very experienced individual. I have played with 768p, 1080p, 2048p panels since 1997. Got to love working hi-tech. Back then they were hand built one of a kind units. Everything was custom. (We manufactured literally everything). I can not tell you how many evaluations we went through analyzing every progressive / interlaced source resolution we could imagine. (Got boring after a while). Our source data was incredibly highly scanned film. I quickly found that bleeding edge fun comes with report writing. Every trend showed increased resolution came with increaed percieved PQ.

So yes I do consider myself experienced and do hope you realize that resolution is the primary PQ determinant. Seeing glorious 1080p in my home will be a road well traveled.

Cheers!
post #13 of 100
9/9/06 at 1:51pm
Another option, (sorry if it's been mentioned already): Pioneer Elite 1140HD.
Bish
post #14 of 100
9/9/06 at 2:08pm
I'd definitely prefer the PRO-FHD1, especially for the upcoming 1080p Pioneer BD player & 1080p HD DVD player. Plus, it's native resolution is 1080p and it scales everything up nicely. If I got the TH-50PH9UK or PDP-5070HD then I'd want to upgrade within 6 months to a year. Hmm, maybe you should get a TH50PHD8UK or PRO-5070HD from Costco and return it for a full refund when a 1080p Pioneer or Panasonic plasma is released with HDMI 1.3 for < $5k (2nd or 3rd quarter 2007 is likely). I've never bought anything from Costco but from what everyone says they are the best rental store around.

I don't think I could bring myself to do such an act though. It just feels wrong, even though they wouldn't give you a hassle and would put cash in your hand when you were ready to return the item. Now if you wanted the best warranty around and the best local retail price then the PDP-5070HD from Costco is the best bang for the buck.

I'm stuck between the PDP-5070HD and the PRO-FHD1. I'm worried that the black levels of the 1080p are inferior to the PDP-5070HD, and that HDMI 1.3 is just around the corner along with big price drops. I'm still on the sidelines using my trusty Sony 34" XBR tube in the meantime. I may just go with the PDP-5070HD since the optimal settings are already available from other members, it's a major upgrade in PQ and size from my tube TV, the price is reasonable, love the piano black look, & it accepts 1080p.
post #15 of 100
9/9/06 at 2:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebishman View Post

Another option, (sorry if it's been mentioned already): Pioneer Elite 1140HD.
Bish

I'm sure the 1140HD is superb but I don't like the side mounted speaker look. Now the look of the PRO-FDH1 is growing on me. Everytime I see it I like it more, such as the blue LED & the lack of any mounted speaker(s). A high end design, it's defintiely the cream of the crop flat panel for "now".
post #16 of 100
9/9/06 at 2:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by assJack1 View Post

I fail to understand the logic behind this. The additional resolution will do amazing wonders to PQ. Saying that the Panny will do as good is plain silly.

Just because something looks good on paper doesn't always equate to better results in real life. I don't question that the Pioneer won't have better resolution over the 9UK, but I don't think it is leaps and bounds better the the TOTAL picture quality between both sets. The difference in picture quality will be minimal, not a huge giant leap where I feel that the cost difference is worth it. Retailers and manufacturors are marketing 1080p as the best thing since sliced bread and the average consumer will eat it up and think it's true.
post #17 of 100
9/9/06 at 2:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by orbital517 View Post

Just because something looks good on paper doesn't always equate to better results in real life. I don't question that the Pioneer won't have better resolution over the 9UK, but I don't think it is leaps and bounds better the the TOTAL picture quality between both sets. The difference in picture quality will be minimal, not a huge giant leap where I feel that the cost difference is worth it. Retailers and manufacturors are marketing 1080p as the best thing since sliced bread and the average consumer will eat it up and think it's true.

Agreed about buying purely off of specs - believe me I know. However, we are talking about Pioneer here. This is not a cheap display pulled off the shelf at Walmart. I am very confident that comming from Pio the units specs will out perform the 9UK. It wont be minimal - you'll see when you eventually get one.

I agree with the marketing hype is hype. The average consumer doesnt know jack. However you and I know better. That is why we frequent AVS. 1080p is the real thing.

Cheers.
post #18 of 100
9/9/06 at 2:25pm
I've seen the FHD next to a variety of good 50 inch plasmas and while it is minimally better at a close viewing distance it is not anywhere worth the extra ka-ching to anyone who keeps close tabs on their checkbook. Further back with the viewing distance and pop the Pepsi Challenge on it and it gets dicey.................
post #19 of 100
9/9/06 at 2:38pm
Cheezie
Go to a B&M like I did, bring with you pitch black in hd and ask to try on the displays you are interested in, that's what i did and ended up with the fhd1 imo smoked anything near including the fuji and the panny, dark scene had details on the pio that just where not present in other displayes. I am very happy with mine after having it professionally calibrated the display is truly in it's own league. One more thing, enough of the F$%^^ blacks from panasonic, few fanboys repeat the same S$%^ over and over and like someone famous said if you repeat the same lie over and over the mass will believe it. If you are concerned about money then buy the 9uk but don't post here saying you picked it because the blacks where better, it's becoming a pattern in this forum, panasonic is the best bang for the buck but NOT the best display out there not even close IMO. Remember there are a lot's of colors in the rainbow Are you selling your 7uk?
Good luck man let us know
post #20 of 100
9/9/06 at 3:13pm
Thread Starter 
westa6969, thanks for the recommendation but... I prefer a plasma. Yea it's for my HTPC but do not need anything larger than a 50"...


assJack, thanks for sharing with me about your profession. I do respect your knowledge about AV. Like i've said, the comments are appreciated.

The stuff I will be watching as follows:

- 95% of Japanese HD contents in 1080i and 1080p.
- 3% SD DVD movies
- 2% other SD contents
- 0% broadcast(no matter what type it is)
- All will be via HTPC.
- I will be getting a HD-DVD PC Drive once they become available, so I won't be getting any external HDDVD player.
post #21 of 100
9/9/06 at 3:16pm
Thread Starter 
cirob, the black levels are ultimately important and the Panny is simply known to have that strength which is one of things.. Having great black levels also reflects contrast and punchiness, which results in better sense of 3D depth. This is not the same thing has having better detail in the dark. I think the part you are mentioning is due to the higher native resolutions which will help define all resolvable detail that the HD/HD-DVD offers.. But this is not entirely the same as the "black levels". Until somebody has really experimented the FHD-1 in black level perforamnce I can't be convinced..... Even Rich H. has said that the black levels were good but still not as good as the Panny, same witth the punchness. I'm starting to get the impression that the FHD-1 *acts* more like 1080p LCD. I don't know why... Please beg the differ if you know this is not the case and explain to me.....

and the 7UY(it's not 7UK) will probably go to my family's home.
post #22 of 100
9/9/06 at 3:27pm
Thread Starter 
don't get me wrong though, having great detail is also very important.... so I'm not scratching the FHD-1 off the list or anything. I'm still being very considerate about this display...........


And to others, If I go Pio route it's gonna have to be either FHD-1 or Pro Elite 1130 or 1140.
post #23 of 100
9/9/06 at 3:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by IamAnoobieCheez View Post

cirob, the black levels are ultimately important and the Panny is simply known to have that strength which is one of things.. Having great black levels also reflects contrast and punchiness, which results in better sense of 3D depth. This is not the same thing has having better detail in the dark. I think the part you are mentioning is due to the higher native resolutions which will help define all resolvable detail that the HD/HD-DVD offers.. But this is not entirely the same as the "black levels". Until somebody has really experimented the FHD-1 in black level perforamnce I can't be convinced..... Even Rich H. has said that the black levels were good but still not as good as the Panny, same witth the punchness. I'm starting to get the impression that the FHD-1 *acts* more like 1080p LCD. I don't know why... Please beg the differ if you know this is not the case and explain to me.....

and the 7UY(it's not 7UK) will probably go to my family's home.

Cheezie so you telling me that you are buying a plasma that R Harkness likes
NOT what you like? Have you seen the display? If you think it looks like an lcd then save your time and money buy the panny.
Contrary to what other people do here I don't want to stear you in any direction I gave my opinion of what convinced me to spend double the money.
The fhd1 imo had better blacks, more detailed and deeper then the panny or fuji
like I said try to bring pitchblack with you that is the ultimate test for black levels
but please don't forget that sunny days are part of the equation
I tried to make an educated decision using parameters learned here, it worked for me I bought imo what was the better display.
One more thing personally I like to buy my toys in cash unless is 0% financing for a year.
Good luck
post #24 of 100
9/9/06 at 3:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post

Don't you consider a 50" kind of Puny for HT? Especially at 1080P? Samsung, Sharp, and Sony 52" are here within weeks - Samsung can be had for $3699. Samsung has a 57" that can be had for $7K and next year (first half) Samsung sends a 70" 1080P LCD at 120Hz into production.

Doesn't the 65" Panny 1080P make more sense than the Pio at $7500?

I'm gonna go with Westa on this... From the pictures you post it seems like you have wall space for a 65". Why not wait a few more months and get EVERYTHING you need in a new plasma? Besides the fact that if you sit more than 8' from your 50" 1080P your not likely to see the extra resolution there are other issues to consider...
Squeezing two million pixels on a 50" screen requires the smallest plasma pixel element ever made (probably by far). This brings up many questions regarding this new technology that have yet to be answered:
1) Is the light output at least half that of a 'normal' size pixel? (1/2 is OK because the number of pixels is doubled)
2) Is the pixel half-life as long?
3) Do the smaller pixels take more pre-charge and therefore have worse black levels?
4) Is the initial defective pixel rate higher?
5) What's their resistance to IR/Burn-In?
No one really knows the answer to these questions yet.

On the other hand, putting 2 million pixels on a 65" screen is not pushing the pixel size envelope much at all so you wind up dealing with a known property.

I'd say get the 9UK or wait for the 65" 1080P.
post #25 of 100
9/9/06 at 3:42pm
Thread Starter 
thanks cirob, the comments and opinions are welcome!! I appreciate them.

well you know I can't just buy the FHD-1 cash, pay in full, but I can do 3 grand down and charge 4k which then will be paid off in less than 4 months. hehe


Uh man.... give me some time to think... I gotta think this through......


btw, Rich H isn't the only person I depend on. I value Ken's words seriously and have trust in him. He sez it's good, it's good. It's that simple. I also respect BruZZi. He knows his stuff, professional. JerryNY is very good too... Must respect! assJack, I respect you too honey. The reason I mention this is because they have really good experience in what appears to be the picture that looks beautiful. but of course....... I need to be sure that I like the picture as well.
post #26 of 100
9/9/06 at 3:54pm
Thread Starter 
Two things, Richey, those questions are very good. I want to hear the answers on this too.

The second part you mentioned about the having 2 million pixels on a 65" is not so conjested is also a great point you brought...

I would like to have the 65"er.... but I feel it's little too big for my lilly apartment. I forgot to mention that my normal viewing distance will be 5ft *if* I get FHD-1, and maximum viewing distance of 8 ft(sitting on a sofa).

.
post #27 of 100
9/9/06 at 4:31pm
hey cheezer, first you are one brave dude waxing your plasma .

it the choice was the 50 9uk to the new 65" panny 1080p i would say go for it even if it meant laying some on credit for short time. The 69% increase in screen size alone would be a HUGE difference, although i understand it would be overkill in your room setup.

But 50" to 50" with some good guys posting the lack of any wow factor, or it not being as good as regular pioneer/pannys and top it off by $4k+ difference.......spend the cash not the credit and you'll be waxing the new 9 sooner than you think
post #28 of 100
9/9/06 at 4:39pm
I'm with Westa and Richey on this one. Space be damned! Get the 65" 1080p set!

I also agree with the FHD-1 pixel size comments. With pixels that small there is almost certainly a greater chance of having pixel defects.
post #29 of 100
9/10/06 at 8:02am
If the 65/1080p Panasonic is a player then it is a no brainer.....get it. That thing will be out of this world.
post #30 of 100
9/10/06 at 10:54am
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the help guys. I have purchased the Panasonic TH-50PH9UK with 2 day priorty shipping. Oh I can't wait.

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