Infinity Primus Owner's Thread - Page 102

I have switched between a 60\\80hz crossover and just running them straight. For music I always run straight and most movies I do too. The only time I crossover the 362s is if I'm watching a movie with a soundtrack that really needs ridiculous bass. The other 90% of the time there's no crossover. Before I bought the NAD t747 I couldn't do that since that amp in my Yamaha 5750 didn't have the guts to properly power the Infinity's. Whereas the NAD has plenty of clean power. So, the bass and mid-base are much more defined and articulate with this Amp. Plus, the older Yamaha didn't have any room calibration system so it was doubly disadvantaged. Still, it served well for many years and will soon move to a place of honor in my garage.

I just grabbed a quick snapshot of the setup. I don't have time to grab my Nikon d3100 and get a proper picture at the moment but I'll see about doing that once I've straightened up enough you can't see what a mess my place is at the moment.

Awesome! Looks clean and mean! If you don't mind me saying, is there no boxy sound from the center with it not being at the front edge of the cabinet?

Ya, that cabinet is the bane of my existence. You see, my wife really likes it and I'm ready to retire the old thing. But, considering that she's not given me too hard of a time on the rest of my upgrades I've been letting that one slide. Honestly, I've about given up on finding something we like enough to buy to replace the stand and I'm debating getting some wood working tools and seeing if I can build it myself.

To answer your question, I can't say I've ever noticed a boxiness to the sound. The center sits about 1-3" from the edge of the cabinet so I'm sure there's some reflections and potentially even worse. However, either my ears aren't that good or maybe my mind just tells my ears not to worry about it. Either way, the center seems to have the same quality sound and tone as the 362's so I haven't worried about it.

With my Yamaha it was possible to identify the individual speakers, including the center, on most content. Since I switched to the NAD the blend has improved substantially. And, once I ran the room calibration the stereo imaging and sound stage really filled in. Also, the center and 362's seemed to blend in significantly more and it is now quite hard to isolate what any of the front channels are doing. Sorry, Deepstang, I know thats a long winded answer to your question. After hearing all that, what do you think? Should I worry?

do it

Good deals on P363. Don't know how long it'll last.

http://www.dealsofamerica.com/Infini...ker/156836.htm

Hi guys,

I'm having a tough time making a decision on which front pair to start with.

A few years ago i had P252s with the C351 center in a large living room with a 52" TV. I loved them! I sold those awhile ago and am now looking to rebuild a new HT in a new place.

The new place, however is smaller. Its about a 13' deep and about 15' wide. The front right has a doorway to a hallway and the left side has a door way to the dining room. The TV is 40" and is about 10' from speaker position to ear.

I think i've ruled out the P362s because i think they are just too big for this small Cambridge apartment and TV. I'm leaning toward P252s again, but I also wonder about simply using P162s. Sadly i think i'll need to go with the C251 center eventually because the C351 is massive and would look as big as my TV!

Budget is a concern so i'm starting with just the front L/R for now. So what do you guys think about the P162s vs P252s? It'd be great to avoid dealing with speaker stands, the P252s move more air.. is that the clear way to go?

Thanks a lot!

If the price difference is not that much, I'd rather get the P252.

Finally upgraded my front sound stage! Wow what a difference!! I had an old set of Infinity Primus speakers I bought in a theater package quite a few years ago. The package was 4 x Primus P140 bookshelfs and PC140 center channel. They really lacked any low end and I had always had the center up +3db just so I could hear voices clearly.

I just installed the replacement speakers last night and re-ran Audyssey. I was very surprised with how much better they sounded. Much clearer voices and much better mid-range and low-end punch. I decided to just keep a set of P140s for my rear speakers, I didn't see any reason to upgrade those.

Upgraded:
Infinity Primus P163BK (Front Left/Right)
Infinity Primus PC251BK (Center)

Rest of my system:
Infinity Primus P140 (Rear Left/Right)
SVSound PB10-NSD Subwoofer
Denon AVR-590

60Hz is a lower frequency? *Cough* 15Hz? Yes.

I trust my ears well. In my environment crossing the mains at 60 works better.

The P36x towers will go down to 40Hz in most rooms w/o an issue. However, I do agree that the sub(s) should handle the load at that point.

80Hz might work better for your room and your mains. 60Hz works better for me.

Cannot argue with your ears. It is preference. Can you safely play at reference for film? And do you have more than one sub?

Hello All,
i posted this image in another thread, i guess this is the correct.
i bought p153 speakers for surround and i think they look super huuuuuge
instead, what do you think?

What matters is what you think. I'm using the 140's for my rears and they are largish but not as bad as the 150's.

I think if i had more space it would be ok, but its just to largish its intimidating
This is another angle

try in walls.. I had the same situation you did and I love them...I painted the grills and you dont even know they are there.

It should make no difference, unless you want to always look at the surrounds during playback and that is not common. Besides, in a theater, do you look at the speakers that are setup on high and down both sides of the theater? If this is an aesthetic concern, then you will have to do what you think is appropriate. The other warning is that because these will be wall mounted, be very careful about their placement because it could easily be a big PIA to relocate them. In other words, I would try some dry runs before actually mounting them.

Aesthetics are one issue. Some people like intimidating. Ever seen the floor to ceiling line columns from the 70s? But, that's not everyone's cup of tea!

The real issue is you aren't going to get any envelopment. Your seating area is against the back wall. I assume the room is tight. You could try inwalls as someone else mentioned--to the sides of the listening area. Even if you had a foot or so behind the couch, you likely won't get a good surround effect with the speakers behind you, unless they are back surround in a 7.1. Even then, you'd need more space.

You are right i dont feel the envelopment, i hear them,but dont feel the envelopment. I will take some pics of the room
Hoping you guys can point out where would be better or if its better to change from wall mounts to speaker stands

Start here: http://www.thx.com/consumer/home-ent...er-set-up/#5.1

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=824554

My surrounds are 12' away from my listening position. Raise them higher and further away from the couch - in the top corners if you can, and toe them in further (pointing more towards the back of the couch). That would be a huge improvement...

tulow, I think your speakers are too low. I would spread them as wide apart as symmetrically possible AND raise them at least a couple of feet above ear level. Keep them pointed towards the listening area.
That would be helpful.

How does this improve the acoustics? I have a similiar setup and need to adjust too.

Unless you try it, you will never know. The surrounds cannot be at the same level as the L & R fronts. There is no hard and fast rule which is why you have to try it out and then, hopefully, experience a more enveloping acoustic environment - actually this is a certainty.

http://www.thx.com/consumer/home-ent...peaker-set-up/

"Surround Left & Right Speakers (SL & SR): Place the SL & SR speakers between 90° to 110° to each side and 2 feet or higher above the listener. The SL & SR speakers recreate the enveloping sound and intense special effects that you experience in the cinema."

Having the speakers near-field is like wearing headphones. You need air and reflections to create space and enveloping sound.

I disagree to the extent some have implied surround height is an absolute, right or wrong answer. At most, it depends on preference, and the future seems to look like ear level placement.

Ear level for surrounds is a problem IF you are localizing sounds to the detriment of the surround illusion. The idea of lifting surrounds high on the walls dates back to original Dolby ProLogic when surrounds were strictly for movies and the only sounds sent to surround channels were delays to give a crude envelopment illusion. Today's soundtracks have discrete surround signals that combine tangible effects like a door closing, flyovers, or whizzing arrows, with studio added reverberation. So, there are sounds you need to hear from a localized source and sounds that if localized will destroy the illusion. If atmospherics and such are done right in the studio, you won't localize them at ear level, unless perhaps your room just doesn't allow enough distance from the surround speakers and the seating area. If you have surrounds up high or even worse a dipole speaker that sends sound to a typical home listening room's poorest reflection points--the front and back walls--you might not hear the flyover pan correctly. Pinpoint effects like a broken window could be off.

Another factor in favor of ear level placement is if you listen to multichannel music. You can probably generalize that for multichannel music, the majority preference is 7 identical loudpseakers all at the same ear level. That is unlikely to be true for movie mixing. Sadly there just isn't a commonly followed or accepted standard.

If you are going to use your system for a variety of music and movie formats, if you are going to upmix stereo sources with PL IIx, etc., then you owe it to yourself to experiment, and I suggest starting at ear level unless you're sitting really close. There really isn't right or wrong answer at this time, and the historic trend arguably suggests starting at ear level.

Thanks for the suggestions and I appreciate the link. My setup allows for the distances you mentioned when I'm seated away from the edges of the couch. In fact, about the only time it would be less than specified is if I'm on the edge and leaning over it. I'm going to keep this in mind when I move though. I'll have considerably more flexibility then in positioning so I'll use that to my advantage.

Thanks again!

I just received the PC351 and a pair of the P363s. I've been holding onto the pioneer VSX-31 I got from costco, but from dekard's comments it sounds like the towers need a beefier amp to get the most out of them. The VSX-31 is rated at 80w + 80W, should this be enough?

I'm thinking of the same speakers. Just got the Pioneer 1021. Wondering the same thing now.

lol I thought you bought them already. I wish there was something decent 400 or less, because the T747 (600) sounds like overkill, but less overkill than the SC-35 costco deal (795 w/ MD tax)

There's deals on the yamaha's @BB and newegg right now 667 and 867/A800 but I have no idea how good those amps are.

I'm not sure of the answers to your questions. I can tell you that the NAD is rated for 60 watts but repeated testing has shown it to deliver 130 watts when using the same techniques other manufacturers use to rate their product. Like most audiophile companies, they purposefully underrate their amps. The contrast is that most amps sold in the mass markets tend to deliver a lot less than advertised. I've seen amps rated at 80 watts push out 30-40, depending on the load. Here's some instrumented testing of a Pioneer VSX-1021 that's rated for 130 watts a channel and yet only pushed out 45-55 watts when tested. Check the image I attached to this post for the picture from Pioneer's website showing their wattage claims. The NAD under the same tests showed 99-114 watts from its 60 watt ratings.

I know absolutely nothing about your Pioneer VSX-31. It is one of their Elite receivers, so it should be on their higher end. It is interesting to note that the Pioneer Elite VSX-31 weighs in at 22 lbs and is rated for 80 x 7 watts. The NAD t747 comes in at 30 lbs and is rated at 60 x 7 watts. When you consider the size and quality of the power supply needed to deliver that much power, its evident someone's specifications aren't telling the whole story. So, perhaps you are getting the watts but they couldn't be as clean as an amp with a beefier backend?

For what it's worth, I came from a Yamaha that is rated at 65 watts x 6. But, when I drove the towers, the 362s, to higher volumes the sound really came apart. It got harsh and gritty and the volume stopped getting much louder. That Yamaha had the spec's but it didn't have the power. The NAD, on the other hand, has lower specs. But, when the volume raises, the sound stays just as effortless and clean as it is at lower volumes. My wife used to complain all the time whenever a movie got louder. In hindsight, the amp ran out of steam and got gritty when the movie got loud. With the NAD, the complaints stoped because it sounds clean and smooth, even at high volumes.

I think if what I'm saying makes any kind of sense, you should order an amp with a really great back end, like the NAD t747. If you try it out and you don't like it, send it back! If what I'm saying doesn't make any sense, open another Bud Lite and don't worry about it.

a somewhat newbish question...but I bought pre-banana'd cables for the P363s and the PC351. What's the easiest way to remove the plastic piece covering the terminal?