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Infinity Primus Owner's Thread - Page 103

post #3061 of 3898
Quote:
Originally Posted by jterp7 View Post

a somewhat newbish question...but I bought pre-banana'd cables for the P363s and the PC351. What's the easiest way to remove the plastic piece covering the terminal?

If they are anything like Polks they just unscrew. I put them back on though after removing the plastic piece that blocks the terminal hole.
post #3062 of 3898
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

If they are anything like Polks they just unscrew. I put them back on though after removing the plastic piece that blocks the terminal hole.

it doesn't unscrew all the way though
post #3063 of 3898
Quote:
Originally Posted by jterp7 View Post

it doesn't unscrew all the way though

i believe you can gently pry the plastic middle portion out with a flathead screwdriver. then you can stick the banana plugs in the middle.
post #3064 of 3898
Quote:
Originally Posted by jterp7 View Post

What's the easiest way to remove the plastic piece covering the terminal?

Slide a blade (like a utility knife or kitchen knife) under the edge of the plastic cap and gently twist to lift.
post #3065 of 3898
Quote:
Originally Posted by csgamer View Post

i believe you can gently pry the plastic middle portion out with a flathead screwdriver. then you can stick the banana plugs in the middle.

lol I feel like I'm scratching the @#$% out of the binding posts trying to do it
post #3066 of 3898
hmm...so I've hooked it up to the VSX-31 running Iron Man right now and it doesn't sound too bad..though at most I've cranked it to -20, could probably still use a sub in certain sequences though. I'd probably have to A/B it to something better to hear the difference.
post #3067 of 3898
my local BB has the denon 1911 for 249..50 bucks less than the vsx-31 and denon's are known to be more powerful than similar pioneers in this price range. Can any of the 1911 owners comment here?
post #3068 of 3898
Quote:
Originally Posted by jterp7 View Post

my local BB has the denon 1911 for 249..50 bucks less than the vsx-31 and denon's are known to be more powerful than similar pioneers in this price range. Can any of the 1911 owners comment here?

With all do respect, you are better off posting in the receiver area...more specifically in the Denon thread.
post #3069 of 3898
Quote:
Originally Posted by jterp7 View Post

my local BB has the denon 1911 for 249..50 bucks less than the vsx-31 and denon's are known to be more powerful than similar pioneers in this price range. Can any of the 1911 owners comment here?

The 1911 is supposed to be a good receiver. Still, considering what the Primus are capable of, I hate to see people using cheap receivers with gutless amps. I'm *not* saying the 1911 is, just the many people in this thread are under-powering the larger Primus.
post #3070 of 3898
well unfortunately for me the 1911 sold over the weekend...in its place I found the 891, which is 100 more, but is essentially this receiver here, minus some of the features (Ci related mostly).

http://www.hometheater.com/content/d...-labs-measures
post #3071 of 3898
I have the 2311 setup with 2x360s, 351 CC and it seems like a good combo. The Primus towers are pretty efficient so they sound good even with mid-range receivers IMHO.
post #3072 of 3898
Agreed. Just because the speakers are large doesn't necessarily mean that they will be harder to push. Looking at the efficiency rating is key. All the Primus speakers are pretty efficient, and any receiver that is rated 90 watts should have no problem in pushing the Primus to reference levels.

http://www.infinitysystems.com/home/...USA&Country=US

The larger PC351 center is actually rated 1db higher than the matching P163 bookshelf.

http://www.infinitysystems.com/home/...USA&Country=US


Btw, has anyone here gone from a Polk Rti series to the Primus??

Also, can anyone comment on the performance of the PC351 center??
post #3073 of 3898
Yo Infinity Primus P163 or P162 owners! Have you ever heard of a P163/2 speaker blowing from being pushed too hard? I like to listen to movies and music loud, and I have heard some comment that they are scared to push their Primus speakers too hard. Comments??
post #3074 of 3898
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepstang View Post

Yo Infinity Primus P163 or P162 owners! Have you ever heard of a P163/2 speaker blowing from being pushed too hard? I like to listen to movies and music loud, and I have heard some comment that they are scared to push their Primus speakers too hard. Comments??

Having owned P162 speakers some time ago, these would hardly be a speaker of choice to play at loud volumes.

If you choose to do so, be sure to have an amplifier that will support the loud volumes. The most common failure (true with any speaker, not specific to P162/3) is driving speakers hard with an underpowered amp. Clipping results, often resulting in blown tweeters.
post #3075 of 3898
Any speaker will blow from being pushed TOO hard, but Infinitys are pretty well made and can take a lot of power before you have to worry about that.

I would be a lot more worried about using a cheap amp or receiver that can't push enough clean power at high volume levels, amplifier clipping can very easily damage your speakers. Remember, too much power is always safer than too little.
post #3076 of 3898
Infinity speakers, like all speakers designed by Harman International out of Northridge, CA undergo 100 hours of full rated power testing in an enclosed cement wall room before they can pass the power test milestone which is one of the final milestones of any Harman speaker design project. If I remember correctly, the amps used in the Harman speaker test chamber are pro models capable of supplying in excess of 500 watts into a 4 ohm load.

But, and this is the big "But", as stevensctt and Remonster correctly assert most lower cost speakers are blown by receiver's/ amps which are pushed too hard into clipping. These are usually your receivers rated at "100 watts per channel!" that retail for $300 - $500. At Harman we speaker engineers referred to those watts as "mouse watts". Clipping shoves what it essentially DC voltage directly into the speaker system. Most times it is the tweeter which will blow first but mid/woofers can also succumb because the woofer's voice coil is also pushed way out of its controlling gap for sustained periods so there is no opportunity for the coil to cool.
post #3077 of 3898
^^^

That's about as succinct as you can get. Don't drive the amp into clipping and distortion because you think that it isn't loud enough or pay the price.
post #3078 of 3898
Glad to see this thread woke up!

So what you guys are trying to say is that you can crank the volume on the P163 without having the SPEAKER to blame for any sort of distortion or limits. I understand that cheap amps and high volume can cause a tweeter or speaker to blow.

I was asking if the P163 driver can handle loud volumes without me getting nervous of it blowing. I can crank my HSU HB-1 without any concern. Was hoping I can have the same confidence with the P163.
post #3079 of 3898
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepstang View Post

Glad to see this thread woke up!

So what you guys are trying to say is that you can crank the volume on the P163 without having the SPEAKER to blame for any sort of distortion or limits. I understand that cheap amps and high volume can cause a tweeter or speaker to blow.

I was asking if the P163 driver can handle loud volumes without me getting nervous of it blowing. I can crank my HSU HB-1 without any concern. Was hoping I can have the same confidence with the P163.

What kind of amp do you have? These speakers while easy to drive for the most part dip down to 4 Ohm at certain frequencies.
post #3080 of 3898
I have a Denon 2112. I appreciate the help. I have not had any trouble pushing my HSU HB-1, AV123 X-LS and the Energy RC-10 to loud volumes. My question was more in regards to if the P163 is reliable when played occasionally at louder volumes. It is a steal for $85 a piece.
post #3081 of 3898
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepstang View Post

I have a Denon 2112. I appreciate the help. I have not had any trouble pushing my HSU HB-1, AV123 X-LS and the Energy RC-10 to loud volumes. My question was more in regards to if the P163 is reliable when played occasionally at louder volumes. It is a steal for $85 a piece.

Sorry, I was thinking of the 363's. I'm sure you shouldn't have too many issues driving the P163. (Even my 362's haven't had any issues from my HK 247--although I plan to get either a Yamaha pro-amp or an Emotiva in the near future to make sure.)
post #3082 of 3898
Thanks. I actually have no question in my mind that my receiver can push the P163. I was asking if the P163 has the balls to be pushed.

Yes, I understand lesser amps and receivers will distort and cause speaker damage at higher volumes. I am NOT referring to that scenario. Thanks again.
post #3083 of 3898
I'm in the process of building my first real home theater system, and have pretty much settled on the Infinity Primus P163, which from what I've read are a great value at $85. After two of those, a receiver (Onkyo HT-RC360 for $250), and a sub (Bic F12 for $183), my budget is down to around $200 for the rest of the system.

I had been thinking of getting the PC-350 center with that $200, and either leaving the system at 3.1 or using my old Logitech Z-5450 for the surround, depending on which sounded better in testing. However, reading back through the last couple of pages of this thread, I see recommendations for just using a third P163 for the center, which I hadn't considered before. Doing that would free up enough to get a couple of P143s for matching surround and come in right at my budget target of $800.

Is that sort of setup still recommended? Has anyone tried it in the real world? How much would I really be giving up going from the 350 to an additional 163, and would the higher-quality surrounds make up for it? This is for an even mix of movies and gaming with only occasional music, so having dialogue be clear is pretty important.

Thanks!
post #3084 of 3898
Our resident Infinity expert, PLHart, will tell you that 3 matching speakers across the front is best because there will be no timbral differences across the front soundstage as sounds move from L to C to R. He designed the Beta line, which are almost solely responsible for the existence of the Primus line. OTOH, the center channel carries close to 80 per cent of the front channel information. So the larger the speaker the louder you can play it. Here's what it boils down to. How loud do you want to run your system, and how large is your room? In my room (14x20) there's no way I could run 3 Primus 163s at the levels I want. Your mileage may vary. But with those caveats going with 3 identical speakers across the front is absolutely the best way to go. Just remember this: power. Lots of power. Always. Never skimp. No cheapo 100wpc @ $3-400. Not if you want accuracy and volume and minimal distortion. Listen and decide for yourself. 40 years ago I listened to my Advents with a 30wpc Sony and was incredibly happy. Little did I know that 100wpc would make a difference.
post #3085 of 3898
Thanks. So the cheaper 163 option is actually better for sound quality and mainly sacrifices volume? I think I can live with that. The room is 10'W x 12'L, with the left side open to the dining room, but we don't tend to crank the volume up to extreme levels -- the current Logitech system gets plenty loud for our tastes, and I'm assuming the new system should blow that away.

I'm not quite sure what you're saying about the power, though. I thought 100 wpc was pretty standard? The receiver I'm looking at lists 100W at 8 ohms and 125 at 6 -- is that not enough? It has a list price of $549, so I thought I was safely stepping out of the budget category into a solid middle tier.
post #3086 of 3898
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boojum42 View Post

Thanks. So the cheaper 163 option is actually better for sound quality and mainly sacrifices volume? I think I can live with that. The room is 10'W x 12'L, with the left side open to the dining room, but we don't tend to crank the volume up to extreme levels -- the current Logitech system gets plenty loud for our tastes, and I'm assuming the new system should blow that away.

I'm not quite sure what you're saying about the power, though. I thought 100 wpc was pretty standard? The receiver I'm looking at lists 100W at 8 ohms and 125 at 6 -- is that not enough? It has a list price of $549, so I thought I was safely stepping out of the budget category into a solid middle tier.

You don't sacrifice volume with a bookshelf. You sacrifice bass without a subwoofer. If you have a decent subwoofer, your low end and mid-bass should be good.

I doubt that you have a true 100W receiver for $549. It's probably 100W stereo but I doubt that a $549 receiver truly does all channels driven at 100wpc.

This is AVS. We have people here who think $6k Classe receivers are mid-range. (They are compared to a $30k Mark Levinson processor.) Truthfully, IMHO, midrange for receivers stretches from about $700-$1500.
post #3087 of 3898
Quote:
Originally Posted by allargon View Post

You don't sacrifice volume with a bookshelf. You sacrifice bass without a subwoofer. If you have a decent subwoofer, your low end and mid-bass should be good.

I would have a subwoofer either way. The choice is whether to use a third bookshelf p163 for the center channel or get the more expensive pc351 dedicated center speaker.

Quote:
Originally Posted by allargon View Post

This is AVS. We have people here who think $6k Classe receivers are mid-range. (They are compared to a $30k Mark Levinson processor.) Truthfully, IMHO, midrange for receivers stretches from about $700-$1500.

Okay, fair enough. $800 is my budget for the entire system, and anything in that midrange would cost as much or more than the whole set of Primus speakers they'd be powering. I guess my target is more accurately described as upper-entry-level -- something that will blow away my $250 HTiB reference point without breaking the bank.
post #3088 of 3898
Quote:
Originally Posted by plhart View Post

Infinity speakers, like all speakers designed by Harman International out of Northridge, CA undergo 100 hours of full rated power testing in an enclosed cement wall room before they can pass the power test milestone which is one of the final milestones of any Harman speaker design project. If I remember correctly, the amps used in the Harman speaker test chamber are pro models capable of supplying in excess of 500 watts into a 4 ohm load.

But, and this is the big "But", as stevensctt and Remonster correctly assert most lower cost speakers are blown by receiver's/ amps which are pushed too hard into clipping. These are usually your receivers rated at "100 watts per channel!" that retail for $300 - $500. At Harman we speaker engineers referred to those watts as "mouse watts". Clipping shoves what it essentially DC voltage directly into the speaker system. Most times it is the tweeter which will blow first but mid/woofers can also succumb because the woofer's voice coil is also pushed way out of its controlling gap for sustained periods so there is no opportunity for the coil to cool.

Wow, I had no idea Harman tested their speakers so thoroughly. I just happened to be browsing through this thread when I posted above but in the short time since I impulse-bought a pair of 163BKs off Amazon, should be here Saturday. I can't wait to hear them.
post #3089 of 3898
@Boojum42: In a 10x12 room you should be fine, your receiver should be fine, and your speakers WILL be outstanding. Forego the added expense of a dedicated center and go with 3 matched speakers across the front. The difference between this setup and HTIB will be so dramatic...words fail me. Enjoy.
post #3090 of 3898
IMOP, if you can use the 16x for the center you actually gain more frequency response.

According to the spec, the PC35x's start rolling off at 80hz. The 16x is closer to 50hz.

If you cross over to a sub at 80 you stand less chance of losing center channel sound with the 163.

The PC35x's lack of lower frequency response if my only real complaint about the primus line. I would prefer the +/-3db to be lower than 80hz...

http://www.infinitysystems.com/home/...USA&Country=US
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