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Infinity Primus Owner's Thread - Page 104

post #3091 of 3900
Thanks again, guys. I think I'm getting down to the last couple of questions before pulling the trigger.

First, I had thought I had plenty of room between the entertainment center and the wall-mounted TV, but upon actually pulling out the tape measure, I see the 163's height of 15" is larger than I'd been imagining, and would protrude a couple inches into the screen. Would wall-mounting it above the TV or laying it on its side be a viable option, or would that sacrifice sound quality? If neither of those is recommended, I should be able to adjust the TV upward on its mount, but we're pretty happy with the current viewing angle, so that would be the second choice.

And speaking of wall mounting, any decent, affordable recommendations for it, since the 163 doesn't have keyhole mounts? The one that came up in searches is the Pinpoint AM40, but at $60 each, that's almost as much as the speakers, and doesn't seem worth it. If no ready-made solution is available, I can probably just DIY bases out of $10 worth of shelving materials and velcro from Home Depot. The 143 surrounds say that they come with built in wall mounts, so it shouldn't be an issue for them.

I've also read conflicting information in speaker setup guides about whether the speakers should be positioned level to the floor or tilted down and aimed toward the listening position. What would you guys recommend?
post #3092 of 3900
Quote:
Originally Posted by jw00dy View Post

IMOP, if you can use the 16x for the center you actually gain more frequency response.

According to the spec, the PC35x's start rolling off at 80hz. The 16x is closer to 50hz.

If you cross over to a sub at 80 you stand less chance of losing center channel sound with the 163.

The PC35x's lack of lower frequency response if my only real complaint about the primus line. I would prefer the +/-3db to be lower than 80hz...

http://www.infinitysystems.com/home/...USA&Country=US

I own a pair of P162's and there is no way they go down to 50 Hz. I doubt very much that there is a significant difference in response between the P and the PC.

With any Primus system, I would crossover to a subwoofer at 80 - 100 Hz.
post #3093 of 3900
Quote:
Originally Posted by palmfish View Post

I own a pair of P162's and there is no way they go down to 50 Hz. I doubt very much that there is a significant difference in response between the P and the PC.

With any Primus system, I would crossover to a subwoofer at 80 - 100 Hz.

So do I, and I agree with you on the 162's not hitting 50hz -- but they at least clear 80hz before rolling off -- the PC might hit 80hz... might being the key word.
post #3094 of 3900
Quote:
Originally Posted by palmfish View Post


I own a pair of P162's and there is no way they go down to 50 Hz. I doubt very much that there is a significant difference in response between the P and the PC.

With any Primus system, I would crossover to a subwoofer at 80 - 100 Hz.

I measured in room response on my p162's to 50 Hz 3db down. I will look for the graph and post it. I also did a little "Mod" to these speakers with peel and seal and some roxul mineral wool in lieu of the cheap stuff they had in them. Helped to smooth the response and also get a little better lower end response.
post #3095 of 3900
Do other P163 owners feel like the speaker is a little thin on the bottom end? I only got mine a few days ago so they aren't fully burned in yet but I'm wondering if my 50wpc Dayton dta-100a isn't powerful enough or maybe I'm just used to the exaggerated low end of the Audioengine A5s I had previously? I was hoping the larger 6.5" woofer would dig down deeper than those A5s but if anything the P163s seem to roll off earlier than my A5s which is disappointing.

Other than that, I am extremely impressed with the 163, especially considering I only paid around $80 each (Amazon) they work pretty well for nearfield, desktop use.
post #3096 of 3900
Hi All -

I have been recommended 1 and I am also looking at option 2 & 3:

Budget: $1200

1. HSU VTF-1 $400
4x Infinity P163: $340
1x Infinity PC251: $150
Yamaha A800: $400

2. Energy 5.1 Take Classic Home Theater System - $399

3. 4x Polk M10: $260
Polk PSW10 Subwoofer: $99
Polk Audio Monitor CS1: $100


I am new to this group. I currently have the following:


1. Sony KDL46W4150 [46'' LCD TV with 120 Hz Motionflow 1080p]
2. Sony DAV-HDX576WF [Sony Home Theatre System]
3. PS3
4. Wii
5. Time Warner Scientific Atlantica Cable Box &
6. Apple TV
7. iPod Classic


I am trying to replace the Home Theatre System.

My requirements are the following:

1. 5.1 Channel; with an option to expand to 7.1 at a later date
2. Good output for classical/blu ray audio
3. Wireless if possible
4. Not the big size speakers, looking for small footprint in the house [as I live in an apartment]
5. Living Room size - 13'x22'
5. I watch a lot of Blu Ray's and listen to a ton of classical, world music.



Thank you in advance for your advice!
Chintu
post #3097 of 3900
Quote:
Originally Posted by chintu30 View Post

Hi All -

I have been recommended 1 and I am also looking at option 2 & 3:

Budget: $1200

1. HSU VTF-1 $400
4x Infinity P163: $340
1x Infinity PC251: $150
Yamaha A800: $400
Thank you in advance for your advice!
Chintu

Try to swing the 3 series Center Channel. World of difference. Especially if you listen to classical. You will not be disappointed.
post #3098 of 3900
Thank you for your help! Did you mean the Infinity PC351?

What do you think of the other channels? Is a HSU Sub vastly better than the Infinity Primus Subs themselves?

Also how does this setup compare to say a Polk or the Energy Take Classics?

My room size is - 13'x22'

Sorry for the many questions
post #3099 of 3900
Quote:
Originally Posted by chintu30 View Post

Thank you for your help! Did you mean the Infinity PC351?

What do you think of the other channels? Is a HSU Sub vastly better than the Infinity Primus Subs themselves?

Also how does this setup compare to say a Polk or the Energy Take Classics?

My room size is - 13'x22'

Sorry for the many questions

yeah the pc351 is the big brother. It's been working great for me

hsu makes good subs, but I've been thinking about the X-ref 10 from emotiva. Looks like the deal's over though.
post #3100 of 3900
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remonster View Post

Do other P163 owners feel like the speaker is a little thin on the bottom end? I only got mine a few days ago so they aren't fully burned in yet but I'm wondering if my 50wpc Dayton dta-100a isn't powerful enough or maybe I'm just used to the exaggerated low end of the Audioengine A5s I had previously? I was hoping the larger 6.5" woofer would dig down deeper than those A5s but if anything the P163s seem to roll off earlier than my A5s which is disappointing.

Other than that, I am extremely impressed with the 163, especially considering I only paid around $80 each (Amazon) they work pretty well for nearfield, desktop use.

Caveat: I've never heard the A5s, but I own the P163s, and I used the P150s as a desktop setup before (now I use JBL Duet III). Anyway,

The published frequency reponse of the two models is quite similar:
50Hz-22kHz +/-1.5dB for the A5
49Hz - 20kHz +/- 3dB for the P163.

Still, I'm not surprised with your subjective impression. The A5s are just a better choice for your application. They are designed for desktop, nearfield use and benefit from tailored, internal amplifiers. No doubt their equalization has been optimized for thier targeted desktop application. The P163s, on the other hand, are designed to be listened to in the far field, when mounted on stands (bookshelf is just a tag). And, as a passive design, they don't benefit from EQ for a challenging application.
Also, both speakers are interacting uniquely with your desk, computer monitor and room to produce what you hear, particularly in the bass frequencies. I found my P153s needed to be lifted fairly high off the desk. My best results were with the tweeters at ear level and toe'd in. But, I get a more satisfying experience from the powered JBL Duet IIIs, and they are quite compact. I still would love a subwoofer, but not any more so than I did when used the P153s.

To give you an idea of how incomplete the minimal frequency response measurements listed above are, I compared the P163s with a pair of Infinity Beta 20s, which according to Infinity go to 52hz, =/-6dB! So, the P163s should have slightly deeper and flatter bass response. But, in my room they didn't, at least to my ears. I never measured them. To me, the P163s sounded exactly as you described a little thinner.

The P163s are great speakers. I've since upgraded at home, but I've held on to the P163s; just don't want to let them go yet. They offer very good measured performance, especially for the price. But, putting them on a desktop previously occupied by the A5s is asking them to excel at something they just were not designed for.

Another hypotheisis: the A5s are designed for desktop nearfield use. The tonal balance is probably intentionally skewed so the highs don't fry your ears. That is, the are voiced to be light on the treble, which sounds bass heavy. The P163s are fairly smooth on and off axis. Just a guess.
post #3101 of 3900
Quote:
Originally Posted by chintu30 View Post

What do you think of the other channels? Is a HSU Sub vastly better than the Infinity Primus Subs themselves?

"vastly"? can't say that. The Primus subs are competent, but nothing to write home about. But, now that Infinity is basically factory direct (check out harmanaudio's ebay store for really cheap prices), Hsu's edge is less compelling. You should look at the published measurements and get the best your budget and room allows. I like the Infinity subs that have RABOS eq, but that's not available in the Primus subs. Also shop SVS. The sub forum can point you to other internet direct subs that offer great performance for the price.
post #3102 of 3900
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boojum42 View Post

Would wall-mounting it above the TV or laying it on its side be a viable option, or would that sacrifice sound quality? If neither of those is recommended, I should be able to adjust the TV upward on its mount, but we're pretty happy with the current viewing angle, so that would be the second choice.
I've also read conflicting information in speaker setup guides about whether the speakers should be positioned level to the floor or tilted down and aimed toward the listening position. What would you guys recommend?

The 163s will not give you good performance mounted on a wall or laying on the sides. Even though called "bookshelf" speakers, they are designed to be on stands, pulled away from walls, with the tweeter at ear level. All of your fronts should as close to the same ear level plane as possible. Surrounds are a matter of reasonable debate, but if you have them above ear level, they should not angle down.

For your application, I would go with wall mounted speakers or even quality in walls. If you like Infinity, the TSS series fits the bill.
post #3103 of 3900
Hi all -
I just cabbaged on to a pair of P362's nib.. for silly cheap. they sound so good out-of-the-box, I got to poking around on the www to see what I could find out about these. And thus I stumbled onto to this forum and thread.

More specifically I was looking to see if anybody has messed around with modifying/tweaking them. I think they are good enough to warrant some effort along these lines...

I have read the posts about cabinet resonance reduction/dampening, outrigger feet w/spikes, etc. But my real curiousity is with their crossover.
I "observe" via looking thru the port and on the Infinity parts website for these, that they have perhaps less than optimal parts in the crossovers - they appear to have all electrolytic caps. Anybody out here in the virtual world messed around with upgrading the caps or the entire crossover in the Primus'?
post #3104 of 3900
Quote:
Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post

Hi all -
I just cabbaged on to a pair of P362's nib.. for silly cheap. they sound so good out-of-the-box, I got to poking around on the www to see what I could find out about these. And thus I stumbled onto to this forum and thread.

More specifically I was looking to see if anybody has messed around with modifying/tweaking them. I think they are good enough to warrant some effort along these lines...

I have read the posts about cabinet resonance reduction/dampening, outrigger feet w/spikes, etc. But my real curiousity is with their crossover.
I "observe" via looking thru the port and on the Infinity parts website for these, that they have perhaps less than optimal parts in the crossovers - they appear to have all electrolytic caps. Anybody out here in the virtual world messed around with upgrading the caps or the entire crossover in the Primus'?

It's a $150 speaker. Of course it has cheap crossovers!

The question is whether or not it's worth it to upgrade the components or just buy better speakers.

If you're handy and like to tinker though, I agree the drivers are good in these speakers and might be worth the effort.

Enjoy!
post #3105 of 3900
Quote:
Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post

Anybody out here in the virtual world messed around with upgrading the caps or the entire crossover in the Primus'?

I have messed around with the speaker enclosure but understood the crossover to be a good unit. My understanding is that by messing with that crossover you can have the speaker sound the same or worse but not better.
post #3106 of 3900
Quote:
Originally Posted by palmfish View Post

It's a $150 speaker. Of course it has cheap crossovers!

The question is whether or not it's worth it to upgrade the components or just buy better speakers.

If you're handy and like to tinker though, I agree the drivers are good in these speakers and might be worth the effort.

Enjoy!

well... I have built a few speakers.. and I already have better speakers.. several pair - but a guy can never have too many pairs of speakers - since the perfect speaker does not exist!
However, having said that, it is always fun to see how far you can take a inexpensive model. Apparently the MMD driver's in these are exceptional units. I plan to tweak the cabinet bracing, dampening/resonance control, add some outrigger feet(so they don't tip over so easy) and do straight parts upgrades to the series capacitors in the tweet and mid circuits - good winter project and we'll just see what happens.
post #3107 of 3900
I'm pretty sure that there's a post or two somewhere in this thread that deals with upgrading the Primus, esp. the bracing, but not the XO. I even remember posting pictures here from another site. Primus has been and seems to remain the speaker value of the decade. Pity that Harman chooses to let their most famous audiophile brand wither away. Revel has apparently become the new Infinity, and JBL is still, uh, JBL?
post #3108 of 3900
The p363 is back on sale at Fry's for $199/pair this week, which from what I gather hasn't happened in quite a while. The SKU doesn't appear in their online system, but I called my local store and they said they have 18 pairs in stock.
post #3109 of 3900
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boojum42 View Post

The p363 is back on sale at Fry's for $199/pair this week, which from what I gather hasn't happened in quite a while. The SKU doesn't appear in their online system, but I called my local store and they said they have 18 pairs in stock.

Great price if you live near a Fry's. Deal seems to available only in the stores and not on-line
post #3110 of 3900
$200 for 2 p363's is a great deal.

I looked online as well and couldn't find anything but a 362 for $149. To bad a fry's was near me to check it out.
post #3111 of 3900
I would love to get them at that price. I called and it's for in store only. Wish someone could pick up for me and ship.
post #3112 of 3900
Quote:
Originally Posted by cx3gma View Post

I would love to get them at that price. I called and it's for in store only. Wish someone could pick up for me and ship.

I was going to try to pick up a second pair for you, but by the time I got there on my lunch break, they had already sold through 17 pairs that morning and I got the very last one. Looks to be a popular deal .

Now to audition head to head with a couple other speakers on my short list (Pioneer FS-51 and DefTech PM800... unfortunately the Jamo S606 isn't available anywhere locally).
post #3113 of 3900
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boojum42 View Post


I was going to try to pick up a second pair for you, but by the time I got there on my lunch break, they had already sold through 17 pairs that morning and I got the very last one. Looks to be a popular deal .

Now to audition head to head with a couple other speakers on my short list (Pioneer FS-51 and DefTech PM800... unfortunately the Jamo S606 isn't available anywhere locally).

Wow thanks for trying. Enjoy your pair. Sweet deal like that I'm not surprised was gone quick. Looking forward for your feedback. Tx
post #3114 of 3900
Well... that was a quick and decisive audition. The 363s were just head and shoulders above my other candidates in clarity, richness, and overall commanding presence. That shouldn't be too much of a surprise given that their list price is 3-4x higher, but still I was shocked by just how much of a gap there was, particularly since it was over speakers that I really liked and had already chosen over several other possibilities. It was even enough to vault the WAF hurdle (minute 1: "Get those eighties-looking monstrosities out of my living room" ... minute 10: "Holy crap, we never have to go to the theater again.")

So looks I'm pretty much set on going the Primus route for my first system.

Now time to figure out the surrounds. Does the 153 represent enough of an upgrade to justify its extra size and price, or is the 143 good enough? And in either case, what would be a good price to watch for? I think I remember seeing them around $65 and $75 at multiple sites a couple months ago, but looking again now they've shot up quite a bit. I don't mind waiting a bit to get the best deal -- what's the lowest they typically drop to?

Similarly, I gather that the PC251 would be too weak to pair with the towers, and if I get a center it would have to be the 351. Things sound great running in 2.0 with a phantom center for the time being, so this is even less of a rush than the surrounds. The 351 is close to full price everywhere, but I'd like to have a sense of how low it can be expected to drop when on sale.

Thanks for any input!
post #3115 of 3900
Newegg has good prices on the 153 speakers.
post #3116 of 3900
Quote:
Originally Posted by morepower_16 View Post

Newegg has good prices on the 153 speakers.

Thanks for the tip! That deal seems to be so new that it doesn't even show up in the list on Google Shopping yet. Anyone know of other online retailers that will price-match with Newegg though? I'm hesitant to order from them after a previous bad experience, especially because unlike most places they have a no-refund policy and are in CA so have to charge sales tax.
post #3117 of 3900
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boojum42 View Post

Thanks for the tip! That deal seems to be so new that it doesn't even show up in the list on Google Shopping yet. Anyone know of other online retailers that will price-match with Newegg though? I'm hesitant to order from them after a previous bad experience, especially because unlike most places they have a no-refund policy and are in CA so have to charge sales tax.

Crutchfield has the P152 for a comparable price.

Coupon code 3A825 will save you an additional $20.
post #3118 of 3900
Putting my 360's ans p212 up on craig's list in NYC and struggling with what's fair price.

Thinking but might negotiate

360--$150-199 a pair--like new
p212-$150-175------- same

Comments?

Thanks

--Mike
post #3119 of 3900
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boojum42 View Post

Does the 153 represent enough of an upgrade to justify its extra size and price, or is the 143 good enough?

Problem with the 143 is that they only go down to 100Hz, forcing you to cross over to your subwoofer at a high enough frequency that it might become localizable. By comparison, the 153 goes down to around 60Hz, giving you some flexibility (even below 80Hz) when crossing over to your sub.
post #3120 of 3900
Quote:
Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post

I plan to tweak the cabinet bracing, dampening/resonance control, add some outrigger feet(so they don't tip over so easy) and do straight parts upgrades to the series capacitors in the tweet and mid circuits - good winter project and we'll just see what happens.

Very interested in the results. Please share if possible.
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