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Lumagen RadianceXD - featuring Gennum VXP (!!) - Page 2

post #31 of 3414
Prettier than a plain black box, at least. What are they made out of? ABS plastic?
post #32 of 3414
I must say, as nice as this unit sounds, since I do not want to use my scaler to switch audio - just video - I am loath to spend extra $$ for something I do not need. The Lumagen HDQ has proven perfect for me - will see, I suppose, whether the better video deinterlacing on the Radience vs HDQ (I imagine the film deinterlacing is identical) make the extra cost worthwhile.

Also, since I have no more room in my rack, appearance for me is irrelevent - my HDQ ended up 'hidden' above my drop ceiling.

Simon
post #33 of 3414
fantastic design!!!
post #34 of 3414
Wow, what a surprise! This doesn't bode well for SO. All the hype and then boom Gennum and DVDO come along and eat their lunch lol.

It'll be interesting to see how practical chip replacement really is. It sounds good in practice, but the reality can be something else. I assume the chip replacement will really be a board replacement and then the cost will likely be higher than the DVDO upgrade program...
post #35 of 3414
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca1ore View Post

I must say, as nice as this unit sounds, since I do not want to use my scaler to switch audio - just video - I am loath to spend extra $$ for something I do not need. The Lumagen HDQ has proven perfect for me - will see, I suppose, whether the better video deinterlacing on the Radience vs HDQ (I imagine the film deinterlacing is identical) make the extra cost worthwhile.

Also, since I have no more room in my rack, appearance for me is irrelevent - my HDQ ended up 'hidden' above my drop ceiling.

Simon

Hi Simon,

Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on how you look at it), audio switching is becoming a necessity in VP's because of the long audio delay the VP adds and also the fact that HDMI is a combo audio and video interface. So I look at it as a positive.
post #36 of 3414
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca1ore View Post

I must say, as nice as this unit sounds, since I do not want to use my scaler to switch audio - just video - I am loath to spend extra $$ for something I do not need. The Lumagen HDQ has proven perfect for me - will see, I suppose, whether the better video deinterlacing on the Radience vs HDQ (I imagine the film deinterlacing is identical) make the extra cost worthwhile.

Also, since I have no more room in my rack, appearance for me is irrelevent - my HDQ ended up 'hidden' above my drop ceiling.

Simon


Mark Petersen beat to the punch above regarding switching audio with VP's. All I'll add is if you have any desire to use one of the new generation of video processors you'll have no choice but to use the audio switching, that is unless you like your audio and video out of synch, way out of synch. Audio equipment doesn't have a large enough delay to accomodate the delay these processors introduce.
post #37 of 3414
Quote:


All I'll add is if you have any desire to use one of the new generation of video processors you'll have no choice but to use the audio switching, that is unless you like your audio and video out of synch, way out of synch. Audio equipment doesn't have a large enough delay to accomodate the delay these processors introduce.

I have the Vantage HD Realta-based processor. I notice no problem with lip synch delay, except on occassion with HD DVD. Pausing the movie and then resuming resolves the issue. With regular DVD or cable, no problems at all.
post #38 of 3414
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Petersen View Post

I assume the chip replacement will really be a board replacement

A small daughter card needs to be replaced. Cost? No idea. But it's definitely not a full mainboard swap. Just a little daughter card.
post #39 of 3414
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

I have the Vantage HD Realta-based processor. I notice no problem with lip synch delay, except on occassion with HD DVD. Pausing the movie and then resuming resolves the issue. With regular DVD or cable, no problems at all.

Are you running the audio through the Vantage? If so, you'll not notice much of a lip sync problem because the Realta dynamically varies the time delay based on the the video delay. From what I understand the Realta video delay can be as much as 4 fields but can be less than that.
post #40 of 3414
"If so, you'll not notice much of a lip sync problem because the Realta dynamically varies the time delay based on the the video delay."

It would be nice if the video processors would keep the video delay constant. Basically just buffer the video if the current processing is quicker then the max. latency through the unit running different video processing. That would make it easier for those delaying the audio in other procesors to keep things always in sync since the audio delay would not need to be adjusted based on what the video processor is doing.

Shawn
post #41 of 3414
Quote:


It would be nice if the video processors would keep the video delay constant. Basically just buffer the video if the current processing is quicker then the max. latency through the unit running different video processing. That would make it easier for those delaying the audio in other procesors to keep things always in sync since the audio delay would not need to be adjusted based on what the video processor is doing.

That's true although for some applications such as games it's advantageous to minimize the latency altogether so some VP's like the new DVDO VP50 allow for various latencies.
post #42 of 3414
Quote:


Are you running the audio through the Vantage?

No.
post #43 of 3414
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

No.

Interesting. The delay in the Realta is about 100ms so it should be noticeable and it is with my Algolith Dragonfly. Perhaps you're compensating with delay in the audio prepro or your deinterlacing and NR settings are such that the delay isn't maxed out...
post #44 of 3414
Quote:
Originally Posted by kraigk View Post

Mark Petersen beat to the punch above regarding switching audio with VP's. All I'll add is if you have any desire to use one of the new generation of video processors you'll have no choice but to use the audio switching, that is unless you like your audio and video out of synch, way out of synch. Audio equipment doesn't have a large enough delay to accomodate the delay these processors introduce.

Mark:

Yes, that is a good point. My Meridian gear can take care of the lip-synch adjustment, however, Meridian do not yet have an HDMI input on the 861 to accept the HDMI-transmitted audio. Since they are about the cleverest bunch out there, I suspect they will come up with something that allows me to keep audio and video separate - I hope!

Simon
post #45 of 3414
Quote:


this Gennum vs. HQV vs. DVDO seems a lot like the BD vs. HD DVD camps.

Nope HQV vs. ABT vs. Gennum is healthy and good for consumers. These can evolve. HD DVD vs. BD is mad and bad for consumers. They are fixed specs with split studio support.
post #46 of 3414
ca1ore - From my reading those with Meridian, Lexicon and lots of other high end gear haven't been too successful with the delay issue. There is simply too much delay between audio and video after the Realta and Gennum based processors are done with the video. This is the very reason why we are seeing all of these vendors do audio switching. Another issue as I recall is having different audio inputs to your pre-amp and needing different delay settings. Different sources (cable, sat dvd, hd-dvd, etc.) introduce different delays. Some equipment allows for different delays per input and others don't.

The Lumagen outputs the audio via the HDMI or via optical or other connector. I believe the other competing processors do as well.
post #47 of 3414
Gennum's VXP processing is surely moving forward at a more rapid pace than Realta's HQV processing so far.

The top end Marantz ($20,000 11S1), the top end projectiondesign ($28,000 Action! Model Three 1080), the top end Barco ($95,000 FLM-HD18)[not sure on this one though] are all bundled with Gennum's processing algorithms.

They have PixelMagic and now Lumagen has joined them as well. I think Gennum has gotten on their work more quietly with substance while HQV has been more tilted towards the hype so far.


On a personal note, I think that the Crystalio II is still the best looking VP out there. The Lumagen is a plain box and is not impressive looking. As far as what is in the box and how it performs, well time will tell. This Radiance series VP is already coming out a quarter late even if it is the Gennum version and we will see if the upgrades are offered briskly.

A Crystalio III in the future could rule all.
post #48 of 3414
sspears,

Good point, I was referring to the emotions that seem to be involved...
post #49 of 3414
Umberto Eco, the Italian semiologist, once famously compared Macs and PCs to the two main branches of the Christian faith: Catholics and Protestants.

The Mac is Catholic, he wrote in his back-page column of the Italian news weekly, Espresso, in September 1994. It is "cheerful, friendly, conciliatory, it tells the faithful how they must proceed step by step to reach -- if not the Kingdom of Heaven -- the moment in which their document is printed."

The Windows PC, on the other hand, is Protestant. It demands "difficult personal decisions, imposes a subtle hermeneutics upon the user, and takes for granted the idea that not all can reach salvation. To make the system work you need to interpret the program yourself: A long way from the baroque community of revelers, the user is closed within the loneliness of his own inner torment."

He was joking of course, but the point is that people do buy into technologies in an almost religious way -- and the trinity of VRS vs VXP vs HQV will keep us discussing the "number of angels on a pinhead" for a long time coming.

StooMonster
post #50 of 3414
Quote:
Originally Posted by kraigk View Post

ca1ore - From my reading those with Meridian, Lexicon and lots of other high end gear haven't been too successful with the delay issue. There is simply too much delay between audio and video after the Realta and Gennum based processors are done with the video. This is the very reason why we are seeing all of these vendors do audio switching. Another issue as I recall is having different audio inputs to your pre-amp and needing different delay settings. Different sources (cable, sat dvd, hd-dvd, etc.) introduce different delays. Some equipment allows for different delays per input and others don't.

The Lumagen outputs the audio via the HDMI or via optical or other connector. I believe the other competing processors do as well.

My Meridian does a pretty good job of lip-synch delay, however, I do not have a Realta/Gannum based scaler. Time will tell on this I suppose.

Simon
post #51 of 3414
I'm not interested in running audio through a VP, all I need is for the VP to send the audio delay out the RS232 port every times it changes so my Prepro can be adjusted accordingly. Can the new Lumagen do this?
post #52 of 3414
Stoo,

coffee vs. tea perhaps?
post #53 of 3414
So the Radience will be available in the first quarter of 2007? Does anyone have any guesses as to which month it will actually come out?
post #54 of 3414
I think it will be in beta perhaps in December and it will stay in beta for several months. The pictures with LCD displays will be later models, not the XG. While Lumagen and Gennum won't say, the XG will clearly be using the coming new Gennum chip, not the present one. I really like the concept of daughter boarding the chip. This will make it possible to use later Gennum chips as well as chips by other manufacturers such as ABT and Silicon Optics. The Lumagen press release at Cedia specifically mentions Silicon Optics. Why did Lumagen switch? The Gennum chip is cheaper, has a much easier to use interface, and offers the big three in NR, Mosquito, Block, and 3D al for SD and HD.
post #55 of 3414
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

I really like the concept of daughter boarding the chip. This will make it possible to use later Gennum chips as well as chips by other manufacturers such as ABT and Silicon Optics.

Oh, I thought the daughter board would only be capable of holding Gennum chips. I thought there would be other Radiance models for the Realta (if Lumagen will ever be using Realta after all). But what you're saying does make a lot of sense - and it makes the daughter board idea even *more* attractive than it was before!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

The Gennum chip is cheaper, has a much easier to use interface, and offers the big three in NR, Mosquito, Block, and 3D al for SD and HD.

Not to forget: It's cooler and thus doesn't need a fan!!
post #56 of 3414
One daughter board could be for the current pin config of the Gennums another could be for the Realta, and another for later Gennums. One could have as many different daughter boards as needed. Clearly,Lumagen is designing for the long term and the possibility of using different chips in the future without the customer needing to replace the main board.
post #57 of 3414
Remember too the Gennum chip does not have the same ability to be upgraded as a gated chip. That is why the Radiance has so many other gated chips in it. Remember too that Lumagen has the tendency to use most of its own algs. Clearly Lumagen's scaling is the best re the competition. So I suspect Lumagen will only use the SD and HD deinterlacing algs in someone else's chip plus a few other features. It might use someone's elses NR but then again it could develop and use it's own. From the get go it probably will use whatever it doesn't have such as NR with the future perhaps bringing better with only a down load to those gated chips. If some future chip has better deinterlacing algs and/or better NR etc,, change out the daughter board to one holding the new chip and viola!

God. I sound like a Lumagen shill. Fear not, I am getting a VP50 and will get the VP60 when it comes out too. So much good stuff out there now and coming. I hope the DVDO folks come out with some NR that can be added for free or cheaply. One VP is just not enough. We live with multiple displays an each deserves a great VP. Bring em on.
post #58 of 3414
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

The Gennum chip is cheaper, has a much easier to use interface, and offers the big three in NR, Mosquito, Block, and 3D al for SD and HD.

Just to be sure, u mean NR/Mosq/BR/etc for BOTH SD and HD material ?
post #59 of 3414
Still the Radience XG sounds like one heck of a VP!
post #60 of 3414
The new Gennum chip offers Mosquito, Block, and 3D noise reduction for both SD and HD. This is from the Gennum literature handed out at the Cedia Expo.
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