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Tosh G2 HD-A2 and HD-XA2 information and discussion - Page 9

post #241 of 4928
Quote:
Originally Posted by rover2002 View Post

Maybe they will announce the new 3gen Tosh today 'R2 D2'

You dawg! You beat me to it!
post #242 of 4928
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo1965 View Post

Trevor,

Lets face it, if your HD-A1 takes half the time to boot and half the time to load a disk, you'll take it without batting an eyelid. In that sense, the A2 is an upgrade of the HD-A1, which now looks like a bad purchase, especially in view of I got the 2nd one less than 2 months ago from Robert at his full price (ok, 2 free movies, free shipping).

Since we all have a good idea of what happens to street pricing of true mass prodution CE devices, the price of the A2 is likely to be quite reasonable for a 2nd or 3rd player. The HD-A2 is an upgrade over the HD-A1 because it is more functional and usable unit and should have some fo the rougher edges smoothed.

XA2 on the other hand, is hard to tell. It has a compelling 1080P feature (if done to match the content), but the MAP is clearly not entry level.

I might still just get the XA2 just to see what it's like.

I don't agree with you on this. Unless you have an HDMI capable receiver or audio processor, the A2 is a significant downgrade compared to the A1. The 3 titles I watched using TrueHD were just amazing. You will not get this with the A2. I have the impression people will run to get an A1 while it is available. The slow boot is nothing compare to loosing TrueHD and who knows DTS-MA down the road.
post #243 of 4928
Here's an article from iTWire about the new Toshibas, I don't know if it adds much information, but here it is anyway :

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6372424.html

Quote:


Toshiba Shows Next-Gen HD DVD Players


By Greg Tarr -- TWICE, 9/15/2006 6:10:00 AM
Denver Nearly six months into the launch of HD DVD, Toshiba introduced a pair of next-generation players, including a model that will support 1,080p high-definition video output.

The new models include the new entry HD-A2, shipping in October at a $499 suggested retail, and the new step-up HD-XA2, shipping in December at a $999 suggested retail. Both will offer performance and functionality improvements over the initial HD-A1 and HD-XA2 versions that are now in stores, including improved remote controls.


The flagship HD-XA2 will incorporate the new 1.3 version of the HDMI spec, said Jodi Sally, Toshiba A/V products group marketing VP, and will output high-definition in all major formats including 1,920 by 1,080p. Toshiba will use the capability to support the company's growing assortment of native 1,080p video displays, and to answer competitors planning to launch Blu-ray Disc players with full 1,080p output later in the fall.
The XA2 will also add 12-bit video DACs with 4x over-sampling at 297MHz, bi-directional RS-232, adjustable picture setting function and a more compact brushed aluminum housing than the first generation.

Both players will also include out-of-the-box support for the Dolby TruHD 5.1 audio format a feature that was also recently added to the first-generation players through a firmware update.

The entry HD-A2 model features a slimmer cabinet design, and will output HD content in either the 720p or 1,080i picture formats.

Toshiba also brought to CEDIA its HD DVD Mobile Experience 18-wheel truck, offering demonstrations of HD DVD players and various Toshiba high-definition video displays. In includes various Mark Levinson audio components and Microsoft HD DVD products.

The truck will be taken on a tour of more than 10 major cities across the nation between now and the end of January.
post #244 of 4928
hi Robert would u be able to find out if the new XA2 accepts 220v/50hz ? i.e. a dual voltage design ? I know this is a US model but since it looks so much like the XE1 it makes a lot of sense for Tosh make a dual voltage model ...

Thanks.
post #245 of 4928
Thread Starter 
No we are authorized on-line approved for JVC and Mits as well, but I have not yet put them on my site. In our store we sell Sony, Pioneer and Samsung, but we are not web approved on for these brands. Our relationship with Toshiba is our closest and highest volume.

I just re-designed my site design and have not completed all of the accessories and HDTVs. So it's a work in progress.

-Robert

Quote:
Originally Posted by nic17 View Post

I just checked out your website. Do you only sell Toshiba electronics?
post #246 of 4928
I hope to see some Mitsu stuff up there by the end of the year Robert since I'm looking to move up to one of their bigger sets.
post #247 of 4928
Robert, could you PM me or email me some information on the upcoming Toshiba 1080p Pro panels you mentioned?

Thanks...
post #248 of 4928
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctakim View Post

That is what I want to know, is the 1080/24 fully kept in that form from the disc master to the HDTV output? No internal deinterlacing? If so, I wonder what that might do to picture quality. Better HD-DVD than what we have yet seen?? Scary thought!

Given all the picture processing in the XA2 is performed in the digital domain, even if they regenerated the 24p, there's no reason it should make any difference whatsoever to the final picture -- no reason any information would be lost or misapplied (unless Toshiba managed to really screw up their design).

I would expect the only real difference to be when changing from a 60fps output to a 24fps ouput, presuming you've a display that supports 24fps input (unusual at present). That would eliminate the 3:2 pulldown processing used to convert from 24fps to 60fps. That should definitely impact the picture.

-- Trevor
post #249 of 4928
"It means that they are doing the same thing the Sammy does and de-interlacing the 1080i internally for 1080p output."

"In other words, still not reading the native 1080p from the disc and transmitting it losslessly to the display as 1080p."



Is this true? Does it output the signal at 24/60 or what?
post #250 of 4928
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo1965 View Post

Trevor,

Lets face it, if your HD-A1 takes half the time to boot and half the time to load a disk, you'll take it without batting an eyelid. In that sense, the A2 is an upgrade of the HD-A1, which now looks like a bad purchase, especially in view of I got the 2nd one less than 2 months ago from Robert at his full price (ok, 2 free movies, free shipping).

Since we all have a good idea of what happens to street pricing of true mass prodution CE devices, the price of the A2 is likely to be quite reasonable for a 2nd or 3rd player. The HD-A2 is an upgrade over the HD-A1 because it is more functional and usable unit and should have some fo the rougher edges smoothed.

XA2 on the other hand, is hard to tell. It has a compelling 1080P feature (if done to match the content), but the MAP is clearly not entry level.

I might still just get the XA2 just to see what it's like.

No question that individual features could compell an individual to move from the A1 to the A2, but I'm talking about the positioning of the product. If you compare the feature set in aggregate, I would say it's pretty much a draw (everyone will have their own take on this depending on what they value). You gain some and you lose some. That's hardly a good description for an upgrade, more what I would call a repositioning.

The XA2 has a clear feature set advantage over all three of the other models, that makes it clearly an upgrade, and the price clearly demonstrates the manufacturer views it that way as well.

-- Trevor
post #251 of 4928
I'm still unclear on something pertaining to the comparison between A1 and A2....
If A2 is 1.2a HDMI, then what was A1? Is it 1.1 or 1.2? What would be the differences if any in PQ?
post #252 of 4928
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tolstoi View Post

I don't agree with you on this. Unless you have an HDMI capable receiver or audio processor, the A2 is a significant downgrade compared to the A1. The 3 titles I watched using TrueHD were just amazing. You will not get this with the A2. I have the impression people will run to get an A1 while it is available. The slow boot is nothing compare to loosing TrueHD and who knows DTS-MA down the road.

I like good audio, but existing DTS and AC3 processing on my receiver are already above the required bar for me. Try as I might, I have not been able to audibly tell the difference between movies in DTS or AC3, or for that matter between LPCM stereo and 384kbps DD stereo for concert DVDs. In fact, when I listen to the eagles hell freezes over, I always picked the DTS over the LPCM.

This TrueHD thing is kind of an alien concept to me meaning I don't find it useful. It was hard enough to setup the wiring behind the wall on my two movie rooms for 5.1 speakers, all the AV switching (except the HDMI and DVI connections ) are done by the receivers. Meaning, I'm not going to put another two speakers in there for this TrueHD thing (or whatever it needs) because the AC3 and DTS are performing more than adequately for me.

Of course, this is just my opinion and you probably have better ears than I do.
post #253 of 4928
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro J View Post

I'm still unclear on something pertaining to the comparison between A1 and A2....
If A2 is 1.2a HDMI, then what was A1? Is it 1.1 or 1.2? What would be the differences if any in PQ?

Pretty certain the PQ impact is zero. Perhaps an HDMI guru will chime in.

-- Trevor

PS. The PQ impact with 1.3 will also be zero, unless you eventually purchase a display device that supports it. I'm presuming the additional color depth 1.3 supports doesn't require a change to the titles themselves.
post #254 of 4928
Quote:
Originally Posted by trueimage View Post

Engadget has some photos and info.

http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/14/t...ion-to-the-us/

Weird that the XA2 still supports S-video and particularly composite video.

I haven't read the whole thread yet, but it seems to me that the biggest question is, do the new players have region coding?
post #255 of 4928
[quote=GoldenBoy]Here's an article from iTWire about the new Toshibas, I don't know if it adds much information, but here it is anyway :

"Both players will also include out-of-the-box support for the Dolby TruHD 5.1 audio format a feature that was also recently added to the first-generation players through a firmware update."QUOTE]

How can the A2 "support" Dolby TruHD without analog outputs?
post #256 of 4928
I'm surprised there is no word yet whether the HD-A1 and HD-A2 share the same video chipset.
post #257 of 4928
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fettastic View Post

Weird that the XA2 still supports S-video and particularly composite video.

I haven't read the whole thread yet, but it seems to me that the biggest question is, do the new players have region coding?

One may need a DVD player, intends to buy an HDTV later, but wishes to make the DVD player purchase one that will last a few years. With Composite and S-Video, player can be used for standard DVD playback and a SD TV or an EDTV can be used.

In addition, with these additional inputs, one can bring the player in another room, connect the RJ45 to a cable modem for LAN connection and update on line while using a small portable TV like a 13" or 15 " Sharp Aquos LCD.

As Region Free codes, that concerns the HD DVD, I believe, and not the player.
post #258 of 4928
I don't want you to mislead someone since most of your post was accurate, but I felt I needed to post this to comment on your opinion on DD+ and DDTHD.

Quote:


...until ddthd decoding was added to the g1 players, i had been using the s/pdif output and was loving it, even for dd+ audio...and to be honest, i'm not sure i hear the difference using the analogs and playing the full ddthd tracks as opposed to dd+

My testing proved otherwise. There was a night and day difference between the DD+ and TrueHD tracks (using Training Day to test). Midrange was drastically improved, highs were better, and bass was tightened. Dialog was the most obvious, but the surrounds are more clear and thus the soundtrack has more direction.

I have The Perfect Storm and Troy in my Netflix que and personally I can't wait to hear the TrueHD soundtracks on those movies!
post #259 of 4928
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrusnak View Post

How can the A2 "support" Dolby TruHD without analog outputs?

HDMI: multichannel PCM
SPDIF: multichannel PCM -> DTS
post #260 of 4928
[quote=jrusnak]
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBoy View Post

Here's an article from iTWire about the new Toshibas, I don't know if it adds much information, but here it is anyway :

"Both players will also include out-of-the-box support for the Dolby TruHD 5.1 audio format a feature that was also recently added to the first-generation players through a firmware update."QUOTE]

How can the A2 "support" Dolby TruHD without analog outputs?

Via HDMI, if the owner has an a/v with HDMI inputs/output. See page 59 of the HD-A1 User Manual... no change for HDMI.
post #261 of 4928
I have to admit I am very surprised by all of this.

So basically if I want to be able to listen to TrueHD I have to buy an A1 or wair until Dec/Jan to get an XA2?

The A2 is not fully a next gen player if it does not allow you to play TrueHD. For that reason the A2 is a serious leap back. Anyone who buys that unit is ill informed, and setting themself up or an almost garaunteed future upgrade.

I was waiting on te G2 players before I purchase, but now I guess ill get the A1. By the time the XA2 comes who needs Component out? recievers with 1.3 will be only a few months away at that point.

Is it me or is the smartest thing to do if you want to experience the full next gen inculding video and audio is to get the A1 and then wait until 1.3 is available in both DVD players and processsors?
post #262 of 4928
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Pancake View Post

CRT projectors that are capable of 1080p don't have internal de-interlacing capabilities. The XA2 may be of some benefit to those of us that have them.

I understand that and agree with you. However, the number of 1080p CRT projector owners is a very small percentage of users. The "1080p problem" has been made out to be some kind of major inferiority that affects everyone buying HD-DVD.
post #263 of 4928
[quote=mfabien]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrusnak View Post


Via HDMI, if the owner has an a/v with HDMI inputs/output. See page 59 of the HD-A1 User Manual... no change for HDMI.

(Smacking my head!) Right! Guess I need more coffee. And without a receiver with HDMI, everyone else is SOL.
post #264 of 4928
Quote:
Originally Posted by vancouver View Post

I have to admit I am very surprised by all of this.

So basically if I want to be able to listen to TrueHD I have to buy an A1 or wair until Dec/Jan to get an XA2?

The A2 is not fully a next gen player if it does not allow you to play TrueHD. For that reason the A2 is a serious leap back. Anyone who buys that unit is ill informed, and setting themself up or an almost garaunteed future upgrade.

I was waiting on te G2 players before I purchase, but now I guess ill get the A1. By the time the XA2 comes who needs Component out? recievers with 1.3 will be only a few months away at that point.

Is it me or is the smarted thing to do if you want to experience the full next gen inculding video and audio is to get the A1 and then wait until 1.3 is available in both DVD players and processsors?

The A2 will let you play TrueHD no problem, you just have to have a receiver that can get the signal via HDMI.
post #265 of 4928
Quote:
Originally Posted by FroDaddy View Post

I don't want you to mislead someone since most of your post was accurate, but I felt I needed to post this to comment on your opinion on DD+ and DDTHD.



My testing proved otherwise. There was a night and day difference between the DD+ and TrueHD tracks (using Training Day to test). Midrange was drastically improved, highs were better, and bass was tightened. Dialog was the most obvious, but the surrounds are more clear and thus the soundtrack has more direction.

I have The Perfect Storm and Troy in my Netflix que and personally I can't wait to hear the TrueHD soundtracks on those movies!

yes, i wanted to emphasize that *I* didn't necessarily hear a difference but i am limited to a/b comparisons on the fly of POTO...

i think my initial post was also inaccurate in that the difference i couldn't really hear was between dd+ and ddthd BOTH over the analogs but there was definitely a difference between dd+/ddthd over analog and dd+/ddthd->reencoded dts over s/pdif.

my sample was limited and i didn't mean to imply there is no difference and people should ignore it, my point was only that i didn't think the a2 lacking analog outs was a big deal...ymmv
post #266 of 4928
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

The A2 will let you play TrueHD no problem, you just have to have a receiver that can get the signal via HDMI.


Anyone heard of a reciever like this? I havent even heard of one being launched until the new year.

Also my mistake. i was under the impresion the HDMI 1.1 or 1.2 could not transwer both 1080i/p and 5.1 TrueHD,
post #267 of 4928
Quote:
Originally Posted by vancouver View Post

Anyone heard of a reciever like this? I havent even heard of one being launched until the new year.

Also my mistake. i was under the impresion the HDMI 1.1 or 1.2 could not transwer both 1080i/p and 5.1 TrueHD,

This is a common misconception about HDMI. People think you need HDMI 1.3 for the bandwidth to make this possible, which is not the case.
post #268 of 4928
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo1965 View Post

I like good audio, but existing DTS and AC3 processing on my receiver are already above the required bar for me. Try as I might, I have not been able to audibly tell the difference between movies in DTS or AC3, or for that matter between LPCM stereo and 384kbps DD stereo for concert DVDs. In fact, when I listen to the eagles hell freezes over, I always picked the DTS over the LPCM.

This TrueHD thing is kind of an alien concept to me meaning I don't find it useful. It was hard enough to setup the wiring behind the wall on my two movie rooms for 5.1 speakers, all the AV switching (except the HDMI and DVI connections ) are done by the receivers. Meaning, I'm not going to put another two speakers in there for this TrueHD thing (or whatever it needs) because the AC3 and DTS are performing more than adequately for me.

Of course, this is just my opinion and you probably have better ears than I do.

That's not a bad thing, though. While people who have better ears go out to buy HDMI receivers or pre-processors to decode the new formats, there are people who can't tell a difference and can spend their home theater money elsewhere.

I'm hoping that we can find out if 5.1 DTS-HD or even DTS-MA will eventually make it's way to the Toshibas; either G1 or G2 players.
post #269 of 4928
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

The A2 will let you play TrueHD no problem, you just have to have a receiver that can get the signal via HDMI.

Right. So (aside from the X1), unless they've bought a receiver in the past year or two, most consumers now have the choice of spending either $1000 for the XA2 or $1000 for a new receiver. Way to go, Toshiba!
post #270 of 4928
.....This is getting to be an expensive hobby.

Right now I have a 65" CRT w/DVI.

That means that I can't upgrade to 2.0 because I get black crush. That also means no TrueHD for me until maybe 2.1 or 2.2.

Having a CRT is great except convergence is always itching at the back of your brain. And it's only capable of 1080i.

For these reasons I've been considering upgrading to either a DLP or SXRD, 1080p of course. Although I believe I can probably sell my CRT for around $1500.00, that's still a heck of an investment. And of course, none of these TVs even have HDMI 1.3 yet.

So if I get the XA2 I'll have 1080p output, which I'm not sure has actually been proven to even be of benefit if you have a 1080p HDTV, and some other nice bells and whistles, but for a cool grand.

What's the deal with this DTS MA core only crap? How would that be better than regular DTS?

I think I just need to sit this one out for about a year. I'm happy with my set-up, I just need to suppress the compulsion to upgrade.
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